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Does anyone get the feeling that the Giants want 10 back but

JoeyBigBlue : 1/5/2019 8:42 am
not at the 23 million cap number? Thatís the message I got from Gettleman in the press conference. Seems like they were OK with his performance this season, but they know they need to upgrade the position. They are ready to move on if he doesnít rework his contract.
I doní t know Joey  
joeinpa : 1/5/2019 8:47 am : link
I think if they find what they believe to be a better option, they are ready to move on.

The question remains, what is that better option. If they draft a quarterback then probably Eli stays to finish his contract. If they sign a FA like Foles, he s gone.

Donít think they know yet.
Not saying we will, but if Giants like and pick a QB in 2019  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 8:52 am : link
I would want him playing at some part in year 1.

So not only is Eli's salary/bonus too much for a full season of his play, it would be ridiculous for a half season.

DG has to do his players rankings (and other existing options) and figure out if he wants to commit to Eli's roster bonus prior to the draft.

I wouldn't...
Mara probably does but I think heíll defer to DG/The Shurminator  
The_Boss : 1/5/2019 8:56 am : link
I donít think those 2 know yet.
I think the article posted in sat reading is correct  
superspynyg : 1/5/2019 9:01 am : link
The Giants will convert some of the 17 mil to incentives and he will be back. 2 mil for reaching the superbowl, 1 mil for playoffs etc..

Look for his base next season to be 13-14 with 3-4 mil in incentives.

Or he will retire. Mark my words Eli will not wear any other jersey but a Giants.
That train has sailed  
GiantsUA : 1/5/2019 9:02 am : link
.
Something likely to happen before 3/17  
Eli Wilson : 1/5/2019 9:02 am : link
when his $5million roster bonus is due.

I wouldn't be surprised if they extended him 1 year and reduced the cap hit this year doing so.

Name all the QB's  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 9:03 am : link
that have taken pay cuts to "help" their teams out?
RE: I think the article posted in sat reading is correct  
Matt M. : 1/5/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14247978 superspynyg said:
Quote:
The Giants will convert some of the 17 mil to incentives and he will be back. 2 mil for reaching the superbowl, 1 mil for playoffs etc..

Look for his base next season to be 13-14 with 3-4 mil in incentives.

Or he will retire. Mark my words Eli will not wear any other jersey but a Giants.
I don't believe the CBA allows a deal like that. Re-working a deal reduces salary, but not the total deal. It gets converted to guaranteed money and then amortized over an extension.
What the hell kind of incentives  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 9:09 am : link
are making the SB/playoffs?

Eli could have a great season, and the team still might not make the playoffs(I know that's a reach).....

You are either paying him 17M, or you are cutting him or trying to trade him(maybe DG talked about who he would be willing to go to if Eli waved the no trade clause).....
he wouldn't be  
fkap : 1/5/2019 9:11 am : link
"helping the team out". He would be reworking a contract to be mutually beneficial, or he would be cut, and he would likely make a lot less.
I agree with Matt M.  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 9:11 am : link
the only way they can "manipulate money", is if they extend him to make changes in the contract...
Which I believe Peyton did,  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 9:14 am : link
on his last 2 year contract....
RE: Which I believe Peyton did,  
superspynyg : 1/5/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14247991 Doomster said:
Quote:
on his last 2 year contract....


Yup Peyton Did. Playoffs are reachable Super Bowl will be the long shot unreachable one.
Yep ,,  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 9:21 am : link
Its been said many times the Giants can't go into next season with Eli's $23M cap hit. Its a complicated issue when you consider:
- There is no one on the roster to replace Eli
- Cutting him and signing one of the FAs may be too expensive, particularly when you factor in the $6.2M of dead cap that comes with it
- None of the FA QBs appear to be the franchise type guy the team needs
- This year's draft class is very weak at QB

As DG has stated, you get this wrong and the team will be in QB hell for years to come
RE: I agree with Matt M.  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14247988 Doomster said:
Quote:
the only way they can "manipulate money", is if they extend him to make changes in the contract...
Didn't Tom Brady take a couple of salary cuts so that the Pats would have the cap space they needed?
Pay Cut  
Geno 78 : 1/5/2019 9:55 am : link
Brady restructured his contract and lost 5 million this year because he didn't reach the goals.
No  
rocco8112 : 1/5/2019 9:55 am : link
.
Maybe Gettleman wants to thread the eye of the needle...  
M.S. : 1/5/2019 9:59 am : link

...by having Eli Manning back for one more year AT A REDUCED salary, and maybe with a little luck put up a respectable 8-8 / 9-7 record, and then allow our future HOF QB to sail into the sunset.

And if he is very lucky, Gettleman somehow, someway secures the services of a future franchise QB who sits and learns for a year with Eli at the helm

The scenarios Gettleman wants to avoid:

(1) Cutting Eli and then going 4-12;
(2) Keeping Eli AT CURRENT SALARY and going 8-8;
(3) Cutting Eli and brining in a short-term QB solution who has a mediocre season;

Jerry Reese created a gigantic, dark box with 15 doors, but only one of them will lead the Giants out of their current misery. Dave Gettleman needs to find that ONE door!

Good Luck!
kick the can  
Hilary : 1/5/2019 10:06 am : link
Eli is the best QB option for 2019.
I would not be in favor of a re worked contract that moves a portion of his salary into 2020 and 2021.Better to take the total hit this year.

It is hard for a fan to know what Eli wants.Possible he would reduce contract from 23 million to 18 or 19 million with more based on incentives in return for work within the organization when his playing days are over.Eli would be a great asset for PR and for teaching young players what it is to be a professional
In typical modern giants fashion  
giantsFC : 1/5/2019 10:08 am : link
Team will waste a 1st round pick this year and draft a qb from this mediocre class. Then miss out on an actual franchise qb from next years draft.

Manning for another year, as this defense is about 5 players short of being good, then draft the qb next year.

Or sign foles, Manning is gone, and do above as well.

No vet qb available is really much of an upgrade (especially at the price they would command) over Manning. Unless Carr gets released and even he is more like a Kerry Collins then a elite.



Eli requested the meeting with DG  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/5/2019 10:18 am : link
and took him down low to the post.

This is definitely a 2 way street, its not just DG asking ELi for something (like a paycut which I doubt). Eli is asking for the team to show him something, what that is we can only speculate.

I would guess it's about a win now scenario that doesn't include drafting a QB.

RE: Something likely to happen before 3/17  
Alan in Toledo : 1/5/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14247980 Eli Wilson said:
Quote:
when his $5million roster bonus is due.

I wouldn't be surprised if they extended him 1 year and reduced the cap hit this year doing so.


Most reasonable of all the possibilities.
And DG's comment about doing whats best for the Giants  
Jim in Forest Hills : 1/5/2019 10:26 am : link
insinuates he would take a QB if appropriate, but we'll see if the right one is available
No, not really  
ron mexico : 1/5/2019 10:26 am : link
I think he is on the team with his current deal or not.

I think Eli is too untouchable for a pay cut.
RE: Pay Cut  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 10:27 am : link
In comment 14248010 Geno 78 said:
Quote:
Brady restructured his contract and lost 5 million this year because he didn't reach the goals.
True, in 2018 he took a cut in salary and replaced it with performance bonus that were all met. He took a pay cut in 2012 to clear $7M in cap space for the team. And he has also restructured a few times to lower his cap hit.
RE: RE: Something likely to happen before 3/17  
ron mexico : 1/5/2019 10:28 am : link
In comment 14248033 Alan in Toledo said:
Quote:
In comment 14247980 Eli Wilson said:


Quote:


when his $5million roster bonus is due.

I wouldn't be surprised if they extended him 1 year and reduced the cap hit this year doing so.




Most reasonable of all the possibilities.


In my view that only works if his real money goes down as well and doesn't just shift the cap hit from one year to the next. But as I stated in my last post, I don't think they touch his contract.
RE: No, not really  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14248037 ron mexico said:
Quote:
I think he is on the team with his current deal or not.

I think Eli is too untouchable for a pay cut.
He does appear to have a slightly stronger hand than DG. Will he take one for the team?
RE: RE: Pay Cut  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14248038 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14248010 Geno 78 said:


Quote:


Brady restructured his contract and lost 5 million this year because he didn't reach the goals.

True, in 2018 he took a cut in salary and replaced it with performance bonus that were all met. He took a pay cut in 2012 to clear $7M in cap space for the team. And he has also restructured a few times to lower his cap hit.
typo - make that performance bonus that "were not all met"
Itís both cap hit and real dollars  
Sammo85 : 1/5/2019 10:36 am : link
Eli needs to agree and Giants need to force him to realize his cap hit will prevent improving the team. He also isnít worth the real dollars heís slated to make. He needs to take a healthy cut there also.

Heís made an obscene amount of money as QB so letís not shed tears or cry foul for Eli. If he refuses to, I would support the Giants cutting him and I wouldnít knock Eli for not doing it on his own.

Giants can play hardball. I donít agree with people who say Giants have no leverage. Theyíre a crappy team with Eli they can be a crappy team without him. Iíd rather they start making the changes now including planning and cap clearing or setting the decks for a new future at QB.
Extend Eli for another year  
since1925 : 1/5/2019 10:38 am : link
Give him 6 million, 3 mil bonus and 3 mil salary in 2020.

That knocks his cap hit for 2019 to about 14.5 million so the NYG get 8.5 million cap relief in 2019.

Keep him in 2020 and his cap hit for 2020 would be about 13 million. Cut him an his cap number is 10 mil.

I am a little fuzzy on these numbers - and Eli may not go for it -- but it makes sense for both sides.

And if .... Eli has a suberb 2019, you can adjust slightly up by adding another year without killing the cap.



RE: RE: No, not really  
Sammo85 : 1/5/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14248042 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14248037 ron mexico said:


Quote:


I think he is on the team with his current deal or not.

I think Eli is too untouchable for a pay cut.

He does appear to have a slightly stronger hand than DG. Will he take one for the team?


How do? Heís a 38 yr old QB in decline on a poor team. If this was a team in contention and he was playing at high level youíd be right. Giants have lots of cover now to cut him outright without the outcry that happened from the benching.

Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/5/2019 10:41 am : link
.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.
RE: RE: RE: No, not really  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14248051 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
In comment 14248042 Beer Man said:


Quote:


In comment 14248037 ron mexico said:


Quote:


I think he is on the team with his current deal or not.

I think Eli is too untouchable for a pay cut.

He does appear to have a slightly stronger hand than DG. Will he take one for the team?



How do? Heís a 38 yr old QB in decline on a poor team. If this was a team in contention and he was playing at high level youíd be right. Giants have lots of cover now to cut him outright without the outcry that happened from the benching.
I said it earlier in the thread, but the following works in Eli's favor:

- There is no one on the roster to replace Eli
- Cutting him and signing one of the FAs may be too expensive, particularly when you factor in the $6.2M of dead cap that comes with it
- None of the FA QBs appear to be the franchise type guy the team needs
- This year's draft class is very weak at QB

Next year should be a very different story as the 2020 QB draft class is shaping up to be something that could be very deep.
How about 15 mil this year and 10 next.  
edavisiii : 1/5/2019 10:51 am : link
10 in signing bonu,s 10m is salary next year and 5M the following year. Only 5 and 2.5 guaranteed with the rest in incentives. Have him play this year and be on the quad for 2020 when the draft looks great. He says he wants to always play which is why he is a warrior but not 1 QB, even Gino, has had anything bad to say about him as a teammate.
RE: Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.

Bomb for Fromm!
RE: Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
giantstock : 1/5/2019 10:57 am : link
In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said:
Quote:
.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.


You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements?
RE: RE: Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
Beer Man : 1/5/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14248059 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.


Bomb for Fromm!
Bustin for Justin
There is no way they donít want him back.  
BillT : 1/5/2019 11:08 am : link
There is really no other option. They may ask him to forgo his roster bonus. Along with similar cuts to OV and maybe Jenkins if theyíre keeping them. That would give them enough to try and get maybe two starters plus sign their own.
RE: Pay Cut  
Ssanders9816 : 1/5/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14248010 Geno 78 said:
Quote:
Brady restructured his contract and lost 5 million this year because he didn't reach the goals.


Bradyís wife also makes more than him. I can confidently say Abby does not.
RE: There is no way they donít want him back.  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14248070 BillT said:
Quote:
There is really no other option. They may ask him to forgo his roster bonus. Along with similar cuts to OV and maybe Jenkins if theyíre keeping them. That would give them enough to try and get maybe two starters plus sign their own.

I would be very surprised if Janoris Jenkins is cut. The Giants are very thin at CB already.
RE: RE: RE: RE: No, not really  
Sammo85 : 1/5/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14248056 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14248051 Sammo85 said:


Quote:


In comment 14248042 Beer Man said:


Quote:


In comment 14248037 ron mexico said:


Quote:


I think he is on the team with his current deal or not.

I think Eli is too untouchable for a pay cut.

He does appear to have a slightly stronger hand than DG. Will he take one for the team?



How do? Heís a 38 yr old QB in decline on a poor team. If this was a team in contention and he was playing at high level youíd be right. Giants have lots of cover now to cut him outright without the outcry that happened from the benching.


I said it earlier in the thread, but the following works in Eli's favor:

- There is no one on the roster to replace Eli
- Cutting him and signing one of the FAs may be too expensive, particularly when you factor in the $6.2M of dead cap that comes with it
- None of the FA QBs appear to be the franchise type guy the team needs
- This year's draft class is very weak at QB

Next year should be a very different story as the 2020 QB draft class is shaping up to be something that could be very deep.


Iím sorry but none of that is actual leverage for Eli when you look in the totality of the situation and assess the team and Eli. These as you mention are factors for Gettleman to consider but Eli has absolutely no leverage to force the Giants hand to his benefit. Giants can easily cut him and stink next year and be fine with it. Giants donít need Eli anymore. It sounds cold and heartless but heís really a non factor now and going forward.
RE: Not saying we will, but if Giants like and pick a QB in 2019  
micky : 1/5/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14247971 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
I would want him playing at some part in year 1.

So not only is Eli's salary/bonus too much for a full season of his play, it would be ridiculous for a half season.

DG has to do his players rankings (and other existing options) and figure out if he wants to commit to Eli's roster bonus prior to the draft.

I wouldn't...


Like a Nassib, Webb, or a Lauletta?
The Giants could very well decide that  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 11:17 am : link
they don't like their chances for next season with or without Eli. If Eli retires that should be enough to cement them as a top 5 team in the 2020 draft. Without Eli the only way they will be a good team is if the defense and OL drastically improve, they sign Foles who plays well as a sort of game manager, and Barkley stays healthy.
RE: Itís both cap hit and real dollars  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14248046 Sammo85 said:
Quote:
Eli needs to agree and Giants need to force him to realize his cap hit will prevent improving the team. He also isnít worth the real dollars heís slated to make. He needs to take a healthy cut there also.

Heís made an obscene amount of money as QB so letís not shed tears or cry foul for Eli. If he refuses to, I would support the Giants cutting him and I wouldnít knock Eli for not doing it on his own.

Giants can play hardball. I donít agree with people who say Giants have no leverage. Theyíre a crappy team with Eli they can be a crappy team without him. Iíd rather they start making the changes now including planning and cap clearing or setting the decks for a new future at QB.


Yes they are a crappy team with Eli. And keeping him around only extends the crappiness, not only for next year but also the year after since the next QB wonít have snaps under center to develop and move up the learning curve.

A path to nowhere...
RE: RE: I think the article posted in sat reading is correct  
shyster : 1/5/2019 11:25 am : link
In comment 14247985 Matt M. said:
Quote:


I don't believe the CBA allows a deal like that. Re-working a deal reduces salary, but not the total deal. It gets converted to guaranteed money and then amortized over an extension.


Article 4, Section 5, Sub-section d of the CBA provides as follows:

Quote:
In addition to any rights a Club may presently have under the NFL Player Contract, any Player Contract may be terminated if, in the Clubís opinion, the player
being terminated is anticipated to make less of a contribution to the Clubís ability to compete on the playing field than another player or players whom the Club intends to sign or attempt to sign, or another player or players who is or are already on the roster of such Club, and for whom the Club needs Room. This Subsection shall not affect any Club or Club Affiliateís obligation to pay a player any guaranteed consideration.


Note the final two words: "guaranteed consideration". The remaining $17M of Eli's contract is non-guaranteed consideration.

The plain meaning of this section is that the Giants are free to terminate Eli's existing contract with no further obligation and the two parties are then free to enter into a new contract, which can be for a different and lesser dollar amount.

I've attached a link to the CBA and invite anyone with a differing interpretation to cite a pertinent provision.

cba - ( New Window )
RE: RE: There is no way they donít want him back.  
BillT : 1/5/2019 11:34 am : link
In comment 14248074 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14248070 BillT said:


Quote:


There is really no other option. They may ask him to forgo his roster bonus. Along with similar cuts to OV and maybe Jenkins if theyíre keeping them. That would give them enough to try and get maybe two starters plus sign their own.


I would be very surprised if Janoris Jenkins is cut. The Giants are very thin at CB already.

I'd agree but some kind of a salary cut is possible. That's more likely for him and especially OV.
Guys, it can't be done!  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 11:34 am : link
Maybe Gettleman wants to thread the eye of the needle...
M.S. : 9:59 am : link : reply

...by having Eli Manning back for one more year AT A REDUCED salary,



You can't change the last year of Eli's contract, WITHOUT extending him.....and he wouldn't do that if there wasn't something in it for him, like guaranteed money......it's a freakin' business....

You can cut him before March 17th....then re-sign him for less.....but his dead money, 6.2M, is on the books no matter what you do......it's there if you do nothing, cut him, or extend him....

Think Eli would go for that? I don't think so....think of it as pain and suffering damages.....

As for Brady, he never took a pay cut, per say, he just took less money than he could have asked, and he also took money up front, that lowered his cap....you guys make it sound like he is playing for nothing.....22M cap this year, 27M next year......and there are those questionable business dealings he has with the Patriots....

And like I asked, where are all those other qb's that have taken pay cuts?
RE: In typical modern giants fashion  
Dutch77 : 1/5/2019 11:49 am : link
In comment 14248023 giantsFC said:
Quote:
Team will waste a 1st round pick this year and draft a qb from this mediocre class. Then miss out on an actual franchise qb from next years draft.

Manning for another year, as this defense is about 5 players short of being good, then draft the qb next year.

Or sign foles, Manning is gone, and do above as well.

No vet qb available is really much of an upgrade (especially at the price they would command) over Manning. Unless Carr gets released and even he is more like a Kerry Collins then a elite.




And you know for a fact thereís no Franchise QB in this draft but thereís one in next years draft?
The Giants are in full chase mode...  
bw in dc : 1/5/2019 11:53 am : link
As obvious by Gettleman's press conference, they have no real plan hatched. They are winging it, and hoping they stumble into something that makes sense. This is a team on a high wire act.

And this is exactly why not taking a QB instead of a RB last April was the better, logical move. We'd have a QB - whomever you want to argue for - gearing up for his second year with the transition plan fully activated. Imagine how much smoother this would be. Eli would know he's out, we'd have a QB solution, and there would be considerably less stress.

But let's keep crossing our fingers, rubbing a rabbit's foot, hunting for four leaf clovers, avoiding cracks in sidewalks, etc hoping now the men who created this predicament can figure it out. Get used to the cellar of the NFC East. It's going to be a while now...

LOL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 11:57 am : link
the amount of emphasis some people put on press conferences to support their theories is amusing as hell.
Giants think he has a few years left  
bc4life : 1/5/2019 11:59 am : link
the issue will be the money. BBI is just talking about this now, DG & Co. & Eli have been thinking and talking behind closed doors about this issue for at least a year.

Anyone thinks that the Eli-DG meeting was the decision moment - well, I think you're way wrong.

RE: Giants think he has a few years left  
Sammo85 : 1/5/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14248117 bc4life said:
Quote:
the issue will be the money. BBI is just talking about this now, DG & Co. & Eli have been thinking and talking behind closed doors about this issue for at least a year.

Anyone thinks that the Eli-DG meeting was the decision moment - well, I think you're way wrong.


No they do not. Stop taking Shurmurs comments as gospel.
RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14248111 bw in dc said:
Quote:
As obvious by Gettleman's press conference, they have no real plan hatched. They are winging it, and hoping they stumble into something that makes sense. This is a team on a high wire act.

And this is exactly why not taking a QB instead of a RB last April was the better, logical move. We'd have a QB - whomever you want to argue for - gearing up for his second year with the transition plan fully activated. Imagine how much smoother this would be. Eli would know he's out, we'd have a QB solution, and there would be considerably less stress.

But let's keep crossing our fingers, rubbing a rabbit's foot, hunting for four leaf clovers, avoiding cracks in sidewalks, etc hoping now the men who created this predicament can figure it out. Get used to the cellar of the NFC East. It's going to be a while now...

bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO.
Uh  
bc4life : 1/5/2019 12:17 pm : link
Shurmur and Gettlemen are far from the only ones who think Eli has a few years left.

RE: LOL..  
bw in dc : 1/5/2019 12:19 pm : link
In comment 14248116 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the amount of emphasis some people put on press conferences to support their theories is amusing as hell.


Why wouldn't we take Gettleman at his word? He's proven not be a poker player with his thoughts and emotions. He's admitted as much - what you see and hear it what you get.

And he basically said he there is no decision on the QB spot and it's going to take time to vet it out.

Do you really think a QB solution is finalized?
RE: Uh  
Sammo85 : 1/5/2019 12:20 pm : link
In comment 14248133 bc4life said:
Quote:
Shurmur and Gettlemen are far from the only ones who think Eli has a few years left.


If they think that they should be fired immediately.
"No plan hatched"  
bc4life : 1/5/2019 12:20 pm : link
Translation - "I disagreed with them taking a QB, I would have done something else - so therefore they must not have a plan beacuse it does not jibe with what I think they should have done."

Everyone's been planning for this moment - Owners, DG, Shurmur, Eli, his agent - and I'm sure a few other teams in the league.

BBI get over yourselves.
RE: Uh  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 12:21 pm : link
In comment 14248133 bc4life said:
Quote:
Shurmur and Gettlemen are far from the only ones who think Eli has a few years left.

If Gettleman thought Eli has a few years left why hasn't he begun extension talks? Why does Eli sound on the fence about retirement? There is nothing from Eli's private meeting with Gettleman that supports the theory that Gettleman thinks Eli has several years left.
Why is it so difficult to move on?  
Dutch77 : 1/5/2019 12:23 pm : link
Most here donít believe thereís a Franchise QB in this years draft but if Eli gives us the best chance of winning next year and heís 38 with no long term future; how do you expect to draft any of the top QBís next year if we fix the defense and O-line this year with the assumption this would net more wins?
Please  
bc4life : 1/5/2019 12:25 pm : link
tell me you don't really think that this decision is based on what happened in the meeting between Eli & DG.

All that's involved here and everyone left it up to Eli to broach teh subject after the season. Really?

What is the benefit for the Giants for DG to say, at this moment, - "we know what we're going to do re: Eli?"
RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
bw in dc : 1/5/2019 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:

bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO.


I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?
I'm sure there's already been talks  
bc4life : 1/5/2019 12:27 pm : link
You think all contract talks are formal and that the whole world has to be put on notice that they're going to happen?
RE:  
bw in dc : 1/5/2019 12:28 pm : link
In comment 14248139 bc4life said:
Quote:


Everyone's been planning for this moment - Owners, DG, Shurmur, Eli, his agent - and I'm sure a few other teams in the league.



Do you actually believe anything you just wrote?

With all due respect, I can't believe you just wrote that with a straight face. Especially after the debacle in 2017 and the off-season in 2018.
yeah franchise  
bc4life : 1/5/2019 12:29 pm : link
worth a half a billion - all that money on the table yeah I do.

I'm sure bw knows better , he always does - but yeah I do.
RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14248145 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:



bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO.



I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?

If Eli is gone then the potential replacements are underwhelming at best. They could bring in a Ryan Fitzpatrick type or go with a guy like RG3, Bradford, etc. That should be enough to secure the Giants a top 5 pick.
Why would exending him one years  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/5/2019 12:34 pm : link
More be the end of the world as long as itís for a something like 5-10 million. Especially if theybdeaft a QB this year. Why Couldnít he be the back up. Lessens the untenable 23 million and can be a good locker room guy.

Maybe they like to want him Looking over the kids shoulder but itís better than the alteranative. Sure Shurmur could make it work w a Foles but they arent winning much w a guy like that and heíd probably want more than one year. Think thereís a way to make this work. But Eli will have to be realistic
RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
Eman11 : 1/5/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14248145 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:



bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO.



I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?


You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either.

I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.
RE: Maybe Gettleman wants to thread the eye of the needle...  
Boy Cord : 1/5/2019 12:45 pm : link
In comment 14248014 M.S. said:
Quote:

...by having Eli Manning back for one more year AT A REDUCED salary, and maybe with a little luck put up a respectable 8-8 / 9-7 record, and then allow our future HOF QB to sail into the sunset.

And if he is very lucky, Gettleman somehow, someway secures the services of a future franchise QB who sits and learns for a year with Eli at the helm

The scenarios Gettleman wants to avoid:

(1) Cutting Eli and then going 4-12;
(2) Keeping Eli AT CURRENT SALARY and going 8-8;
(3) Cutting Eli and brining in a short-term QB solution who has a mediocre season;

Jerry Reese created a gigantic, dark box with 15 doors, but only one of them will lead the Giants out of their current misery. Dave Gettleman needs to find that ONE door!

Good Luck!


Eli setting sail into the sunset with a respectable record should not factor into the Giants planning.
Are you serious??  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 12:46 pm : link
Quote:
Why wouldn't we take Gettleman at his word? He's proven not be a poker player with his thoughts and emotions. He's admitted as much - what you see and hear it what you get.


Seems like you only take certain words and not really what he says.

You've concocted an entire conspiratorial scenario where Gettleman was hired on a mandate to usher eli to another SB run and to build around him. That they passed on a QB because of a mandate, ignoring Gettleman's words that he thought Barkley was one of the best players he ever scouted.

And when Gettleman said he has a plan for the team or when he said that certain players were brought here to improve the attitude and culture, you scoff at those words.

You can't have it both ways, but then again, when you believe wild conspiracy theories I guess anything is on the table.
RE: In typical modern giants fashion  
Boy Cord : 1/5/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14248023 giantsFC said:
Quote:
Team will waste a 1st round pick this year and draft a qb from this mediocre class. Then miss out on an actual franchise qb from next years draft.

Manning for another year, as this defense is about 5 players short of being good, then draft the qb next year.

Or sign foles, Manning is gone, and do above as well.

No vet qb available is really much of an upgrade (especially at the price they would command) over Manning. Unless Carr gets released and even he is more like a Kerry Collins then a elite.




2017 was supposedly a mediocre year for QBs. Thus far it is
Looking damn good. Letís wait and see before saying there are no
QBs in this draft.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
Dutch77 : 1/5/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14248145 bw in dc said:


Quote:


In comment 14248132 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:



bw, imagine if the Giants end up with Tua, Fromm, Herbert, Eason in 2020. I was a huge fan of Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen but I like Fromm's upside more as I do for 2021 options Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields. If the Giants get Fromm in 2020 to pair with Beckham, Barkley, and Engram then this team will be a perennial contender IMO.



I get it, but in order to secure the best spot with your plan we'd need to tank 2019. I'm all for that. So who is your QB in '19 to make that happen?



You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either.

I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.


If management thought having a good draft and and free angency is a possibility this year, why not commit to Eli then?
How can anyone truly believe  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 12:57 pm : link
that Gettleman doesn't have a plan? You might not like his plan or disagree with it but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Does anyone honestly think that Gettleman just planned on 37 year old Eli being here and playing well for several seasons without any other contingency plans? Is the earth flat or round?
RE: RE: Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
Dutch77 : 1/5/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14248060 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.



You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements?


Exactly!
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:
Quote:

You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either.

I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.

I never said I was ok with tanking. Looking back in a few years I will say it was a good thing that the Giants ended up with one of the top QB's in the draft but I wasn't suggesting that management just throw in the towel for 2019. The truth is there aren't many good answers at the QB position especially if Eli retires or leaves. The Giants will be forced to sign a stopgap type. The Giants will have a difficult time competing in that scenario.
RE: RE: Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
allstarjim : 1/5/2019 1:14 pm : link
In comment 14248060 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.



You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements?


First, all the other teams are making moves to improve year after year as well. You're also assuming that the draft picks won't bust, and that we'll enjoy relative good health. The Giants, all things considered, were a 5 win team with a pretty healthy roster for most of the season.

Next year, who knows? We lose a couple of key starters to IR early and it's a wasted year. I'm not assuming anything a year away. All I know is that the Giants pick in 2020 will be somewhere between 1-32, and all outcomes are possible. Sure, the earliest and latest picks are more unlikely, but you can't rule anything out.
Eli will be back. But not for 23 mil. Eli knows he's not getting that  
Blue21 : 1/5/2019 1:15 pm : link
anywhere else either. And I take him at his word he doesn't want to go anywhere either. This gives Lauletta and whoever they draft another year to learn. This also give them another year to evaluate Lauletta and or possibly pick up a FA the end of next year. Only other option I see is Bridgewater where he played for Shurmur before. But Shurmur convinced me and I think he will try to convince DG if he isn't convinced already that he wants Eli back for one more year. I'm hoping it will be a cap friendly deal maybe with incentives. Free up some money and build that D up and tweak the Oline with a C and RG.
RE: RE: RE: Eli will be back to continue our losing formula...  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 1:28 pm : link
In comment 14248193 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14248060 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14248053 Emlen'sGremlins said:


Quote:


.....so we can Tank for Tua. It's the perfect plan.



You get two OL in FA then in rd 1 you get a [ass rusher and rd 2 you take BPA defensive player-- you really think we're going to be in in Tua? This year we won 5 games while OL was god-awful, and missed OBJ. You don't think we'll be a 7 or 8 win team assuming those improvements?



First, all the other teams are making moves to improve year after year as well. You're also assuming that the draft picks won't bust, and that we'll enjoy relative good health. The Giants, all things considered, were a 5 win team with a pretty healthy roster for most of the season.

Next year, who knows? We lose a couple of key starters to IR early and it's a wasted year. I'm not assuming anything a year away. All I know is that the Giants pick in 2020 will be somewhere between 1-32, and all outcomes are possible. Sure, the earliest and latest picks are more unlikely, but you can't rule anything out.

You're right. The Giants were blessed this season in terms of health. If Barkley goes on IR at any point next season the Giants won't have to trade up for a QB because they will be picking in the top 3.
RE: Eli will be back. But not for 23 mil. Eli knows he's not getting that  
Reale01 : 1/5/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14248194 Blue21 said:
Quote:
anywhere else either. And I take him at his word he doesn't want to go anywhere either. This gives Lauletta and whoever they draft another year to learn. This also give them another year to evaluate Lauletta and or possibly pick up a FA the end of next year. Only other option I see is Bridgewater where he played for Shurmur before. But Shurmur convinced me and I think he will try to convince DG if he isn't convinced already that he wants Eli back for one more year. I'm hoping it will be a cap friendly deal maybe with incentives. Free up some money and build that D up and tweak the Oline with a C and RG.


I think that is what will happen. You don't have a "brutally honest" conversation unless there is some bad news. In this case, it makes sense that the bad news was a pay cut. Eli may have "taken him to the low post" by pointing out what a mess the OL was at the beginning of the year. I hope this is how it plays out. The extra money could be used on OL. Get defense in the draft.
Jay..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 2:46 pm : link
Go Terps and bw have been saying it since pretty much as soon as Gettleman was hired:

Quote:
How can anyone truly believe
Jay on the Island : 12:57 pm : link : reply
that Gettleman doesn't have a plan? You might not like his plan or disagree with it but that doesn't mean he doesn't have one. Does anyone honestly think that Gettleman just planned on 37 year old Eli being here and playing well for several seasons without any other contingency plans? Is the earth flat or round?


So, you can either surmise they are doing it just to be right, or just out of frustration, but whatever it is - it isn't out of logic.

Hell, the way Gettleman purged the team, you'd even have to say the plan was to change the culture and weed out the weak players and malcontents from the previous regime. And while that plan can be disagreed with as a way to go about team building, there should be absolutely no argument that that plan has been executed.
.....  
BrettNYG10 : 1/5/2019 2:58 pm : link
I don't think Gettleman's some incompetent fool. I do think Gettleman thought Eli had some better ball in him than he showed this year and that the team could compete with Eli (and that DG had the confidence that he could get the team there quickly). I think the 1-7 start may have made DG realize that this is unlikely and that the team was further away than he thought when he took the job.

So I do think the plan may have changed a bit from where we were going into the season.

I also don't think there's an obvious plan on the QB front. There are so many issues right now that I think that's fine - I suspect we'll have at least another year or two of high draft picks and hopefully find a solution soon.
RE: I doní t know Joey  
81_Great_Dane : 1/5/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14247968 joeinpa said:
Quote:
If they sign a FA like Foles, he s gone.
Personally, I would not bet on Foles, even with quarterback-whisperer Shurmur as HC. But I would rather see Foles starting this year than Lauletta.
Cut Eli, go cheap at QB this year and draft a top QB this year or next  
TD : 1/5/2019 3:15 pm : link
Weíre not winning shit this year. Might as well build the rest of the roster and draft a potential franchise QB this year or next. If heís there this year, take him. If not, with only a cheap option at QB, itís unlikely weíll win many games and likely weíll get a top pick in 2020 for a QB then.
RE: .....  
jcn56 : 1/5/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14248312 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:

I also don't think there's an obvious plan on the QB front. There are so many issues right now that I think that's fine - I suspect we'll have at least another year or two of high draft picks and hopefully find a solution soon.


Same here. I don't think there was no plan, just not a very good one - and I'm not sure they're sticking to the same plan (which can be viewed positively or negatively).

I think a lot of people thought the transition from Eli to the next QB was going to be clean, and that was a mistake. I think our FO believed that as well. And now - it doesn't look like there's much of a plan on that front, at least in the immediate term. It really does seem like it's 'hey, 2020 isn't that far off'.
RE: Are you serious??  
bw in dc : 1/5/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14248161 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:

Seems like you only take certain words and not really what he says.

You've concocted an entire conspiratorial scenario where Gettleman was hired on a mandate to usher eli to another SB run and to build around him. That they passed on a QB because of a mandate, ignoring Gettleman's words that he thought Barkley was one of the best players he ever scouted.

And when Gettleman said he has a plan for the team or when he said that certain players were brought here to improve the attitude and culture, you scoff at those words.

You can't have it both ways, but then again, when you believe wild conspiracy theories I guess anything is on the table.


Here are Gettleman's words from his press conference in this question/answer exchange:

[i}Q: Are you committed to having Eli back next year?

A: Hereís what Iím committed to do. Iím committed to making the best decision in the interest of the New York Football Giants. Thatís what Iím committed to do. Weíre in the evaluation process. I know that you guys want answers now, but very frankly, I didnít come in yesterday. Iíve got to do what I do, which is get in my office and watch film.... [/i]

Seems to be a fairly easy interpretation - there is no plan yet for QB. And that's all I said. If we had drafted a QB last April, we would be able to start the smooth transition from Eli to his successor. Instead, this is still messy trying to solve for X.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
bw in dc : 1/5/2019 3:52 pm : link
In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:
Quote:

You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either.

I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.


I was just extrapolating out how to make Jay's plan work to draft one of the top QBs in 2020. Unless we were to put together a massive package to draft up, the best way to get there is to tank 2019.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The Giants are in full chase mode...  
Eman11 : 1/5/2019 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14248179 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14248155 Eman11 said:


Quote:



You might be ok with tanking in 19 but I don't think there's any way in hell Management is ok with that,and I'm willing to bet most fans aren't either.

I'm not sure what the answer is right this moment but I am sure tanking isn't on their to do list. In fact I think just the opposite is true. If they felt we could compete this past year, I'm thinking they feel with a good draft and FA signings they'd be even more competitive next year.


I never said I was ok with tanking. Looking back in a few years I will say it was a good thing that the Giants ended up with one of the top QB's in the draft but I wasn't suggesting that management just throw in the towel for 2019. The truth is there aren't many good answers at the QB position especially if Eli retires or leaves. The Giants will be forced to sign a stopgap type. The Giants will have a difficult time competing in that scenario.


Sorry Jay, I was responding to bw and included your post by mistake in the quote.

You don't tank to get a better pick. You break down your team  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 5:26 pm : link
to whatever is considered the future core and build it up from there. If when you break it down, it happens to get you a better pick then it only accelerates what you are trying to do.

"Kind of" restructuring is just wasting time and playing games...
RE: Cut Eli, go cheap at QB this year and draft a top QB this year or next  
Dutch77 : 1/5/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14248327 TD said:
Quote:
Weíre not winning shit this year. Might as well build the rest of the roster and draft a potential franchise QB this year or next. If heís there this year, take him. If not, with only a cheap option at QB, itís unlikely weíll win many games and likely weíll get a top pick in 2020 for a QB then.


Makes sense.
If Eli were QBing any of todays playoff teams  
xman : 1/5/2019 7:05 pm : link
would they win?
RE: If Eli were QBing any of todays playoff teams  
Eman11 : 1/5/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14248647 xman said:
Quote:
would they win?


Well considering he had a great game against the Texans with a shit OL early in the year, I'd say yes he would do it again behind the Colts OL.

I also think he'd give Dallas a better chance than with Dak.
Iíll take this opinion to my grave and never waver  
djm : 1/5/2019 7:33 pm : link
In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply donít want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but itís all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And itís just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. Iím nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli heís going to quit in my view.
Did Mara tie the hands of DG  
Ike#88 : 1/5/2019 7:58 pm : link
before the draft due to money? We may not get a chance to draft a good QB this year or next year, The chance was last year. With all our holes on the roster having the QB decided would have made for a much more optimistic outlook. We are crossing fingers and rubbing rabbits feet at this point. Eli is not leading us to any playoff glory. Inept front office.
Jesus..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 8:13 pm : link
please make it stop!!

Quote:
Did Mara tie the hands of DG
Ike#88 : 7:58 pm : link : reply
before the draft due to money?


Over money? We are right up against the cap!
Mara wanted to keep Eli  
Ike#88 : 1/5/2019 8:55 pm : link
so tying up his two years plus the #2 pick money at QB was not going to cut it. Barkley's talent level made it easy to keep #10 and here we are still looking for a QB.
Holy..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 8:56 pm : link
shit.

That might be the worst take on the situation yet.
this place is now Giants.com  
PetesHereNow : 1/5/2019 9:14 pm : link
without the graphics. That's how bad most of these comments are.
OMG, the 'few more years' crowd is so beyond delusional  
BlueManFu : 1/5/2019 9:19 pm : link
Quote:
Iíll take this opinion to my grave and never waver
djm : 7:33 pm : link
In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply donít want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but itís all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And itís just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. Iím nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli heís going to quit in my view.


Seriously, who the F really cares if Eli 'quits'. You just saw what we are with Eli and arguably the best roster of skill position players in the league. 5-11 and 3-13. That's who fucking Eli is now.

Literally anyone else we plug in there next year after Eli quits can do 5-11 and 3-13. At 1/4 the cost. And maybe a QB with a dimension of escapability makes #13 and #26 that much more dangerous.

What is the downside of Eli quitting? 5-11 or 3-13? Been there, done that. At 38 with obvious limitations that defenses exploit on a week to week basis the change is coming and there is literally no downside to Eli quitting if he doesn't take a major paycut. Someone in the 'few more years' crowd please enlighten me as to what you are afraid of in terms of moving on from bottom 5 QB play at high salary? Trying to be civil, please do the same.
RE: OMG, the 'few more years' crowd is so beyond delusional  
Diver_Down : 1/5/2019 9:35 pm : link
In comment 14248891 BlueManFu said:
Quote:


Quote:


Iíll take this opinion to my grave and never waver
djm : 7:33 pm : link
In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply donít want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but itís all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And itís just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. Iím nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli heís going to quit in my view.



Seriously, who the F really cares if Eli 'quits'. You just saw what we are with Eli and arguably the best roster of skill position players in the league. 5-11 and 3-13. That's who fucking Eli is now.

...

Trying to be civil, please do the same.


Sounds legit. Ask for people to be civil, but start their post with "who the F really cares".
that's all you got?  
BlueManFu : 1/5/2019 9:49 pm : link
I didn't direct an obscenity at anyone on that side of the argument, its simply a matter of emphasis...like who cares if he quits? Things are going well with him at QB and we're going to regret not moving on? Please explain what there is to lose after witnessing the past few seasons.
You don't see the irony in asking others to be civil,  
Diver_Down : 1/5/2019 9:55 pm : link
but you lead off your post with the implied F bomb. And then for good measure, it's not just Eli Manning, but Fucking Eli Manning.

Get lost, child.
sigh  
BlueManFu : 1/5/2019 10:11 pm : link
clearly diver down doesn't want to / is unable to debate the facts. anyone else? 19 year long season ticket holder here, lifelong fan. not looking to stir shit, just trying to understand the side that has so much trepidation in going in another direction. the last two seasons were the 'let's stick with Eli' experiment seasons, and obviously they have failed miserably. things are going to magically reverse course and we should just trot the old guy out there for another season with #13 and #26 in their primes?
Facts???  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/5/2019 10:31 pm : link
You've referred to a "few more years" crowd of which the membership is extremely limited, if not non-existent.

So what do you really expect to be debated?
Well,  
Doomster : 1/5/2019 10:36 pm : link
Cut Eli, go cheap at QB this year and draft a top QB this year or next
TD : 3:15 pm : link : reply
Weíre not winning shit this year. Might as well build the rest of the roster and draft a potential franchise QB this year or next. If heís there this year, take him. If not, with only a cheap option at QB, itís unlikely weíll win many games and likely weíll get a top pick in 2020 for a QB then.


if that isn't the definition of tanking, I don't know what is.....and what about all this talk this year of playing to win games to have a winning attitude? Then we wasted 5 wins....
The team is 41-64 since mid-2012.  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/6/2019 8:41 am : link
Who are the constants? The owners, the fans, Zak DeOssie and Eli Manning. In fairness, Zak missed four games in 2015, and Eli was benched for one in 2017. The Maras are here to stay. Maybe the Giants should swap fan bases with the Jets. The results couldnít be much worse.
BBB  
bc4life : 1/6/2019 10:41 am : link
and a bad offensive line. Deteriorating defense - those were constants too.
RE: OMG, the 'few more years' crowd is so beyond delusional  
djm : 1/6/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14248891 BlueManFu said:
Quote:


Quote:


Iíll take this opinion to my grave and never waver
djm : 7:33 pm : link
In my view if the giants ask Eli to take a pay cut that means they simply donít want him back next season. They can say or plead anything they want but itís all bullshit. Asking a 15 year vet to take a paycut is a sure fire way of losing that player. And itís just like the giants to play it this way if it were to go down like this. Iím nof buying that it will end this way but if the giants low ball Eli heís going to quit in my view.



Seriously, who the F really cares if Eli 'quits'. You just saw what we are with Eli and arguably the best roster of skill position players in the league. 5-11 and 3-13. That's who fucking Eli is now.

Literally anyone else we plug in there next year after Eli quits can do 5-11 and 3-13. At 1/4 the cost. And maybe a QB with a dimension of escapability makes #13 and #26 that much more dangerous.

What is the downside of Eli quitting? 5-11 or 3-13? Been there, done that. At 38 with obvious limitations that defenses exploit on a week to week basis the change is coming and there is literally no downside to Eli quitting if he doesn't take a major paycut. Someone in the 'few more years' crowd please enlighten me as to what you are afraid of in terms of moving on from bottom 5 QB play at high salary? Trying to be civil, please do the same.


Who said I was mad if Eli quit? I said I felt that if the giants low ball Eli itís just their way of saying they want to move on. Iím not sure what I ďwantĒ to see this offseason I just know I want to win.

Just save me the bullshit that the giants wanted Eli back if the paycut comes with it. Thatís a load of PR crap.
RE: BBB  
Big Blue Blogger : 1/6/2019 12:29 pm : link
bc4life said:
Quote:
and a bad offensive line. Deteriorating defense - those were constants too.
True. Plenty of new faces though.:o)

Not saying Eli has been the problem, just that he hasnít been the solution. And with each passing year, the chances of him being an important part of the solution diminish. As Iíve said repeatedly, Iíd love to see him finish his career with an Elway-style flourish; but the team just isnít there, aside from the Davis/Barkley parallel.
replacement probably  
bc4life : 1/6/2019 12:33 pm : link
isn't on the roster - so it will be interesting to see what their plan is.
Having..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/6/2019 1:09 pm : link
an overall team health in the bottom of the league has been a constant too.

The one year that they weren't lower than 20th? 2016
RE: RE: In typical modern giants fashion  
giantsFC : 1/6/2019 11:18 pm : link
In comment 14248164 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
In comment 14248023 giantsFC said:


Quote:


Team will waste a 1st round pick this year and draft a qb from this mediocre class. Then miss out on an actual franchise qb from next years draft.

Manning for another year, as this defense is about 5 players short of being good, then draft the qb next year.

Or sign foles, Manning is gone, and do above as well.

No vet qb available is really much of an upgrade (especially at the price they would command) over Manning. Unless Carr gets released and even he is more like a Kerry Collins then a elite.






2017 was supposedly a mediocre year for QBs. Thus far it is
Looking damn good. Letís wait and see before saying there are no
QBs in this draft.


Good point.
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