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Carson Palmer on Eli

joeinpa : 1/4/2019 7:20 am
Heard him the FAN this morning: He thinks Eli will retire. Said to Boomer you know how it is when things just don’t work right anymore. Listed the following

* Eli has trouble getting off his back foot
* ball just doesn’t come out the same
* accuracy is compromised

I Don t agree Eli will retire, the other stuff, beyond my pay grade to evaluate, but Eli s been a big topic, so I shared.

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RE: RE: Of course it was a win-now strategy based on  
lax counsel : 1/4/2019 3:59 pm : link
In comment 14247585 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 14247552 Jimmy Googs said:


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several of the moves the GM made. Hell, he even said it was in plain spoken words.

Debating it wasn’t and hiding behind the rational that we were just improving is disengenuous.




Gettleman just said recently that the Stewart and Omameh signings were to help change the culture in the lockerroom. Kareem Martin and Nate Solder are also high character well respected men. It seems that many had forgotten about last year's mutiny in the locker room. That couldn't happen again and it appears these signings had more to do with character than trying to win now.


Of course DG would say that now, the signings of Stewart and Omameh were utter disasters. If Omameh wasn't here to play and was a culture guy, why was he cut? They were more to do with character?
Meaning those guys were signed for various reasons  
Jimmy Googs : 1/4/2019 4:01 pm : link
Character being one but not primary, otherwise the cost of character runs so high on the NY Giants that we are going only win NFL Man of the Year Awards using that strategy...and nothing else.
RE: RE: Of course it was a win-now strategy based on  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/4/2019 4:08 pm : link
In comment 14247585 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14247552 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


several of the moves the GM made. Hell, he even said it was in plain spoken words.

Debating it wasn’t and hiding behind the rational that we were just improving is disengenuous.




Gettleman just said recently that the Stewart and Omameh signings were to help change the culture in the lockerroom. Kareem Martin and Nate Solder are also high character well respected men. It seems that many had forgotten about last year's mutiny in the locker room. That couldn't happen again and it appears these signings had more to do with character than trying to win now.


Separate topic but the value of character can be debated all day. Is character worth so much that in a sport where the goal is to build the best roster possible within a very limited amount of money that you can afford a $20m mistake like Omameh?
RE: RE: I just don't care what people say anymore  
BillKo : 1/4/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14247329 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14247324 Johnny5 said:


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There is too much focus put on Eli. At this point, it's pretty clear he can still win if he has decent blocking. It's also pretty clear there is some decline in his play. At the end of the day there are no vets I see out there that are a better option (that will be available for a reasonable price). I think he is back as the starter for 2019 either way but I would love to see him negotiate a better rate for the Giants for cap purposes.



Excellent and succinct summary of the situation. Agree 100%.


I second this.
RE: RE: I just don't care what people say anymore  
Johnny5 : 1/4/2019 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14247329 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14247324 Johnny5 said:


Quote:


There is too much focus put on Eli. At this point, it's pretty clear he can still win if he has decent blocking. It's also pretty clear there is some decline in his play. At the end of the day there are no vets I see out there that are a better option (that will be available for a reasonable price). I think he is back as the starter for 2019 either way but I would love to see him negotiate a better rate for the Giants for cap purposes.



Excellent and succinct summary of the situation. Agree 100%.

Thanks...

Hi Britt!
As always...no room for gray  
mako J : 1/4/2019 11:01 pm : link
Most new coaching staffs only get a couple of years to solidify their jobs. It's not just about measured improvement. There needs to be success because society no longer displays patience. There are pieces that are nearly undeniably necessary to create a winning foundation or culture, so ownership, coaches, players, and fans buy in. Pieces that help staffs install systems. Pieces that help players develop confidence in said systems. Pieces that leverage staff's ability to teach, grow, and improve their position coaches, their players, and themselves. What are those pieces?

Year 1's roster rebuild, retool, revamp, shakeup, whatever you choose to call it resulted in:

2/5 of the OL being solidified for the next 3+ years. The all important LT piece that has the ability to completely derail an entire season. Hell, some (McAdoo) may say the ability to derail a career. There is some interesting depth/competition pieces in Brown, Pio, and the C they kept on the 53 all year.

4 rookie/soph defensive front players all received significant playing time and flashed the ability to be scheme fits and assets moving forward.

A good start to the rebuild of the trenches.

What do most if not all defensive coordinators need? An extension of themselves on the field. Traditionally in the form of a mike linebacker. Piece added. Also, after reading Sy's recent review, Ogletree is likely helping Goodsen grow into that role to replace him eventually.

Other pieces? They found a punter and rightfully stuck with a young kicker finally. They locked up a game/scheme altering homegrown WR that helps any aged QB. They added a playmaker who just accomplished something only 2 men have ever done in the history of the game. And showed himself to be a future league MVP caliber asset and the kind of young man you want to be the face of your franchise.

Lastly, the effort never waivered. No suspensions, limited drama. An OBJ story and a rookie QB traffic incident. Pretty tame.

How do YOU judge a successful start to a franchise rebirth? Must it start with a QB? This fan thinks the GM was successful in putting a more entertaining product on the field. A more competitive product. A less tabloid active product. A roster mixed with draft picks, FA acquisitions, UDFA, endless waiver wire adds. Still a lot of holes but even the best teams have holes. Looking forward to player acquisition season #2. Regardless of what the QB depth chart looks like come summer, the QBs will be operating in an environment far more conducive to success because of the pieces added this year. Win now or rebuild? Who cares. It's gray.
RE: RE: I wouldn't..  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/5/2019 5:36 am : link
In comment 14247319 eugibs said:
Quote:
In comment 14247267 FatMan in Charlotte said:


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expect you to formulate one.

If you attribute not taking a QB at #2 as being a "draft strategy" to compete immediately, then that's what you are hung up on.

Again - we took a Guard, two DL guys, a LB and a backup QB.

Elaborating how that translates into a strategy that indicates making a Super Bowl run would be damn difficult, and impossible for you since you never looked past passing on a fucking QB.



Can you please define a "win now" off-season strategy if you do not believe that the 2018 Giants off-season strategy constituted one?

What I saw was a team sticking with an old quarterback in steady decline hoping for one more run, signing replacement level offensive lineman to large contracts, trading a valuable mid-round draft pick for a veteran linebacker, giving a massive contract to a veteran wide receiver coming off a season where he played 5 games, and last but certainly not least, using the second pick in the draft on a "transcendent talent" at the most replaceable position on the field and making him the one of the top payed players at that position in the league before he took a single snap.

Seems like a "win now" off-season strategy to me.


The Ogletree trade and the Omameh signing we're both clearly about changing the culture of the locker room. Omameh because DG said exactly that.
The Ram's had serious issue with run defense this year because of the  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/5/2019 5:39 am : link
trade. But they needed to clear cap space.
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't..  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14247933 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:


Seems like a "win now" off-season strategy to me.




The Ogletree trade and the Omameh signing we're both clearly about changing the culture of the locker room. Omameh because DG said exactly that.


Gotcha, because we were so solid at LB and RG before they came over...
We're not win now or rebuilding.  
Dodge : 1/5/2019 10:24 am : link
NFL teams don't rebuild, they don't have time. Good teams are constantly churning players on the back end. A good sign from DG is the churn. Unfortunately the back end of our roster that is supposed to be churned was big enough to have starters in it. That should signal tha our roster is/was shit.

Hopefully we have more churn next year but less players in that pool. The Giants pre DG never let go of bad players fast enough. That's not an issue now.

I suspect we'll see some churn in the QB room this year.
Agreed  
mako J : 1/5/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14248035 Dodge said:
Quote:
NFL teams don't rebuild, they don't have time. Good teams are constantly churning players on the back end. A good sign from DG is the churn. Unfortunately the back end of our roster that is supposed to be churned was big enough to have starters in it. That should signal tha our roster is/was shit.

Hopefully we have more churn next year but less players in that pool. The Giants pre DG never let go of bad players fast enough. That's not an issue now.

I suspect we'll see some churn in the QB room this year.


Your post appears to be a more succinct way of saying what my long winded post above was attempting to convey. What is your opinion on the state of the roster today opposed to this day last year? In other words, was year 1 a success in your eyes?
RE: Agreed  
Dodge : 1/5/2019 12:52 pm : link
In comment 14248047 mako J said:
Quote:
In comment 14248035 Dodge said:


Quote:


NFL teams don't rebuild, they don't have time. Good teams are constantly churning players on the back end. A good sign from DG is the churn. Unfortunately the back end of our roster that is supposed to be churned was big enough to have starters in it. That should signal tha our roster is/was shit.

Hopefully we have more churn next year but less players in that pool. The Giants pre DG never let go of bad players fast enough. That's not an issue now.

I suspect we'll see some churn in the QB room this year.



Your post appears to be a more succinct way of saying what my long winded post above was attempting to convey. What is your opinion on the state of the roster today opposed to this day last year? In other words, was year 1 a success in your eyes?


Depends on how you're looking at it. Was it a success on the field? Yes and no. No in that we were a 5 win team, yes in that the team didn't fall apart during the stretch. Teams need to learn to play together and win before they can become champions. There is more failure than success though, you really have to look for the silver lining.

Year 2 will be a huge tell on how well the coach is doing on the field.

In the front office? Yes I say success. We got rid of a lot of bad players, bad contracts (with more to come), and we got rid of a lot of losers. I love getting rid of Flowers. I love getting rid of Omameh. I love how there aren't any scholerships. It shows that talent wins out. That's how Pete Carroll built up a great program. It's about competition every single day. There is always someone coming in to take your job.

People point to Solder, Omameh and Stewart as failures of Gettleman. They're just looking at things in hindsight. Look at the state of our online prior to the signings. It was bad. Very Bad. We needed a big free agent splash just to get some good talent on the line. That was Solder and the market demanded his cost. So be it. He actually played well down the stretch and a lot of his sacks were the fault of the QB.

Omameh wasn't very expensive, so I don't really care about that contract, but people will whine about it. 3M in dead cap next year? There is a $190M cap coming up. I think we'll be ok.

Stewart? Bad signing, but I think it was more than just play, he was brought in to settle the locker room. I'm ok with that I think. He wasn't very expensive either, so who cares?

I think we'll see some interesting things this year. It's DGs first off season where his scouts worked the whole year, the front office is pointed in the right direction under what he wants to do. Ross is gone.

Anyone whining about how DG trashed analytics is a moron too.

So long post I think. Was last year a success? No, because we sucked. Were we successful in laying a new foundation and cutting out the dead weight? Yes. We'll see next year if it bears fruit.
We're in agreement  
mako J : 1/5/2019 2:08 pm : link
On DG and the necessary additions and subtractions that occurred and are likely to continue to occur.

Sounds like we may differ on the staff. I acknowledge Shurmur's need for game management improvement. There's only 32 of these jobs and I can live with growth needed there. Especially considering the way he handled motivating and preparing a deficient roster week in and out.

I like the schemes. I'm anxious like you to see what pieces they add with a full season under their belts to self scout and begin to marry talent with scheme.
---  
Peppers : 1/5/2019 7:45 pm : link
Carson would know.. All fair points regarding Eli.


Weighing in on the argument taking place in this thread..

I look at the Browns as the prime example. They had their choice, right? Barkley or QB. In need of both positions they selected the player most didn't even feel was a top 10 player in the draft maybe not even the best QB, but even still they selected Mayfield over Barkley, the more valuable position over the best player available. That decision completely changed the culture and outlook of a stained and hopeless franchise.

The arrow is up for the Browns because they have a QB.. The same can't be as easily argued for NYG for the simple fact they have no future at arguably the most important position in all sports.

RE: ---  
aka dbrny : 1/5/2019 7:53 pm : link
In comment 14248704 Peppers said:
Quote:
Carson would know.. All fair points regarding Eli.


Weighing in on the argument taking place in this thread..

I look at the Browns as the prime example. They had their choice, right? Barkley or QB. In need of both positions they selected the player most didn't even feel was a top 10 player in the draft maybe not even the best QB, but even still they selected Mayfield over Barkley, the more valuable position over the best player available. That decision completely changed the culture and outlook of a stained and hopeless franchise.

The arrow is up for the Browns because they have a QB.. The same can't be as easily argued for NYG for the simple fact they have no future at arguably the most important position in all sports.


You do realize that the Browns have been drafting their next Franchise quarterback every other year for like 20 years, right?
The Browns..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 8:15 pm : link
also drafted the 2nd best RB.

Their arrow is up because they improved their team, and even then, they were a whole 2 games better than us, a franchise supposedly floundering and aimless...
RE: RE: ---  
Peppers : 1/5/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14248722 aka dbrny said:
Quote:
In comment 14248704 Peppers said:


Quote:


Carson would know.. All fair points regarding Eli.


Weighing in on the argument taking place in this thread..

I look at the Browns as the prime example. They had their choice, right? Barkley or QB. In need of both positions they selected the player most didn't even feel was a top 10 player in the draft maybe not even the best QB, but even still they selected Mayfield over Barkley, the more valuable position over the best player available. That decision completely changed the culture and outlook of a stained and hopeless franchise.

The arrow is up for the Browns because they have a QB.. The same can't be as easily argued for NYG for the simple fact they have no future at arguably the most important position in all sports.




You do realize that the Browns have been drafting their next Franchise quarterback every other year for like 20 years, right?


The Browns haven't taken a QB in the top fifteen since Tim Couch 20 years ago. Since then they've had 13 top fifteen picks. None were QBs..
The Browns have..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 8:24 pm : link
also drafted 8 QB's in the past 15 years, with 3 of them taken in the 1st round.

Let's not act as if they haven't sunk significant resources into the position

RE: The Browns..  
Peppers : 1/5/2019 9:18 pm : link
In comment 14248769 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
also drafted the 2nd best RB.

Their arrow is up because they improved their team, and even then, they were a whole 2 games better than us, a franchise supposedly floundering and aimless...


Even though there were two other RBs selected before Chubb, I agree, Chubb was the 2nd best RB but that's really not relevant nor does it help your point because they got him in the 2nd round which was the argument for a lot of the people in favor of drafting a QB first.

2 wins better or 3 less losses again doesn't help your case because Cleveland is still 7 wins better than they were the year before. NYG is just 2 games better.

Improving the roster is obviously apart of it, and I don't think anyone is saying NYG hasn't improved theirs. The point being made is that the Browns arrow is pointing up for the simple fact that their future is settled at the most important position on the field while NYGs is not.. Everyone here should know it's very hard to sustain success in this league with uncertainty at the QB position.. And like it or not that's where the Giants are. Even for someone who likes to argue, it's very hard to argue that.

The Browns..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 9:30 pm : link
have improved to the point where they are mediocre. That's the NFL today.

They were 7-8-1 and are in a division with three teams who routinely contend for the playoffs. Going 8-8 next year is as likely as seeing marked improvement.

That's what people have to realize. Arrows pointing up don't mean a whole lot. Look at Jax this year. Look at Minny.

The race to improve the most from a shitty team doesn't mean a whole lot if simply makes you one of the dozen plus teams that will miss or make the playoffs based on health and a few bounces of the ball.
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