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The 2019 draft eligible QBS Lock vs Jones round one.

BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 3:07 am
Viewed 2 complete game tapes, Lock vs Purdue 2017 (most say he improved in 2018, so I wanted to get a "baseline" view of him) and Jones vs Northwestern in 2018 - for both, their junior year tapes...

Despite his footwork issues - mostly throwing flatfooted and not engaging his lower body enough in his throws - I like what I see from Lock much more than Jones. Primarily I see a guy going through reads on many of his throws, his head is moving around, whereas Jones is almost always locked down and then throwing to his primary read all the way. 2ndly, Lock had to deal with significant pressure on many, many throws, sometimes by scrambling and sometimes by releasing only right before contact. Didn't see Jones really deal with any of that.

Jones' arm is less stout, and Northwestern dropped two EASY picks that prolly ain't happening in the NFL. One of them was a pick 6 in waiting.

Tape I watched available on youtube.

Screw the Jay Cutler comp for Lock - sorry Boylehardt and Milton - he reminded me in this game of Brett Favre.
No thank you on Lock  
Spider56 : 1/6/2019 9:00 am : link
Go watch the tape of last weekís bowl game, especially the last series ... with the game on the line he looked like the 38 year old we know and still love.
Lock finished the season strong  
jeff57 : 1/6/2019 9:14 am : link
Donít know if heís worth the sixth pick yet. But he has more mobility than Haskins.
I prefer Lock  
Giantophile : 1/6/2019 9:29 am : link
to Jones. They're both intriguing though and there's enough to like in both of them to think they COULD succeed in the NFL. The size, arm strength, an athleticism is there. Lock has a cannon.
RE: No thank you on Lock  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14249418 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Go watch the tape of last weekís bowl game, especially the last series ... with the game on the line he looked like the 38 year old we know and still love.

If I find that tape I will watch it. Every pundit and armchair TV analyst called it a very strong performance by Lock and you think he sucked? Because of the last drive? And specifically he looked like a 38 year old Eli?

Had he injured one or both of his legs? The guy can run when he has to from the now 2 games I have seen. He's not a running QB thank goodness but he can...
RE: Lock finished the season strong  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 9:42 am : link
In comment 14249433 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Donít know if heís worth the sixth pick yet. But he has more mobility than Haskins.


I doubt either he or Haskins lasts past 10, despite the current murmur.
Lou - appreciate the commentary  
cosmicj : 1/6/2019 9:45 am : link
If you run across plays that you think are noteworthy, please link or refer to them.
Liberty bowl key play  
Spider56 : 1/6/2019 10:04 am : link
The play is on ESPN.COM in the box score ... 4th and 1 with the game on the line,.. and this is against a Big 12 team where they canít spell defense. Again, no thank you.
How Lock ended the year playing against the top teams  
cosmicj : 1/6/2019 10:09 am : link
Is a major red flag IMHO. Those are the sorts of players he would face every Sunday in the NFL.
RE: Lou - appreciate the commentary  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 10:27 am : link
In comment 14249474 cosmicj said:
Quote:
If you run across plays that you think are noteworthy, please link or refer to them.


Not sure how analytic I want to be versus getting a thin slicing type feel for the top QB prospects. I mean I first like to get a sense of the players with a subconcious feel that tells you this guy is franchise potential or not, just like that.

BTW, Lock does in fact remind me of Eli, but clearly more athletic. It's going to be interesting to see his value adjust as more folks put eyes on him. I'll be very curious to read Sy's final take on him. From the little I've seen so far I'm very surprised he likes Jones more than Lock.
RE: Liberty bowl key play  
ajr2456 : 1/6/2019 10:48 am : link
In comment 14249497 Spider56 said:
Quote:
The play is on ESPN.COM in the box score ... 4th and 1 with the game on the line,.. and this is against a Big 12 team where they canít spell defense. Again, no thank you.


Big12 teams never made any stops, I forgot about that.

Youíre knocking him for a play where they ran a read option, the EMOLS crashed, he made the right read and the linebacker made a great play? The linebacker cut off Locks angle off the tackle and forced him wide. Not many QBs are making that play. At least know what youíre watching.
Without knowing  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 1/6/2019 11:07 am : link
his presnap reads and calls, itís kind of hard too.
RE: RE: Lou - appreciate the commentary  
cokeduplt : 1/6/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14249524 BlueLou'sBack said:
Quote:
In comment 14249474 cosmicj said:


Quote:


If you run across plays that you think are noteworthy, please link or refer to them.



Not sure how analytic I want to be versus getting a thin slicing type feel for the top QB prospects. I mean I first like to get a sense of the players with a subconcious feel that tells you this guy is franchise potential or not, just like that.

BTW, Lock does in fact remind me of Eli, but clearly more athletic. It's going to be interesting to see his value adjust as more folks put eyes on him. I'll be very curious to read Sy's final take on him. From the little I've seen so far I'm very surprised he likes Jones more than Lock.



Iíd take an athletic Eli in a heartbeat. Iím not sold on lock though but havenít watch him enough
RE: Without knowing  
ajr2456 : 1/6/2019 11:10 am : link
In comment 14249579 K-Gun? Pop-Gun said:
Quote:
his presnap reads and calls, itís kind of hard too.


You can make an educated guess though. The play is clearly a designed read option. The end man on the line of scrimmage crashed which means to keep. The only thing that is questionable is if there was a second key on the second level LB that would have turned it into a pass play.
Lock  
kes722 : 1/6/2019 11:34 am : link
Has a top tier arm, as strong as anyone and more then accurate. While not blazing fast he can move and just as importantly throw accurately while moving.

A lot of people will pick apart the bowl game but the only reason they were there was him. At 22 years old he has a HUGE upside and would make a very good NFL QB. With proper coaching and a solid team I could see home leading a competitive team for 10-15 years
Add to that  
kes722 : 1/6/2019 11:36 am : link
Give him Barkley, EE, ODB, and an average OL and he could be special.
RE: RE: Without knowing  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 1/6/2019 11:36 am : link
In comment 14249582 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14249579 K-Gun? Pop-Gun said:


Quote:


his presnap reads and calls, itís kind of hard too.



You can make an educated guess though. The play is clearly a designed read option. The end man on the line of scrimmage crashed which means to keep. The only thing that is questionable is if there was a second key on the second level LB that would have turned it into a pass play.


When QBs do their predraft visits, I wonder if they get asked questions about unsuccessful plays in their past, if only to see what they learned from them, and who can take the blame without finger-pointing.
I've read two articles about the Liberty Bowl game  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 11:39 am : link
and in both they said Lock made the correct read on the play; it was an option to hand off to Rountree or keep it himself, no mention of a pass option off it. And Lock had already made several key plays on that last drive - on all 3 drives that dug Mizzou out of the 16 point deficit their defense handed them - to get Mizzou back to having a chance to win. And his top 2 receivers, Hall and the big TE with the too long name, we're out for all or most of the game.

Lock has a cannon of an arm, makes every throw effortlessly, and is a very interesting kid personality wise. Before the post game comments, after his last game in an extremely prolific 4 year college career, he reportedly asked his coach NOT to speak about him but rather about his teammates. And he cut off a reporter questioning him to thank the TV audience Mizzou fans and to encourage them to continue supporting his coach, who has turned the program around the past 2 years.

Doesn't AT ALL sound like a Jay Cutler type, much more an Eli Manning type person. Read the Kansas City Star article on him post Liberty Bowl.
Private workouts and Combines will flush all this out  
PatersonPlank : 1/6/2019 11:41 am : link
Get these guys on a neutral field, without their normal teams, and its an easier compare. Things like "getting all day to throw" fall away and you can see how they look on the same field. IF the Giants like Lock after all this, he may be able to get in Rd 2. I'm not a guy who says "no good at #6 but good at #15", because I believe if you want him with your first pick you get him. However getting a top OL or DL player in Rd 1, and then also getting the QB you want anyway in Rd 2, is enticing.

Long way to go though
RE: Private workouts and Combines will flush all this out  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14249621 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
Get these guys on a neutral field, without their normal teams, and its an easier compare. Things like "getting all day to throw" fall away and you can see how they look on the same field. IF the Giants like Lock after all this, he may be able to get in Rd 2. I'm not a guy who says "no good at #6 but good at #15", because I believe if you want him with your first pick you get him. However getting a top OL or DL player in Rd 1, and then also getting the QB you want anyway in Rd 2, is enticing.

Long way to go though


Unless something very weird comes out on the kid personality wise I'd bet the farm this kid will be a first round pick. Prolly top 10.
None of us on this site are experts ...  
Spider56 : 1/6/2019 1:09 pm : link
but look at how QBs do in big games against quality defenders ... with Lock, how did he do against Bama, Georgia, Kentucky & Florida ? ... throw out the games against the Missouri St, Wyoming, etc ...
RE: How Lock ended the year playing against the top teams  
jeff57 : 1/6/2019 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14249503 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Is a major red flag IMHO. Those are the sorts of players he would face every Sunday in the NFL.


He ended the year playing his best football of the season.
Either one would be ok to take a chance on in the 7th round.  
SterlingArcher : 1/6/2019 1:53 pm : link
.
RE: None of us on this site are experts ...  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14249749 Spider56 said:
Quote:
but look at how QBs do in big games against quality defenders ... with Lock, how did he do against Bama, Georgia, Kentucky & Florida ? ... throw out the games against the Missouri St, Wyoming, etc ...


Ok dude, now you are demonstrating massive ignorance. You're just typing shit to produce noise and ducking behind the "none of us are experts" like a weasel. Lock tore Florida a new asshole in Gainesville this November and apparently chewed them up and spit them out last year too.

You realize mis-statements of fact are a second away for anyone? For your edification I linked the article about Lock vs Florida below.

As for 'Bama, sometimes your team gets overwhelmed... Bama crushed, and I mean crushed, Sam Darnold's USC squads both times they played. I was all in on Darnold this year despite that, as were most pro talent evaluators. Darnold's team was butt whipped by OSU Buckeyes, too.

Your argument is weak, your supposing evidence (in part) is false, and have you actually watched Lock play and formed an opinion based on that or are you regurgitating someone else's narrative?

I will watch more tape of both guys and chime in again layer. BTW, I am already sold on Haskins from 2 games I watched live. But I like that Lock comes out of the SEC and has a 4 year record there. A four year record that eclipsed both Manning brothers' FYI.
Lock destroys #13 Fla. - ( New Window )
Neither is worth the #6 pick  
Somnambulist : 1/6/2019 3:16 pm : link
IMO.
Ding din ding! Round 2 and again Lock is the far superior prospect.  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/6/2019 11:33 pm : link
I watched Lock's "awful" game vs Georgia in 2018, a game that seems to have turned many a cognoscenti against him. Indeed Lock appeared to throw down the towel towards the end of the game when it was well out of reach. I watched Jones throw in the towel vs VA tech.

Ok Lock had several dog shit throws in this one, including one McNabb-ish grass trimmer on a broken play roll left to escape pressure. He also suffered a plethora of mishaps on the part of his mates that buried his team - a fumble scoop and run that set up GA's first score, at least five drops (prolly more) on balls thrown between his team mates numbers, a what happened? hit him in the hands but he plays tip drill instead of catch that turned into an int that set up another GA score.

He had oodles of pressure to dodge when GA turned up the blitzkrieg and seemed to remain reasonably calm and under control. He fired a lot of balls into very tight windows with, quite often, astounding accuracy only to have the passes regularly dropped. Lastly GA's DBs got away with a ton and a half of what looked like PI to me. The refs looked like they read reviews of how great GA's defense was supposed to be...

A summary statement from one of the play by play guys about midway through the 4th was about how "this [debacle] isn't Lock's fault, his team mates let him down today."

See Spyder56, you gotta learn to watch for yourself and keep your eyes open rather than accept what the pundits (who supposedly are tracking 200-500 guys each) tell you.. Don't get me wrong, it was a rough game for Lock, but you have to imagine him making the same plays (he'll have plenty of chances to experience similar pressure with the Giants' OL being what it is) but putting the balls in the arms of Barkley, OBJ, Shepard and EE or Rhett Ellison.

Meanwhile Jones and his Duckies look really over matched against VA Tech (Hi Joey!) this year. Jones simply can't throw the deep out, it appears, so he's running a limited O vis a vis play design and his mobility skills - well he looks lugubrious to me. And 80% of the time, maybe more, his looking at and trying to throw to only his first read. One more game for each, and I'll do a very little bit of breakdown analysis by simply counting all throws and how many of them are made to the first read only.

Bad games for both but Jones still looks considerably more limited.
Lock played awesome  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 1/7/2019 8:16 am : link
in the bowl game. He made some big time throws and ended 23-38 for 363 and 3 TDS. No INTS. He's a one read QB (now) but is accurate and has a cannon.
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