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2017 QB class

GoBlue6599 : 1/5/2019 4:03 pm
Itís so funny to hear people back track now.. They fed us the same narrative about there not being ANY franchise QBs in that draft
Well all 3 taken in round 1 will be starting playoff games at home this weekend after winning there divisions, not bad eh
Yep, and Goff and Wentz  
bceagle05 : 1/5/2019 4:06 pm : link
were viewed as a mediocre class the year before. A year from now we'll be talking about two QBs from this year's class who had promising rookie campaigns.
Agree GoBlue  
Earl the goat : 1/5/2019 4:08 pm : link
I honestly think Watson Trubisky Mahomes will have better careers than
Mayfield Darnaud Allen and Rosen
Jackson was taken 32nd  
Big Blue '56 : 1/5/2019 4:08 pm : link
in Rd 1. Who else from Ď17 class?
My bad,  
Big Blue '56 : 1/5/2019 4:09 pm : link
I was thinking 2018. Sorry
Exactly..  
Sean : 1/5/2019 4:16 pm : link
Funny to me seeing people say wait until 2021. Are we watching the same games?
It's just a feeling, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Giants go for  
Ira : 1/5/2019 4:18 pm : link
Daniel Jones in the first round.
By the time we get to this draft  
Dave on the UWS : 1/5/2019 4:18 pm : link
I would not be surprised to see 2 guys projected to be top 10 picks. Whether Gettleman takes these guys is a different kettle of fish.
Ira- I actually like Jones  
Dave on the UWS : 1/5/2019 4:21 pm : link
He's got size, mobility but is a pocket passer. Has pretty good mechanics as he's worked with the guy who worked with the Mannings so there's a connection there. Didn't set the world on fire at Duke, but they're not exactly a football powerhouse.
There also weren't any OL worth taking  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 4:21 pm : link
in the 2016 and 2017 drafts either around our picks.

I recall that stupidity as well...

Yup  
Sy'56 : 1/5/2019 4:24 pm : link
I was so wrong about Mahomes and Watson
...  
christian : 1/5/2019 4:49 pm : link
The micro-disections between the top QBs gets tedious at some points.

If a quarterback has the requisite size, arm, IQ, and accuracy he can be a winner.

The infinitely harder part is putting together a quality program and roster. The Giants need to focus on this. It's hard, but it's the thing management can control.

It takes a special quarterback to transcend a bad operation. Like a Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, John Elway type. Management doesn't get to pick when one comes around.
RE: Yup  
GoBlue6599 : 1/5/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14248408 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I was so wrong about Mahomes and Watson

You do a great job with the college scouting reports being wrong every now and then is no big deal
RE: There also weren't any OL worth taking  
BigBlueinChicago : 1/5/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14248405 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
in the 2016 and 2017 drafts either around our picks.

I recall that stupidity as well...


Which is why draft evaluations should not be taken too seriously.

How many "no-brainer" QB's have been taken in the last 35 years at the top of the draft? Three or four at most?

If you are relying on that ratio, you will be waiting for a very long time hoping to get the "right guy" and think you are not "forcing" the pick as some have said on BBI about taking Haskins even if he checks out as worthy of the selection.

Scouting is so incredibly bad on QB's that you should really take many of the evaluations and throw them in the trash. But fans and media take their views, consume them, then form their own opinions based on them and infiltrate the minds of others with it.

When those evaluations are wrong, we don't criticize the evaluators, we come back one year later, read their same stuff again, and do the same thing that was just done a year ago. The cycle goes on.

To the point of the OP, we have been doing this dance with the QB's in the draft for 3 years now saying how none of them would be any good for a variety of reasons, and we are set to do the same dance again?

When does it end?
RE: Yup  
superspynyg : 1/5/2019 5:17 pm : link
In comment 14248408 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I was so wrong about Mahomes and Watson


even someone scouts cant get everything right! ;-)
We cannot in my view. Have to exhaust every available option  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 5:18 pm : link
at QB before punting the decision another year down the road.

How many seasons is this franchise going to keep wasting before they smarten up...
RE: We cannot in my view. Have to exhaust every available option  
Giants38 : 1/5/2019 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14248475 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
at QB before punting the decision another year down the road.

How many seasons is this franchise going to keep wasting before they smarten up...


You hit the nail on the head. However, I am legitimately concerned that the Giants are waiting for the perfect QB prospect and are not even bothering the scout the others thoroughly. Houston and KC did their homework and nailed the Watson and Mahomes picks. They were so confident that they dealt future firsts to move up to get them. I fear the Giants have absolutely no idea what they are doing regarding the evaluation of QBs, and they are waiting for another Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck to come along and fall in their laps.
I am concerned as well. Not that we are legitimately  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 5:39 pm : link
waiting for a HOF QB, but that the Giants have such clouded judgment when it comes to truly restructuring the team. And we need a full-blown out restructuring with a new guy under center asap.

We simply do not know how to break it down and build it up because we have been "meddling" for decades. The last two SuperBowl runs were fabulous but they also created this aura that we are always close if we just get a few key pieces.

And that has been a joke...



Werenít Winston And Mariota  
dep026 : 1/5/2019 5:41 pm : link
Considered the new age must have QBs?

Itís all about team building.
I didn't like Watson or Trubisky  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 5:47 pm : link
But I was intrigued by Mahomes. I thought Watson was going to be RG3 with a weak arm.
RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
Jimmy Googs : 1/5/2019 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14248523 dep026 said:
Quote:
Considered the new age must have QBs?

Itís all about team building.


I guess it depends on who you want to listen to...
RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
Jay on the Island : 1/5/2019 5:47 pm : link
In comment 14248523 dep026 said:
Quote:
Considered the new age must have QBs?

Itís all about team building.

Mariota was but not Winston. Winston is a pocket passer.
Remember when Kiper  
mattyblue : 1/5/2019 6:18 pm : link
was calling the Colts GM stupid because he drafted Marshall Faulk instead of Trent Dilfer or some other QB that I donít think ever did anything? Finally they interview the Colts GM and he goes nuts calling Kiper a moron that knows nothing. It was great!

Anyone with an internet connection can become a draft expert nowadays. I respect the guys who go out on a limb and donít feed you the exact same story on every player. This year itís ďthis isnít a strong QB classĒ that means trade up to #1 and get a QB because every year they call it wrong.
Iím still not sold on Trubisky  
jeff57 : 1/5/2019 6:28 pm : link
.
RE: Iím still not sold on Trubisky  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/5/2019 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14248589 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


Nor should you be IMO. Im also Not sold on Watson as a true "Franchise QB". But to be fair that team has so few options for him.

And let me qualify my definition of "Franchise QB". Solid starter to me is. Not a franchise guy. Doesn't mean they are bad etc but the lost of true "franchise" level guy's is like 5-7. And some guys are only at that level for limited years. Plenary of people considered Flacco one after their SB win. Never saw it. Same W Stafford. Doesn't mean you pass a QB every year but if you can grab a HOF at type talent you get that guy. Nick Foles won a SB. Eli has one two and to listen to Many here he's never. Den all
That good etc.
RE: It's just a feeling, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Giants go for  
Dutch77 : 1/5/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14248398 Ira said:
Quote:
Daniel Jones in the first round.


Ira, Iím personally hoping the Giants pick Haskins, but wouldnít mind Jones either.
Its because the nfl is a team game  
djm : 1/5/2019 7:28 pm : link
Draft a qb with talent, even if heís got some flaws and coach him up. Then insert him into the lineup and surround him with good and great players.

Thatís why guys like wentz and Goff are succeeding. They arenít just good talents being coached by smart coaching staffs they are on talented teams.

Draft a big time talent and surround him with shit and you wonít win very much.

So many great talents at the qb position end up being perceived as failures once their careers are over. News flash, more often than not it wasnít the qbís fault. It wasnít romoís fault or Marinoís fault or fouts....

It dawned on me today that out of all the big pro sports, the football fans are wrong when it comes to player (qb) evaluations than any other sport, myself included. The NFL is so team orientated, so predicated on every individual doing their job itís impossible, better yet itís just unfair to put all the blame or credit on the QB yet no position takes more scrutiny or receives more praise. Itís all nonsense. Were all guilty of it.

Draft a talented qb and surround him with good talent and cosching and the qb will succeed 9 out of 10 times.

Dep. good post.  
LauderdaleMatty : 1/5/2019 7:33 pm : link
Luck is insanely talented and almost had his career ended because they almost got him killed w their past OLs.
This team is going nowhere...  
Vinny from Danbury : 1/5/2019 7:34 pm : link
until it fixes the trenches on both sides of the ball. Once it does that, I'll concern myself with obtaining a QB, if we don't have one yet. No QB can consistently perform well with the crap we've had there the last 6 years. In my opinion.
RE: RE: It's just a feeling, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Giants go for  
Bruner4329 : 1/5/2019 7:48 pm : link
In comment 14248663 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14248398 Ira said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones in the first round.



Ira, Iím personally hoping the Giants pick Haskins, but wouldnít mind Jones either.

If they pick either one of these guys at number 6 it will be a disaster. Neither one is a top 15 pick.
RE: RE: RE: It's just a feeling, but i wouldn't be surprised if the Giants go for  
GoBlue6599 : 1/5/2019 7:50 pm : link
In comment 14248709 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
In comment 14248663 Dutch77 said:


Quote:


In comment 14248398 Ira said:


Quote:


Daniel Jones in the first round.



Ira, Iím personally hoping the Giants pick Haskins, but wouldnít mind Jones either.


If they pick either one of these guys at number 6 it will be a disaster. Neither one is a top 15 pick.

Says who
I think the right offensive system is a big part of it  
SHO'NUFF : 1/5/2019 7:52 pm : link
Mahomes has it made in Andy Reid's offense with those weapons.
Didnít anyone on this thread  
Dave on the UWS : 1/5/2019 8:20 pm : link
listen or read Gettlemanís presser? He had NO illusions about this team, the guys he brought in were to change the locker room and START the building process. He spoke about the QBs last year and explained picking Saquon was a referendum on him NOT the QBs. Itís VERY possible he would have taken a QB at 2 if Barkley wasnít in the draft (or Cleveland took him). He gave me the clear impression he knows what needs to be done.
RE: Didnít anyone on this thread  
djm : 1/5/2019 9:18 pm : link
In comment 14248783 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
listen or read Gettlemanís presser? He had NO illusions about this team, the guys he brought in were to change the locker room and START the building process. He spoke about the QBs last year and explained picking Saquon was a referendum on him NOT the QBs. Itís VERY possible he would have taken a QB at 2 if Barkley wasnít in the draft (or Cleveland took him). He gave me the clear impression he knows what needs to be done.


Agreed. Weíve been saying this 1000 times if we said it once. The giants just could not pass on Barkley. He was too good too safe too perfect in every way. And coming off that disaster season who the hell could blame them for taking the surest lock of a skill player since LTD or Faulk.
And i am not sold on Watson.  
Giant John : 1/5/2019 9:26 pm : link
Whatís he going to be when they get to his knees? A pocket passer he is not.
RE: Yup  
AcidTest : 1/5/2019 9:47 pm : link
In comment 14248408 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
I was so wrong about Mahomes and Watson


I gave Watson a second round grade, and Mahomes a third. So you're not alone.
RE: RE: Yup  
bradshaw44 : 1/5/2019 10:18 pm : link
In comment 14248977 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14248408 Sy'56 said:


Quote:


I was so wrong about Mahomes and Watson



I gave Watson a second round grade, and Mahomes a third. So you're not alone.


I remember you specifically being worried the Giants were going after Mahomes. The draft is such a crap shoot.
Blue6599  
joeinpa : 1/6/2019 8:02 am : link
Yep and it is a mantra we will hea every year until Eli is gone

We heard it 17.18 and now we re hearing it for this year s class
RE: Didnít anyone on this thread  
giantstock : 1/6/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14248783 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
listen or read Gettlemanís presser? He had NO illusions about this team, the guys he brought in were to change the locker room and START the building process. He spoke about the QBs last year and explained picking Saquon was a referendum on him NOT the QBs. Itís VERY possible he would have taken a QB at 2 if Barkley wasnít in the draft (or Cleveland took him). He gave me the clear impression he knows what needs to be done.


Again what is being passed about DG is simply wrong. DG was not looking to rebuild. Its a false narrative. Every time this false narrative gets passed I'm going to refer those to DG's comments before the season started:

I copied the below quote from BrettNYG10 on the thread called ďRemember When Everyone Said Defer to DG Because He's a GM.Ē

He posted the following quote that looks like came from DG:

ďI've seen someone told one of the reporters that I'm in a tear-down," Gettleman said. at the time "We're not spending $62 million on Nate Solder or signing Patrick Omameh and we're not trading for Alec Ogletree if we're in a tear-down. I'm doing that. We've evaluated the roster. We've developed a plan moving forward. It's about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don't."

**In addition he specifically said at the time that they did NOT have ANY of the QB's highly rated. Much of the talk was that they were going to take the pass rusher if not Barkley. So please let's not try to change the narrative here of DG.
RE: Agree GoBlue  
giantstock : 1/6/2019 8:33 am : link
In comment 14248385 Earl the goat said:
Quote:
I honestly think Watson Trubisky Mahomes will have better careers than
Mayfield Darnaud Allen and Rosen


I think Mayfield is better than one if not two.
RE: Iím still not sold on Trubisky  
Jimmy Googs : 1/6/2019 8:35 am : link
In comment 14248589 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


I am interested in how the coaches get him prepared for this game and how they let him play.

In the few games I have watched him, I have seen a pretty wide spectrum on his performance. I won't lie though, I like more of what I see than don't. Not elite stuff but quality stuff...
RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
markky : 1/6/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14248523 dep026 said:
Quote:
Considered the new age must have QBs?

Itís all about team building.


this is where i'm at. i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback. we have a chance to add a couple of pieces in this draft. we added a couple in the last draft.
RE: RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
Jimmy Googs : 1/6/2019 9:12 am : link
In comment 14249428 markky said:
Quote:


i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.


It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...
RE: RE: RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
markky : 1/6/2019 9:17 am : link
In comment 14249432 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14249428 markky said:


Quote:




i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.



It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...


my point is we need a strong team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. you don't need a HoF QB to win the superbowl. (Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles).
RE: RE: RE: RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
giantstock : 1/6/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14249436 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 14249432 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 14249428 markky said:


Quote:




i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.



It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...



my point is we need a strong team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. you don't need a HoF QB to win the superbowl. (Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles).


But you want to try to win and be in contention for more than 1 year, right? Was DIlfer a type of QB that keeps you in contention for several years?

ANd how long do you think it will take Gmen to build up the defense?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
markky : 1/6/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14249438 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 14249436 markky said:




But you want to try to win and be in contention for more than 1 year, right? Was DIlfer a type of QB that keeps you in contention for several years?

ANd how long do you think it will take Gmen to build up the defense?


Dilfer was definitely not. And neither is Eli.

My point isn't that I want Dilfer at QB, but rather that drafting high gives us an opportunity to build a great team that can contend. Drafting at 6 put me in the BPA camp. If it's Haskins I'm good with that. But if it's a defensive player, same.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
Jimmy Googs : 1/6/2019 9:42 am : link
In comment 14249436 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 14249432 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 14249428 markky said:


Quote:




i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.



It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...



my point is we need a strong team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. you don't need a HoF QB to win the superbowl. (Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles).


I know what your main point was...just playing devils advocate.

BTW - some pretty high First Round Picks in your little list there...
...  
christian : 1/6/2019 9:44 am : link
The most common route to building a winning quarterback is an ascending roster, a coach the management trusts, and management the ownership trusts.

If you have that foundation, you can create an environment where you have the option of a number of prospects who can succeed.

Quarterback has a disproportionate impact on your team. The rules favor the quarterback, the economics do not, and he's touching the ball on virtually every meaningful offense snap.

Getting the QB position right is virtually always the most important component of a winning team.

Get a good prospect, put him in a functional situation, and invest around him as he progresses.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Werenít Winston And Mariota  
giantstock : 1/6/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14249452 markky said:
Quote:
In comment 14249438 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 14249436 markky said:




But you want to try to win and be in contention for more than 1 year, right? Was DIlfer a type of QB that keeps you in contention for several years?

ANd how long do you think it will take Gmen to build up the defense?



Dilfer was definitely not. And neither is Eli.

My point isn't that I want Dilfer at QB, but rather that drafting high gives us an opportunity to build a great team that can contend. Drafting at 6 put me in the BPA camp. If it's Haskins I'm good with that. But if it's a defensive player, same.


How long before you think the giants defense is SUper Bowl worthy?

What's your impression on the chiefs this year?

You don't think KC can be a contender?
RE: I think the right offensive system is a big part of it  
kes722 : 1/6/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14248721 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
Mahomes has it made in Andy Reid's offense with those weapons.


I completely agree, Andy Reid has always been a QB whisperer. While I give Mahomes credit he went to the perfect system.
What about Shurmur  
GoBlue6599 : 1/6/2019 12:00 pm : link
His resume with QBs was supposedly part of the reason he was hired by the Giants
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