Looks like we see how important QB play really is. The Ravens had the superior defense but it was the QB that decided the game.
And long term who do you think will go farther over the next 5+ years - The Ravens, or the Colts and Chiefs with their super QB's? The Ravens have the superior D. Why not them? I think if we're honest we know it's the Qb's of Mahomes and Luck.
The NFL has made it a point to favor the offense. The QB is the most important position on the football field. To blindly deny this is foolish. IF IF IF IF IF Haskins (or Jones) are expected to be good to very good QB;s by the 2020 season-- you take them and don't look back. The edge rusher can NOT influence the game like the QB unless the rusher is "Lawrence Taylor" especially nowadays with such "favorable offensive rules" unlike our days with guys like LT.
It's the QB's that are most important. The good ones influence the game. Not plug-in QB;s with limited potential unless you want to wait 4+ years before they mature enough to be effective in playoff football. You look to get that QB as soon as you can if the opportunity arises instead of blind hope that you might get one "someday" if you pray hard enough.
An elite QB would be fantastic if one is to be had, but forcing picks at any position will keep us in the basement for the foreseeable future.
Reese's OL debacle should have proven that.
Please provide the link where I said ELi wins this game.
An elite QB would be fantastic if one is to be had, but forcing picks at any position will keep us in the basement for the foreseeable future.
Reese's OL debacle should have proven that.
How many teams recently have been going far in playoffs for successive years without the elite QB?
It's early yet, but Trubisky predictably looks like garbage tonight
If you love a QB in this draft at 6... by all means take him. But taking the wrong guy... sets a franchise back 5 years
Seattle and Denver both had remarkable defenses.
You can get on with a game manager quarterback if you have a defense full of really, really good players.
I did give him a break. I said he can be playoff caliber type winning football player when he matures. About 4 plus years. Just saying comparing him to Mahomes and Luck over the next 5 years we know who has the better long-term prospects, right?
As stated previously -- there was talk to build our team like Baltimore and then we can do a "plug-in" QB. What I've read from quite a few posters is to build the OL and Dl then worry about the QB and maybe then you can live with a 2nd rounder or lower tier type. I've argued you can do that for 1 year but cant sustain shit.
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Eli wins that game 10/10
Please provide the link where I said ELi wins this game.
He's... he's not being sarcastic.
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And Seattle both recently won Super Bowls with ridiculous defenses and quarterbacks who just needed to not screw up too much, though in Wilson’s case played a great game. QB play is the most important determinant of a team’s success but you can still win with great defensive play and an efficient offense
Seattle and Denver both had remarkable defenses.
You can get on with a game manager quarterback if you have a defense full of really, really good players.
Jackson would have to improve to be a game manager. Right now he's a sideshow and it was always going to get exposed.
To be fair, I think the Ravens' plan was for Jackson to be the QB a year or two from now. They were hoping to still get something out of Flacco, but their hands were forced.
You don’t need Tom Brady or Peyton Manning in their prime if you have a complete team, but you absolutely need a QBS who can make the throws required to threaten the secondary.
You can win but sustain winning? Russell Wilson has been among the tops as soon as he entered league in 2012. In 2012 his ratings were within top 5.
His ratings were 7 in 2013.
ANd in 2014 had a rating of 10 and a qbr of 6.
And in 2015 he was 1 and a qbr of 8.
It's early yet, but Trubisky predictably looks like garbage tonight
If you love a QB in this draft at 6... by all means take him. But taking the wrong guy... sets a franchise back 5 years
I agree with you about making sure they pick the right one. I did say IF IF IF with Haskins. I know you aren;t arguing with me on this.
But I have a question for you-- what data shows it takes 5 years if you pick the worn QB? IMO Dave G made that up.
Not saying he was wrong for taking Barkley. Just that I think he threw out that number out of thin air. UNless anyone has data?
Jackson has to get better as a passer, but he has time to do it. This was only his 8th start.
You can give him a break sure, but he had the benefit of the #1 D in the NFL + no book on him running that offense for DCs to go by.
As a thrower he isnt NFL calibre and, if history is a guide, his career will trend down soon. As an old school guy who still loves pocket passing, Im surprised people still get distracted by running QBs.
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Mariota was number 2 overall
It's early yet, but Trubisky predictably looks like garbage tonight
If you love a QB in this draft at 6... by all means take him. But taking the wrong guy... sets a franchise back 5 years
I agree with you about making sure they pick the right one. I did say IF IF IF with Haskins. I know you aren;t arguing with me on this.
But I have a question for you-- what data shows it takes 5 years if you pick the worn QB? IMO Dave G made that up.
Not saying he was wrong for taking Barkley. Just that I think he threw out that number out of thin air. UNless anyone has data?
I didn't hear DG say anything about 5 years. But you're going to give a rookie 4 year contract and even if he sucks the first two you're going to dismiss it for him being young. It's at least a 4 year commitment. I threw in an extra year for no scientific reason ... call it 4-5 years
Jackson has to get better as a passer, but he has time to do it. This was only his 8th start.
Unless the Ravens OL goes to shit and he spends the next 6 years running for his life!
Game managers have to throw the ball at least adequately. Game managers can't fumble multiple times and miss wide open receivers the few times they are called on to make plays
Jackson isn't a game manager - he is strictly a one-dimensional running QB
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I don’t like the long-term prospects of any running QB, but let’s give the guy a break.
You can give him a break sure, but he had the benefit of the #1 D in the NFL + no book on him running that offense for DCs to go by.
As a thrower he isnt NFL calibre and, if history is a guide, his career will trend down soon. As an old school guy who still loves pocket passing, Im surprised people still get distracted by running QBs.
I agree. I couldn't believe listening to the old New England Linebacker on 1st take that he said Baltimore would win because the league had yet to figure him out. I was surprised. It's a freaking wishbone. Then I heard that CLeveland actually did slow them down late.
ANyways a wishbone you can always stop it with speed if you have the personnel.
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They could not handle the LA pass rush.
Jackson has to get better as a passer, but he has time to do it. This was only his 8th start.
Unless the Ravens OL goes to shit and he spends the next 6 years running for his life!
That applies to any QB. That would be my top focus for Baltimore.
It is clear that we need keep fixing the oline, but we are not going to go far or win a Super Bowl with out a pass rush.
Eli complete 48 and 52% of his passes his first two years...
It's early yet, but Trubisky predictably looks like garbage tonight
If you love a QB in this draft at 6... by all means take him. But taking the wrong guy... sets a franchise back 5 years
Trying to convince idiots of reaching is useless. Reaching is a recipe for disaster. Flowers anyone? At this point I hope the Giants take a QB so these fucking tortured angst ridden threads just stop.
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In comment 14250553 MetsAreBack said:
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Mariota was number 2 overall
It's early yet, but Trubisky predictably looks like garbage tonight
If you love a QB in this draft at 6... by all means take him. But taking the wrong guy... sets a franchise back 5 years
I agree with you about making sure they pick the right one. I did say IF IF IF with Haskins. I know you aren;t arguing with me on this.
But I have a question for you-- what data shows it takes 5 years if you pick the worn QB? IMO Dave G made that up.
Not saying he was wrong for taking Barkley. Just that I think he threw out that number out of thin air. UNless anyone has data?
I didn't hear DG say anything about 5 years. But you're going to give a rookie 4 year contract and even if he sucks the first two you're going to dismiss it for him being young. It's at least a 4 year commitment. I threw in an extra year for no scientific reason ... call it 4-5 years
The 5 years is based on the 4 year rookie contract and 5th year option. Unless the QB is hot trash, a team will give the player every opportunity to succeed/fail. Hence, if a team picks wrong, they are set back for at least 4 years.
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Who went from complete dogshit as a passer to at least adequate enough to win the playoffs.
Eli complete 48 and 52% of his passes his first two years...
The NFL was much different then. With all the rule changes it has made it harder for the defense. Roethlisberger was an anomaly back then as a rookie QB that actually won and played reasonably well. Now there is at least one rookie QB that plays well. Compare the league leaders that year with the stats this year. The league leaders in passing stats would finish in the 8-12 range this season.
Sad that people are so eager to try to jump to conclusion
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Mariota was number 2 overall
It's early yet, but Trubisky predictably looks like garbage tonight
If you love a QB in this draft at 6... by all means take him. But taking the wrong guy... sets a franchise back 5 years
Trying to convince idiots of reaching is useless. Reaching is a recipe for disaster. Flowers anyone? At this point I hope the Giants take a QB so these fucking tortured angst ridden threads just stop.
I would give serious consideration to Tyree Jackson as a developmental pick on day two but I would still target Jake Fromm in 2020.
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In comment 14250677 Chris684 said:
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Who went from complete dogshit as a passer to at least adequate enough to win the playoffs.
Eli complete 48 and 52% of his passes his first two years...
The NFL was much different then. With all the rule changes it has made it harder for the defense. Roethlisberger was an anomaly back then as a rookie QB that actually won and played reasonably well. Now there is at least one rookie QB that plays well. Compare the league leaders that year with the stats this year. The league leaders in passing stats would finish in the 8-12 range this season.
I don’t care how much the rules have changed 48 and 52% aren’t good in the 2000s. Eli’s completion percentage in 2005 was 31st.
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Who went from complete dogshit as a passer to at least adequate enough to win the playoffs.
do you remember Eli’s first playoff appearance? Made Jackson look like a savvy vet in comparison
Completely different passer profiles and different reasons for struggling.
Silly comparison.
The odds of this being a long-term, working formula for Baltimore - or really anyone - are very slim. You're either dealing with passers too limited to give you anything but a one-dimensional offense or the QB being a major injury risk.
The strategy of cycling through QB's using replaceable, "disposable" mobile QB's is trash and will never work. The players will either not be proficient enough throwing the football, or defenses will figure out how to attack the limited offense before it matters and render it useless.
People fall in love with this stuff too quickly and too easily. Trying to navigate the playoffs without being able to throw the football in this league is basically suicide.
Once in a while a team will get this far doing it... we saw it happen with Tebow in Denver, RG3 in Washington....and it's all the rage.. but defenses either figure out the keys or the QB gets hurt.
Beyond that - you have to have a top flight defense to even compete this way. It never lasts.
Besides, I don't think it's any easier to construct the type of defense and offensive line/ground game necessary with a cheap system QB like this than it is to look for a true NFL passer who is good enough to cover up some minor deficiencies elsewhere.
Football history is full of those guys. Our own Eli is one of them. In fact, for guys who win in the playoffs, that's the normal progression.
To insinuate he was dogshit as a passer or bears any resemblance to the incompetence shown by Jackson is simply trolling.
Great. I'm being flippant here because you deilberately avoided playoff football so allow me to retort--
You want to ignore the point I made of the playoffs and only talk about the regular season. SO if we had the Chiefs offense as I mentioned -- because as we know the QB is most important they averaged 35 ppg. How would the Gmen have done? ANd wiht the COlts - their 27 pg would have gotten them 9-7.
OFC you must think Mahomes and Luck are not better than eli, right (sarcasm)? It appears though despite having a bad d KC has been very successful, right? ANd with the highly touted offense of the Gmen you seem to want to babble about they would be 5-9 with the chiefs defense wiht tow ties.
OFC none of this is real but if you want to be silly and ignore playoff football then I can be just as silly. For example, would Eli be a HOF QB and be known as a great QB if not for his playoff results? YOU CAN:T Have it both ways-- ignore playoff FOOTBALL in one breath and another count it.
One doesn’t exist.
Or not even in the playoffs.
It is clear that we need keep fixing the oline, but we are not going to go far or win a Super Bowl with out a pass rush.
It looked like Rivers was getting killed, didn't it? SO it seems then that Rivers reacted better than Jackson, correct? in the 1st half they gave examples of two plays he'd throw a quick pass in the flat only to get knocked on his ass, didn't they?
What about QB;s with a quick release? They don't need quite as much time, right? Thus the OL while very important not as important as a one-dimenisonal QB who is not a pocket passer, correct?
One doesn’t exist.
OK! I will give you that. Tell me why Dan Marino has never won a Super Bowl?
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Point me to an NFL team that is complete.
One doesn’t exist.
OK! I will give you that. Tell me why Dan Marino has never won a Super Bowl?
You are trying to change the narrative of the thread to fit your pov. I mentioned "contenders" now all of a sudden you want to speak SUprer Bowl Champions only? SO for you if Gmen dont win a super bowl every year it means that year they sucked?
Yep, he’s awful. In 7 games he proved nothing. 160 yards a game lol. And his Wonderlic score of 13 isn’t going to help him moving forward. So glad we didn’t think about drafting him.