I know there’s a ton of posts about Eli. I haven’t seen any comments with this way of thinking. Anyone else think Gettleman is playing the media? Eli isn’t going anywhere. There’s no way that him and Shurmur are not on the same page. I also don’t buy that he needs to look at film before evaluating Eli. I think he’s just trying to get other GM’s that may want a QB to think we are drafting a QB so they will possibly trade up and select a player we never wanted in the first place. To me it’s so obvious. He pretty much said Eli played well once the OLine was settled. Talked about how we scored points, just didn’t defend. I’m pretty convinced we do not go QB this draft though.
DG has to keep his cards close to the vest for many reasons. He can’t just come out and say “ we are going in a new direction “. He basically said he doesn’t know the field of options yet so he can formulate a plan until he has met with the coaches and evaluators.
I think if he thinks Eli is better than the options prior to Free Agency then he will hold onto him. He will draft a QB if he thinks he is worth the pick.
DG has to keep his cards close to the vest for many reasons. He can’t just come out and say “ we are going in a new direction “. He basically said he doesn’t know the field of options yet so he can formulate a plan until he has met with the coaches and evaluators.
I think if he thinks Eli is better than the options prior to Free Agency then he will hold onto him. He will draft a QB if he thinks he is worth the pick.
Eli would do what’s best for the team. If Gettleman thought there was a player they could get with a little deception, Eli would follow. That’s my guess.
So I expect Eli to be back.
If they actually go the other direction, I’ll be shocked. And pleasantly surprised.
Agreed. DSG is incapable of playing a regular chess game, let alone a 3D chess game. He thinks this is 1968 football; he probably doesn't believe in chess. He's probably just playing checkers. That's why it is so hard to believe in our joke of a front office.
Sometwhat you see or what you hear is what you get.
I don’t think Eli, Shurmur or Eli know how this is going to play out. They have preferences, but lots of moving parts.
But some GM passed the 6th round will trade up.....If the Golden Child is there...
This mentoring thing is so overblown......I think a good QB coach is more valuable.....
Eli's guaranteed money comes into play BEFORE THE DRAFT, also....
DG’s job is to make this a winning franchise. That means a rebuild that will take time, which Eli is running out of. Eli may give them the best shot to win right now, but realistically, this team will not win anything significant right now.
Eli’s job, and legacy at some level, is contingent on winning right now. I think that’s what he approached Gettleman about. Can this franchise give Eli that opportunity?
I’m willing to bet that Gettleman told him that he wants him back, but on his terms. He can’t be willing to hemorrhage the future of the franchise for a long shot at creating a contender next year by trying quick fix FA signings, draft picks to compensate for a good, but no longer great QB who’s not in their long term plans, and keeping Eli’s contract as is. Gettleman has to think long term, Eli has to think immediate future.
Basically, Eli has to choose whether he thinks he can find immediate success another team, weather another year of probable mediocrity in a franchise that is planning for life after him, or retire. I think Eli, not DG, is the one who has to make the tough decision here.
Eli’s my favorite Giant I’ve ever gotten to watch play, and it infuriates me that the second half of his career was wasted through horrific front office decisions, but the time has come that the horrible front office decision would be to make Eli the focal point any longer. It’s not going to be a happy ending, but most endings rarely are. His brother is the exception, but even then, his career ended winning a Super Bowl, then kissing a pizza guy on national television who said the N word, so even that’s bitter sweet.
My goodness, he'd have to be a fucking idiot to tell everyone publicly his strategy for dealing with Manning. Duh.
As an aside, I am going to guess that his position with Manning will be: although Manning still has gas left in the tank, if he wants to still play for the NY Giants for another year, he's going to have to show he wants to win by helping with the cap situation and be willing to sacrifice financially (as far as I'm concerned, this is gravy time for Manning - he should be playing for free or go home... he doesn't need the money... and the team clearly can proceed without him in 2019... so if he wants to play in 2019 for the NYG he needs to take a radical pay cut to create cap space).
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And masking his intentions went out the window last year. He was an open book.
Agreed. DSG is incapable of playing a regular chess game, let alone a 3D chess game. He thinks this is 1968 football; he probably doesn't believe in chess. He's probably just playing checkers. That's why it is so hard to believe in our joke of a front office.
DSG... hmmm, what was your last handle?
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And masking his intentions went out the window last year. He was an open book.
Agreed. DSG is incapable of playing a regular chess game, let alone a 3D chess game. He thinks this is 1968 football; he probably doesn't believe in chess. He's probably just playing checkers. That's why it is so hard to believe in our joke of a front office.
You are a sad little man.
The field of options is not clear yet.
For the uninformed, this tool created the derogatory term DSG for some unknown fucking reason.
So as far as Eli is concerned, DG is waiting to see what his coaches and scouts have to say. If Shurmur wants Eli back, then he gets Eli to restructure to reduce the cap hit. If Shurmur is fine with moving on, then I think DG will do what he can to get Eli on another team. This way if he leaves, it was a mutual decision in the best interest of all.
DG’s job is to make this a winning franchise. That means a rebuild that will take time, which Eli is running out of. Eli may give them the best shot to win right now, but realistically, this team will not win anything significant right now.
Eli’s job, and legacy at some level, is contingent on winning right now. I think that’s what he approached Gettleman about. Can this franchise give Eli that opportunity?
I’m willing to bet that Gettleman told him that he wants him back, but on his terms. He can’t be willing to hemorrhage the future of the franchise for a long shot at creating a contender next year by trying quick fix FA signings, draft picks to compensate for a good, but no longer great QB who’s not in their long term plans, and keeping Eli’s contract as is. Gettleman has to think long term, Eli has to think immediate future.
Basically, Eli has to choose whether he thinks he can find immediate success another team, weather another year of probable mediocrity in a franchise that is planning for life after him, or retire. I think Eli, not DG, is the one who has to make the tough decision here.
Eli’s my favorite Giant I’ve ever gotten to watch play, and it infuriates me that the second half of his career was wasted through horrific front office decisions, but the time has come that the horrible front office decision would be to make Eli the focal point any longer. It’s not going to be a happy ending, but most endings rarely are. His brother is the exception, but even then, his career ended winning a Super Bowl, then kissing a pizza guy on national television who said the N word, so even that’s bitter sweet.
I think this makes a lot of sense, especially in the context of both DG's (presser) and Eli's (WFAN) comments yesterday about "completely open and honest conversation" (or whatever the exact words were).
Reasonable minds could interpret it differently...what I took away from it was that there's clearly a path to Eli being the QB next season, and it's probably the path that DG and NYG most prefer, but it requires a bit of concession on Eli's part.
Hey Lou. I would approach Eli as follows:
1. We are dedicated to 2019 being a "laying down of the foundation" for life after Manning. We want a commitment that you agree to be part of that process... be a mentor to your replacement about what it means to play QB in NYC and for the NYG on and off the field and what it means to have a personal commitment to the Giants organization "for life".
2. We are equally dedicated to building our team to be as competitive as we can so long as doing so squares with the long term interests of the team. In that regard, we expect the NYG to have a more competitive 2019 season than the 2018 season was. We would love to have you lead the Giants in a playoff run in 2019.
3. If you come back in 2019, it will not be because of the money. It will be because we are giving you an opportunity to announce your last year with the NY Giants before the season starts (because, btw, this will be your final year) and to allow you to have a "Goodbye Tour" for the Giants fans both here at home and in every city in the League. That is our offer to you so you can properly retire as a Giant.
Meanwhile, you re one of the richest human beings on earth today. You clearly do not need a penny more from the NY Giants and money is only a matter of pride, not necessity, for you at this point in life. In that regard, we expect you to work with me to adjust your salary so it is more cap friendly to enable us to improve the quality of the rest of the team.
In essence I want a commitment from you that you are not playing 2019 for reasons of money, but for your "last hoorah" - and that you agree to adjust your salary to anything we request and that the balance of your salary is donated to charity.
Those are my criteria. If you have strong objections to the monetary part, but you need to understand the monetary part is probably the one thing I will not budge on. If you, a multi-multi-millionaire feel that the reason you will play football is for money, then you need to go elsewhere. On the other hand, if you want to retire a NY Giant and have a chance to go out in class, then we are offering that to you.
My approach is based upon my belief, and based upon the assumption, that Manning's net worth is, at a minimum, several multiples of hundreds of millions of dollars... and that whatever compensation he is scheduled to earn playing football in 2019 would be a minuscule percentage of his overall net worth... that the compensation is more an ego thing than a financial need.
I don't think this was some kind of smoke screen.
At some point, Eli is injured, flops or retires.
If Eli retires or is released now, Shurmur has a job at least through 2020.
Eli might be worth keeping next year
but Eli making 22 million is NOT worth keeping next year.
Eli needs to take a serious pay cut for him to be starting QB of Giants next year
This way we could draft two quality guys at one and two who fill huge needs. I don’t believe qb is a huge need for us next year. Eli is good enough....not great, but good enough.
Again, I’m leaving out the cap issue....which could easily change things.
I can still play
The last 6 years have been a shit show
I need a better OL
The team needs a better defense
Are you committed to winning now?
Dave
We are rebuilding. We need to look at other options.
You are not part of the future. You are likely gone in 2020, 2021 at the latest.
We want you to be part of 2019
Your 2019 cap hit is too high and you will need to take a pay cut to stay. Otherwise keeping you hurts our future.
We may draft a successor - the better man will play as long as we are in contention.
We are committed to putting better players around you in 2019, but we are likely two years away.
Eli takes him to the low post:
Get me better protection and I will produce.
The OLs I have played behind before you came have sucked.
Even the "line" you put together sucked.
It got better but still needs work
BM was a joke as a coach/OC
Shurmer is better but it took him a while to figure things out.
I am not the problem.
Cut Manning. Go get a fill-in for a year or two for a couple of million and either draft a qb or hope to find the next Kerry Collins. Use the savings to buy a player or two.
B. The mid-level plan
Pay Manning his roster bonus so he is on the roster at the draft. Try and get a qb in the first round and make a trade for Manning. If not, Manning plays out his contract. If so, cut Manning post June 1 for some cap relief.
C. The Contract plan
Manning plays out his contract. A raft of qb's are brought in to see if there are any possibilities for the year after in the hopes of finding a Kerry Collins.
D. The cap relief plan
Extend Manning by paying his $17 mill up front and add a couple of years at a modest dollar amount. Cap relief comes in the form of averaging over the extended term. Use cap relief to sign some players.
Tanney and Lauletta are expendable in all of these scenarios.
It doesn't appear there is a franchise level QB in this year's draft (at least not an obvious one), so you are either waiting until 2020... still think Kyle could be the future... or you are going to get a FA QB that you think can be the answer medium/long term.
But I do not see us drafting a QB in Rd 1 this draft.
'Meanwhile, you re one of the richest human beings on earth today. You clearly do not need a penny more from the NY Giants and money is only a matter of pride, not necessity, for you at this point in life. In that regard, we expect you to work with me to adjust your salary so it is more cap friendly to enable us to improve the quality of the rest of the team. '
I'd love to see your reaction if your employer hit you with something like this. Who doesn't love the boss that tells you what salary you 'need'.
'Meanwhile, you re one of the richest human beings on earth today. You clearly do not need a penny more from the NY Giants and money is only a matter of pride, not necessity, for you at this point in life. In that regard, we expect you to work with me to adjust your salary so it is more cap friendly to enable us to improve the quality of the rest of the team. '
I'd love to see your reaction if your employer hit you with something like this. Who doesn't love the boss that tells you what salary you 'need'.
That's what I'm talking about lately.
People are living in reality when it comes to talking about the team. That's pure fantasy land.
I would guess that you believing that this is a solid form of negotiation is why you likely dont have a career in contracts.
"C'mon, you dont need all that money' gets you laughed out of the room.
yes that would get your laughed out of the room what Gettleman will say is
"Eli you are not WORTH the money anymore".
which is very different statement and will stop Eli's laughter
It is because the salary leverage is predominantly with the team. Players are only guaranteed their guaranteed money and salary in future year's is on paper only.
those protections aren't put in place for the Eli Mannings of the world, they are put in place fro the average player, but everyone is afforded those protections.
it is most definitely a laughable position to take
Cut Manning. Go get a fill-in for a year or two for a couple of million and either draft a qb or hope to find the next Kerry Collins. Use the savings to buy a player or two.
B. The mid-level plan
Pay Manning his roster bonus so he is on the roster at the draft. Try and get a qb in the first round and make a trade for Manning. If not, Manning plays out his contract. If so, cut Manning post June 1 for some cap relief.
C. The Contract plan
Manning plays out his contract. A raft of qb's are brought in to see if there are any possibilities for the year after in the hopes of finding a Kerry Collins.
D. The cap relief plan
Extend Manning by paying his $17 mill up front and add a couple of years at a modest dollar amount. Cap relief comes in the form of averaging over the extended term. Use cap relief to sign some players.
Tanney and Lauletta are expendable in all of these scenarios.
I would say A could go two ways for me. I could live with the way you described it, but would personally prefer to draft a guy - this year, or even try Lauletta - so that player could immediately get the critical experience the position requires.
I've become less and less interested in trying to set-up these clean transition plans. Get in there, get live reps, take the lumps, and learn from real mistakes.
(1) DG & the Giants do not need Eli Manning in 2019.
(2) DG might be interested in Eli Manning in 2019 only if:
(a) Manning reduced his compensation to an extent that it made a major impact on cap space
(b) Manning convinced DG he was chomping at the bit for one thing - a shot at a 3rd Lombardi.
(3) $23 million dollars means zero to Manning's net worth. Not only is it no life changing money to him ... it is literally not noticeable to his overall net worth... it is chump change.
(4) Blue Lou asked me how much money would I expect Manning to agree as a reduction to his compensation package. DG undoubtedly can answer that - I cannot because I don't know about cap space. But I do know #3 above is true - that haggling with Manning about money when Manning doesn't give one shit about the money - only tells me Manning isn't serious about any burning desire to take one last shot at the SB - because if he was, he would tell me (DG) that the Giants can have all the reduction they need to help on the cap.
As a professional negotiator, when you hold all the cards, you play them and there is zero reason to bluff. You simply lay out your cards and tell the other side it is "take it or leave it" - and you do that because you honestly don't give a rats ass if they don't take it.
Lastly, I am in no way, shape or form indicating I believe Gettleman and the Giants will approach negotiations that way. I am saying that is how I have handled my negotiations as a litigator when I was trying cases. When I had a losing hand, I paid fair value to settle. When I had a winning hand, I laid down my terms and took a "take it or leave it position" - but made clear that I would not negotiate one penny off my terms. And I never did.
It is because the salary leverage is predominantly with the team. Players are only guaranteed their guaranteed money and salary in future year's is on paper only.
those protections aren't put in place for the Eli Mannings of the world, they are put in place fro the average player, but everyone is afforded those protections.
it is most definitely a laughable position to take
Well, I know zero about the protections of the Union - they may very well make it impossible to negotiate on a take it or leave it basis. But I don't see why DG (who knows the cap savings he would want - unlike me) couldn't adopt a "take it or leave it" position with Manning on the money issue (whatever DG's bottom line is). My point being the money is relevant to Manning's agent, but it isn't relevant to Manning himself - at least not financially relevant to Manning.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
Well, there is a negotiation to be had if Manning wants to play football in 2019. Chances are it is with the Giants or nobody. And DG and the Giants hold 100% of those cards. The only question is how badly does Manning want to play?
That's ludicrous. It absolutely is chump change to a billionaire. Two percent of a billion dollars is 20 million dollars. Two percent is the amount of money my stock portfolio (with only 35% in the stock market) goes up and down most days. It's chump change.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
If Eli wants to retire as a Giant, having played for just one team, there is motivation to negotiate.
But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.
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to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.
But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.
That can't be true simply on the basis of his football contracts alone he's taken home more than $200m.
His rookie deal was 48m, He signed a 6 year deal in 2010 worth 97m and then a 4 year extension after 2015 worth 84m.
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In comment 14246045 section125 said:
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to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.
But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.
That can't be true simply on the basis of his football contracts alone he's taken home more than $200m.
His rookie deal was 48m, He signed a 6 year deal in 2010 worth 97m and then a 4 year extension after 2015 worth 84m.
um there is this thing called taxes that ate about half of that before he spent a penny.
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In comment 14246045 section125 said:
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to Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos. It is not chump change to Eli. $23 mill isn't even chump change to a billionaire.
But what is apparently true is that I'm wrong about Manning's net worth. I just googled it and the top two answers say ~100 million dollars. I figured he was much closer to a billion dollars, not just 1 hundred million. I'm also surprised with his endorsements on top of his salary and the fact the stock market basically quadrupled during his career. But, clearly if he is "only" worth one hundred million, then $23 million is very significant.
That can't be true simply on the basis of his football contracts alone he's taken home more than $200m.
His rookie deal was 48m, He signed a 6 year deal in 2010 worth 97m and then a 4 year extension after 2015 worth 84m.
Yea, that's why I assumed his net worth was in the multiples of hundreds of thousands of dollars... and I obviously can't vouch for the google responses... but the first two sites listed both had his net worth at $100,000 ...
But even if that's not exactly right, if his net worth is closer to 100 million than it is to 900 million, then $23 is going to still be significant... and my entire initial scenario was based upon my assumption that the $23 million was so insignificant to Manning's net worth that the finances weren't going to be a factor in Manning's decision making - and now I think I was wrong about that.
That's not to say the Giants still can't take a position that if he wants to play football, then he will have to bow to the Giants terms (whatever they may be) - on a take it or leave it basis - but it is still different than the non-factor I thought it was.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
There is room between 6M and 23M, and there is also the leverage of whether he wants to move or be away from his young family to pursue another job.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.
In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.
For the uninformed, this tool created the derogatory term DSG for some unknown fucking reason.
DSG? His middle name is Alan.
What does this dupe say the "S" is?
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hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.
In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.
GD - I thought our discussion on a structure was a reasonable compromise. Not sure you remember the details, but it entailed a waiving of the roster bonuses in exchange for guaranteed reduced salaries. Even with a reduction, I suggested that a floor for a cut was the equivalent of Josh McCown's yearly cash ($10M). So the savings comes by eliminating $5M of the RB and $1.5M in salary, but the trade-off is that they salary is guaranteed.
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In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.
In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.
GD - I thought our discussion on a structure was a reasonable compromise. Not sure you remember the details, but it entailed a waiving of the roster bonuses in exchange for guaranteed reduced salaries. Even with a reduction, I suggested that a floor for a cut was the equivalent of Josh McCown's yearly cash ($10M). So the savings comes by eliminating $5M of the RB and $1.5M in salary, but the trade-off is that they salary is guaranteed.
Agreed - I think that would be reasonable for all parties, and while $6.5MM of cap space isn't some enormous number, it should largely offset the 1st year cap hit of a decent FA OL, which makes it seem especially fair (if Eli is going to agree to take less money, it would be nice if the money was spent to help keep him upright in 2019 while also building the roster for beyond).
if the above is not true, then they should let Eli play out his contract ($$ notwithstanding) and deal with the QB situation in 2020.
It is silly, IMO, to cut Eli and sign some middling FA to hold the fort for a year when the resulting $$ will essentially be the same.
if the above is not true, then they should let Eli play out his contract ($$ notwithstanding) and deal with the QB situation in 2020.
It is silly, IMO, to cut Eli and sign some middling FA to hold the fort for a year when the resulting $$ will essentially be the same.
I agree with 110% Eve though I am not a Haskins fan. If they cut Eli.... I'd much prefer them go with a rookie or Lauletta then a Foles/bridgewater/etc.... or trade for a guy like Brisset or Carr.
if not, don't band aid it for 1 year with a scrub like McCown or Fitzpatrick.
if the above is not true, then they should let Eli play out his contract ($$ notwithstanding) and deal with the QB situation in 2020.
It is silly, IMO, to cut Eli and sign some middling FA to hold the fort for a year when the resulting $$ will essentially be the same.
what about a high draft pick and a middling FA (whose resulting $$ will absolutely not be the same)
For the uninformed, this tool created the derogatory term DSG for some unknown fucking reason.
Wait I'm not familiar with this troll/dupe. Please enlighten me.
Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.
Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.
Eli's dead cap is $6 mil
Fitz, McCown or Schaubb would cost about $5 mil.
A 1st round rookie will have a $4mil cap hit.
15 mil is still significantly less than 22 mil (Eli's cap hit on the roster).
11 mil is a lot less than $17 mil
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In comment 14247216 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 14246033 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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hold all the cards since Eli is under contract.
If Eli wanted a paycut, he'll keep the guaranteed money if he's released. There is very little motivation for him to reduce his salary.
There isn't really a negotiation to be had. There is a decision on whether or not to release him and suffer the cap consequences.
What guaranteed money? He's already gotten his signing bonus, obviously, but his remaining bonuses aren't guaranteed if he's released before he receives them. His motivation would be to earn something, especially if his agent senses that the FA market might not be particularly bullish for Eli.
In return for a pay cut, Eli could rightfully request that his 2019 compensation (however it might be structured) be fully guaranteed at the time of execution.
GD - I thought our discussion on a structure was a reasonable compromise. Not sure you remember the details, but it entailed a waiving of the roster bonuses in exchange for guaranteed reduced salaries. Even with a reduction, I suggested that a floor for a cut was the equivalent of Josh McCown's yearly cash ($10M). So the savings comes by eliminating $5M of the RB and $1.5M in salary, but the trade-off is that they salary is guaranteed.
Agreed - I think that would be reasonable for all parties, and while $6.5MM of cap space isn't some enormous number, it should largely offset the 1st year cap hit of a decent FA OL, which makes it seem especially fair (if Eli is going to agree to take less money, it would be nice if the money was spent to help keep him upright in 2019 while also building the roster for beyond).
I tried searching the archives, but with no results. People who are demanding a pay cut have to be reasonable. Some just want to demand a pound of flesh for the crappy seasons that fans have endured. But for those that demand Eli to play for $6M-$8M, well in BBI fashion, I'll state an opinion as certainty - It is not going to happen.
Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.
That's always been my preferred strategy - draft a QB and play him right away. Getting experience is just as critical as winning games.
Or, I'd trade for Jeff Driskel. See if we could pry him away from Cincinnati. Filled in very respectably for Dalton. Only 25, athletic, and with a very good arm. Run sub 4.6 at the Combine a few years ago. Has the attributes that may be appealing to Shurmur.
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If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.
Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.
Eli's dead cap is $6 mil
Fitz, McCown or Schaubb would cost about $5 mil.
A 1st round rookie will have a $4mil cap hit.
15 mil is still significantly less than 22 mil (Eli's cap hit on the roster).
11 mil is a lot less than $17 mil
McCown got $10M this season.
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In comment 14247484 LG in NYC said:
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If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.
Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.
Eli's dead cap is $6 mil
Fitz, McCown or Schaubb would cost about $5 mil.
A 1st round rookie will have a $4mil cap hit.
15 mil is still significantly less than 22 mil (Eli's cap hit on the roster).
11 mil is a lot less than $17 mil
McCown got $10M this season.
do you think his value went up? what about the other two?
I have ZERO interest in watching McCown or Fitz or guys like that play QB for the Giants. None. I don't care what the savings might be.
Give me a young FA (Foles, Brissett, etc) that Shurmur & Co believe could be the next franchise QB... or a high draft pick... or Lauletta. Or, let Eli play out his final year and we'll deal with this in 2020.
Quote:
If we draft a QB high I would rather him play right away then start some schlub for half the season.
Others have shown the math but when you add up Eli's dead $$ (once cut) plus the cost of even a middling QB, you aren't far off from what you're likely paying Eli.
That's always been my preferred strategy - draft a QB and play him right away. Getting experience is just as critical as winning games.
Or, I'd trade for Jeff Driskel. See if we could pry him away from Cincinnati. Filled in very respectably for Dalton. Only 25, athletic, and with a very good arm. Run sub 4.6 at the Combine a few years ago. Has the attributes that may be appealing to Shurmur.
Agree on the play fairly early and make mistakes strategy.
Try, fail, learn, try again, improve, fail less, improve more, etc