It’s so funny to hear people back track now.. They fed us the same narrative about there not being ANY franchise QBs in that draft
Well all 3 taken in round 1 will be starting playoff games at home this weekend after winning there divisions, not bad eh
Mayfield Darnaud Allen and Rosen
I recall that stupidity as well...
If a quarterback has the requisite size, arm, IQ, and accuracy he can be a winner.
The infinitely harder part is putting together a quality program and roster. The Giants need to focus on this. It's hard, but it's the thing management can control.
It takes a special quarterback to transcend a bad operation. Like a Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, John Elway type. Management doesn't get to pick when one comes around.
You do a great job with the college scouting reports being wrong every now and then is no big deal
I recall that stupidity as well...
Which is why draft evaluations should not be taken too seriously.
How many "no-brainer" QB's have been taken in the last 35 years at the top of the draft? Three or four at most?
If you are relying on that ratio, you will be waiting for a very long time hoping to get the "right guy" and think you are not "forcing" the pick as some have said on BBI about taking Haskins even if he checks out as worthy of the selection.
Scouting is so incredibly bad on QB's that you should really take many of the evaluations and throw them in the trash. But fans and media take their views, consume them, then form their own opinions based on them and infiltrate the minds of others with it.
When those evaluations are wrong, we don't criticize the evaluators, we come back one year later, read their same stuff again, and do the same thing that was just done a year ago. The cycle goes on.
To the point of the OP, we have been doing this dance with the QB's in the draft for 3 years now saying how none of them would be any good for a variety of reasons, and we are set to do the same dance again?
When does it end?
even someone scouts cant get everything right! ;-)
How many seasons is this franchise going to keep wasting before they smarten up...
How many seasons is this franchise going to keep wasting before they smarten up...
You hit the nail on the head. However, I am legitimately concerned that the Giants are waiting for the perfect QB prospect and are not even bothering the scout the others thoroughly. Houston and KC did their homework and nailed the Watson and Mahomes picks. They were so confident that they dealt future firsts to move up to get them. I fear the Giants have absolutely no idea what they are doing regarding the evaluation of QBs, and they are waiting for another Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck to come along and fall in their laps.
We simply do not know how to break it down and build it up because we have been "meddling" for decades. The last two SuperBowl runs were fabulous but they also created this aura that we are always close if we just get a few key pieces.
And that has been a joke...
It’s all about team building.
It’s all about team building.
I guess it depends on who you want to listen to...
It’s all about team building.
Mariota was but not Winston. Winston is a pocket passer.
Anyone with an internet connection can become a draft expert nowadays. I respect the guys who go out on a limb and don’t feed you the exact same story on every player. This year it’s “this isn’t a strong QB class” that means trade up to #1 and get a QB because every year they call it wrong.
Nor should you be IMO. Im also Not sold on Watson as a true "Franchise QB". But to be fair that team has so few options for him.
And let me qualify my definition of "Franchise QB". Solid starter to me is. Not a franchise guy. Doesn't mean they are bad etc but the lost of true "franchise" level guy's is like 5-7. And some guys are only at that level for limited years. Plenary of people considered Flacco one after their SB win. Never saw it. Same W Stafford. Doesn't mean you pass a QB every year but if you can grab a HOF at type talent you get that guy. Nick Foles won a SB. Eli has one two and to listen to Many here he's never. Den all
That good etc.
Ira, I’m personally hoping the Giants pick Haskins, but wouldn’t mind Jones either.
That’s why guys like wentz and Goff are succeeding. They aren’t just good talents being coached by smart coaching staffs they are on talented teams.
Draft a big time talent and surround him with shit and you won’t win very much.
So many great talents at the qb position end up being perceived as failures once their careers are over. News flash, more often than not it wasn’t the qb’s fault. It wasn’t romo’s fault or Marino’s fault or fouts....
It dawned on me today that out of all the big pro sports, the football fans are wrong when it comes to player (qb) evaluations than any other sport, myself included. The NFL is so team orientated, so predicated on every individual doing their job it’s impossible, better yet it’s just unfair to put all the blame or credit on the QB yet no position takes more scrutiny or receives more praise. It’s all nonsense. Were all guilty of it.
Draft a talented qb and surround him with good talent and cosching and the qb will succeed 9 out of 10 times.
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Daniel Jones in the first round.
Ira, I’m personally hoping the Giants pick Haskins, but wouldn’t mind Jones either.
If they pick either one of these guys at number 6 it will be a disaster. Neither one is a top 15 pick.
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In comment 14248398 Ira said:
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Daniel Jones in the first round.
Ira, I’m personally hoping the Giants pick Haskins, but wouldn’t mind Jones either.
If they pick either one of these guys at number 6 it will be a disaster. Neither one is a top 15 pick.
Says who
Agreed. We’ve been saying this 1000 times if we said it once. The giants just could not pass on Barkley. He was too good too safe too perfect in every way. And coming off that disaster season who the hell could blame them for taking the surest lock of a skill player since LTD or Faulk.
I gave Watson a second round grade, and Mahomes a third. So you're not alone.
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I was so wrong about Mahomes and Watson
I gave Watson a second round grade, and Mahomes a third. So you're not alone.
I remember you specifically being worried the Giants were going after Mahomes. The draft is such a crap shoot.
We heard it 17.18 and now we re hearing it for this year s class
Again what is being passed about DG is simply wrong. DG was not looking to rebuild. Its a false narrative. Every time this false narrative gets passed I'm going to refer those to DG's comments before the season started:
I copied the below quote from BrettNYG10 on the thread called “Remember When Everyone Said Defer to DG Because He's a GM.”
He posted the following quote that looks like came from DG:
“I've seen someone told one of the reporters that I'm in a tear-down," Gettleman said. at the time "We're not spending $62 million on Nate Solder or signing Patrick Omameh and we're not trading for Alec Ogletree if we're in a tear-down. I'm doing that. We've evaluated the roster. We've developed a plan moving forward. It's about winning now. Who wants to lose? I don't."
**In addition he specifically said at the time that they did NOT have ANY of the QB's highly rated. Much of the talk was that they were going to take the pass rusher if not Barkley. So please let's not try to change the narrative here of DG.
Mayfield Darnaud Allen and Rosen
I think Mayfield is better than one if not two.
I am interested in how the coaches get him prepared for this game and how they let him play.
In the few games I have watched him, I have seen a pretty wide spectrum on his performance. I won't lie though, I like more of what I see than don't. Not elite stuff but quality stuff...
It’s all about team building.
this is where i'm at. i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback. we have a chance to add a couple of pieces in this draft. we added a couple in the last draft.
i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.
It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...
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i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.
It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...
my point is we need a strong team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. you don't need a HoF QB to win the superbowl. (Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles).
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In comment 14249428 markky said:
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i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.
It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...
my point is we need a strong team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. you don't need a HoF QB to win the superbowl. (Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles).
But you want to try to win and be in contention for more than 1 year, right? Was DIlfer a type of QB that keeps you in contention for several years?
ANd how long do you think it will take Gmen to build up the defense?
But you want to try to win and be in contention for more than 1 year, right? Was DIlfer a type of QB that keeps you in contention for several years?
ANd how long do you think it will take Gmen to build up the defense?
Dilfer was definitely not. And neither is Eli.
My point isn't that I want Dilfer at QB, but rather that drafting high gives us an opportunity to build a great team that can contend. Drafting at 6 put me in the BPA camp. If it's Haskins I'm good with that. But if it's a defensive player, same.
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In comment 14249428 markky said:
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i want a team that can win a Superbowl with Trent Dilfer at quarterback.
It doesn't happen very often. But hey sure, lets spend all efforts to find and sign the other 52 players and then when we got it all ready to go, lets plug in Joe-Shmoe at QB...
my point is we need a strong team, especially on the defensive side of the ball. you don't need a HoF QB to win the superbowl. (Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Joe Flacco, Nick Foles).
I know what your main point was...just playing devils advocate.
BTW - some pretty high First Round Picks in your little list there...
If you have that foundation, you can create an environment where you have the option of a number of prospects who can succeed.
Quarterback has a disproportionate impact on your team. The rules favor the quarterback, the economics do not, and he's touching the ball on virtually every meaningful offense snap.
Getting the QB position right is virtually always the most important component of a winning team.
Get a good prospect, put him in a functional situation, and invest around him as he progresses.
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In comment 14249436 markky said:
But you want to try to win and be in contention for more than 1 year, right? Was DIlfer a type of QB that keeps you in contention for several years?
ANd how long do you think it will take Gmen to build up the defense?
Dilfer was definitely not. And neither is Eli.
My point isn't that I want Dilfer at QB, but rather that drafting high gives us an opportunity to build a great team that can contend. Drafting at 6 put me in the BPA camp. If it's Haskins I'm good with that. But if it's a defensive player, same.
How long before you think the giants defense is SUper Bowl worthy?
What's your impression on the chiefs this year?
You don't think KC can be a contender?
I completely agree, Andy Reid has always been a QB whisperer. While I give Mahomes credit he went to the perfect system.