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Von Miller on the block?

adamg : 1/4/2019 3:23 pm
ESPN was reporting Elway was potentially taking offers for Miller.

Would he be worth our 6th overall pick?
Does a bear  
HoustonGiant : 1/4/2019 3:25 pm : link
shit in the woods?
Wait!  
HoustonGiant : 1/4/2019 3:26 pm : link
I thought you said 6th round....
Not at his age  
superspynyg : 1/4/2019 3:27 pm : link
Def 2nd rd pick or a high 1st if we had it.
He’s about to turn 30.  
mattyblue : 1/4/2019 3:28 pm : link
You can’t possibly give up the number 6 pick in the draft for him. Especially with the state of the Giants.
Even though he's  
Gman11 : 1/4/2019 3:28 pm : link
a proven commodity, getting a pass rusher in the draft will be a lot cheaper
I'll trade them Eli  
giants#1 : 1/4/2019 3:28 pm : link
and toss in our 2nd round pick!
What I find fascinating about trading draft picks..  
Sean : 1/4/2019 3:29 pm : link
The 6th overall pick is mote valuable prior to the player actually being drafted.

The 6th overall pick is super valuable right now, but once we draft a player a lot of times the value goes down.
He's already 29  
allstarjim : 1/4/2019 3:30 pm : link
He'll play next season at 30.

That's not ancient, but when you use a 6th overall pick, you're hoping to get a 22 year old version of a Von Miller with that pick. I understand that Von is a sure thing (and a future HOFer), and the draft is a gamble, and part of me is thinking that it would be stupid not to make that trade, but I just think that #6 overall is too valuable for a 30 year old non-QB.

If we traded down, got extra pick compensation, and they would still take our first rounder for him, somewhere in the back end of the first round, and we got the extra picks...that's a different story.
Not worth it  
anon837 : 1/4/2019 3:31 pm : link
This team has way too many holes to fill. They are not one player away from competing.
You trade for Von Miller...  
M.S. : 1/4/2019 3:31 pm : link

...when you are a legitimate contender.

Giants are neither legit or a contender.
Miller  
DanMetroMan : 1/4/2019 3:34 pm : link
is a great player but absolutely NOT. Von Miller for a top 10 pick isn't a bad deal.. if it's a very talented team that lost it's QB early in the year to major injury but otherwise, look at the Giants roster. Von Miller makes them better for sure but still a bad team.
If Eli was 4-5 years younger  
Jay on the Island : 1/4/2019 3:34 pm : link
I would make the trade but not now. I'd rather use the 6th pick on Josh Allen or Ferrell who are much younger and cheaper.
Even up for OBJ ...  
Spider56 : 1/4/2019 3:35 pm : link
I would do it in a heartbeat
The value of pick  
pjcas18 : 1/4/2019 3:36 pm : link
#6 is in theory you can draft a player like Miller and not have to pay him nearly what Miller makes.

Trading that pick for Miller defeats the purpose.

Of course there is a risk the Giants do not draft a player like Miller (at whatever position, relatively speaking).

But at the same time, Miller is approaching 30.

He's someone I'd consider, but not for pick #6.

He is not like Kahlil Mack.

30 years old??  
BillKo : 1/4/2019 3:37 pm : link
Forget it.

Why do you think the Broncos are trying to trade him?

They know they need to rebuild and it's going to take a few years......when Miller will be probably done.
glad Dallas traded their 1st for Cooper  
giants#1 : 1/4/2019 3:38 pm : link
because Von Miller would take that D to the next level. Von Miller and Lawrence off the edges would be lethal and a LB corps comprised of Smith, Vander Esch, and Von Miller would be unreal.

Combine that with their ball control offense and you might be looking at a title.
Doesn’t he have a huge contract he’s playing on?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 3:39 pm : link
I would never give a 6th overall pick for any player, who will be 30 in 2 months, unless, possibly, he was a solid starting QB and even then, I’d have pause
From age 30-34...  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 3:40 pm : link
Strahan had 67 sacks, Reggie White had 62 sacks, Bruce Smith had 61 sacks, Kevin Greene had 60 sacks...

So production from the early 30s to the mid-30s for these pass rushers like Miller is more than evident.

I would give this a long, long look...
You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 3:48 pm : link
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?

I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
RE: You trade for Von Miller...  
ajr2456 : 1/4/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14247542 M.S. said:
Quote:

...when you are a legitimate contender.

Giants are neither legit or a contender.


Not advocating for it, but nobody saw the Bears as contenders when they traded for Mack.
RE: You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group?  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14247568 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?

I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time


No, I cited great players as comparative points.
RE: RE: You trade for Von Miller...  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 3:52 pm : link
In comment 14247571 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247542 M.S. said:


Quote:



...when you are a legitimate contender.

Giants are neither legit or a contender.



Not advocating for it, but nobody saw the Bears as contenders when they traded for Mack.


Mack was 27, arguably the best in the business and would have been worth our number 1 at the least. Not Miller, not at 30. Not anymore.
Two teams in the top 12 that would discuss Von Miller  
FStubbs : 1/4/2019 3:53 pm : link
7 - Jacksonville. And that's only if they find a starting QB in free agency.
12 - Green Bay. I think if Denver offers Von Miller for the 12th pick, given Aaron Rodgers is 35, Green Bay runs and takes the deal. That gives their defense a huge jolt and allows them to focus the rest of the draft on weapons for Rodgers.

Detroit at 8 might be interested but I doubt it. Nobody else in the top 12 has the luxury to add Von Miller for their pick.
RE: RE: You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14247574 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14247568 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?

Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)

I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time



No, I cited great players as comparative points.
RE: RE: You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group?  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14247574 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14247568 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?

I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time



No, I cited great players as comparative points.


Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
We aren't close to being one pass rusher away  
jlukes : 1/4/2019 3:55 pm : link
so no
That type of contract is a lot easier to take on  
Go Terps : 1/4/2019 3:58 pm : link
if you aren't paying a franchise quarterback.
RE: RE: RE: You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group?  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 4:04 pm : link
In comment 14247586 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:

Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)


Like I said, I'd give it a long look. Consistently good pass rushers are very hard to find. This guy is a Hall of Famer. Do you think we can hook a HoF caliber player at #?

I read all week long from your ilk how this season was derailed because of the D. Well, an acquisition like this would certainly go a long way to improving that... ;)

RE: From age 30-34...  
Sammo85 : 1/4/2019 4:17 pm : link
In comment 14247558 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Strahan had 67 sacks, Reggie White had 62 sacks, Bruce Smith had 61 sacks, Kevin Greene had 60 sacks...

So production from the early 30s to the mid-30s for these pass rushers like Miller is more than evident.

I would give this a long, long look...


Absolutely not. Miller is not at all the same type as the names you mentioned. Those were guys who relied on quick twitch and had tremendous ability and raw physical power. Miller is smaller and compact with good strength but is more about fluidity and speed. Those two attributes will be hit hard as he ages. He will put up sacks for a few years to come but he will decline hard unless he decides to take a Freeney route and become a pass rush specialist to extend his career.
Nope  
JonC : 1/4/2019 4:25 pm : link
.
Elway looking for trinkets to move....  
MOOPS : 1/4/2019 4:28 pm : link
near the head of the draft line.
RE: Not at his age  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/4/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14247529 superspynyg said:
Quote:
Def 2nd rd pick or a high 1st if we had it.

We don't have a high 1st? Only five teams have higher 1sts.
+1 the consensus  
idiotsavant : 1/4/2019 4:34 pm : link
The draftee is younger (many more years to play) and less expensive, while being possibly just as good, with a chance at being better .

If we are very careful, we may draft the once in a blue moon pass rushing DT and _also_ a legit olb playmaking pass rusher.

You do that, you instantly improve the production of Hill, wynn, Macintosh, etc etc and the DBs your about to draft.
RE: RE: From age 30-34...  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 4:38 pm : link
In comment 14247617 Sammo85 said:
Quote:


Absolutely not. Miller is not at all the same type as the names you mentioned. Those were guys who relied on quick twitch and had tremendous ability and raw physical power. Miller is smaller and compact with good strength but is more about fluidity and speed. Those two attributes will be hit hard as he ages. He will put up sacks for a few years to come but he will decline hard unless he decides to take a Freeney route and become a pass rush specialist to extend his career.


Miller averages 13 sacks per year over his 8 years in the league. He's coming off another highly productive year with 14 sacks and another 4 forced fumbles.

If we get 80% of that production, that's still 10+ sacks per year. And there will be the pressures that add up to. The force multiplier impact can't be overlooked either - he's going to draw a lot of attention and create more opportunities for other players.

I'm not completely sold on the idea. I just don't think it's an easy No.
Then, dos centavos miller  
idiotsavant : 1/4/2019 4:41 pm : link
I wouldn't rush lb Carter into full on 4/3 run D size and power type olb.

I'd maybe get Carter reps, with his speed, in zone pass defending, see if he can start to get in those zones and knock shiznit down with regularity.

Drafting additional blue chipper DL and OLB players may help you justify the time cost.
If we were an ER away from  
bradshaw44 : 1/4/2019 4:42 pm : link
contenders, sure. Where we are? No chance. We need to build a younger and cheaper roster.
Maybe the split is ' make a run ' crowd  
idiotsavant : 1/4/2019 4:47 pm : link
Vs 'build it up ' crowd.

I see manning as a fort holder so the foundation can be established....it's not about the W/L yet, it's about not letting any team score easily, shutinh people down and building a great run OL.
Going out and trading away a high draft  
bradshaw44 : 1/4/2019 4:53 pm : link
pick with the shape our roster is in, for an older, albeit highly productive player, would be a VERY Redskins-like move. They neglected building a team for Snyders first 15 years as owner. They constantly signed big name FA's only to have them fade off into the sunset as the rest of the team around them fell apart.

It makes no sense to go out and get him when we have a lot of building to do. We turned over most of our roster just this year. We are in flux.
Really prefer young aquisitions  
micky : 1/4/2019 5:01 pm : link
VM is good trade for team that is pretty much settled and close to winning it all. Plus, have the cap and resources to do so
You guys decide. From Spotrac:  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 5:10 pm : link
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million

2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million

2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million


Plus our 6th overall pick?
RE: You guys decide. From Spotrac:  
robbieballs2003 : 1/4/2019 5:44 pm : link
In comment 14247694 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million

2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million

2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million


Plus our 6th overall pick?


None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
RE: Does a bear  
djm : 1/4/2019 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14247527 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
shit in the woods?


Apparently not because I wouldn’t deal our 6th for miller. Maybe 3 years ago but not anymore.
RE: Wait!  
djm : 1/4/2019 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14247528 HoustonGiant said:
Quote:
I thought you said 6th round....


Gah! Can I retract? Yes a bear Does shit in the woods.
RE: RE: You guys decide. From Spotrac:  
bw in dc : 1/4/2019 5:51 pm : link
In comment 14247722 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:

None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.


So with an expected salary cap of $190M, basically 9% of that.
Um no  
Ssanders9816 : 1/4/2019 5:58 pm : link
Next
RE: RE: You guys decide. From Spotrac:  
Big Blue '56 : 1/4/2019 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14247722 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247694 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million

2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million

2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million


Plus our 6th overall pick?



None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.


Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
.  
arcarsenal : 1/4/2019 6:20 pm : link
Nope. You make this move when you're much closer than we are. Not when you're trying to rebuild your football team. Dealing away a pick as high as 6 overall kills a great opportunity to add another top flight player to the roster on a rookie deal - which is what we need a lot more of here and how you turn a failing team around.
if they were a pass rusher away sure  
GiantsFan84 : 1/4/2019 7:01 pm : link
but they are not. not worth considering
...  
christian : 1/4/2019 8:13 pm : link
Giants need to get younger and build up for a window. Think 2007-2011.

Those pieces really started accumulating in 03/04/05.

I'd rather bet on getting a Osi or Tuck, and not cross my fingers on a Strahan.
Not a chance in hell  
bigbluehoya : 1/4/2019 8:35 pm : link
Anyone would give up #6 overall for the right to pay him 3 x $18.

But I’d swap #6 for #10 and give them the rights to Landon Collins. That’s about it though. And that’s probably not enough for them unless they’re really itching to lean into a rebuild and accelerate his cap hit into 2019
RE: RE: RE: You guys decide. From Spotrac:  
robbieballs2003 : 1/4/2019 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14247742 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247722 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14247694 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million

2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million

2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million


Plus our 6th overall pick?



None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.



Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?


Never said that. I am just posting the info that is relevant.
And nobody wanted  
Doomster : 1/4/2019 10:58 pm : link
wanted Gonzalez back in 2009......
Our 1st round pick?  
Giant John : 1/5/2019 7:17 am : link
You’re out of your minds. How stupid can you be? Go back to your hot dog stands.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You guys decide. From Spotrac:  
Big Blue '56 : 1/5/2019 7:30 am : link
In comment 14247879 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247742 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14247722 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14247694 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million

2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million

2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million


Plus our 6th overall pick?



None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.



Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?



Never said that. I am just posting the info that is relevant.


Gotcha. Somehow I interpreted the “what would matter” as an endorsement. My bad.
RE: And nobody wanted  
Big Blue '56 : 1/5/2019 7:32 am : link
In comment 14247911 Doomster said:
Quote:
wanted Gonzalez back in 2009......


We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe. We’re talking here about the 6th OVERALL pick in the draft. huge difference
RE: RE: And nobody wanted  
FStubbs : 1/5/2019 8:12 am : link
In comment 14247952 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247911 Doomster said:


Quote:


wanted Gonzalez back in 2009......



We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe. We’re talking here about the 6th OVERALL pick in the draft. huge difference


At the time that made some level of sense. Who knew Gonzalez had 5 more all pro years in him?
Looks like we should have done it!  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 9:23 am : link
RE: And nobody wanted
Big Blue '56 : 7:32 am : link : reply
In comment 14247911 Doomster said:
Quote:
wanted Gonzalez back in 2009......


We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe.
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