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NFT: Mets Discussion

CMicks3110 : 1/6/2019 9:43 pm
Off-Season is not over, but boy has it been an interesting departure from the ultra-conservative Alderson regime.

The thing about the Alderson regime, and I didn't dislike his approach given what he was handed, but he was incredibly risk averse, and he gave up some really good players for that reason. Giving up on Murphy and Justin Turner, especially Murphy when he was clearly coming on was just short-sighted;

waiting out the market for players like Frazier, Vargas, Bruce, and several average relievers seemed reasonable, but they weren't great players, they were value for their prices, but they weren't that good; not making a bold move like trading Harvey when you saw his decline (physically and mentally coming) and the patience they gave to bad players like James Loney, Eric Campbell, Ty Kelly, John Mayberry, Hansel Robles; not to mention that idiotic signing of Michael Cuddyer. Was really annoying. They ran their baseball ops office scared. Their patience paid off in maximizing the return on some trades, but they also got lucky. No one knew Syndergaard would be Thor.

The current approach, has not been similar to the Omar regime which utilized Free Agency for bringing in talent, and got the benefit of having 2 super stars in their early 20s. The brodie regime seems very similar - and I know it has been mentioned - to the DiPoto model in Seattle. And DiPoto has had reasonable success, probably slightly above average. And I'm not sure of their many trades, who they really lost of any value that was better than letting Turner and Murphy walk.

For those crying about losing prospects, the only one I see as a huge loss is Kelenic. I have never been a big believer in Dunn, and some of these other prospects I don't see as anything more than future fringe players and lottery tickets.

Brodie's approach seems to be very present focused. He's identifying holes and he's filling those holes, and also trying to provide reasonable depth so that the disparity between a Syndergaard and deGrom - if they are lost for any period of time - is not PJ Conlon and Chris Flexen or some other nobody. He is being proactive, trying to find every last edge, and I think being active can be a good thing, especially when you're dealing with some low-stakes moves.

I'm not saying this is the best approach, but it's new, and worth exploring this as a business model.

So where are we now? strictly focusing on the Major League Level [/]b and accounting for players lost in trade, free agency, and last year's trading deadline. And adding trade acquisitions, free agency signings, promotions and returning injured players

[b] lost
: Bruce, Swarzak, Plawecki, Reyes, Cabrera, Jose Bautista, Flores, Mesoraco, Blevins, Harvey (are any of these players really all that valuable?)

gained : Cano, Diaz, Ramos, Familia, d'Arnaud, Lagares, Broxton, JD Davis

We now basically have 8 Legit All Star Players : deGrom, Syndergaad, Wheeler, Cano, Conforto, Ramos, Cespedes (when healthy), and Nimmo

2 players who have previously made the all-star team: Frazier, Familia

2 up and coming players: Rosario, Alonso, Matz (if he can stay healthy)

5 {b] useful role players [/b]: McNeil, Rivera, d'Arnaud, Lugo, Gsellman, J.D. Davis, Broxton, Lagares

What are we really missing? Probably a loogy a big bat until Ces comes back.

This years team - if you can ignore the loss of kelenic - should be vastly improved from last year's team. We won 77 games with players likes of Nido, Oswalt, Vargas, Austin Jackson, Reyes, Jose Bautista, Adrian Gonzalez, and Harvey getting a ton of playing time.

I don't know about you, but my glass is half full and I'm buying on the 2019 Mets. I think we have a chance to be damn good.



Nice Post CMicks  
Earl the goat : 1/6/2019 9:48 pm : link
I believe Diaz alone may add 5-10 wins
The bullpen sucked last year and Diaz is a Stud
Seriously, our bench this year  
CMicks3110 : 1/6/2019 9:56 pm : link
could be
Keon Broxton, Jeff McNeil, TJ Rivera, Travis d'Arnaud, and JD Davis. Any one of them could be the next Max Muncy, but all can really hit or play great defense or both. And this doesn't preclude any future deal. Plus all these guys, with the exception of d'Arnaud are under control for at least 4 years, and no one is older than 30.
as usual the Mets  
pjcas18 : 1/6/2019 10:06 pm : link
address needs in the most difficult way possible and leave themselves zero margin for error.

the rotation, the strength of the team, has ZERO depth and no one in the minors on the horizon to provide any help.

they need to sign a starter.

the bullpen needs one more piece. and a LOOGY.

and then hope for repeats/upward trajectory/improvement from Nimmo, Conforto, Rosario, McNeil and health.

big time health because the depth is non-existent.

one or two injuries could take the Mets from an 85 - 90 win team to a 70 win team. that's how bad the replacements are in some areas.

Familia was the closer until around the deadline so adding Diaz doesn't give you 5 - 10 wins IMO.
.  
pjcas18 : 1/6/2019 10:17 pm : link

Mets Daddy
‏ @MetsDaddy2013
51s52 seconds ago

When the Mets traded Kelenic and Dunn, I hated it, but I understood.

For the life of me, I canít understand the Mets trading Adolph, Santana, and Manea to the Astros.
Hopefully you are right  
Archer : 1/6/2019 10:22 pm : link
I see marginal improvement but not enough to compete for the NL Pennent or a World Series

The Mets are still only better than the Marlins

The Mets need to supliment what they have done

Despite all of the action, the Mets budget is less for next year than it was last year and that includes Cespedes insured contract
The Mets still need a center fielder a left handed relief pitcher, a power hitting third basement, and another starting pitcher
The team is not well conceived
I donít mind having Broxton as a 4th outfielder but they need a quality centerfielder
I like Cano but I fear that McNeil is not going to play as there doesnít appear to be a lot of playing time for him

As they are constructed they will be lucky to win 88 games, which will not win the division
Bit of a stretch  
gmenatlarge : 1/6/2019 10:24 pm : link
Calling Nimmo and Conforto all-star players, yes Conforto was once but hasnít had a full year like one since.
5-10  
DanMetroMan : 1/6/2019 10:29 pm : link
wins? wow. They added Mike Trout when I wasn't paying attention? Diaz ain't adding 5-10 wins lol
i'm optimistic about BVW but the Wilpons still cast a shameful cloud  
Eric on Li : 1/6/2019 10:30 pm : link
I like that BVW is rolling the dice and I have no issue going for it. But part of going for it should be increasing the budget - and if we get to opening day and that hasn't happened MLB should take the team away from the Wilpons because if they are not spending now then when? Did they make the moves the past couple days because they see some hidden gems or are they giving up prospects because it's cheaper than just spending a little money? While it's easy to say most prospects are lotto tickets that don't work out, tradeable prospects are still a very finite currency. They basically hollowed out the entire 2018 draft class, which had the most promising early returns in years, when they could have just spent a little more money and also kept prospects.

Not to state the obvious but they need to win 90+ games and for that to happen a lot is riding on their evaluations to work out. Cano needs to defy the aging curve. Diaz needs to defy the year to year volatility of closers. Their 2 injury prone catchers need to stay healthy. The entire pitching staff needs to stay healthy because there's still minimal depth. The guys they just traded for need to be better than what they already had (Flores/Rivera). For a guy who said he wanted to minimize "ifs" it would have been a lot simpler to find a creative way to bag Harper or Machado as opposed to having Cano on the books for $20m per year until 2023.
RE: as usual the Mets  
Eric on Li : 1/6/2019 10:33 pm : link
In comment 14251543 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
address needs in the most difficult way possible and leave themselves zero margin for error.


one or two injuries could take the Mets from an 85 - 90 win team to a 70 win team. that's how bad the replacements are in some areas.


this is a more succinct version of my thoughts. I'd only add to it that they also hollowed out their farm so if they don't win they've set themselves back further than if they'd just repeated the alderson years and added some FA that didn't work out.
Rivera's  
DanMetroMan : 1/6/2019 10:37 pm : link
best season ever he was worth 3.2 fWAR. Now that's a monster season over 70 innings but no closer in the history of the sport has been worth 5-10 additional wins. It defies all logic. The Mets were 27th in blown saves. The bullpen was not good but if the Mets get 5 total fWAR from Diaz and Familia it's a home run let alone 5-10 OVER what they had last year.
Agree that we've had a solid offseason so far.  
ZGiants98 : 1/6/2019 10:48 pm : link
Dont necessarily agree with shitting all over Alderson and some of what you mentioned is revisionist history at best. When were we supposed to sell high on Harvey? After the WS year when he was arguably the MVP of the whole season?

Either way we filled 4 major holes with all stars this offseason. Real talent, not guys like Frazier or Bruce who IMO were only supposed to help usher in the younger guys like Nimmo, Rosario, and Smith anyway.

Also, the last week was about adding depth, something Mets fans always cry we never accomplish. We upgraded our SP depth, our OF depth, and IF depth. I dont see a 5'6 Santana who's played a few months of professional ball a loss... I just dont. Some of those MMO guys like Mayer and Metsdaddy get a little attached to prospects and thats fine but that doesnt make the deals bad or wrong.

Sure Kelenic stung earlier but 30 teams out of 30 give up Kelenic for a 24 year old Diaz.

We are in a good place and our team is solid. It has some foundation to it now. Just need to fill out the roster with a couple more pieces. Still would like an OF and more bullpen help. Adding another SP would be a luxury and if it happens great.. if not Im fine rolling into 2019 with the best rotation in the NL again that now has Walker Lockett, Santiago, Lugo, Gesellman, Oswalt, Flexen, ect as depth now. It would be great to shed some salary too now if we can find takers for Frazier, Lagares, etc.
Fun but same ole Wilpon Ponzi budget  
giantsFC : 1/6/2019 11:06 pm : link
Love the trades but the results are still hoping a lot falls into place.

This gm has already said 2 things that are gonna end his regime very fast w media enlightenment in NY: they are the team to beat in NL EAST & he didnít want to rely in what ifs and potential (these deals are all that and then some)

Also can we retire the term LOOGY? Itís the absolute worst.
Yes weíve wanted depth but giving up top 10-15 prospects  
Eric on Li : 1/6/2019 11:07 pm : link
is not a depth move in the offseason. If you havenít improved your team more than you would by spending $3-5m on a 1 year vet and Davis isnít at minimum a big upgrade on Flores or Dom Smith it was a terrible use of assets. This trade works out if heís the next Laureno or Marwin, if heís no better than Bautista last year itís a disaster.
RE: Fun but same ole Wilpon Ponzi budget  
ZGiants98 : 1/6/2019 11:09 pm : link
In comment 14251599 giantsFC said:
Quote:
Love the trades but the results are still hoping a lot falls into place.

This gm has already said 2 things that are gonna end his regime very fast w media enlightenment in NY: they are the team to beat in NL EAST & he didnít want to rely in what ifs and potential (these deals are all that and then some)

Also can we retire the term LOOGY? Itís the absolute worst.


What is he supposed to say? He sees us a 2nd place team? Nothing wrong with confidence. I dont think anyone sees us as the best team in the NL obviously. Most probably see us as a WC team contender now that could be on the cusp of more with another piece or two.
RE: Yes weíve wanted depth but giving up top 10-15 prospects  
ZGiants98 : 1/6/2019 11:14 pm : link
In comment 14251601 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
is not a depth move in the offseason. If you havenít improved your team more than you would by spending $3-5m on a 1 year vet and Davis isnít at minimum a big upgrade on Flores or Dom Smith it was a terrible use of assets. This trade works out if heís the next Laureno or Marwin, if heís no better than Bautista last year itís a disaster.


10-15 prospects? Where are you getting that number? Some of those were used to acquire Diaz and Cano. Obviously those arent depth pieces. The Wahl deal? Really? We literally HAD to trade Wahl. We had WAY too many relievers on the 40 man. Even if we signed an OF to a roster spot we still probably end up cutting his ass. So what are we talking about really? The JD Davis deal who ALSO is a prospect only closer and more major league ready?? Not to mention, as uninspiring as they may be, we also brought back two prospects in the Plawecki deal. Sorry. I dont get it.
Aside from the big Cano/Diaz deal  
ZGiants98 : 1/6/2019 11:24 pm : link
Which we've all hashed over a million times our top 10 has remained untouched. We still have Alonso, Gimenez, Mauricio, Szapucki, Peterson, Kay, Humphries, ect.

In fact JD Davis likely cracks our top 10 easy if he still had eligibility.

Guys like Santana and Adolph and Wahl are 100% replaceable and can be found in every draft.

We didn't trade away the world.

Santana was rated #10 or #11 by most reputable services  
Eric on Li : 1/6/2019 11:28 pm : link
BP had him #11, Logenhagen (FG) said he was going to be #10. Sickels had him #11. BP also had Adolph at #12. DMM's annual poll had them #11 and #18. BA didn't have either in their top 10 but not sure how they rated them other than that. Considering both only debuted last year they are obviously high variance going forward but they were both easily in the top 10-15 discussion prior to this deal. If we gave up both of them for a younger version of what we got from Bautista/Flores last year that's a pretty shitty usage of assets.
Yes and again...  
ZGiants98 : 1/6/2019 11:37 pm : link
JD Davis was ALREADY listed as being a top 10 Houston prospect heading into 2018 (Their system was a lot better than ours) and that's before he likely improved his value with a solid year in AAA. So what is the concern exactly? We traded a 10-15 guy for somebody that probably ranks as a 3-7 guy (if he didn't pass eligibility). How is that concerning or an issue?

And why does JD Davis have to perform this year to justify it? Why can't he stay in Syracuse all year and rake and be ready if an injury hits? I dont think he has to do anything personally. We traded away a few 18 year old lottery tickets for a young guy a lot closer. That's about it.
he's turning 26 in April (only 1 year younger than freaking flores)  
Eric on Li : 1/6/2019 11:55 pm : link
there's a reason he's no longer considered a prospect. If he's raking in AAA with no clear path to being a major league starter bc he's blocked by Alonso/Mcneil/Frazier, how does that make him any different than Dom Smith (other than being 3 years older)?

I am not trying to crap on Davis. I see the possible upside. I still haven't given up on Dom Smith for that matter too. Either could be late bloomers. But to develop they have to get regular playing time. We probably should have been looking to trade Dom Smith for the type package Houston got today instead of adding another guy who needs at bats against MLB pitching we don't have available.
You can distort the age thing  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 12:09 am : link
all day long. Alonso flew through our system as fast as he could have and is 24. What's the point? Flores was in our system at 16. The only reason JD Davis isnt a prospect is because his 76 career games put him over the eligibility limit. It literally has nothing to do with his age. The only reason he was ever actually blocked was because of Bregman.

As for where he fits in our organization why are you so focused on him getting blocked by Frazier or Smith? Are Santana and Adolph blocked by Rosario and Nimmo?? I dont get it. We added a talented guy with upside who's close. That's it. He has options. He can go to Syracuse. Or maybe he finds an opening and runs with it.
I do agree that Smith has gotten a raw deal here...  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 12:20 am : link
I just think at this point the position is Alonso's to lose and Smith can't really play anywhere else. It wouldn't surprise me if he turned into a .300 hitter with 15 HR pop for another team eventually. And who knows... Maybe Alonso goes down and he yet gets a chance. We'll see. I dont hate having options though.
RE: I do agree that Smith has gotten a raw deal here...  
giantsFC : 1/7/2019 12:32 am : link
In comment 14251635 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
I just think at this point the position is Alonso's to lose and Smith can't really play anywhere else. It wouldn't surprise me if he turned into a .300 hitter with 15 HR pop for another team eventually. And who knows... Maybe Alonso goes down and he yet gets a chance. We'll see. I dont hate having options though.

*adjusted to modern baseball player offensive numbers: woundnt surprise to see smith turn into a .245 hitter w 20 HRís*

I still hold out hope he is a decent bench piece.

Kevin Mitchell comes to mind. Now if they could just assemble the starting lineup like 1986 😂
With all these new guys  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 1:15 am : link
competing for spots, you kind of forget this is going to be a huge spring for a bunch of other guys fighting for arguably their last chances. Cecchini, TJ Rivera, Dom... Even Dilson Herrera is still only 24 and could may make a bench. Should be an exciting ST.
Mets  
TyreeHelmet : 1/7/2019 4:46 am : link
Do not have 8 or 9 all stars.

They left themselves zero margin for error. Just like recent years, if everything breaks right and guys stay healthy- they can compete.

And their payroll has been reduced. I thought Brodie was going to convince the Wilpons to spend? Instead they just bought a better mouthpiece than Sandy.
Iím a Yankees fan  
mattyblue : 1/7/2019 6:20 am : link
but I always like to see the Mets do well and I think there is good reason to be optimistic about them this year. I think they are due to have a good year, without really following closely it seems they made some good moves. However, I have been absolutely shocked they didnít even bother trying to grab Harper or even Machado. They have a still fairly new stadium in a gigantic market and the owner is holding them back. I am sure they still draw fans well and a big name hitter with that staff would go a long way. I donít know why Wilpon doesnít just sell the team to someone who wants to truly win.
With Santana and Adolph  
pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 8:24 am : link
who I don't love like Kelenic, though Santana has interesting upside, the Mets traded away depth with upside that was farther away from contributing for lottery tickets that are closer to helping now.

the reason fans (some) don't like this is because it appears to most the Mets did this to avoid spending money on free agents who could have filled the exact same role, with less risk, without costing prospects.

This is what people mean by half-assing things.

I hope Davis works out, but being 9 one year on the Astros top prospect list at 29 years old, doesn't make you that much more interesting than a guy who is 19 and is #11 on the Mets list.

Only thing I'll agree with is Santana had a lot of competition. Adolph didn't and was older and should/could have moved quickly through the Mets system.

but the point remains the same.
Sorry  
pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 8:25 am : link
25 years old, not 29 years old.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 9:20 am : link
didn't love any of their moves yesterday. Davis is limited even if he does learn to hit MLB pitching and I really liked some of the guys they moved. I didn't understand the Plawecki move at all. Based dumped him for nada.
Pretty ugly now  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 9:28 am : link
Rookie maximums for at-bats (130), games pitched (30) or innings (50) in the major leagues"

If the 2 leaders are within 5% of each other, or the leader has less than 30% there will be a run-off between the top 2. If a run-off results in a tie the tiebreaker will be vote total in the previous poll, we will continue to "go back" in the polls until there is a clear leader.

*Jeff McNeil is ineligible
*Chris Flexen is ineligible
*Drew Smith is ineligible
*Tyler Bashlor is ineligible

1) Andres Gimenez (SS) AA 19/37 votes- 51%
2) Peter Alonso (1B) AAA 24/36 votes- 67%
3) Ronny Mauricio (SS) Kingsport 12/33-36%
4) Mark Vientos (3b) Kingsport 16/31-52%
5) David Peterson (LHP) A+ 21/31- 68%
6) Franklyn Kilome (RHP) AA 20/33-61%
7) Thomas Szapucki (LHP) A 18/32-56%
8) Shervyen Newton (SS) Kingsport 12/30-40%, Run-off with Anthony Kay 17/33-52%
9) Anthony Kay (LHP) AA 18/26-69%
10) Simeon Woods-Richardson (RHP) Kingsport 12/30-40%
11) Will Toffey (3B) 10/29-34%, run-off with Cecchini 15/27-56%
12) Gavin Cecchini (2b) 14/26-46%
13) Francisco Alvarez (C) 9/26-35%
14) Dez Lindsay (OF) 7/18-39%
15) Tony Dibrell (RHP) 9/23-39%
16) Jordan Humphreys (RHP) 7/21-33%, Run-off with Nido 18/24-75%
17) Junior Santos (RHP) 6/28-21%, Run-off with Nido 11/20-55%
18) Tomas Nido (C) 10/23-43%
19) Luis Guillorme (SS) 9/24-38%
20) Adrian Hernandez 6/26-23%, run-off with Wahl/Cortes 8/15-53%
21) Carlos Cortes (2b) 8/21-38%
22) Steven Villines (RHP) 4/16 25%, Run-off with Thompson/Wahl 9/23-39%
23) David Thompson (3b) 8/23-35%
24) Ali Sanchez (C) 9/17-53%
25) Eric Hanhold (RHP) 7/21-33%, run-off 7/20-35%
26) Luis Carpio (IF) 4/18-22%, runoff with Uriarte 9/14-64%
27) Stanley Consuegra (OF) 4/20-20%, runoff with Uriarte/Valdez 6/17-35%, advances due to more votes in previous poll
28) Juan Uriarte (C) 4/19-21%
29) Freddy Valdez (OF) 7/17-41%
30) Daniel Zamora (LHP) 3/17-18%, run-off with Montes De Oca 10/12-83%
31) Jaylen Palmer (??) 3/12-25%, run-off with Montes de Oca/Vilera 9/16-56%
32) Ryley Gilliam (RHP) 5/22-23%, run-off with Manea 8/16-50%, advances due to more votes in previous poll
33) Matt Winaker (OF) 4/22-18
34) Kyle Dowdy (RHP) 6/20-30%, run-off with Vilera 9/12-75%
35) Jaison Vilera (RHP) 6/17-35%
36) Jose Miguel Medina(OF) 6/17-24%
37) Jeremy Vasquez (1b) 3/18-17% run-off with MDO/Manea/Viall 3/7-43%
38) Patrick Mazeika (C) 4/13-31%
Davis is a much better asset than Smith IMO  
Metnut : 1/7/2019 9:30 am : link
JD Davis in 2017 put up a 135 wRC in AA and 142 in limited AAA ABs. He put up a 156 wRC in AAA last year.

Dominic Smith put up an 87 wRC in 375 AAA ABs last year. He was flat out awful in the PCL.

Plwecki trade is a head scratcher  
pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 9:32 am : link
the Red Sox just won the WS with worse catchers than Plawecki.
RE: Plwecki trade is a head scratcher  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14251803 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
the Red Sox just won the WS with worse catchers than Plawecki.


Really an odd move given the return when TDA is coming off of TJ surgery, oft-injured (like Ramos) and more expensive. I've never been big on Plawecki but at that price I'd be praising the Mets for what the Indians did.
My thoughts on yesterday's trades  
Mike in NY : 1/7/2019 9:40 am : link
I do like Davis and if he can become a better version of Steve Pearce that is useful considering you have years of team control with Davis. Last 3 years, Steve Pearce has been getting paid $6.25 Million per year. If you are paying a fraction of that to Davis, that is more money for the bullpen and other needs. I am not so worked up over losing Santana because the Mets actually do have a lot of IF depth among their top prospects (OF, Pitching, and middle of the order bats are the biggest need). Losing Adolph hurts more because I actually liked his potential. I would have preferred as a second piece if the Astros wanted an OF prospect moving someone like Winaker or Brodey. What also makes losing Adolph worse is that we already dealt Kelenic so we really do not have any legit OF prospects playing in full season ball to start 2019. I know he was far away, but there is a non-zero chance that Kelenic turns into Christian Yelich. Would you trade that for Edwin Diaz? I am not so sure. If his peak is Mark Kotsay and Diaz stays the closer he has been and doesn't turn into J.J. Putz then the Mets came out ahead, but not sure I would have taken that risk on a closer.

Kevin Plawecki deal I do not get. Teams will always face a numbers crunch at the end of Spring Training with too many guys out of options. Why the rush to acquire a long reliever/spot starter and a minor league IF? Plawecki may not have a role for us, but for other teams he is an improvement over their back-up catcher and I think the return could have been better had we waited.
RE: RE: Plwecki trade is a head scratcher  
Mike in NY : 1/7/2019 9:43 am : link
In comment 14251813 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14251803 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


the Red Sox just won the WS with worse catchers than Plawecki.



Really an odd move given the return when TDA is coming off of TJ surgery, oft-injured (like Ramos) and more expensive. I've never been big on Plawecki but at that price I'd be praising the Mets for what the Indians did.


The only logical reasons I see are (1) the Mets value pitch framing stats and/or (2) the pitching staff prefers TdA to Plawecki on some intangibles like calling a game
OF  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 9:45 am : link
is now unbelievably bad in the system top OF prospects...

Lindsay, Adrian Hernandez, Consuegra, Valdez, Haggerty

The middle 3 would be lucky to be playing in a AA game in 3 years left along helping the Mets
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 9:45 am : link
Not sure if this is official but looks like Mets 2018 3rd rounder Carlos Cortes has already been moved off of 2b per @fangraphs. Million dollar bonus for tiny sub-par athlete LF/1b? Woof #Mets
Brewers  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 9:49 am : link
with heavy interest in Bumgarner.
RE: .  
Mike in NY : 1/7/2019 10:08 am : link
In comment 14251825 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Not sure if this is official but looks like Mets 2018 3rd rounder Carlos Cortes has already been moved off of 2b per @fangraphs. Million dollar bonus for tiny sub-par athlete LF/1b? Woof #Mets


As opposed to going overslot for a 3rd String catcher who can't hit
the only reason I can think of to dump Plaw for that return is if a FA  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 10:20 am : link
move is on the way. Maldonado is still out there and as a backup on a 1 year deal he'd be an upgrade on Plawecki (steamer agrees). Otherwise it makes no sense whatsover because we are going to end up carrying Nido (negative fwar last year, 20 wrc+) to break ST. And he's 1 injury away from major playing time again if something happens to Ramos. I think we all remember how last May/June went with the Lobaton/Nido platoon.

Honestly, 1 of the few positive things I can say about yesterday's moves are that they make it seem like there are still a bunch of moves yet to come. Really hate that we've purged roughly 1/4 of our top 20 prospects this offseason - and most of them guys with high upside variance since they were only drafted last year.
Some  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 10:24 am : link
other notes from FG's

acknowledge Christian James is upper 80's (there was some discussion over his pure stuff recently), not particularly high on Humphreys.


and this scary note

team salary  
sshin05 : 1/7/2019 10:24 am : link
hasnt really budged so BVW has to improve the team by trading assets. I think he really overpaid for some players where he could have had cheaper elsewhere. This is all on the Wilpons, it has their signature written all over it.
Fangraphs posted their top 25 met prospects today  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 10:30 am : link
a few interesting things different than other lists, though I'd also caution that they can be a little bit out of the box. Last year they had the aforementioned Tomas Nido at #3 and Peter Alonso at #7.

Gimenez, Alonso, Vientos, Mauricio all moved up to 50 grade prospects. They called Kelenic a top 100 prospect so he presumably would have been in that tier as well, and Santana would have been #10.

I know I've beaten the dead horse on Gimenez being under-ranked numerous times, but here's a statistical question that I think kind of illustrates this point. They graded 4 of his tools 55 or better (hit, run, throw, D). His power grades out at 45. Just mathematically, shouldn't that make him more of a 55 grade prospect or is power that heavily weighted vs. the other tools?
Top 25 Prospects: New York Mets - ( New Window )
that's an extremely scary note given good orgs seem to be raiding us  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 10:31 am : link
at the low minors level.
Kelenic  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 10:33 am : link
is considered a better prospect than Mauricio or Vientos. Neither will be top 100 prospects on most lists. Kelenic will be. Most will have him higher than any prospect in the Mets system (rightly or wrongly) and easily top 3.
RE: Kelenic  
Jay on the Island : 1/7/2019 10:34 am : link
In comment 14251901 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is considered a better prospect than Mauricio or Vientos. Neither will be top 100 prospects on most lists. Kelenic will be. Most will have him higher than any prospect in the Mets system (rightly or wrongly) and easily top 3.

If that is true I hope the Braves swoop in and acquire Vientos and/or Mauricio. I have been a big fan of Vientos since the draft.
RE: RE: Kelenic  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14251905 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14251901 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is considered a better prospect than Mauricio or Vientos. Neither will be top 100 prospects on most lists. Kelenic will be. Most will have him higher than any prospect in the Mets system (rightly or wrongly) and easily top 3.


If that is true I hope the Braves swoop in and acquire Vientos and/or Mauricio. I have been a big fan of Vientos since the draft.


I didn't mean to imply they are "available". But Law said his rough list has Kelenic 20-40 for 2019. Gimenez may be around 40 on some lists but nowhere near 20 and Alonso won't be that higher either. RH 1b with zero defensive value.
I really hate  
sshin05 : 1/7/2019 10:52 am : link
how the Wilpons is managing the Mets.
..  
Named Later : 1/7/2019 11:03 am : link
As long as we're posting our thoughts, here's mine --

I thought Brody misused his leverage in the Cano trade. When it surfaced that he was taking on a lot of Cano's salary......he didn't need to include those better prospects.

He had Seattle right where he wanted them. The Mariners were asking for Gimenez ?? Give them Gimenez. The Mets had 3 good SS kids in the minors, plus a pretty good one in the majors. Given the scarcity of good OF prospects -- I would have kept Kelenic. My best offer would have been the Money plus Gimenez and maybe a lower grade pitcher. Take it or leave it.

So the Cano trade went down the way it did....but it shaded the way I view every move he's made since. This weekend's moves look a little like moves for move's sake. I wouldn't have left the Catching ranks so thin. Relying on TdA and Nido as primary backups was risky, and trading away the next best C in the system was riskier still. I saw Manea play with Columbia last year -- he was certainly adequate, and was progressing thru their system.

All of these trades may prove to be Stable Genius type moves. Or we may be reading about our players on other teams fro the next 10 years.
RE: RE: Kelenic  
pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14251905 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14251901 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is considered a better prospect than Mauricio or Vientos. Neither will be top 100 prospects on most lists. Kelenic will be. Most will have him higher than any prospect in the Mets system (rightly or wrongly) and easily top 3.


If that is true I hope the Braves swoop in and acquire Vientos and/or Mauricio. I have been a big fan of Vientos since the draft.


Have the Braves signed Kelly Johnson yet? He's like crack to the Mets front office.
just throwing this out there - the Davis trade makes a lot more sense  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 11:44 am : link
if Dom Smith (and/or Frazier for that matter) gets traded. Especially if they can get more in return for Smith than they gave up yesterday. Would be nice to replenish some low level prospects if there's nothing good at the MLB level on the table for Dom.
RE: just throwing this out there - the Davis trade makes a lot more sense  
Metnut : 1/7/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14252056 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
if Dom Smith (and/or Frazier for that matter) gets traded. Especially if they can get more in return for Smith than they gave up yesterday. Would be nice to replenish some low level prospects if there's nothing good at the MLB level on the table for Dom.


I think it's better than 50% chance that Dom Smith gets moved.

But, I'd be really surprised if the Mets got as much back for Dom than they got for Davis.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 12:40 pm : link
Frazier to Texas just makes far too much sense. They have upper level depth pieces we like so much and they need a 3b and don't want to commit to Moustakas. DeShields, Calhoun, Kiner-Falefa, Reinheimer (jk), Tocci, I like Scott Heineman as guy who potentially could be a strong option vs. lefties
Fuck Fred, Jeff, and Saul  
Optimus-NY : 1/7/2019 12:50 pm : link
Too bad Doubleday fell for their shit. He was a spender and a winner.
Iíd be floored  
Shecky : 1/7/2019 1:01 pm : link
If Mauricio got moved!!!

Low level prospects are seasonal. Value peaks in offseason, plummet once spring ends.
RE: RE: RE: Kelenic  
Jay on the Island : 1/7/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14251979 pjcas18 said:
Quote:

Have the Braves signed Kelly Johnson yet? He's like crack to the Mets front office.

LOL, John Gant from the first time Johnson was traded has turned into a very solid pitcher for the Cards.
RE: Iíd be floored  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14252221 Shecky said:
Quote:
If Mauricio got moved!!!

Low level prospects are seasonal. Value peaks in offseason, plummet once spring ends.


Any thoughts on guys we gave up (and got) yesterday?
Lower levels are stacked, upper are shit  
Shecky : 1/7/2019 1:46 pm : link
So Iím in favor of the shift.
Iíve always loved to follow the super low levels, but understand a guy closer is way more valuable by several fold.

JD Davis really caught my eye last spring several times. tucker was impressive but Davis kept popping up. Not literally. He hit a MONSTER HR las.t hear, I think off Robles. No clue if he will make the final adjustment or not, but your looking at a floor of a four corner backup, ceiling of a hard hitting 3B. Both of which are sorely missing in the upper minors.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/7/2019 4:53 pm : link
Alcides Escobar would be waste of money and a roster spot. Last 3 seasons .4 fWAR TOTAL, below replacement level in 2018. Guillorme could give the Mets that. Trust me. #Mets
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