That's not ancient, but when you use a 6th overall pick, you're hoping to get a 22 year old version of a Von Miller with that pick. I understand that Von is a sure thing (and a future HOFer), and the draft is a gamble, and part of me is thinking that it would be stupid not to make that trade, but I just think that #6 overall is too valuable for a 30 year old non-QB.
If we traded down, got extra pick compensation, and they would still take our first rounder for him, somewhere in the back end of the first round, and we got the extra picks...that's a different story.
is a great player but absolutely NOT. Von Miller for a top 10 pick isn't a bad deal.. if it's a very talented team that lost it's QB early in the year to major injury but otherwise, look at the Giants roster. Von Miller makes them better for sure but still a bad team.
because Von Miller would take that D to the next level. Von Miller and Lawrence off the edges would be lethal and a LB corps comprised of Smith, Vander Esch, and Von Miller would be unreal.
Combine that with their ball control offense and you might be looking at a title.
Doesn’t he have a huge contract he’s playing on? Â
I would never give a 6th overall pick for any player, who will be 30 in 2 months, unless, possibly, he was a solid starting QB and even then, I’d have pause
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
7 - Jacksonville. And that's only if they find a starting QB in free agency.
12 - Green Bay. I think if Denver offers Von Miller for the 12th pick, given Aaron Rodgers is 35, Green Bay runs and takes the deal. That gives their defense a huge jolt and allows them to focus the rest of the draft on weapons for Rodgers.
Detroit at 8 might be interested but I doubt it. Nobody else in the top 12 has the luxury to add Von Miller for their pick.
RE: RE: You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group? Â
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?
Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
No, I cited great players as comparative points.
RE: RE: You cite 4 players out of 2 million in that age group? Â
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
No, I cited great players as comparative points.
Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
Like I said, I'd give it a long look. Consistently good pass rushers are very hard to find. This guy is a Hall of Famer. Do you think we can hook a HoF caliber player at #?
I read all week long from your ilk how this season was derailed because of the D. Well, an acquisition like this would certainly go a long way to improving that... ;)
Strahan had 67 sacks, Reggie White had 62 sacks, Bruce Smith had 61 sacks, Kevin Greene had 60 sacks...
So production from the early 30s to the mid-30s for these pass rushers like Miller is more than evident.
I would give this a long, long look...
Absolutely not. Miller is not at all the same type as the names you mentioned. Those were guys who relied on quick twitch and had tremendous ability and raw physical power. Miller is smaller and compact with good strength but is more about fluidity and speed. Those two attributes will be hit hard as he ages. He will put up sacks for a few years to come but he will decline hard unless he decides to take a Freeney route and become a pass rush specialist to extend his career.
Absolutely not. Miller is not at all the same type as the names you mentioned. Those were guys who relied on quick twitch and had tremendous ability and raw physical power. Miller is smaller and compact with good strength but is more about fluidity and speed. Those two attributes will be hit hard as he ages. He will put up sacks for a few years to come but he will decline hard unless he decides to take a Freeney route and become a pass rush specialist to extend his career.
Miller averages 13 sacks per year over his 8 years in the league. He's coming off another highly productive year with 14 sacks and another 4 forced fumbles.
If we get 80% of that production, that's still 10+ sacks per year. And there will be the pressures that add up to. The force multiplier impact can't be overlooked either - he's going to draw a lot of attention and create more opportunities for other players.
I'm not completely sold on the idea. I just don't think it's an easy No.
I see manning as a fort holder so the foundation can be established....it's not about the W/L yet, it's about not letting any team score easily, shutinh people down and building a great run OL.
pick with the shape our roster is in, for an older, albeit highly productive player, would be a VERY Redskins-like move. They neglected building a team for Snyders first 15 years as owner. They constantly signed big name FA's only to have them fade off into the sunset as the rest of the team around them fell apart.
It makes no sense to go out and get him when we have a lot of building to do. We turned over most of our roster just this year. We are in flux.
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
So with an expected salary cap of $190M, basically 9% of that.
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
Nope. You make this move when you're much closer than we are. Not when you're trying to rebuild your football team. Dealing away a pick as high as 6 overall kills a great opportunity to add another top flight player to the roster on a rookie deal - which is what we need a lot more of here and how you turn a failing team around.
Anyone would give up #6 overall for the right to pay him 3 x $18.
But I’d swap #6 for #10 and give them the rights to Landon Collins. That’s about it though. And that’s probably not enough for them unless they’re really itching to lean into a rebuild and accelerate his cap hit into 2019
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
Never said that. I am just posting the info that is relevant.
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
Never said that. I am just posting the info that is relevant.
Gotcha. Somehow I interpreted the “what would matter” as an endorsement. My bad.
We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe. We’re talking here about the 6th OVERALL pick in the draft. huge difference
We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe. We’re talking here about the 6th OVERALL pick in the draft. huge difference
At the time that made some level of sense. Who knew Gonzalez had 5 more all pro years in him?
The 6th overall pick is super valuable right now, but once we draft a player a lot of times the value goes down.
That's not ancient, but when you use a 6th overall pick, you're hoping to get a 22 year old version of a Von Miller with that pick. I understand that Von is a sure thing (and a future HOFer), and the draft is a gamble, and part of me is thinking that it would be stupid not to make that trade, but I just think that #6 overall is too valuable for a 30 year old non-QB.
If we traded down, got extra pick compensation, and they would still take our first rounder for him, somewhere in the back end of the first round, and we got the extra picks...that's a different story.
...when you are a legitimate contender.
Giants are neither legit or a contender.
Trading that pick for Miller defeats the purpose.
Of course there is a risk the Giants do not draft a player like Miller (at whatever position, relatively speaking).
But at the same time, Miller is approaching 30.
He's someone I'd consider, but not for pick #6.
He is not like Kahlil Mack.
Why do you think the Broncos are trying to trade him?
They know they need to rebuild and it's going to take a few years......when Miller will be probably done.
Combine that with their ball control offense and you might be looking at a title.
So production from the early 30s to the mid-30s for these pass rushers like Miller is more than evident.
I would give this a long, long look...
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
...when you are a legitimate contender.
Giants are neither legit or a contender.
Not advocating for it, but nobody saw the Bears as contenders when they traded for Mack.
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
No, I cited great players as comparative points.
Quote:
...when you are a legitimate contender.
Giants are neither legit or a contender.
Not advocating for it, but nobody saw the Bears as contenders when they traded for Mack.
Mack was 27, arguably the best in the business and would have been worth our number 1 at the least. Not Miller, not at 30. Not anymore.
12 - Green Bay. I think if Denver offers Von Miller for the 12th pick, given Aaron Rodgers is 35, Green Bay runs and takes the deal. That gives their defense a huge jolt and allows them to focus the rest of the draft on weapons for Rodgers.
Detroit at 8 might be interested but I doubt it. Nobody else in the top 12 has the luxury to add Von Miller for their pick.
Quote:
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?
Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
No, I cited great players as comparative points.
Quote:
Regardless, would you assume a huge contract for a guy who’s had some injuries, will be 30 in 2 months and most importantly give up the 6th overall pick for?
I would have traded for a 27 year-old Khalil Mack as he’s arguably the best in the game. Not Miller at this point in time
No, I cited great players as comparative points.
Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
Fair enough. Would you give up the overall 6th for the present day Miller, even if you’re not considered a Giants’ fan? :)
Like I said, I'd give it a long look. Consistently good pass rushers are very hard to find. This guy is a Hall of Famer. Do you think we can hook a HoF caliber player at #?
I read all week long from your ilk how this season was derailed because of the D. Well, an acquisition like this would certainly go a long way to improving that... ;)
So production from the early 30s to the mid-30s for these pass rushers like Miller is more than evident.
I would give this a long, long look...
Absolutely not. Miller is not at all the same type as the names you mentioned. Those were guys who relied on quick twitch and had tremendous ability and raw physical power. Miller is smaller and compact with good strength but is more about fluidity and speed. Those two attributes will be hit hard as he ages. He will put up sacks for a few years to come but he will decline hard unless he decides to take a Freeney route and become a pass rush specialist to extend his career.
We don't have a high 1st? Only five teams have higher 1sts.
If we are very careful, we may draft the once in a blue moon pass rushing DT and _also_ a legit olb playmaking pass rusher.
You do that, you instantly improve the production of Hill, wynn, Macintosh, etc etc and the DBs your about to draft.
Absolutely not. Miller is not at all the same type as the names you mentioned. Those were guys who relied on quick twitch and had tremendous ability and raw physical power. Miller is smaller and compact with good strength but is more about fluidity and speed. Those two attributes will be hit hard as he ages. He will put up sacks for a few years to come but he will decline hard unless he decides to take a Freeney route and become a pass rush specialist to extend his career.
Miller averages 13 sacks per year over his 8 years in the league. He's coming off another highly productive year with 14 sacks and another 4 forced fumbles.
If we get 80% of that production, that's still 10+ sacks per year. And there will be the pressures that add up to. The force multiplier impact can't be overlooked either - he's going to draw a lot of attention and create more opportunities for other players.
I'm not completely sold on the idea. I just don't think it's an easy No.
I'd maybe get Carter reps, with his speed, in zone pass defending, see if he can start to get in those zones and knock shiznit down with regularity.
Drafting additional blue chipper DL and OLB players may help you justify the time cost.
I see manning as a fort holder so the foundation can be established....it's not about the W/L yet, it's about not letting any team score easily, shutinh people down and building a great run OL.
It makes no sense to go out and get him when we have a lot of building to do. We turned over most of our roster just this year. We are in flux.
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Apparently not because I wouldn’t deal our 6th for miller. Maybe 3 years ago but not anymore.
Gah! Can I retract? Yes a bear Does shit in the woods.
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
So with an expected salary cap of $190M, basically 9% of that.
Quote:
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
Those pieces really started accumulating in 03/04/05.
I'd rather bet on getting a Osi or Tuck, and not cross my fingers on a Strahan.
But I’d swap #6 for #10 and give them the rights to Landon Collins. That’s about it though. And that’s probably not enough for them unless they’re really itching to lean into a rebuild and accelerate his cap hit into 2019
Quote:
In comment 14247694 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
Never said that. I am just posting the info that is relevant.
Quote:
In comment 14247722 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14247694 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
2019: Cap #: $25.1 million....Dead Cap#: $28.5 million
2020: Cap#: $25.6 million....Dead Cap#: 11.86 million
2021: Cap$: 22.2 million....Dead Cap#: 4.2 million
Plus our 6th overall pick?
None of that would matter to the team trading for him. What would matter would be his base salaries of 17, 17.5, and 17.5 for the next three years plus a half a mil workout bonus each year as well.
Noted. But STILL a lot for a 30 year-old who has had injury issues on and off through the years? Even if he’s considered healthy at present, you’re willing to give up the 6th overall pick?
Never said that. I am just posting the info that is relevant.
Gotcha. Somehow I interpreted the “what would matter” as an endorsement. My bad.
We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe. We’re talking here about the 6th OVERALL pick in the draft. huge difference
Quote:
wanted Gonzalez back in 2009......
We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe. We’re talking here about the 6th OVERALL pick in the draft. huge difference
At the time that made some level of sense. Who knew Gonzalez had 5 more all pro years in him?
Big Blue '56 : 7:32 am : link : reply
In comment 14247911 Doomster said:
Quote:
wanted Gonzalez back in 2009......
We offered, iirc a 3rd ROUND pick. They wanted a second ROUND pick I believe.