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NFT: Yanks bring back Britton

LarmerTJR : 1/5/2019 9:23 pm
3 years, 4th year option.
Looks like between 13-14 a year. Yanks have to pick up 4th year after the 2nd year or else he can opt out.
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RE: Trading Betances a Fwar 1.8 and  
section125 : 1/6/2019 9:01 pm : link
In comment 14251439 blue2 said:
Quote:
signing Ottavino a Fwar 2.0 relief pitcher last year is a bad idea?


What is the fWAR lifetime and Betances is 3 years younger?
RE: Trading Betances a Fwar 1.8 and  
arcarsenal : 1/6/2019 9:06 pm : link
In comment 14251439 blue2 said:
Quote:
signing Ottavino a Fwar 2.0 relief pitcher last year is a bad idea?


We should be signing Ottavino and keeping Betances. I'm not that skeptical about Ottavino because I understand why he was so much better last year (I posted it earlier) - he made actual changes to his approach, pitch usage, and the way he trains, etc. So I think it's probably mostly sustainable. If there's any regression, it should be marginal.

Betances has a better track record and is a guy we know we can trust in the 8th. 2.36 career ERA and 2.32 career FIP in 381 innings. If we're trying to win a World Series now, Betances helps us get closer.
I don't trust Betances in big situations once  
blue2 : 1/6/2019 9:28 pm : link
men get on base against him.

Many here expect the Yankees to resign Betances and I severely doubt they do that. They won't give him what he'll ask for and like Robertson before he's going to take the best offer elsewhere with the Yankees not extending him a qualifying offer.

I do believe Betances to have great trade value especially to a team he might not want to play for long term. A team that can risk offering a qualifying offer that he will likely turn down. A team that will get better than a 4th round pick.

Right now the Yankees have Britton and Green as established back end relievers under team control for 2020. Betances will be free agent and Chapman with a big year most likely will opt out. Adding Ottavino now and trading Betances give the Yankees pen continuity going forward which is important for team building.

Now the question is what can the Yankees get for 1 year of Betances at maybe 7 million? The Yankees did very well in the past selling both Chapman and Miller. If say the Rockies lose Ottavino would they be interested in Betances? Would they give up Garrett Hampson plus?

I want the Yankees to maximize value instead of giving it away for free if Betances leaves as a free agent. I don't think there is all that much difference if the Yankees swap out Betances for Ottavino this season plus we get some 2020 security for the pen as well.
Betances off a big year...  
Dunedin81 : 1/7/2019 9:20 am : link
will get more than we can or should pay him. He's a fantastic reliever when he's right, but he can lose it for long stretches. Plus we have a lot invested in the pen, and we'll have other spending priorities in the next few years.
RE: Betances off a big year...  
rich in DC : 1/7/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14251789 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
will get more than we can or should pay him. He's a fantastic reliever when he's right, but he can lose it for long stretches. Plus we have a lot invested in the pen, and we'll have other spending priorities in the next few years.


Keep in mind that Betances and his agent have butted heads with the Yanks over salary before. When Betances hits FA, he is going highest bidder- and that's not likely to be the Yanks.

Remember, unless Chapman opts out of his deal, Betances is going to be the best reliever on the FA market next winter. That means some closer hungry team is going to pay him like one. The going rate is now between $15-17M, depending on the years. Kimbrel is still on the market because his agent got greedy and was demanding 6 years- and teams appear to be unwilling to go more than 3.
Even if the yankees have no plans to resign Betances  
Strahan91 : 1/7/2019 9:47 am : link
regardless of whether or not Chapman opts out, I still wouldn't trade him now. If the pen is fully healthy, they sign Ottavino who pitches like he did last year and Britton returns to his pre-injury self I might consider it at the deadline but they're legitimate contenders this year and a year of Betances could go a long way towards that goal if he's on his game, especially if Chapman's knee flares up and/or Britton is solid but unspectacular (like last year).
RE: Even if the yankees have no plans to resign Betances  
arcarsenal : 1/7/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14251826 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
regardless of whether or not Chapman opts out, I still wouldn't trade him now. If the pen is fully healthy, they sign Ottavino who pitches like he did last year and Britton returns to his pre-injury self I might consider it at the deadline but they're legitimate contenders this year and a year of Betances could go a long way towards that goal if he's on his game, especially if Chapman's knee flares up and/or Britton is solid but unspectacular (like last year).


This.

If Betances walks, so be it.

The Yanks are trying to win a World Series now - they shouldn't make any trades that make the MLB team weaker.

Not only that - but it repeats the same issue as there was the last time people were talking about trying to deal him.

If you're looking at dealing Betances at the deadline, the pool of potential suitors will be limited to teams in the postseason hunt.

Since NYY won't want to help any AL teams, they are obviously not going to deal Betances to a team they may need to beat to get to the WS. That limits their potential suitors to NL teams with postseason aspirations.

So, if you want to swing a trade mid-season with him, you're going to be dealing with limited options in terms of teams who will be interested and willing to give up good compensation.

NYY should be looking to keep Dellin and add Ottavino.
I prefer and hope  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 12:48 pm : link
NYY extends Betances. I want him to stay a Yankee.
RE: I prefer and hope  
adamg : 1/7/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14252197 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
NYY extends Betances. I want him to stay a Yankee.
Agreed. A New York guy who grew up in the system and is a true Yankee. He's a guy I'd love to keep. Not to mention he's our best reliever when he's on.
Letís talk about Sonny Gray for a minute  
Dave in PA : 1/7/2019 1:56 pm : link
Did Cashman plan out his initial remarks about trading him or did he uncharacteristically say something dumb that maybe he doesnít want to see through right now? Letís just say they canít get the return for Gray that they want in a trade and heís on the Yanks this whole year. Heís a UFA in 2020 and what if, by some minor miracle, he is able to have a really nice bounce back year and ditch whatever mental issues heís had so far in NY and is able to ignore the fact that his organization publicly thinks heís a lousy player? Thereís no chance he sticks around in 2020 after these shenanigans. In all likelihood this doesnít play out anywhere near as speculated, but even if thereís a slim chance, Cashman has squashed any potential of Gray with this club going forward. What was the point?
Gray -  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 2:20 pm : link
I think he's traded within the next few weeks, if nothing other than to get NYY back under the Hal tax threshold again (unless Machado is signed and they are for sure blowing past it). Cots has the Yankees at 207M after the Britton signing. Gray is projected to count 9M for 2019.

Link below.

COTS Yankees 2019 Payroll - January 7, 2019 - ( New Window )
Herrera to White Sox  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 2:49 pm : link
Jeff Passan
‏Verified account @JeffPassan

Reliever Kelvin Herrera and the Chicago White Sox are in agreement on a two-year, $18 million deal with a vesting third-year option, sources tell ESPN.
White Sox and Phils most aggressive on Machado  
shyster : 1/7/2019 2:59 pm : link
per Nightengale:

Quote:
The #Yankees are either playing it coy, trying to gauge the Andujar trade market, or simply have no intention of offering Manny Machado a $200 million-plus contract. The Chicago #WhiteSox and Philadelphia #Phillies remain the most aggressive teams for the prized infielder.
ó Bob Nightengale (@BNightengale) January 7, 2019



Nightengale is the hackiest hack who has ever hacked...  
Dunedin81 : 1/7/2019 3:01 pm : link
I don't buy that shit for a second. Doesn't mean they're all in, but little to nothing he says tips the scales.
Nightengale may be getting impatient  
shyster : 1/7/2019 3:11 pm : link
because he was pushing the "Yankees enamored with Manny; he's the perfect fit" theme weeks ago.
If they didn't offer Machado a 200+ million contract, what could they  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/7/2019 3:16 pm : link
have possibly offered him? That doesn't make sense.
RE: Nightengale is the hackiest hack who has ever hacked...  
Milton : 1/7/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14252412 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
I don't buy that shit for a second. Doesn't mean they're all in, but little to nothing he says tips the scales.
One of us is guilty of wishful thinking because I think the whole Machado pursuit was a bluff to bring Harper to the table at a more reasonable price. As bluffs go, it doesn't seem to be working. But maybe this is all about me preferring Harper to Machado by a wide margin (and thus assuming the Yankees see it as I do).
RE: If they didn't offer Machado a 200+ million contract, what could they  
Milton : 1/7/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14252463 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
have possibly offered him? That doesn't make sense.
5 years/$150M, 6 years/$174M, 7 years/$196M
RE: If they didn't offer Machado a 200+ million contract, what could they  
shyster : 1/7/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14252463 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
have possibly offered him? That doesn't make sense.


It's very possible that the Yankees haven't made a formal offer.

The only seemingly confirmed offer to Machado is from the White Sox as reported a couple of days ago by Nightengale.
I haven't the foggiest idea what they did or didn't offer him...  
Dunedin81 : 1/7/2019 3:31 pm : link
I just don't think Nightengale does/did either. It wouldn't shock me if they did sign him, but it wouldn't shock me if he went somewhere else and it came out that the Yankees never made a serious offer to him.

Harper signing with NYY would shock me. Stanton level of shock. I just can't see them paying what Ted Lerner seems willing to pay for a guy with a fantastic offensive skillset but one that is duplicative of what the Yankees already have on the roster twice over. Yeah handedness, but I can't see the Yanks valuing that at $300 mil plus, especially with a luxury tax bill on top of that.
Also Bob Nightengale  
Greg from LI : 1/7/2019 3:31 pm : link
The #Phillies are making it clear to marquee free-agent starter Patrick Corbin that they won't be out-bid, and teams still in the hunt for Corbin's services realize it, too.
RE: RE: If they didn't offer Machado a 200+ million contract, what could they  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/7/2019 3:36 pm : link
In comment 14252480 Milton said:
Quote:

5 years/$150M, 6 years/$174M, 7 years/$196M


I could be dead wrong, but I don't see him accepting anything below 7 years (and only that length with the Yankees) or 29 million AAV unless it's 9-10 year deal.

I just assumed the Yanks were willing to go 203-210 million.
More Nightengale :  
Ryan in Albany : 1/7/2019 3:42 pm : link
The #Yankees want to get under $197 million luxury cap so unless #Marlins take on Yankees bad contracts, Giancarlo Stanton is not coming

12:17 AM - 9 Dec 2017
RE: More Nightengale :  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 3:43 pm : link
In comment 14252545 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:
The #Yankees want to get under $197 million luxury cap so unless #Marlins take on Yankees bad contracts, Giancarlo Stanton is not coming

12:17 AM - 9 Dec 2017


Hahahahahahaha. Good one, thanks!
RE: I haven't the foggiest idea what they did or didn't offer him...  
Milton : 1/7/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14252504 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:

Harper signing with NYY would shock me. Stanton level of shock. I just can't see them paying what Ted Lerner seems willing to pay for a guy with a fantastic offensive skillset but one that is duplicative of what the Yankees already have on the roster twice over. Yeah handedness, but I can't see the Yanks valuing that at $300 mil plus, especially with a luxury tax bill on top of that.
I think it will come down to how badly Harper wants to be a Yankee. I don't know a lot about him, but he strikes me as a weird dude, given his Mormon affiliation and the fact that he doesn't drink booze but "admits" to drinking coffee. Someone like that with his sense of history is more likely to say to Boros, "your job is to get me a deal with the Yankees for the most amount of money possible....but it has to be with the Yankees." And so the Yankees only need to be in the "ballpark" of what the Senators--excuse me, the Nationals--offer. Of course if the Yankees aren't even close, Harper may consider it an insult and say fuck the Yankees.
p.s.--Don't know if it's meaningful, but in a gameshow style Q&A session, Boros was asked what's the best stadium to visit and he answered, Yankee Stadium. You have to believe that he wants his most valued client playing in the media capital of the solar system (if not the Univese!).
Don't get me wrong, I like Harper...  
Dunedin81 : 1/7/2019 3:48 pm : link
but I can't see them in on a guy with a redundant skillset anywhere near that price. And other than the "fully operational death star" crack, there hasn't been a scintilla of a whisper of a rumor suggesting the Yankees are actually in on him. Could Boras really maintain that level of radio silence?
RE: More Nightengale :  
rich in DC : 1/7/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14252545 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:
The #Yankees want to get under $197 million luxury cap so unless #Marlins take on Yankees bad contracts, Giancarlo Stanton is not coming

12:17 AM - 9 Dec 2017


Ummm- except that is exactly what happened- the Marlins took back Starlin Castro's bad deal to keep the Yanks below the luxury tax line.
Starlin Castro  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 4:31 pm : link
was not and still is not a bad deal. He was a 3.3 WAR player last year.

A bad deal would have been Ellsbury.
Castro  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 4:34 pm : link
10M in 2018 and 11M in 2019 for Castro is a very good contract.
RE: RE: More Nightengale :  
Dunedin81 : 1/7/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14252648 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14252545 Ryan in Albany said:


Quote:


The #Yankees want to get under $197 million luxury cap so unless #Marlins take on Yankees bad contracts, Giancarlo Stanton is not coming

12:17 AM - 9 Dec 2017



Ummm- except that is exactly what happened- the Marlins took back Starlin Castro's bad deal to keep the Yanks below the luxury tax line.


Nightengale downplayed the possibility of a deal AS IT WAS HAPPENING because he didn't want to have to re-write a piece that was getting ready to run.
This was interesting I thought  
Strahan91 : 1/7/2019 5:23 pm : link
Quote:
In fact, sources within the Yankees organization tell me the expected range for a Machado deal will be between $220 million and $270 million, probably for no more than seven years, and there is no guarantee the Yankees will be in if the numbers wind up in the upper half of that range. And the Yankees signing of Troy Tulowitzki last week seems like an insurance policy in case they decide to bow out on Manny. Yainee could lead Manny Machado to the Yankees. Yainee could lead Manny Machado to the Yankees.

But there is hope, Yankee fans. According to another source, who knows Machado well, there is a wild-card to this negotiation who might tip the balance toward the Bronx: Machadoís wife, Yainee.

According to the source, Yainee Machado Ė who is the sister of Yonder Alonso, the first baseman recently traded to the Chicago White Sox, one of the teams Machado visited on his sales tour Ė is enamored of New York City and very much would like to live here.

Matthews: Why Manny Machado's wife, Yainee, could lead star to Yankees - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I haven't the foggiest idea what they did or didn't offer him...  
rich in DC : 1/7/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14252552 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 14252504 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:



Harper signing with NYY would shock me. Stanton level of shock. I just can't see them paying what Ted Lerner seems willing to pay for a guy with a fantastic offensive skillset but one that is duplicative of what the Yankees already have on the roster twice over. Yeah handedness, but I can't see the Yanks valuing that at $300 mil plus, especially with a luxury tax bill on top of that.

I think it will come down to how badly Harper wants to be a Yankee. I don't know a lot about him, but he strikes me as a weird dude, given his Mormon affiliation and the fact that he doesn't drink booze but "admits" to drinking coffee. Someone like that with his sense of history is more likely to say to Boros, "your job is to get me a deal with the Yankees for the most amount of money possible....but it has to be with the Yankees." And so the Yankees only need to be in the "ballpark" of what the Senators--excuse me, the Nationals--offer. Of course if the Yankees aren't even close, Harper may consider it an insult and say fuck the Yankees.
p.s.--Don't know if it's meaningful, but in a gameshow style Q&A session, Boros was asked what's the best stadium to visit and he answered, Yankee Stadium. You have to believe that he wants his most valued client playing in the media capital of the solar system (if not the Univese!).


We get it- you've been fixated on Harper forever and are REALLY having trouble letting go of it.

He's going back to the Nats- for a LOT more money than the Yanks will offer.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/7/2019 5:53 pm : link
Milton often has trouble letting go of his "guy" once he's identified him. Bryce Harper is the new Josh Rosen... just a much more accomplished and expensive version playing a different sport. :)
RE: .  
Milton : 1/7/2019 9:56 pm : link
In comment 14252736 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Milton often has trouble letting go of his "guy" once he's identified him. Bryce Harper is the new Josh Rosen... just a much more accomplished and expensive version playing a different sport. :)
I was also all-in on Gerrit Cole going way back to June 2017 when there was first talk that he might be available at the trading deadline. And then after all the talk last hot stove that a trade was imminent and it was just a matter of when, not if. And then of course the Astros swooped in and got him for what looked like a bargain price to me.
"Maybe this time I'll be lucky" - ( New Window )
Mike Axisa at RAB thinks  
section125 : 1/7/2019 10:07 pm : link
Robertson is a better reliever than Britton and will be for the length of the contract. I love Mike, but he is absolutely nuts. Said you need to squint to see decline in Robertson last year. Again, he is nuts. Over the last 1/3 of the season you could see Dave lost a bit of control. I will say if the curve was snapping off, he was good. But sometimes he got hammered. Britton never got hammered. He was sloppy a time or two.
That said I wanted DRob back along with Britton. But I wanted Britton 1st. To me Ottavino is a 33 y/o 1 year wonder.

Thoughts?
RAB - ( New Window )
RE: Mike Axisa at RAB thinks  
adamg : 1/7/2019 10:17 pm : link
In comment 14253269 section125 said:
Quote:
Robertson is a better reliever than Britton and will be for the length of the contract. I love Mike, but he is absolutely nuts. Said you need to squint to see decline in Robertson last year. Again, he is nuts. Over the last 1/3 of the season you could see Dave lost a bit of control. I will say if the curve was snapping off, he was good. But sometimes he got hammered. Britton never got hammered. He was sloppy a time or two.
That said I wanted DRob back along with Britton. But I wanted Britton 1st. To me Ottavino is a 33 y/o 1 year wonder.

Thoughts? RAB - ( New Window )


I agree. Don't get the Ottavino obsession. I'd like the signing probably but I'd rather DRob over Ottavino and I agree with you that DRob look descendent.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/7/2019 10:28 pm : link
There's reason to believe Ottavino's 2018 wasn't smoke and mirrors. He basically scrapped his 4 seamer. Walk rate dipped, k rate jumped. Has a killer slider now.

He was actually even better @ Coors (2.10 ERA, 0.757 WHIP)

He really worked on his craft and I think what he's doing is fairly sustainable.

BUT...

There's one major issue with Ottavino and it's that he can't control the run game. He's very slow to the plate and the 25% steal rate against him was the highest in baseball.

I'm not concerned with regression as a pitcher - I am concerned with this.
arc, I wouldn't spend  
section125 : 1/7/2019 11:02 pm : link
$25 mill on a guy that at 33 y/o all of a sudden finds nirvana after years of mediocrity. But that is up to Cash and his scouts to believe it and take a chance.

Remember, Kahnle all of a sudden found 98/99 mph and then poof, it was gone and he was 27.
RE: arc, I wouldn't spend  
rich in DC : 1/7/2019 11:08 pm : link
In comment 14253420 section125 said:
Quote:
$25 mill on a guy that at 33 y/o all of a sudden finds nirvana after years of mediocrity. But that is up to Cash and his scouts to believe it and take a chance.

Remember, Kahnle all of a sudden found 98/99 mph and then poof, it was gone and he was 27.


Kahnle always threw hard- he was a mid-upper 90's guy when the Yanks drafted him years ago. It was control and command that eluded him for years.

Kahnle put it together under Cooper's tutelage in Chicago- and now he needs to prove that he is effective away from Cooper.
Ottavino was elite last year. Other than 2017 (when he stunk)  
Strahan91 : 1/7/2019 11:09 pm : link
heís been pretty good for the most part and heís spent all of it pitching at Coors no less.
RE: RE: arc, I wouldn't spend  
section125 : 1/7/2019 11:28 pm : link
In comment 14253445 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 14253420 section125 said:


Quote:


$25 mill on a guy that at 33 y/o all of a sudden finds nirvana after years of mediocrity. But that is up to Cash and his scouts to believe it and take a chance.

Remember, Kahnle all of a sudden found 98/99 mph and then poof, it was gone and he was 27.



Kahnle always threw hard- he was a mid-upper 90's guy when the Yanks drafted him years ago. It was control and command that eluded him for years.

Kahnle put it together under Cooper's tutelage in Chicago- and now he needs to prove that he is effective away from Cooper.


Yes, he threw in the mid/upper mid 90's but was wild, true. But all of a sudden he got to 98/99 and gained his control, yes. And then he lost velocity and control last year (injury?).

My point was Ottavino is not a sure fire certainty to repeat in 2019 after "finding it" in 2018.
Kahnle  
JPinstripes : 1/7/2019 11:32 pm : link
was hurt last year with shoulder issues. He claims to be pain free now, so let's see where he is in ST.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 11:28 am : link
Kahnle isn't a great comp - it's not a velo thing with Ottavino, it's approach. If the only thing that changed was that Ottavino was throwing harder, I'd be skeptical too - but that's not what led to his excellent 2018 season.
RE: .  
JPinstripes : 1/8/2019 11:37 am : link
In comment 14253990 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Kahnle isn't a great comp - it's not a velo thing with Ottavino, it's approach. If the only thing that changed was that Ottavino was throwing harder, I'd be skeptical too - but that's not what led to his excellent 2018 season.


Agree with this 100% on Ottavino.

The thing about Kahnle is he cost only 1.5M this year and if you get the player that averaged 98.5MPH on his FB in 2017 versus the guy that topped out last year at 97.5 it's a big win for NYY. The top FA relievers should all be off the board by Friday, so let's see where Ottavino lands - anywhere but Boston...
Quality lefty relievers are harder to find  
GiantJake : 1/8/2019 11:40 am : link
and Britton is a legit closer. Signing Britton makes sense simply because the Yankees have a group of hard throwing righties to vie for Robertson's innings. Green, Holder, Kahnle and a bunch of young guys should be able to fill Robertson's shoes.
interesting question  
bigbluehoya : 1/8/2019 11:45 am : link
if the Yankees are really pussy-footing the Machado situation or are lukewarm to a level that they're really willing to lose out on him...

sure, in a vacuum, not paying $250M-$300M can be defended.

But putting all of that aside -- do we really think Cashman is prepared to trot out a left-side IF of Andujar and Tulo for what could easily be 100+ games in a season where a WS title is the realistic expectation?

I have to think it's a "no". And that's what makes me think they do what it takes to get Machado or that there is yet another contingency plan for 3B/SS if he doesn't sign.
RE: interesting question  
Strahan91 : 1/8/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14254036 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
if the Yankees are really pussy-footing the Machado situation or are lukewarm to a level that they're really willing to lose out on him...

sure, in a vacuum, not paying $250M-$300M can be defended.

But putting all of that aside -- do we really think Cashman is prepared to trot out a left-side IF of Andujar and Tulo for what could easily be 100+ games in a season where a WS title is the realistic expectation?

I have to think it's a "no". And that's what makes me think they do what it takes to get Machado or that there is yet another contingency plan for 3B/SS if he doesn't sign.

I was thinking about this yesterday. We don't even know if Tulo's body can hold up at all, let alone to play short at an average level. Those two combined with Voit's defensive liabilities would make for one porous infield.
Can Tulo hold up physically and be the answer?  
GiantJake : 1/8/2019 12:06 pm : link
Recent history says absolutely not, but Tulo gives the Yanks another option to work with to piece it together until Didi gets back. Tulo along with Tyler Wade, Thairo Estrada and Hanser Alberto gives the Yanks four legit defensive shortstops to work with. If none work out, Cashman will have to swing a deal for a stopgap.
CC cleared to work out and resume baseball activities  
Strahan91 : 1/8/2019 4:49 pm : link
Good news, hopefully a Gray trade is on the horizon now.
Bumping this...  
Dunedin81 : 1/9/2019 8:56 am : link
because no matter how cold the stove is, I need some baseball in my life.
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