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Sy'56's Giants-Cowboys Game Review is Now Available

Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/4/2019 1:31 pm
FYI...
Game Review: Dallas Cowboys 36 Ė New York Giants 35 - ( New Window )
How SS  
dep026 : 1/4/2019 1:40 pm : link
didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.
Good as always.  
Dodge : 1/4/2019 1:51 pm : link
Can't wait for free agency/draft season.
Excellent review  
LG in NYC : 1/4/2019 1:56 pm : link
summed up the state of team perfectly
Thanks for all of you reviews Sy  
GiantGrit : 1/4/2019 2:11 pm : link
Lot of young talent on this team trending up...to what remains to be seen. Some of these guys look like nice back ups. I agree with your take on Simonson. I think he has potential to be nice a dual threat TE.
RE: How SS  
BillKo : 1/4/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14247401 dep026 said:
Quote:
didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.


I hear you Dep, but my question is, how many back shoulder throws did we see this year?

I really can't recall one........it seemed to be missing from the offense since 2016.
regarding Kerry Wynn....  
BillKo : 1/4/2019 2:28 pm : link
...is it just me, or does he appear to be better suited in this defense (3-4).

I thought he played well, or at least stood out this year, more than in the in the past.

Surprised to read his PT had diminished...........
RE: RE: How SS  
dep026 : 1/4/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14247458 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 14247401 dep026 said:


Quote:


didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.



I hear you Dep, but my question is, how many back shoulder throws did we see this year?

I really can't recall one........it seemed to be missing from the offense since 2016.


Its really tough to run them against cCover 2 cause the CB always has over the top help so he may not be taking the go route away.

But I remember Plax and Nicks running that play in their sleep and dominating with it.
RE: RE: RE: How SS  
BillKo : 1/4/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14247474 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247458 BillKo said:


Quote:


In comment 14247401 dep026 said:


Quote:


didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.



I hear you Dep, but my question is, how many back shoulder throws did we see this year?

I really can't recall one........it seemed to be missing from the offense since 2016.



Its really tough to run them against cCover 2 cause the CB always has over the top help so he may not be taking the go route away.

But I remember Plax and Nicks running that play in their sleep and dominating with it.


Even Rueben Randle ran it well. But that all went away when 2016 started.

Kinda my point.....I thought back shoulder as soon as I saw it...but if they aren't even practicing it.....

I think Eli just reacted to it, SS unfortunately didn't.
Shepard just isn't a downfield guy  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 2:51 pm : link
.
RE: Shepard just isn't a downfield guy  
dep026 : 1/4/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14247490 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
.


Thatís true. But itís a simple concept. IMO, he has to be a trade option especially if Eli is gone. Realistically heís option number 4 when everyoneís healthy.
Why would you trade SS?  
giants#1 : 1/4/2019 3:05 pm : link
Unless someone's offering a 1st round pick, you keep him. Not everyone needs to be a star and while he's not a downfield threat, they don't really need him to be with Beckham and Engram. They need a reliable WR that can work inside and do a lot of the dirty things. SS needs to cut down on the drops, but his run blocking, especially with a guy likely Barkley, is a major asset.

sy  
hassan : 1/4/2019 3:15 pm : link
you mentioned Eli had earned the right to keep playing. You also asked what the alternative was on the board. Yet this review seems to suggest he is done.

Why the change of heart?
RE: Thanks for all of you reviews Sy  
BIG FRED 1973 : 1/4/2019 3:30 pm : link
In comment 14247451 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Lot of young talent on this team trending up...to what remains to be seen. Some of these guys look like nice back ups. I agree with your take on Simonson. I think he has potential to be nice a dual threat TE.
Agree on Simonson ,he was on a few teams but he definitely improved as the year went on .He is a Giants fan and season ticket holder so that helps also lol
RE: Why would you trade SS?  
dep026 : 1/4/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14247505 giants#1 said:
Quote:
Unless someone's offering a 1st round pick, you keep him. Not everyone needs to be a star and while he's not a downfield threat, they don't really need him to be with Beckham and Engram. They need a reliable WR that can work inside and do a lot of the dirty things. SS needs to cut down on the drops, but his run blocking, especially with a guy likely Barkley, is a major asset.


If a team offered a 2nd round pick for SS... you accept it. Hang up the phone and start high giving everyone.

Heís gonna be a free agent and is going to want to be paid.
RE: RE: Why would you trade SS?  
Jay on the Island : 1/4/2019 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14247563 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247505 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Unless someone's offering a 1st round pick, you keep him. Not everyone needs to be a star and while he's not a downfield threat, they don't really need him to be with Beckham and Engram. They need a reliable WR that can work inside and do a lot of the dirty things. SS needs to cut down on the drops, but his run blocking, especially with a guy likely Barkley, is a major asset.




If a team offered a 2nd round pick for SS... you accept it. Hang up the phone and start high giving everyone.

Heís gonna be a free agent and is going to want to be paid.

Agreed, Shepard will likely get 7+ million per season on his new deal. I think the Giants could get a similar WR with that 2nd round pick.
RE: sy  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14247519 hassan said:
Quote:
you mentioned Eli had earned the right to keep playing. You also asked what the alternative was on the board. Yet this review seems to suggest he is done.

Why the change of heart?


Here is the thing for Eli. If the replacement is a rookie or a Bridgewater or Lauletta...Manning deserves to stay. I lean towards him being THE guy but not at the expense of garbage coming in.

Unless there is a trade for a Carr or Stafford, I'm not sure the better solution is out there.

I am curious to see Foles in the postseason because he is a guy that I think can do well here. For a few years.
RE: RE: Why would you trade SS?  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 4:05 pm : link
In comment 14247563 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247505 giants#1 said:


Quote:


Unless someone's offering a 1st round pick, you keep him. Not everyone needs to be a star and while he's not a downfield threat, they don't really need him to be with Beckham and Engram. They need a reliable WR that can work inside and do a lot of the dirty things. SS needs to cut down on the drops, but his run blocking, especially with a guy likely Barkley, is a major asset.




If a team offered a 2nd round pick for SS... you accept it. Hang up the phone and start high giving everyone.

Heís gonna be a free agent and is going to want to be paid.


I'm usually not pro trading young assets, but it does make sense if someone actually offered a 2. You can replace Shepard rather easily.

But I don't think anyone is offering him a 2nd for a 1 year rental
RE: RE: sy  
BigBlueShock : 1/4/2019 4:15 pm : link
In comment 14247603 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247519 hassan said:


Quote:


you mentioned Eli had earned the right to keep playing. You also asked what the alternative was on the board. Yet this review seems to suggest he is done.

Why the change of heart?



Here is the thing for Eli. If the replacement is a rookie or a Bridgewater or Lauletta...Manning deserves to stay. I lean towards him being THE guy but not at the expense of garbage coming in.

Unless there is a trade for a Carr or Stafford, I'm not sure the better solution is out there.

I am curious to see Foles in the postseason because he is a guy that I think can do well here. For a few years.

Are you ok with paying Nick Foles $20 Million per year?

For me, No thanks. This team isnít Nick Foles away from competing for a Super Bowl.
RE: RE: RE: sy  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 4:16 pm : link
In comment 14247613 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14247603 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14247519 hassan said:


Quote:


you mentioned Eli had earned the right to keep playing. You also asked what the alternative was on the board. Yet this review seems to suggest he is done.

Why the change of heart?



Here is the thing for Eli. If the replacement is a rookie or a Bridgewater or Lauletta...Manning deserves to stay. I lean towards him being THE guy but not at the expense of garbage coming in.

Unless there is a trade for a Carr or Stafford, I'm not sure the better solution is out there.

I am curious to see Foles in the postseason because he is a guy that I think can do well here. For a few years.


Are you ok with paying Nick Foles $20 Million per year?

For me, No thanks. This team isnít Nick Foles away from competing for a Super Bowl.


No, I am not.

But I don't think that will be the price.
I don't think SS is as bad as some here want to portray  
LG in NYC : 1/4/2019 4:16 pm : link
but I would agree a 2nd Rd pick should be accepted gladly.

I'm not saying SS is bad  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 4:26 pm : link
Not at all. I think he is a very good slot with the limitations of being a slot-only.

Trust me, if he goes to NE or KC...100+ catches.
I wouldn't be opposed to Foles  
Jay on the Island : 1/4/2019 4:36 pm : link
as long as he was the veteran stopgap for a high draft pick. I don't think there are any great options this year as I am not a fan of Daniel Jones or Lock and I think Haskins has too many concerns to take at 6.
SY'56  
Pascal4554 : 1/4/2019 4:43 pm : link
Thanks for the review. Look forward to these every week.

A little surprised about your slight change in position on Eli. There were times this year were you seemed very bullish on him or at least defend him. Guess that is just a sign of his up and down play?

I've been a big Eli homer for a long time, and this season I've lost faith in him. Just seems like as soon as anything is off schedule or he gets a whiff of pressure the play is dead. I'm ready to see our offense with a new QB for better or worse. Not sure if there are better free agent or draft options then Eli, but as a fan I'm ready to see a change.

Looking forward to your scouting reports as the draft gets closer.

I think Foles can be the guy for 3-5 seasons  
twostepgiants : 1/4/2019 5:31 pm : link
And can bridge the gap of Barkley and Odells prime.

Foles will be 30 next season and should be good for 3-5 years

RE: I'm not saying SS is bad  
Jimmy Googs : 1/4/2019 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14247631 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Not at all. I think he is a very good slot with the limitations of being a slot-only.

Trust me, if he goes to NE or KC...100+ catches.


Why is that? Do we not have a QB or play caller that can get that same production out of him?
RE: RE: I'm not saying SS is bad  
adamg : 1/4/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14247710 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14247631 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


Not at all. I think he is a very good slot with the limitations of being a slot-only.

Trust me, if he goes to NE or KC...100+ catches.



Why is that? Do we not have a QB or play caller that can get that same production out of him?


I think that was an Eli dig.
Just so weird to me how some people seem to get off  
JCin332 : 1/4/2019 6:01 pm : link
on saying he's done which he clearly isn't...no QB who throw's for over 4000 yards with a shit OL is done...
RE: How SS  
section125 : 1/4/2019 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14247401 dep026 said:
Quote:
didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.


it was a lousy pass and 5 yards behind him...
RE: RE: How SS  
rocco8112 : 1/4/2019 6:45 pm : link
In comment 14247753 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247401 dep026 said:


Quote:


didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.



it was a lousy pass and 5 yards behind him...


That play did look like a miscommunication of some type.

I think Eli is done here as well after the close out interviews I heard on Wed, but the past two weeks the passing game, was humming and the Giants moved the ball basically the whole second half of the season except the Titan game.

They put up 30 plus against Dallas and near 30 against the Colts. Enough offense to win really. If Eli led the miracle 26 second drive or if the fourth down Latimer ball is complete and they move into FG range for the winner than Eli can still play?

If he is old and washed up, why did he get better as the year went on? Just strange that off of a season where he and the passing game improved through week 17 everyone thinks he is toast.

The topic has been beaten to death and soon there will be a new QB.

Also, accurate throw on the TD to Beasley? They showed that replay a hundred times for the review and I don't know if a Giant was on the screen. Dak was flushed and ran from the pocket and chucked it up on a scramble drill. Athleticism to escape sure, but what was so special about the throw?

Keep him in the pocket and he does not scare me. Also that Dallas D you hyped and it is good, was the same one Eli lit up. Dallas may make a run, but it will be the D and run game carrying them. Hope they lose big on Sat.
Also,  
rocco8112 : 1/4/2019 6:46 pm : link
enjoy these write ups, thank you it can't be fun when the team stinks.
discussing manning is boring and a broken record  
hassan : 1/4/2019 7:23 pm : link
from which camp you are in perspective. i find it interesting the sentiment ebbs and flows so much that even Syís opinion shifts.

I do think Eli will need to see a commitment to improve the line significantly or will demand a trade or release or retire. itís no longer just a giants decision.

they have tremendous leverage if they take the mindset replacing him is inevitable.
Foles is due to make 20 million  
buddyryansux10 : 1/4/2019 7:26 pm : link
If he stays with Philadelphia, which I donít think he will, but Iíd imagine he make almost Kirk Cousins money, maybe not totally guaranteed. Not saying it would happen, or Iíd want it to happen but if Eli did retire or want to move on, itíd Be interesting to see how Shurmur would utilize Foles.
Now come on Sy....  
kinard : 1/4/2019 7:30 pm : link
... how could you really have "....discussed Hill as an immediate contributor at this time last year,..." when he was still in college?

I'm guessing that's not what you really meant.... unless you can see into the future.

Regardless, I still look forward to reading your game reviews every week.
Really good assessment across the board  
aka dbrny : 1/4/2019 7:48 pm : link
Upgrade right tackle and center immediately and Brown might be ok for reasonable money. Focus on pass rush and safeties, and grab a QB if a clear long-term improvement is there. This is not a complete rebuild from here. As we saw at guard, any position upgrade over ďcompletely sucksĒ will make a big difference.
RE: RE: How SS  
dep026 : 1/4/2019 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14247753 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247401 dep026 said:


Quote:


didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.



it was a lousy pass and 5 yards behind him...


Iíve explained this a million times to you... haha

If a QB throws a back shoulder throw, and the WR keeps running, itís going to be behind him. Sy has alluded to this. Dorgan has alluded to this. As soon as the CB was on top of SS, he automatically has to look for back shoulder throw. This is a simple read taught in high school.
RE: SY'56  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 9:44 pm : link
In comment 14247652 Pascal4554 said:
Quote:
Thanks for the review. Look forward to these every week.

A little surprised about your slight change in position on Eli. There were times this year were you seemed very bullish on him or at least defend him. Guess that is just a sign of his up and down play?

I've been a big Eli homer for a long time, and this season I've lost faith in him. Just seems like as soon as anything is off schedule or he gets a whiff of pressure the play is dead. I'm ready to see our offense with a new QB for better or worse. Not sure if there are better free agent or draft options then Eli, but as a fan I'm ready to see a change.

Looking forward to your scouting reports as the draft gets closer.


I have defended the decision to move forward with Manning while picking Barkley the entire time. That is where I stood. Bypassing Barkley for a QB (Darnold) that I just didn't believe in was the base of my approach on Eli.

With that said, there are many limitations to his game. If there is an opportunity to bring in a new talent that is either better, or will be better soon, I say go for it.
RE: RE: I'm not saying SS is bad  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 9:45 pm : link
In comment 14247710 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14247631 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


Not at all. I think he is a very good slot with the limitations of being a slot-only.

Trust me, if he goes to NE or KC...100+ catches.



Why is that? Do we not have a QB or play caller that can get that same production out of him?


This offense is not capable of producing those results with this OL and this QB.
RE: Now come on Sy....  
Sy'56 : 1/4/2019 9:47 pm : link
In comment 14247812 kinard said:
Quote:
... how could you really have "....discussed Hill as an immediate contributor at this time last year,..." when he was still in college?

I'm guessing that's not what you really meant.... unless you can see into the future.

Regardless, I still look forward to reading your game reviews every week.


In a lot of my reports, I wrote that Hill was a week 1 starter in the NFL. And my reports were written between January and March.
RE: Now come on Sy....  
Sammo85 : 1/4/2019 10:05 pm : link
In comment 14247812 kinard said:
Quote:
... how could you really have "....discussed Hill as an immediate contributor at this time last year,..." when he was still in college?

I'm guessing that's not what you really meant.... unless you can see into the future.

Regardless, I still look forward to reading your game reviews every week.


Sy absolutely did. Multiple times when reviewing NC State, draft prep by position/combine and then during the draft and just after. Talked about Hill was slightly overshadowed by the other NC State linemen but had real NFL talent and translation.

Heís a real asset and resource to this board and for us fans.
I think you doth exaggerate....  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 8:39 am : link
RE: How SS
section125 : 1/4/2019 6:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 14247401 dep026 said:
Quote:
didnt recognize the back shoulder throw at the end of the game still mystifies me.


it was a lousy pass and 5 yards behind him...



It was a lousy looking pass because they were not on the same page......but it was not 5 yards behind.....the play was there, but SS was not thinking back shoulder and tripped himself....

The play calling sucked on those 4 passes.....the first one was a quick throw away.....it looked like we were going for a first down on each pass, instead of hitting a short one, like we have done all season, and then have the option of another short one for a first down, or go downfield with it....

I agree with Sy, that Eli can be a game manager, with an OL in front of him.....but "clutch" Eli does not exist anymore....those last four passes looked like he was aiming the ball instead of throwing it naturally.....that is a "pressure thing" that we never saw from Eli at his best...and he does not see the field like he use to.....on many occasions he has thrown into coverage, where receivers were not just open, but wide open.....

So if there is not a better option out there, you keep him and fix the OL....otherwise we could use that 17M elsewhere...
RE: RE: RE: RE: sy  
Rafflee : 1/5/2019 10:37 am : link
In comment 14247614 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247613 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 14247603 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14247519 hassan said:


Quote:


you mentioned Eli had earned the right to keep playing. You also asked what the alternative was on the board. Yet this review seems to suggest he is done.

Why the change of heart?



Here is the thing for Eli. If the replacement is a rookie or a Bridgewater or Lauletta...Manning deserves to stay. I lean towards him being THE guy but not at the expense of garbage coming in.

Unless there is a trade for a Carr or Stafford, I'm not sure the better solution is out there.

I am curious to see Foles in the postseason because he is a guy that I think can do well here. For a few years.


Are you ok with paying Nick Foles $20 Million per year?

For me, No thanks. This team isnít Nick Foles away from competing for a Super Bowl.



No, I am not.

But I don't think that will be the price.


Obviously, everything is on the table here......but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility of a shorter term deal for an "Eli Replacement" who might evolve into a 5-7 year guy...Bridgewater is a great exanmple of a guy who needs to get a Starter's shot, and he's better off with a 1-2 year deal with an opportunity to go get big bucks after "Prooving it"....there aren't many places He can do that with Great Weapons around him.

I don't know what they think of Him, and I have no strong opinions on him, but he's 26 years old with some experience and "Pedigree".
I pretty much agree on the draft and future Sy  
PatersonPlank : 1/5/2019 12:23 pm : link
Sure if there is a guy there that DG thinks is going to be our next 10 year QB you take him, or a trade for Carr or Stafford (who could be our next 5 year QB at least), you do it. Otherwise lets not reach for a QB, passing up some true top OL. We need to build that OL up to. We can do this, hopefully get Eli more time, and then take the QB in 2020.
always so good and informed! thank you  
ColHowPepper : 1/5/2019 12:46 pm : link
comments:

TEs - Simonson, struggled in blocking for sure, and I think he was flagged for one if not two holding penalties, for which he was guilty a bunch over the last half season. Engram is a threat (assuming he actually catches the ball) but, man, could the Giants use a true, all purpose TE.
omfg, Witten retires but an unknown Jarwin steps right in and torches the middle of the field, as Sy' said. Why can't the Giants find these guys?

WR - crazy catches by Lattimore, and I thought the first was clearly DPI as Byron (?) grabbed his arm, OBJ's one handers taking the league by storm.
SS - many here down on him, but slot is his position and he has been forced out of it.

OL - well, if Sy' is still down on Brown, sheesh, yet another hole. And I'd rather go Day 2 than Day 3 for OC. We haven't had a player there in sooo loong. C, RG, RT??? yikes

LBs - not sure I see Goodson as so capable sideline to sideline, I see a lack of quickness and reaction. And he missed a couple of tackles vs Dallas, including one in the backfield where he couldn't hold on to the leg of the RB.

Safeties - what a pile of crap there. Letting Adams go--many here thought it was a head scratcher even if he was very uneven in '17, but with the lack of ability at this position--clearly a mistake.
Has to be a major off season priority, along with OL, DL/LB edge rusher, etc.
RE: RE: Now come on Sy....  
ColHowPepper : 1/5/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14247890 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247812 kinard said: Quote:
.. how could you really have "....discussed Hill as an immediate contributor at this time last year,..." when he was still in college?
I'm guessing that's not what you really meant.... unless you can see into the future.
Regardless, I still look forward to reading your game reviews every week. ///////

In a lot of my reports, I wrote that Hill was a week 1 starter in the NFL. And my reports were written between January and March.
kinard, I recall that's exactly what Sy' wrote, surprising for him to be so positive on a FO draftee! (: In truth, that projection on BJ last spring stuck in my mind.
.  
CalZone : 1/6/2019 9:57 am : link
If Eli comes back, DG can say that he will keep his current salary/cap hit with the precondition that he must take dance classes in the offseason! Like 3 times a day; 4 times a week, and go to the Amazon rainforest for 2 weeks to work with a Shaman dropping LSD and joining in tribal dancing.

This sounds like a joke, and it sort of is, but I'm certain his presence/movement in the pocket would change for the better regardless of age.
His game is limited because his mind is limited.
"I'm from the south and want to be a good person".
The difference it would make if he opened up beyond his simple domesticated life.
Why isn't....  
Mike From Brielle : 1/6/2019 6:56 pm : link
the grabbing of Latimer in the photograph above Sy's report not pass interference or at least holding (yes he caught it but no flag was thrown)? Why did Latimer have to make a fantastic one handed grab; because the Dallas defender was holding Cody's other arm, with his eyes firmly fixed on Latimer, and the ref looking right at it. Is it me or have the rules changed on pass interference and / or holding. I looked at the replay of that game multiple times and I still can't figure that out. It seems to me that when Giant defenders get a tenth as grabby as what I see from the Cowboys it looks like a yellow thunderstorm.
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