Does anyone get the feeling that the Giants want 10 back but

In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said:

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bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO.

I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?

You think all contract talks are formal and that the whole world has to be put on notice that they're going to happen?

In comment 14248139 bc4life said:

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Everyone's been planning for this moment - Owners, DG, Shurmur, Eli, his agent - and I'm sure a few other teams in the league.

Do you actually believe anything you just wrote?

With all due respect, I can't believe you just wrote that with a straight face. Especially after the debacle in 2017 and the off-season in 2018.

worth a half a billion - all that money on the table yeah I do.

I'm sure bw knows better , he always does - but yeah I do.

In comment 14248145 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said: Quote: bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO. I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?

If Eli is gone then the potential replacements are underwhelming at best. They could bring in a Ryan Fitzpatrick type or go with a guy like RG3, Bradford, etc. That should be enough to secure the Giants a top 5 pick.

More be the end of the world as long as it’s for a something like 5-10 million. Especially if theybdeaft a QB this year. Why Couldn’t he be the back up. Lessens the untenable 23 million and can be a good locker room guy.

Maybe they like to want him Looking over the kids shoulder but it’s better than the alteranative. Sure Shurmur could make it work w a Foles but they arent winning much w a guy like that and he’d probably want more than one year. Think there’s a way to make this work. But Eli will have to be realistic

In comment 14248145 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said: Quote: bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO. I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?

You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either.

I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.

In comment 14248014 M.S. said:

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...by having Eli Manning back for one more year AT A REDUCED salary, and maybe with a little luck put up a respectable 8-8 / 9-7 record, and then allow our future HOF QB to sail into the sunset. And if he is very lucky, Gettleman somehow, someway secures the services of a future franchise QB who sits and learns for a year with Eli at the helm The scenarios Gettleman wants to avoid: (1) Cutting Eli and then going 4-12; (2) Keeping Eli AT CURRENT SALARY and going 8-8; (3) Cutting Eli and brining in a short-term QB solution who has a mediocre season; Jerry Reese created a gigantic, dark box with 15 doors, but only one of them will lead the Giants out of their current misery. Dave Gettleman needs to find that ONE door! Good Luck!

Eli setting sail into the sunset with a respectable record should not factor into the Giants planning.

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Why wouldn't we take Gettleman at his word? He's proven not be a poker player with his thoughts and emotions. He's admitted as much - what you see and hear it what you get.

Seems like you only take certain words and not really what he says.

You've concocted an entire conspiratorial scenario where Gettleman was hired on a mandate to usher eli to another SB run and to build around him. That they passed on a QB because of a mandate, ignoring Gettleman's words that he thought Barkley was one of the best players he ever scouted.

And when Gettleman said he has a plan for the team or when he said that certain players were brought here to improve the attitude and culture, you scoff at those words.

You can't have it both ways, but then again, when you believe wild conspiracy theories I guess anything is on the table.

In comment 14248023 giantsFC said:

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Team will waste a 1st round pick this year and draft a qb from this mediocre class. Then miss out on an actual franchise qb from next years draft. Manning for another year, as this defense is about 5 players short of being good, then draft the qb next year. Or sign foles, Manning is gone, and do above as well. No vet qb available is really much of an upgrade (especially at the price they would command) over Manning. Unless Carr gets released and even he is more like a Kerry Collins then a elite.

2017 was supposedly a mediocre year for QBs. Thus far it is
Looking damn good. Let’s wait and see before saying there are no
QBs in this draft.

In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:

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In comment 14248145 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said: Quote: bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO. I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen? You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either. I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.

If management thought having a good draft and and free angency is a possibility this year, why not commit to Eli then?

that Gettleman doesn't have a plan? You might not like his plan or disagree with it but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Does anyone honestly think that Gettleman just planned on 37 year old Eli being here and playing well for several seasons without any other contingency plans? Is the earth flat or round?

In comment 14248060 giantstock said:

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In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said: Quote: .....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan. You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements?

Exactly!

In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:

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You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either. I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.

I never said I was ok with tanking. Looking back in a few years I will say it was a good thing that the Giants ended up with one of the top QB's in the draft but I wasn't suggesting that management just throw in the towel for 2019. The truth is there aren't many good answers at the QB position especially if Eli retires or leaves. The Giants will be forced to sign a stopgap type. The Giants will have a difficult time competing in that scenario.

In comment 14248060 giantstock said:

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In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said: Quote: .....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan. You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements?

First, all the other teams are making moves to improve year after year as well. You're also assuming that the draft picks won't bust, and that we'll enjoy relative good health. The Giants, all things considered, were a 5 win team with a pretty healthy roster for most of the season.

Next year, who knows? We lose a couple of key starters to IR early and it's a wasted year. I'm not assuming anything a year away. All I know is that the Giants pick in 2020 will be somewhere between 1-32, and all outcomes are possible. Sure, the earliest and latest picks are more unlikely, but you can't rule anything out.

anywhere else either. And I take him at his word he doesn't want to go anywhere either. This gives Lauletta and whoever they draft another year to learn. This also give them another year to evaluate Lauletta and or possibly pick up a FA the end of next year. Only other option I see is Bridgewater where he played for Shurmur before. But Shurmur convinced me and I think he will try to convince DG if he isn't convinced already that he wants Eli back for one more year. I'm hoping it will be a cap friendly deal maybe with incentives. Free up some money and build that D up and tweak the Oline with a C and RG.

In comment 14248193 allstarjim said:

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In comment 14248060 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said: Quote: .....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan. You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements? First, all the other teams are making moves to improve year after year as well. You're also assuming that the draft picks won't bust, and that we'll enjoy relative good health. The Giants, all things considered, were a 5 win team with a pretty healthy roster for most of the season. Next year, who knows? We lose a couple of key starters to IR early and it's a wasted year. I'm not assuming anything a year away. All I know is that the Giants pick in 2020 will be somewhere between 1-32, and all outcomes are possible. Sure, the earliest and latest picks are more unlikely, but you can't rule anything out.

You're right. The Giants were blessed this season in terms of health. If Barkley goes on IR at any point next season the Giants won't have to trade up for a QB because they will be picking in the top 3.

In comment 14248194 Blue21 said:

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anywhere else either. And I take him at his word he doesn't want to go anywhere either. This gives Lauletta and whoever they draft another year to learn. This also give them another year to evaluate Lauletta and or possibly pick up a FA the end of next year. Only other option I see is Bridgewater where he played for Shurmur before. But Shurmur convinced me and I think he will try to convince DG if he isn't convinced already that he wants Eli back for one more year. I'm hoping it will be a cap friendly deal maybe with incentives. Free up some money and build that D up and tweak the Oline with a C and RG.

I think that is what will happen. You don't have a "brutally honest" conversation unless there is some bad news. In this case, it makes sense that the bad news was a pay cut. Eli may have "taken him to the low post" by pointing out what a mess the OL was at the beginning of the year. I hope this is how it plays out. The extra money could be used on OL. Get defense in the draft.

Go Terps and bw have been saying it since pretty much as soon as Gettleman was hired:

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How can anyone truly believe Jay on the Island : 12:57 pm : link : reply that Gettleman doesn't have a plan? You might not like his plan or disagree with it but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Does anyone honestly think that Gettleman just planned on 37 year old Eli being here and playing well for several seasons without any other contingency plans? Is the earth flat or round?

So, you can either surmise they are doing it just to be right, or just out of frustration, but whatever it is - it isn't out of logic.

Hell, the way Gettleman purged the team, you'd even have to say the plan was to change the culture and weed out the weak players and malcontents from the previous regime. And while that plan can be disagreed with as a way to go about team building, there should be absolutely no argument that that plan has been executed.

I don't think Gettleman's some incompetent fool. I do think Gettleman thought Eli had some better ball in him than he showed this year and that the team could compete with Eli (and that DG had the confidence that he could get the team there quickly). I think the 1-7 start may have made DG realize that this is unlikely and that the team was further away than he thought when he took the job.

So I do think the plan may have changed a bit from where we were going into the season.

I also don't think there's an obvious plan on the QB front. There are so many issues right now that I think that's fine - I suspect we'll have at least another year or two of high draft picks and hopefully find a solution soon.

In comment 14247968 joeinpa said:

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If they sign a FA like Foles, he s gone.

Personally, I would not bet on Foles, even with quarterback-whisperer Shurmur as HC. But I would rather see Foles starting this year than Lauletta.

We’re not winning shit this year. Might as well build the rest of the roster and draft a potential franchise QB this year or next. If he’s there this year, take him. If not, with only a cheap option at QB, it’s unlikely we’ll win many games and likely we’ll get a top pick in 2020 for a QB then.

In comment 14248312 BrettNYG10 said:

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I also don't think there's an obvious plan on the QB front. There are so many issues right now that I think that's fine - I suspect we'll have at least another year or two of high draft picks and hopefully find a solution soon.

Same here. I don't think there was no plan, just not a very good one - and I'm not sure they're sticking to the same plan (which can be viewed positively or negatively).

I think a lot of people thought the transition from Eli to the next QB was going to be clean, and that was a mistake. I think our FO believed that as well. And now - it doesn't look like there's much of a plan on that front, at least in the immediate term. It really does seem like it's 'hey, 2020 isn't that far off'.

In comment 14248161 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Seems like you only take certain words and not really what he says. You've concocted an entire conspiratorial scenario where Gettleman was hired on a mandate to usher eli to another SB run and to build around him. That they passed on a QB because of a mandate, ignoring Gettleman's words that he thought Barkley was one of the best players he ever scouted. And when Gettleman said he has a plan for the team or when he said that certain players were brought here to improve the attitude and culture, you scoff at those words. You can't have it both ways, but then again, when you believe wild conspiracy theories I guess anything is on the table.

Here are Gettleman's words from his press conference in this question/answer exchange:

[i}Q: Are you committed to having Eli back next year?

A: Here’s what I’m committed to do. I’m committed to making the best decision in the interest of the New York Football Giants. That’s what I’m committed to do. We’re in the evaluation process. I know that you guys want answers now, but very frankly, I didn’t come in yesterday. I’ve got to do what I do, which is get in my office and watch film.... [/i]

Seems to be a fairly easy interpretation - there is no plan yet for QB. And that's all I said. If we had drafted a QB last April, we would be able to start the smooth transition from Eli to his successor. Instead, this is still messy trying to solve for X.

In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:

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You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either. I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.

I was just extrapolating out how to make Jay's plan work to draft one of the top QBs in 2020. Unless we were to put together a massive package to draft up, the best way to get there is to tank 2019.

In comment 14248179 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 14248155 Eman11 said: Quote: You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either. I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year. I never said I was ok with tanking. Looking back in a few years I will say it was a good thing that the Giants ended up with one of the top QB's in the draft but I wasn't suggesting that management just throw in the towel for 2019. The truth is there aren't many good answers at the QB position especially if Eli retires or leaves. The Giants will be forced to sign a stopgap type. The Giants will have a difficult time competing in that scenario.

Sorry Jay, I was responding to bw and included your post by mistake in the quote.

to whatever is considered the future core and build it up from there. If when you break it down, it happens to get you a better pick then it only accelerates what you are trying to do.

"Kind of" restructuring is just wasting time and playing games...

In comment 14248327 TD said:

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We’re not winning shit this year. Might as well build the rest of the roster and draft a potential franchise QB this year or next. If he’s there this year, take him. If not, with only a cheap option at QB, it’s unlikely we’ll win many games and likely we’ll get a top pick in 2020 for a QB then.

Makes sense.

would they win?

In comment 14248647 xman said:

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would they win?

Well considering he had a great game against the Texans with a shit OL early in the year, I'd say yes he would do it again behind the Colts OL.

I also think he'd give Dallas a better chance than with Dak.

In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply don’t want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but it’s all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And it’s just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. I’m nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli he’s going to quit in my view.

before the draft due to money? We may not get a chance to draft a good QB this year or next year, The chance was last year. With all our holes on the roster having the QB decided would have made for a much more optimistic outlook. We are crossing fingers and rubbing rabbits feet at this point. Eli is not leading us to any playoff glory. Inept front office.

please make it stop!!

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Did Mara tie the hands of DG Ike#88 : 7:58 pm : link : reply before the draft due to money?

Over money? We are right up against the cap!

so tying up his two years plus the #2 pick money at QB was not going to cut it. Barkley's talent level made it easy to keep #10 and here we are still looking for a QB.

shit.

That might be the worst take on the situation yet.

without the graphics. That's how bad most of these comments are.

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I’ll take this opinion to my grave and never waver djm : 7:33 pm : link In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply don’t want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but it’s all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And it’s just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. I’m nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli he’s going to quit in my view.

Seriously, who the F really cares if Eli 'quits'. You just saw what we are with Eli and arguably the best roster of skill position players in the league. 5-11 and 3-13. That's who fucking Eli is now.

Literally anyone else we plug in there next year after Eli quits can do 5-11 and 3-13. At 1/4 the cost. And maybe a QB with a dimension of escapability makes #13 and #26 that much more dangerous.

What is the downside of Eli quitting? 5-11 or 3-13? Been there, done that. At 38 with obvious limitations that defenses exploit on a week to week basis the change is coming and there is literally no downside to Eli quitting if he doesn't take a major paycut. Someone in the 'few more years' crowd please enlighten me as to what you are afraid of in terms of moving on from bottom 5 QB play at high salary? Trying to be civil, please do the same.

In comment 14248891 BlueManFu said:

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Quote: I’ll take this opinion to my grave and never waver djm : 7:33 pm : link In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply don’t want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but it’s all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And it’s just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. I’m nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli he’s going to quit in my view. Seriously, who the F really cares if Eli 'quits'. You just saw what we are with Eli and arguably the best roster of skill position players in the league. 5-11 and 3-13. That's who fucking Eli is now. ... Trying to be civil, please do the same.

Sounds legit. Ask for people to be civil, but start their post with "who the F really cares".

I didn't direct an obscenity at anyone on that side of the argument, its simply a matter of emphasis...like who cares if he quits? Things are going well with him at QB and we're going to regret not moving on? Please explain what there is to lose after witnessing the past few seasons.

but you lead off your post with the implied F bomb. And then for good measure, it's not just Eli Manning, but Fucking Eli Manning.

Get lost, child.

clearly diver down doesn't want to / is unable to debate the facts. anyone else? 19 year long season ticket holder here, lifelong fan. not looking to stir shit, just trying to understand the side that has so much trepidation in going in another direction. the last two seasons were the 'let's stick with Eli' experiment seasons, and obviously they have failed miserably. things are going to magically reverse course and we should just trot the old guy out there for another season with #13 and #26 in their primes?

You've referred to a "few more years" crowd of which the membership is extremely limited, if not non-existent.

So what do you really expect to be debated?

Cut Eli, go cheap at QB this year and draft a top QB this year or next
TD : 3:15 pm : link : reply
We’re not winning shit this year. Might as well build the rest of the roster and draft a potential franchise QB this year or next. If he’s there this year, take him. If not, with only a cheap option at QB, it’s unlikely we’ll win many games and likely we’ll get a top pick in 2020 for a QB then.


if that isn't the definition of tanking, I don't know what is.....and what about all this talk this year of playing to win games to have a winning attitude? Then we wasted 5 wins....

Who are the constants? The owners, the fans, Zak DeOssie and Eli Manning. In fairness, Zak missed four games in 2015, and Eli was benched for one in 2017. The Maras are here to stay. Maybe the Giants should swap fan bases with the Jets. The results couldn’t be much worse.

and a bad offensive line. Deteriorating defense - those were constants too.

In comment 14248891 BlueManFu said:

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Quote: I’ll take this opinion to my grave and never waver djm : 7:33 pm : link In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply don’t want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but it’s all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And it’s just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. I’m nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli he’s going to quit in my view. Seriously, who the F really cares if Eli 'quits'. You just saw what we are with Eli and arguably the best roster of skill position players in the league. 5-11 and 3-13. That's who fucking Eli is now. Literally anyone else we plug in there next year after Eli quits can do 5-11 and 3-13. At 1/4 the cost. And maybe a QB with a dimension of escapability makes #13 and #26 that much more dangerous. What is the downside of Eli quitting? 5-11 or 3-13? Been there, done that. At 38 with obvious limitations that defenses exploit on a week to week basis the change is coming and there is literally no downside to Eli quitting if he doesn't take a major paycut. Someone in the 'few more years' crowd please enlighten me as to what you are afraid of in terms of moving on from bottom 5 QB play at high salary? Trying to be civil, please do the same.

Who said I was mad if Eli quit? I said I felt that if the giants low ball Eli it’s just their way of saying they want to move on. I’m not sure what I “want” to see this offseason I just know I want to win.

Just save me the bullshit that the giants wanted Eli back if the paycut comes with it. That’s a load of PR crap.

bc4life said:

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and a bad offensive line. Deteriorating defense - those were constants too.

True. Plenty of new faces though.:o)

Not saying Eli has been the problem, just that he hasn’t been the solution. And with each passing year, the chances of him being an important part of the solution diminish. As I’ve said repeatedly, I’d love to see him finish his career with an Elway-style flourish; but the team just isn’t there, aside from the Davis/Barkley parallel.

isn't on the roster - so it will be interesting to see what their plan is.

an overall team health in the bottom of the league has been a constant too.

The one year that they weren't lower than 20th? 2016

In comment 14248164 Boy Cord said:

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In comment 14248023 giantsFC said: Quote: Team will waste a 1st round pick this year and draft a qb from this mediocre class. Then miss out on an actual franchise qb from next years draft. Manning for another year, as this defense is about 5 players short of being good, then draft the qb next year. Or sign foles, Manning is gone, and do above as well. No vet qb available is really much of an upgrade (especially at the price they would command) over Manning. Unless Carr gets released and even he is more like a Kerry Collins then a elite. 2017 was supposedly a mediocre year for QBs. Thus far it is Looking damn good. Let’s wait and see before saying there are no QBs in this draft.

Good point.