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Eagles actually scored more points

13ODB : 1/2/2019 8:20 pm
Gentleman said it blew his mind and he almost fell down when he heard we scored the most points in the division but the giants were the only team to score defensive touchdowns in the division with 3. So the eagles scored 367 the giants scored 369 but take away 21 of those points due to two alec Ogletree pick sixes and a Curtis Riley pick six but with that said the giants have more talent in offensively in the division and the only won 5 games that should blow his mind more
So, are you saying out of the 367 points  
Big Blue '56 : 1/2/2019 8:21 pm : link
that the Eagles scored, not one point came from the D or special teams?
So the Eagles had zero points scored by their defense  
JCin332 : 1/2/2019 8:22 pm : link
all season...?
Fiddy great minds...?  
JCin332 : 1/2/2019 8:23 pm : link
;)
RE: Fiddy great minds...?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/2/2019 8:23 pm : link
In comment 14245106 JCin332 said:
Quote:
;)


Indeed
great catch  
Joey from GlenCove : 1/2/2019 8:24 pm : link
if true
I'm glad..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 8:24 pm : link
to see constraint in starting mind-numbingly terrible posts isn't high on anyone's New Year's Resolutions list.
It is true  
pjcas18 : 1/2/2019 8:24 pm : link
I posted this on another thread.

the Giants had two defensive TD's, the Eagles had 0 defensive or special teams TD's.
Who cares either way?  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 8:34 pm : link
The embarrassing point is that we have a GM who thinks this is a noteworthy fact.
So bottom line they were the highest scoring team in the NFC East...  
JCin332 : 1/2/2019 8:35 pm : link
they don't subtract points scored by the defense or special teams...

Last I checked  
Sammo85 : 1/2/2019 8:36 pm : link
A defense scoring points on turnover still counted as “points” for that team.

RE: Who cares either way?  
JCin332 : 1/2/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14245143 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
The embarrassing point is that we have a GM who thinks this is a noteworthy fact.


You are rabidly becoming a dumbass of Les like proportions..

The fact is they were an improved team offensively in the 2nd half of the season and put up some big numbers against some very good playoff bound defenses...
RE: So, are you saying out of the 367 points  
13ODB : 1/2/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14245101 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
that the Eagles scored, not one point came from the D or special teams?

Yes they scored 0 points defensively and 0 from there special teams
I'm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/2/2019 8:38 pm : link
waiting for some fucking dumbass to rationalize that Rosas had more points than his peers so those shouldn't count either.
Meaningless Analysis  
Bruner4329 : 1/2/2019 8:39 pm : link
There is a lot more to this than defensive TDs scored. The Eagles forced 4 more turnovers plus although they did not score any defensive TDs do we know where the turnovers occurred and how far the offense had to go to score off the turnovers. You can't simplify things although people try.
RE: RE: Who cares either way?  
13ODB : 1/2/2019 8:41 pm : link
In comment 14245152 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 14245143 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


The embarrassing point is that we have a GM who thinks this is a noteworthy fact.



You are rabidly becoming a dumbass of Les like proportions..

The fact is they were an improved team offensively in the 2nd half of the season and put up some big numbers against some very good playoff bound defenses...



Tell me what was so improved in the second half besides Barkley and rosas and engram the last two games???? The 40 points against a redskin team that wanted no part of football week 14? Or the bear game where Beckham looked better throwing the football then Eli??
How could one of the harbingers...  
bw in dc : 1/2/2019 8:47 pm : link
of Analytics not know this without someone from his industry leading Analytics staff telling him?
This is lipstick on a pig  
twostepgiants : 1/2/2019 8:50 pm : link
The Giants were the 16th ranked offense this season on points scored

Whether or not the NFC East had 3 teams worse than that is irrelevant.

It’s almost  
Sammo85 : 1/2/2019 8:50 pm : link
like fans now are finding ways to take something that is static or benign and reshape it somehow to adhere to a narrative to diminish something or players and hate the team.
Gettleman searching for silver linings  
PhilSimms15 : 1/2/2019 9:24 pm : link
Is a bit unbecoming of what was an organization that expects Super Bowls.
Frankly, if he and Shurmur think Giant fans want to celebrate scoring the most points but coming in last in the division, they don’t understand this fan base.

And their crowing about the second half glosses over the fact the Giants beat teams with back up QB’s and horrible teams like SF and Tampa.

You are what your record says you are and the Giants were 5-11 and were basically out of the playoff hunt by game 7.
RE: Gettleman searching for silver linings  
santacruzom : 1/2/2019 10:16 pm : link
In comment 14245247 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Is a bit unbecoming of what was an organization that expects Super Bowls.
Frankly, if he and Shurmur think Giant fans want to celebrate scoring the most points but coming in last in the division, they don’t understand this fan base.



Not so fast! The achievement IS being celebrated by some in this fan base!
RE: Gettleman searching for silver linings  
BigBlueShock : 1/2/2019 10:29 pm : link
In comment 14245247 PhilSimms15 said:
Quote:
Is a bit unbecoming of what was an organization that expects Super Bowls.
Frankly, if he and Shurmur think Giant fans want to celebrate scoring the most points but coming in last in the division, they don’t understand this fan base.

And their crowing about the second half glosses over the fact the Giants beat teams with back up QB’s and horrible teams like SF and Tampa.

You are what your record says you are and the Giants were 5-11 and were basically out of the playoff hunt by game 7.

An organ that expects Super Bowls? You see, that is what is wrong with you guys. Expects Super Bowls? The sense of entitlement is mind boggling. Spoiled bunch of bitches. Expects Super Bowls? Is this serious?

It just goes to show that this fan base is lost in its own utopia world of “we are the Giants, we are owed this”! You clowns have no idea how lucky we are to have seen, for most of us, 4 Super Bowl Championships. It’s an incredible run that 90% of fan bases never get to experience. Please stop with the “we expect...” bullshit. You may think you’re holier than thou, but nobody else gives a shit what you “expect”. Spare me the superiority nonsense. You aren’t owed shit and it’s time Giants fans realize this
RE: This is lipstick on a pig  
Bill L : 1/2/2019 10:32 pm : link
In comment 14245184 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
The Giants were the 16th ranked offense this season on points scored

Whether or not the NFC East had 3 teams worse than that is irrelevant.

And where did our defense rank.
(Don’t forget that in your answer you must make it look as if it was the offense holding the defense back)
According to ESPN, the Eagles scored no TDs on defense  
GeofromNJ : 1/3/2019 12:51 am : link
not that it matters one way or the other
ESPN - Philadelphia Eagles Stats - ( New Window )
RE: RE: So, are you saying out of the 367 points  
Toth029 : 1/3/2019 2:35 am : link
In comment 14245155 13ODB said:
Quote:
In comment 14245101 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


that the Eagles scored, not one point came from the D or special teams?


Yes they scored 0 points defensively and 0 from there special teams


So you ignore the TD they scored on defense in the first Giants-Eagles game.
Corrected..  
Toth029 : 1/3/2019 2:36 am : link
They went out of bounds at the 16.

But that isn't taken into account either. i guess!
Why do people keep posting stats  
USAF NYG Fan : 1/3/2019 6:33 am : link
that ask us to take away something? If you take away Barkley's XX run, he only ran XX. If you take away Eli's XX, he only threw for xx. If you take away OBJ's xx, he only had x receiving yards. Quite simply, those things did happen so they do count.

I mean I know what you are trying to prove but you still don't get to just take something away to validate your point. That's not what happened.

Try working around a very similar stat from the other side of the ball. The Giants' defense allowed the most points this season in the NFC East and it wasn't even close;

Giants: 412 (Minus those 21 points if you must: 391)
Redskins: 359
Eagles: 348
Cowboys: 324

Therefore, combine the two and you see the Giants' scored the most points overall in the division but couldn't do enough to overcome allowing the most points to be scored against them in the division.

As far as I'm concerned the Giants' total points for the season are -43 (this stat already factors in those 21 points). The TEAM allowed more points than they scored. In this case, if you removed those 21 points scored by the defense the Giant's total points for the season are -64.
People looking for excuses  
section125 : 1/3/2019 6:46 am : link
to demean the GM and coach is getting old. It is irrational thinking. Yep, DG can just snap his fingers and change the poorly performing players, replace them with all pros. Wake the heck up. Team was so bad for so long and is expected to turn around on a dime?

You all know how bad the team has been. You all know last year the players revolted. You all know all but 15 players were replaced between last year and now. You all know there is a salary cap. You all know you only get 7 picks per draft(unless there are trades). But you all expect miraculously the quality of the roster is going to improve, immediately.

Yet because some of you wanted some other GM (who?) or coach(who?) you want to nitpick every decision at every instance. The "I want it my way and I want it now generations." Instant gratification. Some people think there is a magic, hidden formula that some outside agency can formulate to guide the Giants to success. Some said Mara is now Snyder, or worse.

Gets old. Don't mind rational disagreements, it is why we are here. But the fact remains, the Giants were the highest scoring team in the NFC East after a dismal 1-7 start and a shutout. Fact also remains, the defense gave up the most points. The FO (Jints Central) takes the season, sees where the worst areas are, tries to correct that and build a roster.

Fact - KC Chiefs highest scoring team in the NFL also gave up 9 more points than the Giants (421 vs 412). Just an observation.
I believe Gettleman  
clarkie02360 : 1/3/2019 6:52 am : link
was referring to the second half of the season, not the entire year.
I don't think people have to look hard for "excuses" to complain  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 7:07 am : link
about the head coach and GM. You have a head coach who's not a rookie and doesn't have a track record of success at his job and a GM who has made some bad swings in free agency.

It seems more like people are looking for ways to excuse their mistakes, including the people we're talking about based on their insistence on talking about how bad things were a year ago and suddenly talking 'patience' when the offseason they couldn't talk enough about 'winning'.

We can talk about how bad the defense was, that's fine, but in 8 losses the Giants scored 22 points or less. That's also a fact and it's not good enough.
Even this  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 8:24 am : link
is an odd comment:
Quote:
I don't think people have to look hard for "excuses" to complain
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:07 am : link : reply
about the head coach and GM. You have a head coach who's not a rookie and doesn't have a track record of success at his job and a GM who has made some bad swings in free agency.


So, it is fair to look at Shurmur's track record as being poor in the limited time he's been a HC, but Gettleman's other FA signings while not with the Giants aren't even accounted for?

It really isn't deniable that people have gone out of their way to look for faults with Gettleman and Shurmur, whether correct or incorrect.

Think about when we were 1-7 and there were numerous threads asking who the next HC and GM should be. The mere idea that's considered rational around here shows exactly the mindset of a lot of posters.
RE: I don't think people have to look hard for  
section125 : 1/3/2019 8:46 am : link
In comment 14245472 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
about the head coach and GM. You have a head coach who's not a rookie and doesn't have a track record of success at his job and a GM who has made some bad swings in free agency.

It seems more like people are looking for ways to excuse their mistakes, including the people we're talking about based on their insistence on talking about how bad things were a year ago and suddenly talking 'patience' when the offseason they couldn't talk enough about 'winning'.

We can talk about how bad the defense was, that's fine, but in 8 losses the Giants scored 22 points or less. That's also a fact and it's not good enough.


Shurmur was HC of the Browns, that will net you a losing record every time.
So it is ok to say Shurmur was bad at Cleveland but is not right to point out how absurdly bad the Giants were 6 out of the 7 previous seasons?
Talking about winning is bad? So FAs, fans, draftees want to here the new GM and HC come in and say the team will suck for a few years and that is the way to go? If you truly believed that that pile of steaming crap of a roster was going to magically transform to a winner in one offseason than the problem is with you. They had to put a positive spin on it. In doing so they got rid of the losers on the team.

I don't know if Shurmur is the right HC, but despite what some people say, it does matter that the players went out and busted their asses even when eliminated. It matters that Riley was benched when he decide not to tackle Jarwin.

People see what they want to see.

22 points in the 1st 8 games, the a big turnaround when Omameh and Flowers were let go; when Barkley was told to hit the hole faster and harder.

I'm not sold on anything, but after a full season, a full assessment can be made. Clearly the defense is a huge problem, much more so than the offense.

In the end, I could care less who was hired as GM or HC, this team was not becoming a playoff team in one year and may not make it in two seasons.
RE: People looking for excuses  
Photoguy : 1/3/2019 9:38 am : link
In comment 14245459 section125 said:
Quote:
to demean the GM and coach is getting old. It is irrational thinking. Yep, DG can just snap his fingers and change the poorly performing players, replace them with all pros. Wake the heck up. Team was so bad for so long and is expected to turn around on a dime?

You all know how bad the team has been. You all know last year the players revolted. You all know all but 15 players were replaced between last year and now. You all know there is a salary cap. You all know you only get 7 picks per draft(unless there are trades). But you all expect miraculously the quality of the roster is going to improve, immediately.

Yet because some of you wanted some other GM (who?) or coach(who?) you want to nitpick every decision at every instance. The "I want it my way and I want it now generations." Instant gratification. Some people think there is a magic, hidden formula that some outside agency can formulate to guide the Giants to success. Some said Mara is now Snyder, or worse.

Gets old. Don't mind rational disagreements, it is why we are here. But the fact remains, the Giants were the highest scoring team in the NFC East after a dismal 1-7 start and a shutout. Fact also remains, the defense gave up the most points. The FO (Jints Central) takes the season, sees where the worst areas are, tries to correct that and build a roster.

Fact - KC Chiefs highest scoring team in the NFL also gave up 9 more points than the Giants (421 vs 412). Just an observation.




Spot on.
Points scored is a pretty revelant stats  
joeinpa : 1/3/2019 10:04 am : link
Don t know why some found it annoying that Gettleman mentioned it.

Gettleman s point that the defense needs playmakers was spot on
Good catch  
5BowlsSoon : 1/3/2019 10:12 am : link
This does change things. We were not first in offensive scoring.
RE: Why do people keep posting stats  
Matt M. : 1/3/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14245453 USAF NYG Fan said:
Quote:
that ask us to take away something? If you take away Barkley's XX run, he only ran XX. If you take away Eli's XX, he only threw for xx. If you take away OBJ's xx, he only had x receiving yards. Quite simply, those things did happen so they do count.

I mean I know what you are trying to prove but you still don't get to just take something away to validate your point. That's not what happened.

Try working around a very similar stat from the other side of the ball. The Giants' defense allowed the most points this season in the NFC East and it wasn't even close;

Giants: 412 (Minus those 21 points if you must: 391)
Redskins: 359
Eagles: 348
Cowboys: 324

Therefore, combine the two and you see the Giants' scored the most points overall in the division but couldn't do enough to overcome allowing the most points to be scored against them in the division.

As far as I'm concerned the Giants' total points for the season are -43 (this stat already factors in those 21 points). The TEAM allowed more points than they scored. In this case, if you removed those 21 points scored by the defense the Giant's total points for the season are -64.
But, if you take away all of Eli's completions, he has no TDs and a 0 completion percentage. That's bad.
LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/3/2019 2:45 pm : link
Quote:
Good catch
5BowlsSoon : 10:12 am : link : reply
This does change things. We were not first in offensive scoring


on the flip side, we were first in defensive scoring!!

It is really easy to play this game! A lot harder to sound intelligent.
RE: Even this  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/3/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14245522 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is an odd comment:


Quote:


I don't think people have to look hard for "excuses" to complain
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:07 am : link : reply
about the head coach and GM. You have a head coach who's not a rookie and doesn't have a track record of success at his job and a GM who has made some bad swings in free agency.



So, it is fair to look at Shurmur's track record as being poor in the limited time he's been a HC, but Gettleman's other FA signings while not with the Giants aren't even accounted for?

It really isn't deniable that people have gone out of their way to look for faults with Gettleman and Shurmur, whether correct or incorrect.

Think about when we were 1-7 and there were numerous threads asking who the next HC and GM should be. The mere idea that's considered rational around here shows exactly the mindset of a lot of posters.


Fan frustration is fan frustration. That's five years of losing piled up. We can look at Gettleman's free agent signings when not with the Giants as well. He had some overpays in Carolina too. He had some big misjudgements of players too.

And I'm not in the business of saying a GM should be fired for overpays. It happens. But when it happens, I'm not sure that we have to say things like 'he had to overpay' to get someone in the door just to make it seem like less of a mistake. Call it what it is. There's just no reason in my view to feel much more comfortable about where the team is going one year after handing it off to a new GM. If anything the grade on this management is very incomplete with some good and plenty bad.

And their recent comments seem to indicate that they want people to understand just how bad the franchise was a year before they got there, which is an exercise in Cover Your Ass that just smells sour to me.
RE: People looking for excuses  
GiantGrit : 1/3/2019 3:40 pm : link
In comment 14245459 section125 said:
Quote:
to demean the GM and coach is getting old. It is irrational thinking. Yep, DG can just snap his fingers and change the poorly performing players, replace them with all pros. Wake the heck up. Team was so bad for so long and is expected to turn around on a dime?

You all know how bad the team has been. You all know last year the players revolted. You all know all but 15 players were replaced between last year and now. You all know there is a salary cap. You all know you only get 7 picks per draft(unless there are trades). But you all expect miraculously the quality of the roster is going to improve, immediately.

Yet because some of you wanted some other GM (who?) or coach(who?) you want to nitpick every decision at every instance. The "I want it my way and I want it now generations." Instant gratification. Some people think there is a magic, hidden formula that some outside agency can formulate to guide the Giants to success. Some said Mara is now Snyder, or worse.

Gets old. Don't mind rational disagreements, it is why we are here. But the fact remains, the Giants were the highest scoring team in the NFC East after a dismal 1-7 start and a shutout. Fact also remains, the defense gave up the most points. The FO (Jints Central) takes the season, sees where the worst areas are, tries to correct that and build a roster.

Fact - KC Chiefs highest scoring team in the NFL also gave up 9 more points than the Giants (421 vs 412). Just an observation.


I agree with everything you said, but i would caution to assume the age of some around here. I would also point out that older people love to talk shit about millenials and generation Z, but who raised those generations into the adults they've become? Not that there isn't an issue of entitlement in this country right now because BOY it is bad, but as always, plenty of blame to go around.
RE: I don't think people have to look hard for  
GiantGrit : 1/3/2019 3:56 pm : link
In comment 14245472 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
about the head coach and GM. You have a head coach who's not a rookie and doesn't have a track record of success at his job and a GM who has made some bad swings in free agency.

It seems more like people are looking for ways to excuse their mistakes, including the people we're talking about based on their insistence on talking about how bad things were a year ago and suddenly talking 'patience' when the offseason they couldn't talk enough about 'winning'.

We can talk about how bad the defense was, that's fine, but in 8 losses the Giants scored 22 points or less. That's also a fact and it's not good enough.


The bad swings in free agency, are they going to hold this team back for 5 years? Where all of these "bad swings" i keep seeing mentioned? Which one of those deals is going to hurt the team long term?

This is all perspective, i get that. Many of you here will not be happy until the 13-3 season occurs, i get that. If you're mad the GM fooled you into thinking this team was a contender, whose really the fool? His actions were much louder than his press conferences. Seems like he realized early on (before the regular season even started) this team would not compete.

We traded a 29 year old, prime NT to -

get a draft pick
allow our other young DT's to start playing more in their natural positions
shed his cap

And yet, you have people here complaining about the trade. No shit that trade hurts us right now it is a move for the future.



Bottom line - second half of the year gave us some optimism for the offense. Roster has some solid young talent to build around. Culture and locker room issues are gone. No one is saying everything is ok, but after last year things seem to be trending up.

Everyone here can see we've sucked for a while. I myself have gone on record stating Shurmur and Gettleman will do well here but i admit we really do not know right now.

To the incessant whiners on every thread, if its that fucking hard for you to root for this team, pick another.

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