All this guy does is win games. Yeah I know about bad mechanics and great supporting cast but he is slowly building a resume of winning. I would take him over Eli right now. I am not looking forward to seeing Eli under center next year. Hopefully, he decides to retire because I do not see him taking a pay cut. I think he has to be sick of losing.
I hate the Cowboys and I know they just won their first playoff game in 100 years or whatever but I am jealous when I see the talent they built through the draft.
I want a QB that is mobile and can extend plays. He doesnt have to be perfect. We won 2 SBs with a QB that has quite a few warts but had a team with a defense that could make a 4th quarter stop.
With all of the parity in this league we should be able to field a team that can at least be competitive especially in our division.
I have been a very long time fan that just wants to see the Giants be competitive again.
Their OL for certain. Where else? Zeke was a no-brainer the way SB was. They expected Romo to play in 16 but instead he missed the entire season(save for a Cameo at the end) and they threw Dak in there from the preseason on. He was virtually a throwaway type QB draft pick, who wasnt. So again, what am I missing?
Yep...
7 out of Cowboys last 9 first round selections have earned all pro selections in their careers.
Dez Bryant (drafted 2010)
Tyron Smith (2011)
Travis Frederick (2013)
Zach Martin (2014)
Byron Jones(2015)
Ezekiel Elliott (2016)
Leighton Vander Esch (2018).
But the OP is correct, all he does is win. No he isn't a tier 1 QB, but with Elliot and that oline, he is plenty good enough to win. He's big and hard to tackle. Has just enough run ability to make plays and get 1st downs. Seems to be a smart guy and he makes some very nice throws. He is smart enough not run so much as to get hurt.
I'm not sure he is worthy of 6/$150 mill contract, maybe not even $120 mill. But depending on their playoff run he could be in play for 6/$90 to $100 mill. They could add escalators and incentives to sweeten the deal. Frankly, I think they keep him.
No doubt hes playing well, but Ill reserve judgement until I see more. Similar to Lamar Jackson, those teams go as their defense goes and Russell Wilson was checking down the majority of the game last night.
It was that defense, most especially the linebackers and of course the O line, that stands out in direct contrast to the lack of success the Giants have had there.
He has single handily transformed that offense. Elliott l, Dak, and the OL get the pub..... but hes their real MVP. Without him, their offense is middle of road at best.
He has single handily transformed that offense. Elliott l, Dak, and the OL get the pub..... but hes their real MVP. Without him, their offense is middle of road at best.
You add Cooper to virtually any team with a fair offense and it is greatly enhanced.
IMHO, Elliot is the clear MVP of that offense. Did Cooper help turn the offense around? I would not go that far - maybe put it over the top. What he did was pull safeties off the LoS and give Dak a deep threat.
He turned that whole offense around. I believe Elliotts numbers went way up too. Just an enormous enormous impact he has made.
It was that defense, most especially the linebackers and of course the O line, that stands out in direct contrast to the lack of success the Giants have had there.
👍
He turned that whole offense around. I believe Elliotts numbers went way up too. Just an enormous enormous impact he has made.
Yes, he adds that final touch and he is elite. He definitely improved the offense. I did see Jenkins shut him down last week, though(FWIW).
But even last night, Elliot was the driving force to the offense. He is a bulldozer with speed.
IF they are able to keep it together. They have to pay a lot of big contracts starting this off-season. At some point, either talent leaves for more money or the cowboys pay up and can't field the same level talent at other positions on the roster.
DLaw will be paid. Amari will be paid. Dak will be paid. Zeke is due in another year. At which point, the OL will begin to erode (they already have with the injuries). Gregory is a line of blow from being out of the league. They have their work cut out for them to keep the talent.
With his good and bad attributes, Dak has his team playing in the middle of January. So think about which ones are most important in his case...
That's what they said about Philly last year.
They dont need a QB who throws the ball 35 to 40 times a game. Dak is really the perfect QB for this offense. The addition of Cooper at WR was the missing piece for this offense.
Cowboys are now built to be the top team in. NFC East for the next 3 to 5 years unfortunately. We are going to have to deal with this for the foreseeable future
I HATE the COWBOYS
So yes I agree with the OP about Dallas supporting cast and Dak playing well but them winning their first playoff game in 23 years doesn't impress me...
The Giants put up 35 points on this D who just held Seattle to 14...yes I know Dallas had nothing to play for but the Giants also didn't have OBJ...
Bottom line the Giants are not far off...they need to continue to upgrade the OL and if they can somehow pick up a couple impact defensive players they will be right there with Dallas...
It just jumps off the page the difference hes made. His arrival has accelerated the development of Gallup, the TEs are now interesting, and the running game has real purpose.
Keep this is mind, too. That oline has been below their past standards. Tyron Smith has been poor. Its an absolute joke he made the pro bowl. The loss of Frederick was indeed a big deal. He was the glue of that interior. Martin also had a blah year by his standards. And LG has been a constant struggle to find some consistency.
Dak still needs more refinement to his game. But hes got a great asset for todays game - his lateral and vertical mobility. He is a threat to keep plays alive and get yards with his feet. There is a real dual threat to his game.
Dallas is fortune to have found him in the 4th round. That 2016 draft by the Cowboys is one of the great drafts of the last 20 years.
Stephen Jones to be accurate.
Not sure how much of that is him, his receivers, or the coaching staff keeping everything for him short.
Here's hoping the Saints figure out their mistake from last month and light them up.
He had no problem ripping apart the Giants without Zeke
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with Zeke in his backfield.
He had no problem ripping apart the Giants without Zeke
Playing a big 12 defense isnt something to hang your hat on.
Record after: 7-2
Total offense before: 320 YPG
Total offense after: 362 YPG
Passing offense before: 183 YPG
Passing offense after: 250 YPG
3rd down % before: 32% (30th in the NFL)
3rd down % after: 48% (1st in the NFL)
Record after: 7-2
Total offense before: 320 YPG
Total offense after: 362 YPG
Passing offense before: 183 YPG
Passing offense after: 250 YPG
3rd down % before: 32% (30th in the NFL)
3rd down % after: 48% (1st in the NFL)
Just backs my point up. People forget that Cooper was scary good his first two years. Also, goes to show how Carr isnt cracked up to what people think..
Cooper is the difference in that offense.
Careful what wish for
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Jerry Reese and Co at drafting.
Stephen Jones to be accurate.
This
No question Dak needed Cooper but thats how awful his weapons were before Coopers arrival. When you go from the worst WR corps in the league and then add a #1, he better have an impact.
One of the things that bugs me often about can player evaluations is overlooking the fact that late round selections are also growing on the job. It isnt just high picks who improve. A QB like Dak isnt a finished product and will likely be improving in the future.
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To see how much better the Cowboys have been in personnel evaluations
Their OL for certain. Where else? Zeke was a no-brainer the way SB was. They expected Romo to play in 16 but instead he missed the entire season(save for a Cameo at the end) and they threw Dak in there from the preseason on. He was virtually a throwaway type QB draft pick, who wasnt. So again, what am I missing?
Where else? Every freaking guy they've picked on D is contributing. This DT Woods is a monster. Awuzie, Vander Esch looks like Brian Urlacher. Jaylon Smith a home run. They've done a great job on both sides of the ball.
That said, I actually think Dak makes them beatable. If they had a legit great QB, they'd be the best team in the NFL.
I do think Dak is overrated. He reminds me a lot of Joe Flacco, and we saw what happened there once the Ravens paid him a kings ransom salary. Gameplan against Dak is to keep him maintained in the pocket, he's much better on the run.
No question Dak needed Cooper but thats how awful his weapons were before Coopers arrival. When you go from the worst WR corps in the league and then add a #1, he better have an impact.
I think the 2nd biggest thing Cooper added to this offense was opening up the running game for Zeke. A stud RB can really be a stud RB without 8 in the box every play. Zeke is definitely the engine but Cooper opened the whole thing up. Making Dak look better too. Sucks for us.
Consider Dallas' last two starters at QB, an undrafted FA and a 4th rounder. Consider the Giants' last QB picks at lower than the last 1st rounder, names like Lauletta (has he had a reasonable shot), Nassib, Bomar, Woodson...
And anyone who argues that Dallas' recent success in the draft has been limited to the OL has not been paying attention.
I think Dallas can give NO and/or the Rams a real contest, ball control offense, keeping the ball out of the hands of the top seeds' hands, and a D that can limit them. Will be interesting. I don't like it, but it will be interesting.
I have to say that watching the excitement and intensity of Dallas in the first half, I thought back to 2007-8 playoffs, and how we were jelling, intensity both sides of the ball, no one really giving NYG a shot to go deep into the post-season.
Man, I miss that feeling. It's been a long time. Time to change the script.
And the defense really won that game last night. Offense made enough plays to win against a team that was stubborn offensively.
As for Dak, he does make some great throws, but he is not consistent on the longer ones....they have one more year before they have to pay him....
Without a doubt, they have drafted very well.....and unfortunately, they will be the team to beat the next few years to come.
Look, I dont think Dak is one of the leagues best QBs, but hes showing up to be a solid midlevel starter.
Just my opinion, but keys to the game were ball control, defense and not turning the ball over (too much) that won that game.
I'd rank Dallas reasons for success: DEF (as a whole), OL, Zeke, Dak, Cooper.
He's playing inspired, and it's effecting the team around him.
Good for him.
Look, I dont think Dak is one of the leagues best QBs, but hes showing up to be a solid midlevel starter.
Not trying to turn this into a Eli-debate, but it just screams of stupidity not to give Dak credit for his playmaking ability that helped get his team INTO the playoffs and now DEEPER thru the playoffs.
But this is kind of like saying "all Joe Flacco does is win" in 2012.
Prescott is 1 - 1 in the playoffs.
He had a 13 - 3 rookie season where they lost their first playoff game and then two mediocre seasons (W/L)
Let's let him win a few more meaningful games before giving him the "all he does is win" moniker.
Its frustrating to be sure. I'm certainly in the minority here I'm sure, but I think he could extend plays more if he wanted to regardless of his age. I see it once in a blue moon in these past two years. He limits himself for whatever reason (e.g. not getting hurt).
This is what has irritated me most about Eli. He could be better if he got out of his standard routine of teaching route concepts and depths to receivers.
If he said to his wife and kids; "If I die out on the field, then so be it", he would open up the field.
And the defense really won that game last night. Offense made enough plays to win against a team that was stubborn offensively.
It was a ballsy and very successful in-season move. Legit question (not Giant bashing): when was the last time NYG did engineer a season-altering in-season move?
Yea because that will ensure that they suck? Give me a fucking break.
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is going to be THE team in the division for the next 2-3 years. Their nucleus is rock solid.
That's what they said about Philly last year.
Philly is once again in the playoffs.
And then use examples like Dak...who has a top defense and OL...
Rarely works out that way. FA defections, injuries, etc., usually detours that. Also, good or bad, the Eagles and Cowboys are thorns in our sides anyway,
-Some People on this board are game to gamers vis a vis their proclamations. The Cowboys could easily shit the bed next week especially Dak, who somehow gets it done.
-Everything is fluid, especially in this era of football, so, aside from the Patriots, most everything is unknowing
Me too, hes still not a very good QB and will choke when it matters.
Because I'm a fucking dork
But, that offense belongs the Ewok. That run yesterday where the Seahawk safety lost outside contain and the Ewok gashed em with a huge run outside was the play that broke that defense. When I watch the Cowboys its always the Ewok that tells the tale. You take that Ewok out of the game and that entire team becomes susceptible to exposure of their weakness. Cooper made a big difference because hes a legit WR1 and defenses cant just focus on the RB. The Cowboys are a solid team all around, Dak can and does make plays at the QB position. But I dont think hes particularly gifted in his talent one way or another.
Dak is a middling QB, I don't think he event sniffs the top 10. # 14-18.
95% of the QBs in the league would still be playing if they were on that DAL team.
I dont get it, whats one got to do with the other? Hes playing and Aaron Rodgers isnt, so Daks better?
I know you arent saying that, but then why say it at all?
Dak is part of why they are a good team but he isnt a QB that can carry a team. He does what they need to do and Cooper has helped him greatly. Good for him, im fine leaving it at that until he does something amazing.
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which is still playing...
I dont get it, whats one got to do with the other? Hes playing and Aaron Rodgers isnt, so Daks better?
I know you arent saying that, but then why say it at all?
Dak is part of why they are a good team but he isnt a QB that can carry a team. He does what they need to do and Cooper has helped him greatly. Good for him, im fine leaving it at that until he does something amazing.
missing the point...read above as i am very clear.
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too
95% of the QBs in the league would still be playing if they were on that DAL team.
Lmao you cant make this sh*t up
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too
95% of the QBs in the league would still be playing if they were on that DAL team.
lord help me on this sunday...
Eli won two SBs but lets be honest...he had a GREAT defense supporting him. He didnt need to score 35 points to win, just 20 or so. Dak is in the same situation....he ALSO has a GREAT defense and 24 for the most part can be good enough to win playoff games. Eli won both of those SBs with great 4th quarter drives. Dak is doing the same thing....playing big in the 4th quarter. Heck, this may not be saying much but look at Dallas win against us a week ago. What a finish, including the two point. Who does that remind you of? ELI MANNING
I agree Eli can throw a more accurate long pass but Dak can extend plays with his legs, so maybe that is a wash.
One final point....it does appear to me Dallas drafts better and makes wiser offseason pick ups than we do. So often we pick up free agents who turn out to be duds. Dallas picks up fewer but wiser, or so it seems. I guess if I am wrong on this, someone will show me.
Well besides Lawrence. But after that they'll have a lot of tough decisions to make. Elliott wants an extension now according to a report I saw yesterday plus Dak, Cooper, Byron Jones, Jaylon Smith, and La'el Collins are all free agents after next season afaik
That said - Prescott's cap hit is basically that of a kicker right now and it has been this entire time. It is going to change things when that figure jumps up to about 20-25x what it is now.
Where I'll give them credit is that they've been willing to take some risks and it has panned out for them.
I still don't know what happened with La'el Collins behind the scenes or why no one was willing to even spend a 7th round pick on him in the draft - but Dallas wound up cashing in there.
Jaylon Smith was a risky pick, but they were willing to wait it out and now they're reaping the benefits.
Everyone - including me - seemed to think they blew it by passing on Calvin Ridley and taking Vander Esch instead. Can't deny that LVE has been really, really good. That looks like a great pick in retrospect.
And for all of the people who don't think you can be a winning football team when your offense is built around a running back - well; Dallas drafted Elliott 4th overall in 2016 and that's exactly what they're doing there. Everything goes through 21.
Dak has played well lately. He also had a bunch of crappy/nondescript performances earlier in the year. It was only a couple of months ago that he was being questioned by basically everyone and popular opinion seemed to be that he was not a franchise QB. Now, he is again. That's the NFL for you.
I think Dallas has to pay him now - and once they do, they'll have to make some roster sacrifices elsewhere.
Eli won two SBs but lets be honest...he had a GREAT defense supporting him. He didnt need to score 35 points to win, just 20 or so. Dak is in the same situation....he ALSO has a GREAT defense and 24 for the most part can be good enough to win playoff games. Eli won both of those SBs with great 4th quarter drives. Dak is doing the same thing....playing big in the 4th quarter. Heck, this may not be saying much but look at Dallas win against us a week ago. What a finish, including the two point. Who does that remind you of? ELI MANNING
I agree Eli can throw a more accurate long pass but Dak can extend plays with his legs, so maybe that is a wash.
One final point....it does appear to me Dallas drafts better and makes wiser offseason pick ups than we do. So often we pick up free agents who turn out to be duds. Dallas picks up fewer but wiser, or so it seems. I guess if I am wrong on this, someone will show me.
Barely anything about Manning and Prescott are similar. They're pretty much nothing alike.
One of the things that bugs me often about can player evaluations is overlooking the fact that late round selections are also growing on the job. It isnt just high picks who improve. A QB like Dak isnt a finished product and will likely be improving in the future.
+1 Much as I hate the Cowboys, there is no denying that Dak is growing into the job and at this point is a much more effective QB than Eli, mostly do to his ability to extend a play.
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Yeah, I know Dak can run and Eli cant, but the two of them have many similarities. Even their numbers this year are so very similar....look for yourself to see.
Eli won two SBs but lets be honest...he had a GREAT defense supporting him. He didnt need to score 35 points to win, just 20 or so. Dak is in the same situation....he ALSO has a GREAT defense and 24 for the most part can be good enough to win playoff games. Eli won both of those SBs with great 4th quarter drives. Dak is doing the same thing....playing big in the 4th quarter. Heck, this may not be saying much but look at Dallas win against us a week ago. What a finish, including the two point. Who does that remind you of? ELI MANNING
I agree Eli can throw a more accurate long pass but Dak can extend plays with his legs, so maybe that is a wash.
One final point....it does appear to me Dallas drafts better and makes wiser offseason pick ups than we do. So often we pick up free agents who turn out to be duds. Dallas picks up fewer but wiser, or so it seems. I guess if I am wrong on this, someone will show me.
Barely anything about Manning and Prescott are similar. They're pretty much nothing alike.
You didnt read the post. Sigh....
One major point I made to make things simple for you....both were not required to score a lot of points behind great defenses.
Do you need me to bold it for you?
Maybe you didn't read it. They don't have "many" similarities. Basically nothing about them is comparable or similar. Your post is a bunch of nothing.
He has single handily transformed that offense. Elliott l, Dak, and the OL get the pub..... but hes their real MVP. Without him, their offense is middle of road at best.
Yeah, definitely well worth the first round pick so far.
If the point of draft picks is to acquire very good players with them, the Cowboys certainly did so.
Second, please stop espousing that there are similarities between Dak and Eli. Other than both having played their college football in Mississippi, and both being the QBs for NFC East teams, they share no similarities. Dak has played in two playoff games and has actually played pretty well. It took a herculean effort from Rodgers to beat them a couple years back. But please get back to me when he overcomes, and simultaneously outplays the opposing QB, something akin to the following:
1) 13-3 No. 1 seed on the road;
2) 13-3 No. 2 seed on the road;
3) 18-0 AFC champion on a neutral site;
4) 15-1 No. 1 seed on the road;
5) 13-3 No. 2 seed on the road;
6) 13-3 AFC champion on a neutral site.
Again, there are very little to no similarities between Eli and Dak. He is never going to throw for 50K career yards or 350+ career touchdowns. In fairness, he's also not going to throw over 230+ interceptions. That's because he is a completely different QB than Eli. That doesn't mean he won't have or continue to sustain a successful career as a good QB. But his greatest current value is his cost control. See what happened to the Seahawks and Dallas has not had anywhere near the success Seattle had with Russell Wilson. I beg, please stop with the STUPID and start basing opinions on facts.
He posted a couple of days ago that Dak has 14 4th quarter comebacks.
The number is actually 8 and it ranks him 24th since he came into the league.
But we'll likely see the career arc of Dak on display next week. When he'll have to get into a shootout in a critical game, he'll come out on the short end of the stick.