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Carson Palmer on Eli

joeinpa : 1/4/2019 7:20 am
Heard him the FAN this morning: He thinks Eli will retire. Said to Boomer you know how it is when things just don’t work right anymore. Listed the following

* Eli has trouble getting off his back foot
* ball just doesn’t come out the same
* accuracy is compromised

I Don t agree Eli will retire, the other stuff, beyond my pay grade to evaluate, but Eli s been a big topic, so I shared.

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Let me save time as to where this thread will go...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/4/2019 7:28 am : link
Eli supporters - "Carson Palmer's opinion is worthless. Build a team around Eli and he can win."

Eli blamers - "See...Carson Palmer notices the same declining QB we do"

Everybody else - "Boomer hates the Giants"
Color me dumb  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/4/2019 7:30 am : link
But what does “can’t get off his back foot mean”?
"Accuracy is compromised"  
DanBenton : 1/4/2019 7:33 am : link
Eli had the best completion percentage of his entire career despite 19 dropped passes by his receivers this season (11th-most in the NFL).
RE: Let me save time as to where this thread will go...  
Jints in Carolina : 1/4/2019 7:35 am : link
In comment 14246828 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Eli supporters - "Carson Palmer's opinion is worthless. Build a team around Eli and he can win."

Eli blamers - "See...Carson Palmer notices the same declining QB we do"

Everybody else - "Boomer hates the Giants"


/thread
RE: Let me save time as to where this thread will go...  
micky : 1/4/2019 7:37 am : link
In comment 14246828 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Eli supporters - "Carson Palmer's opinion is worthless. Build a team around Eli and he can win."

Eli blamers - "See...Carson Palmer notices the same declining QB we do"

Everybody else - "Boomer hates the Giants"


Dep in...1....2....3.....and go
haha  
Joey from GlenCove : 1/4/2019 7:39 am : link
but i have a hard time believing he watches every snap like many of us.
Boomer does hate the Giants  
cjac : 1/4/2019 7:44 am : link
but the most annoying thing about Boomer now is his love of the Colts. now that his college roomate is the head coach he is an expert....
Well,  
Photoguy : 1/4/2019 7:44 am : link
like everyone else, he's entitled to his opinion. Being a player and a qb, I suppose he would know more than I do, but does he have privy to the game films like the coaching staff does?
Who cares if Boomer hates the Giants  
UConn4523 : 1/4/2019 7:48 am : link
and why wouldnt Carson Palmer have a better idea of what Eli might be thinking than anyone here?

What he says makes complete sense. Doesn’t mean it’s true, but it absolutely makes sense.
RE:  
section125 : 1/4/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14246832 DanBenton said:
Quote:
Eli had the best completion percentage of his entire career despite 19 dropped passes by his receivers this season (11th-most in the NFL).


When you have 91 completions to Barkley on 5/10 yard throws your completion percentage will go up.

I think he was talking longer passes. I thought he looked about the same up to mid-range, but his deep passes were not as good.
RE: Well,  
jcn56 : 1/4/2019 7:51 am : link
In comment 14246842 Photoguy said:
Quote:
like everyone else, he's entitled to his opinion. Being a player and a qb, I suppose he would know more than I do, but does he have privy to the game films like the coaching staff does?


Anyone with a credit card can get access to the all-22 film.
Was hesitant to share these comments because  
joeinpa : 1/4/2019 7:54 am : link
Of the irrational dialogue this topic elicits,

I have no agenda other than to relay the info, from another NFL quarterback.

Having trouble getting off his back foot is referring to the weight transfer. We always hear about foot work with quarterbacks, this is related to that

RE: Was hesitant to share these comments because  
section125 : 1/4/2019 7:56 am : link
In comment 14246849 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Of the irrational dialogue this topic elicits,

I have no agenda other than to relay the info, from another NFL quarterback.

Having trouble getting off his back foot is referring to the weight transfer. We always hear about foot work with quarterbacks, this is related to that


There is nothing wrong with posting this. At least it has some meat.
RE: Who cares if Boomer hates the Giants  
Jints in Carolina : 1/4/2019 7:57 am : link
In comment 14246843 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and why wouldnt Carson Palmer have a better idea of what Eli might be thinking than anyone here?

What he says makes complete sense. Doesn’t mean it’s true, but it absolutely makes sense.


He was an NFL QB....what the hell does he know? I can evaluate much better from my couch with chips and beer.
You guys watch Blue Bloods ?  
Spider56 : 1/4/2019 8:01 am : link
There’s an old episode where Esaison makes a cameo in support of fundraising for the NYPD. H leaves and Tom Selleck says to his aide .... “ you just missed Boomer” the DCPI replies .... “that’s ok, I’m more of a Phil Simms guy” .... classic NY TV line ...
RE: Let me save time as to where this thread will go...  
ajr2456 : 1/4/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14246828 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Eli supporters - "Carson Palmer's opinion is worthless. Build a team around Eli and he can win."

Eli blamers - "See...Carson Palmer notices the same declining QB we do"

Everybody else - "Boomer hates the Giants"


At least nobody can deny #3
Carson Palmer...  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 8:04 am : link
certainly has more than enough credibility on throwing. My God he could throw a football, especially under duress. Has a very good understanding of throwing mechanics. Same with his QB guru brother Jordan.

And had a very sneaky good career.



How surprising would it be  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/4/2019 8:06 am : link
For him to leave $23m on the table?
RE: Let me save time as to where this thread will go...  
Britt in VA : 1/4/2019 8:07 am : link
In comment 14246828 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Eli supporters - "Carson Palmer's opinion is worthless. Build a team around Eli and he can win."

Eli blamers - "See...Carson Palmer notices the same declining QB we do"

Everybody else - "Boomer hates the Giants"


Ironically the first post in the thread ensures it.
Not sure what the big deal is.  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 8:10 am : link
Shurmur and DG are well aware of whatever flaws Eli has or has had
I'll  
crick n NC : 1/4/2019 8:12 am : link
Wait until Mike Cherry chimes in to form a concrete opinion
RE: RE:  
ajr2456 : 1/4/2019 8:15 am : link
In comment 14246845 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14246832 DanBenton said:


Quote:


Eli had the best completion percentage of his entire career despite 19 dropped passes by his receivers this season (11th-most in the NFL).



When you have 91 completions to Barkley on 5/10 yard throws your completion percentage will go up.

I think he was talking longer passes. I thought he looked about the same up to mid-range, but his deep passes were not as good.


Being 27th in Average Air Yards Completed and 32nd in Average Intended Air Yards supports the first part.

The second part was evident on film. There were times he was able to push the ball down field, because QBs don’t completely lose their arms but their were more passes that weren’t good.
RE: Color me dumb  
tmanic21 : 1/4/2019 8:16 am : link
In comment 14246830 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
But what does “can’t get off his back foot mean”?


Believe he's mentioning both poor lower body mechanics at the top of his drop coupled with some play speed issues that make him struggle with his 1st read. People like to say he lingers too long, but its really a mixed bag of too fast at times and too slow at times. So when his back foot, or right foot hits after a 3 or 5 step drop... he often can lose rhythm, etc. Part of this, IMO, is why Shurmur has embraced the nakeds/bootlegs so much to attempt to set his rhythm if you will. If you noticed too in recent games those bootlegs, his first read was to the flat and very very fast(by design), to take the mystery out of it so that he could eliminate/isolate in a quicker fashion
RE: Carson Palmer...  
ajr2456 : 1/4/2019 8:16 am : link
In comment 14246862 bw in dc said:
Quote:
certainly has more than enough credibility on throwing. My God he could throw a football, especially under duress. Has a very good understanding of throwing mechanics. Same with his QB guru brother Jordan.

And had a very sneaky good career.




Could have been even better if it wasn’t for that dirty play against Pittsburgh. He was never the same type of player.
RE:  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/4/2019 8:18 am : link
In comment 14246832 DanBenton said:
Quote:
Eli had the best completion percentage of his entire career despite 19 dropped passes by his receivers this season (11th-most in the NFL).


Fine stat, but let's filter this by distance of attempt, because it's padded by a lot of safe, short passes and checkdowns.
Best thing for the team and the fans  
Dankbeerman : 1/4/2019 8:18 am : link
Is for Eli to stay classy and walk away. If its falls on him ro make the decision it doesnt mattet what the team or the fans want.

I feel like after last year and the Giants not replacing him this past offseason they did him a solid but they had to have done that with some knowledge that it was his last horah.

If he steps away and just rips the bandaid off this everyone will talk about something else.
RE: RE: Color me dumb  
crick n NC : 1/4/2019 8:20 am : link
In comment 14246877 tmanic21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14246830 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


But what does “can’t get off his back foot mean”?



Believe he's mentioning both poor lower body mechanics at the top of his drop coupled with some play speed issues that make him struggle with his 1st read. People like to say he lingers too long, but its really a mixed bag of too fast at times and too slow at times. So when his back foot, or right foot hits after a 3 or 5 step drop... he often can lose rhythm, etc. Part of this, IMO, is why Shurmur has embraced the nakeds/bootlegs so much to attempt to set his rhythm if you will. If you noticed too in recent games those bootlegs, his first read was to the flat and very very fast(by design), to take the mystery out of it so that he could eliminate/isolate in a quicker fashion


Good question McNally, thanks for the answer t
RE: RE: Carson Palmer...  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14246879 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14246862 bw in dc said:


Quote:


certainly has more than enough credibility on throwing. My God he could throw a football, especially under duress. Has a very good understanding of throwing mechanics. Same with his QB guru brother Jordan.

And had a very sneaky good career.






Could have been even better if it wasn’t for that dirty play against Pittsburgh. He was never the same type of player.


That was Roethlisberger’s first SB run.

Low cheap shot by Oelhoffen. That’s back when the Steelers prided themselves on their cheap shots. They had some real scum on the D for a while...
RE: Let me save time as to where this thread will go...  
Beer Man : 1/4/2019 8:27 am : link
In comment 14246828 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Eli supporters - "Carson Palmer's opinion is worthless. Build a team around Eli and he can win."

Eli blamers - "See...Carson Palmer notices the same declining QB we do"

Everybody else - "Boomer hates the Giants"
LOL
RE: RE: RE: Carson Palmer...  
Jints in Carolina : 1/4/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14246893 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14246879 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14246862 bw in dc said:


Quote:


certainly has more than enough credibility on throwing. My God he could throw a football, especially under duress. Has a very good understanding of throwing mechanics. Same with his QB guru brother Jordan.

And had a very sneaky good career.






Could have been even better if it wasn’t for that dirty play against Pittsburgh. He was never the same type of player.



That was Roethlisberger’s first SB run.

Low cheap shot by Oelhoffen. That’s back when the Steelers prided themselves on their cheap shots. They had some real scum on the D for a while...


Don't forget Hines Ward...I fucking hate the Steelers.
RE:  
jvm52106 : 1/4/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14246832 DanBenton said:
Quote:
Eli had the best completion percentage of his entire career despite 19 dropped passes by his receivers this season (11th-most in the NFL).


UMMM, he was still 17th in completion %. Completion % was up across the board. It is a meaningless stat to use right now to prove someone still has it. QB's ahead of Eli- Stafford, Trubisky, Fitpatrick, Newton, Prescott.. That 66% means nothing to me.
It's NOT 23M on the table....  
Doomster : 1/4/2019 8:30 am : link
It's 17M!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
RE: Well,  
Dodge : 1/4/2019 8:38 am : link
In comment 14246842 Photoguy said:
Quote:
like everyone else, he's entitled to his opinion. Being a player and a qb, I suppose he would know more than I do, but does he have privy to the game films like the coaching staff does?


Anyone can get all-22 tape if they wanted it.
RE: RE: Color me dumb  
Dodge : 1/4/2019 8:41 am : link
In comment 14246877 tmanic21 said:
Quote:
In comment 14246830 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


But what does “can’t get off his back foot mean”?



Believe he's mentioning both poor lower body mechanics at the top of his drop coupled with some play speed issues that make him struggle with his 1st read. People like to say he lingers too long, but its really a mixed bag of too fast at times and too slow at times. So when his back foot, or right foot hits after a 3 or 5 step drop... he often can lose rhythm, etc. Part of this, IMO, is why Shurmur has embraced the nakeds/bootlegs so much to attempt to set his rhythm if you will. If you noticed too in recent games those bootlegs, his first read was to the flat and very very fast(by design), to take the mystery out of it so that he could eliminate/isolate in a quicker fashion


I can't wait to listen to your podcast today.
Eli has  
Pete in MD : 1/4/2019 8:48 am : link
always had issues with mechanics and accuracy. He was criticized for throwing off of his back foot 15 years ago. IMO, the difference is when he became game manager Eli, which takes away from his strengths. I'm not sure if it is coaching, frustration with bad blocking, or lack of the same competitive fire (probably some combination) but you don't see him taking risks or extending plays like he used to. He's also missing his go-to guy. I think Beckham is always looking for the big play. Plax knew what to do to move the chains and Eli needs that type of target.
73 more days of this  
rasbutant : 1/4/2019 8:51 am : link
until his bonus money kicks in, then we should have our answer.
....  
Toth029 : 1/4/2019 8:54 am : link
Giants were one of the most accurate teams that passed on throws 20+ yards. Either by design or throw, they were doing something right. Up to 44%.

Jets had a 17% accuracy by comparison.
Fuck Carson Palmer  
GeorgeAdams33 : 1/4/2019 8:55 am : link
and fuck Boomer too while you're at it
Palmer is talking about himself  
shyster : 1/4/2019 9:03 am : link
not Eli.

If Eli were of a mind to retire based on his assessment of his own abilities, what would he be arguing with Gettleman about the day after the season ends?
RE: RE: RE: Carson Palmer...  
Jay on the Island : 1/4/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14246893 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14246879 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 14246862 bw in dc said:


Quote:


certainly has more than enough credibility on throwing. My God he could throw a football, especially under duress. Has a very good understanding of throwing mechanics. Same with his QB guru brother Jordan.

And had a very sneaky good career.






Could have been even better if it wasn’t for that dirty play against Pittsburgh. He was never the same type of player.



That was Roethlisberger’s first SB run.

Low cheap shot by Oelhoffen. That’s back when the Steelers prided themselves on their cheap shots. They had some real scum on the D for a while...

Yes it was. The head butt by Von Oehlhoffen to the knee of Palmer occurred after Palmer had just thrown his 2nd long td of the game to give Cincy a 14-0 lead that was gearing up to be a blowout for Cincy. Kitna came in and the offense stalled and Pittsburgh was able to come back and win by 3 IIRC. Palmer was sensational that season and he was on his way to being a top 3 QB in the league. He was never the same after that knee injury. Von Oelhoffen to this day claims it was an accident but from the replay you can clearly see that it was no accident. Dirty piece of shit.
RE:  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/4/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14246832 DanBenton said:
Quote:
Eli had the best completion percentage of his entire career despite 19 dropped passes by his receivers this season (11th-most in the NFL).


Saying he had the best completion percentage of career is not saying much when completion percentages across the board have risen dramatically.

Case in point...in 2011 (last Giants Super Bowl), Eli completed 61% of his passes, ranking him 14th (not bad). If you translated that same percentage to 2018 season statistics, that same 61% would rank you between 29th (Flacco) and 30th (Bortles).

You are saying he had the best completion percentage of his career. Great! That number ranks him 17th of all qualifying QB's. So what are we talking about here?

Is he improving statistically? Yes. But not at the same rate as NFL QB's across the board.
....  
Toth029 : 1/4/2019 9:38 am : link
Again. This wasn't a basic dink and dunk offense compared to other offenses. The percentage downfield speaks otherwise.

People in here drastically underrate how much similar offenses are around the league, like Brady or Goff don't throw a lot of screens or checkdowns.
A lot of smoke about retirement  
Les in TO : 1/4/2019 9:40 am : link
Archie, Eli’s answers and no show at the media day, Herzlich and Palmer

I think Eli’s torn though - financial, personal legacy and team improvement reasons why he’d want to return vs diminished play,two consecutive brutal team seasons and leaving the game without major brain or body damage to spend time with his growing fam.

RE: Color me dumb  
Section331 : 1/4/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14246830 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
But what does “can’t get off his back foot mean”?


He’s not driving the ball like he used to. Like @ pitcher, a QB gets velocity on the ball by driving his back leg. As players get older, tendons (like the Achilles) get stiffer, and less flexibility means less drive oof the back leg.
Tough Decision  
Rong5611 : 1/4/2019 10:05 am : link
Eli was never a great QB with regard to fundamentals. He made two unbelievable SB runs where he more than rose to the occasion to lead his team. He performed at a high level at the right times.

If he comes back, it is for a care-taker role only. It is unlikely that they make the playoffs next year with or without him. DG probably told him that they need to extend his contract to create cap space for him to stay.

He has alot to think about.

-- Is the reduced money he's likely been offered worth it?
-- Will he get more from another team that's closer to the post-season?
-- Does he want to play on what will likely be another losing team?
-- Is the above wrong? Does he think he has another playoff run in him? Will the team be good enough?
-- Does he want to risk his health?
-- Is it time to retire and raise his family?

You lost..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/4/2019 10:11 am : link
me on this:

Quote:
Case in point...in 2011 (last Giants Super Bowl), Eli completed 61% of his passes, ranking him 14th (not bad). If you translated that same percentage to 2018 season statistics, that same 61% would rank you between 29th (Flacco) and 30th (Bortles).

You are saying he had the best completion percentage of his career. Great! That number ranks him 17th of all qualifying QB's. So what are we talking about here?


So being ranked 14th isn't bad, but you bolded 17th and act like it is much worst that 14th?

Basically, Eli's percentage has kept up with the overall rise.
Eli's interviews  
ryanmkeane : 1/4/2019 10:35 am : link
lately and the way he is talking make it seem like Gettleman pretty much told him they are ready to move on, so Eli now is contemplating his options for a) retirement or b) play for another team if he won't take a significant paycut, if another team would take him as a starter. He's not playing for the Redskins...so looking around the league it's basically Jaguars or..maybe Broncos? But he's not significantly better than Keenum right now.

I think Palmer is on to something...it just feels like Eli might be finally done in blue.
RE: Eli's interviews  
rocco8112 : 1/4/2019 11:05 am : link
In comment 14247083 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
lately and the way he is talking make it seem like Gettleman pretty much told him they are ready to move on, so Eli now is contemplating his options for a) retirement or b) play for another team if he won't take a significant paycut, if another team would take him as a starter. He's not playing for the Redskins...so looking around the league it's basically Jaguars or..maybe Broncos? But he's not significantly better than Keenum right now.

I think Palmer is on to something...it just feels like Eli might be finally done in blue.


Agreed

What is there for the Giants to decide? They talked and told him that's all she wrote and he is contemplating what to do.

Everyone wanted the Giants to lose week 17 for the pick, but Eli could have led a game winner against the Cowboys to bookend the Game winner in 2004 week 17. Would have been cool, but was not meant to be. His last pass, perhaps ever, was a strike to Latimer that was contested and he could come up with.

But I think you have it right, the Eli era is done.
I just got really depressed  
bceagle05 : 1/4/2019 11:13 am : link
thinking about an Eli Manning retirement presser, and I'm someone who's wanted to move on for a couple of years now. Love the guy.
RE: Tough Decision  
Ssanders9816 : 1/4/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14247048 Rong5611 said:
Quote:
Eli was never a great QB with regard to fundamentals. He made two unbelievable SB runs where he more than rose to the occasion to lead his team. He performed at a high level at the right times.

If he comes back, it is for a care-taker role only. It is unlikely that they make the playoffs next year with or without him. DG probably told him that they need to extend his contract to create cap space for him to stay.

He has alot to think about.

-- Is the reduced money he's likely been offered worth it?
-- Will he get more from another team that's closer to the post-season?
-- Does he want to play on what will likely be another losing team?
-- Is the above wrong? Does he think he has another playoff run in him? Will the team be good enough?
-- Does he want to risk his health?
-- Is it time to retire and raise his family?


This is a great way to sum it up. There are so many factors that are going into the decision as to who the Giants QB is next year. Both from the Giants standpoint and Eli’s.

Does he take a pay cut? Most likely not, but is anyone paying him that salary? Most likely not. So how bad does he want to play?

Do th Giants target one of the awful free agent options?

Do they like Haskins or do they have their eyes on one of the gems in 2030? In which case Eli makes the most sense next year. But again, at what price that compromises you getting free agents you need to compete? That also help Eli.

“Hey Eli, we want you next year, but we really need some cap space to fix that OL!”

We could go over 100 different scenarios.
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