As I watched the first four games of the playoffs, one thing really popped out at me - outside of the very top teams, the rest of the league is a crapshoot and wide open. The two top defenses (as well as Houston) were bounced, and there really wasn't a theme that ran constant through the winners.
QB play was below average to putrid. One could make a case that outside of Andrew Luck, every other QB was pedestrian at best. Both Chicago and Baltimore, looking back on their season, may draw a conclusion that being in the Top 10 of health played as much of a part in their success as their defenses did, much like the Giants in 2016.
But what this highlights for me as we have the debate on team-building is that I would advocate putting the resources to build the lines and solidify the defense. At this point, the QB seems to be fungible. We could get one last year out of Eli, or replace him at a lower cost and expect similar results. I'd opt for the latter if we could do it.
But, what also becomes glaring in this is that there's only so many places to rebuild from. I know many went apeshit about the Omemeah contract (which, while expensive this year, has little impact forward) and the Solder contract, but the assets simply weren't available. We could have given contracts to the top 5 OL in FA and not have seen much better results. That's key for people who scream that we don't have a plan to understand. How much of a planned roster turnover can be done in one offseason where areas of need didn't have valuable assets available to sign?
There will be a couple decent OL and pass rushers available in FA. If we cut Vernon and use that salary on replacements on the defensive line or at safety/LB, we could get a decent return, then use draft picks to solidify the OL. The cap is not going to be a huge issue this year as we have flexibility to work around it and it rose $14M.
With Barkley in place, building a solid OL and getting a QB to replace Eli will be the key pieces for improvement. It is what the Rams did. They took Gurley, then got their QB, then put together a really solid OL. Based on what we've seen from the mediocrity that was in the playoffs, I do see light at the end of the tunnel.
i also see that the QB conversation isn't likely to be the lynchpin to the success as a lot made it out to be last year.
I don't think the franchise QB model is dead, but you can thrive with a middling guy if the other areas are strong - which is an impact of having a cheaper QB on a rookie contract that can perform.
Adam Schefter
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Bears were +2 in turnovers Sunday vs. Eagles. Home teams that were +2 in the playoffs the past 40 years were 112-4.
Absolutely re-sign Collins. Even tag him for the year if necessary. Too young and talented to let go, imo
Throughout all of the changes to the game, that has stayed consistent.
If you have that, you have a shot every year.
With that said a better overall value investment could be a good Oline mixed with just a good yet athletic QB
Each year, half the playoff teams rotate in and out. If you build a solid foundation on the lines, you at least give yourself a chance to compete every year.
If you have a porous OL like we have had, your chances to compete basically boil down to remaining really healthy.
Throughout all of the changes to the game, that has stayed consistent.
If you have that, you have a shot every year.
I feel the same way of this & its very apparent when watching the Chargers play.
1. Protect the QB
2. Run the ball
3. Rush the other QB
That is what wins.
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you've got to have a good offensive and defensive line.
Throughout all of the changes to the game, that has stayed consistent.
If you have that, you have a shot every year.
I feel the same way of this & its very apparent when watching the Chargers play.
1. Protect the QB
2. Run the ball
3. Rush the other QB
That is what wins.
Didn't Gettleman say this in his first press conference as the Giants GM and he got vilified for it?
In fact, two posters who keep saying we don't have a plan used those words to show how out of touch Gettleman is with reality.
"It's a passing league now and the old fucker wants to run the ball!!!"
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Average of 21 a game. Lots of great defenses. Good special teams (sorry Parkey, you blew it.) The QBs were basically non factors outside Luck in the first half, and a few drives at the end of the game.
Lot of people were high on the play of the QBs yesterday. Sorry it wasnt there. Trubisky had a monster 4th but did nothing in the first 3 quarters.... and had two sure fire INTs dropped. Foles threw 2 INTs, but he was clutch on their last TD drive.. Lamar was embarrassing. And Rivers did nothing all game.
Dak was the 2nd best QB this weekend. Think about that for a second....
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As I watched the first four games of the playoffs, one thing really popped out at me - outside of the very top teams, the rest of the league is a crapshoot and wide open
Each year, half the playoff teams rotate in and out. If you build a solid foundation on the lines, you at least give yourself a chance to compete every year.
If you have a porous OL like we have had, your chances to compete basically boil down to remaining really healthy.
Agree Fats. Wasnt meant to derail thoughts as to building up the lines, only that I think middling QB play gets you middling quality playoff teams too.
Heck, for the love Rivers is getting, the Chargers missed the playoffs 7 out of the past 8 years prior to 2018.
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Average of 21 a game. Lots of great defenses. Good special teams (sorry Parkey, you blew it.) The QBs were basically non factors outside Luck in the first half, and a few drives at the end of the game.
Lot of people were high on the play of the QBs yesterday. Sorry it wasnt there. Trubisky had a monster 4th but did nothing in the first 3 quarters.... and had two sure fire INTs dropped. Foles threw 2 INTs, but he was clutch on their last TD drive.. Lamar was embarrassing. And Rivers did nothing all game.
Dak was the 2nd best QB this weekend. Think about that for a second....
Good point Dep about the good defense and special teams play. This is what separates the playoff and non playoff teams.
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In comment 14251786 Britt in VA said:
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you've got to have a good offensive and defensive line.
Throughout all of the changes to the game, that has stayed consistent.
If you have that, you have a shot every year.
I feel the same way of this & its very apparent when watching the Chargers play.
1. Protect the QB
2. Run the ball
3. Rush the other QB
That is what wins.
Didn't Gettleman say this in his first press conference as the Giants GM and he got vilified for it?
I wouldnt vilify him for SAYING that, not accomplishing it is another story...
Yep. The intensity of playoffs usually slows down scoring and weather. Also HCs dial it down a bit to see how playoff game plays out in first halves.
Heck, for the love Rivers is getting, the Chargers missed the playoffs 7 out of the past 8 years prior to 2018.
I was a bit suprised at the charger playoff drought myself. Seems like they had been in more frequently but obviously not. I think Rivers has played well though so assume their defense was lacking but not sure as I follow AFC far less.
2. Bad FG kicker. Seriously, they were bad.
3. Rivers end of game production. If people saw how many times SD blew a game at the end with a turnover during that time period, you probably wouldnt believe it.
2. Bad FG kicker. Seriously, they were bad.
3. Rivers end of game production. If people saw how many times SD blew a game at the end with a turnover during that time period, you probably wouldnt believe it.
Add piss poor coaching to that mix and thats it in a nutshell.
1) Write off 2019 and cut Eli. Rip off the bandaid and draft a QB if they believe in one coming out, or simply go with Lauletta and use the cap savings and draft to focus fortifying the team along both lines, especially the defense.
2) If the Giants want to be somewhat competitive, stick with Eli to finish out his contract while waiting for 2020 to draft a QB. Utilize cap space for the lines and defense.
Cutting Eli and signing or worse trading for a vet QB who will provide only marginal upgrade will end up costing more than Eli alone salary wise, and I don't think this team can afford to give up draft picks in this coming draft for a QB who won't, in all likelyhood, be a franchise level QB for the next decade. It would be madness in terms of the long-term success of the team.
I personally would prefer to see the team cut Eli and play just play Lauletta next season. Use the cap space and draft to follow a Rams/Dallas blueprint by building up both lines and the defense for a QB in 2020. We should be in position to draft one of the top tier QBs, or be high enough to feasibly trade up for whatever QB we want unless Lauletta surprises which would be a good thing in its own way.
You watched the QBs this weekend and said could Eli have made that play very rarely?
My goodness. No words.
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I look at every play a QB makes now and ask myself could Eli make that play? There are a whole ton of no's and not too many, Eli would have been better in that spot. I agree that that the lines are more important than the QB but I would prefer we look at the league rosters and identify some QBs with the traits we want that haven't been given a shot, acquire the QB and play him next year. I want someone with deep ball accuracy and some mobility. I truly believe this makes our OL look better. If the QB could bail out the OL once in a while with some off schedule big plays it could go a very long way into improving their confidence. It is HARD to know you have to play perfect every pass play.
You watched the QBs this weekend and said could Eli have made that play very rarely?
My goodness. No words.
Even Eli can't fumble as efficiently as LJ!
I just don't understand this at all. Do you think Jackson was making plays yesterday that Eli couldn't make? How about Rivers? How about Foles? Which throws did you see this weekend that Manning couldn't make?
You want a QB with deep ball accuracy? Did you happen to catch the thread last week where the Giants were Top 10 in deep ball attempts (20+ yards), and 1st in completing them (44%).
As far as mobility, I just don't know what some of you watched this year. Eli was more than adequate on designed rollouts and bootlegs. He also moved within the pocket very well made throws while buying time.
I know you think I'm an Eli homer but I just can't let posts like this slide without addressing them, because I believe they are wrong.
2. This is where I think we're way behind...the quality of the coaching on the winning teams was pretty high. Reich and his staff speak for themselves, and I thought Lynn and his staff completely outcoached Harbaugh (until the last 8 minutes or so when they tried to give the game back). Where it's most troubling for the Giants is with Dallas and especially Philly.
I don't think much of Garrett as a head coach, but his staff is strong. Marinelli, Richard, Linehan, Colombo...that's a strong staff that usually has their guys playing cohesively and pulling in the same direction.
Regarding Philly, I think they've done an incredible job salvaging this year when they basically had every excuse to pack it in. Their secondary was gutted by injury, they lost their starting QB, starting RB, missed Tim Jernigan for much of the year, all while dealing with the post Super Bowl hangover. And here they are again in the final 8. When, as I expect, we move on from Shurmur after this year or next we should interview Jim Schwartz as a possible successor. I still think that guy is cut out to be a head coach and a culture builder.
People try to reinvent the wheel every year or outsmart the field, but the fact remains that to be a good football team, you need to check most/all of these boxes.
Special teams matter, too. See.. Parkey, Cody.
If you can't throw the football at all, you won't go far. See... Ravens, Baltimore.
It's actually fairly basic stuff.
The real challenge comes in acquiring the personnel/talent, managing the cap, and scheming players to outperform opponents. Talent and coaching are huge, huge pieces of the puzzle. Every team is gunning for the same things and the resource pool is limited - but it doesn't need to be overcomplicated.
For the Giants...
It's a matter of continuing to build the OL, improving the pass rush, and coming up with a plan for the QB position. Beyond that, we obviously want to continue injecting talent across the roster.
There's a razor thin line between a lot of playoff teams and the teams just below them.
I think a few teams... like New Orleans, LAR and KC are significantly better than the bottom feeding teams in the league (OAK/ARZ) - but there's a mess of teams in the middle and that's closer to where NYG are, in my opinion.
The QB position is the biggest hurdle right now. That has to get figured out before we can really proceed full-bore.
You must be one of the "highly trained reviewers" PFF uses...
Schwartz?
I am not so sure he's the culture builder you think.......doesn't he have the reputation of just the opposite?
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I look at every play a QB makes now and ask myself could Eli make that play? There are a whole ton of no's and not too many, Eli would have been better in that spot. I agree that that the lines are more important than the QB but I would prefer we look at the league rosters and identify some QBs with the traits we want that haven't been given a shot, acquire the QB and play him next year. I want someone with deep ball accuracy and some mobility. I truly believe this makes our OL look better. If the QB could bail out the OL once in a while with some off schedule big plays it could go a very long way into improving their confidence. It is HARD to know you have to play perfect every pass play.
I just don't understand this at all. Do you think Jackson was making plays yesterday that Eli couldn't make? How about Rivers? How about Foles? Which throws did you see this weekend that Manning couldn't make?
I know you think I'm an Eli homer but I just can't let posts like this slide without addressing them, because I believe they are wrong.
Agreed, Britt. I'm in favor of moving on more because of Eli's age than anything else. There were very, very few, if any, throws that I saw this week that I didn't think Eli was capable of making. There were certainly scramble drills and running plays that he is incapable of making, but I don't think he ever could have been to begin with.
That's not to say Eli hasn't declined. He certainly has. But the narrative that he needs a "perfect offensive line" and a top 5 defense to succeed is false. If both of those are average units, the Giants with Eli could contend for a playoff spot. I just don't see them as a viable Super Bowl team in the next few years and Eli is 38, so cutting the cord and starting over makes sense to me personally as much as I appreciate Eli.
Baltimore was unprepared for LA did to stop the run. The Chargers' defensive coaches deserve a lot of credit.
Luck had a larger cap hit than Eli did this year.
Brees did too.
Thegratefulhead : 10:49 am : link : reply
I look at every play a QB makes now and ask myself could Eli make that play? There are a whole ton of no's and not too many, Eli would have been better in that spot. I agree that that the lines are more important than the QB but I would prefer we look at the league rosters and identify some QBs with the traits we want that haven't been given a shot, acquire the QB and play him next year. I want someone with deep ball accuracy and some mobility. I truly believe this makes our OL look better. If the QB could bail out the OL once in a while with some off schedule big plays it could go a very long way into improving their confidence. It is HARD to know you have to play perfect every pass play.
Just look at the Bears-Philly game if you still had any constitution to watch football after the display Jackson displayed earlier. Both QB's were literally floating balls 25+ yards downfield. A couple were caught, a couple were picked off and a few were dropped or incomplete. Not only can Eli do that - he has. The Trubisky pass right before half? Eli did that against Philly - except the DB intercepted it.
What I took away from this weekend was that the QB play was fairly uninspiring in most cases and dreadful in a couple cases. If you don't think Eli could do at least as poorly as that, I really don't know what to say as an agenda is on full display.
Baltimore was unprepared for LA did to stop the run. The Chargers' defensive coaches deserve a lot of credit.
They couldn't run because the Chargers knew that was the only way they could beat them.
They had zero concern over Jackson beating them with his arm and it made the Ravens easy to defend.
The guy had negative passing yards at halftime. You will never win a playoff game in the NFL that way.