He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Lol the dotino argument when has he ever been right? Look I’d take him that’s just me but I always fall into the they take whoever category because I don’t pretend to know who or what they are thinking and they are way more qualified than any of us to make that decision. Just my opinion I think the kid will be a baller just going to take a little time
RE: RE: I’d take him and sit him a year behind Eli Â
A few years ago, post bowl game people weren't sure about Cam Newton either. He wasn't the runaway #1 overall all year but QBs get hyped up, usually have good workouts and get pushed up. He could go top 5.
RE: RE: RE: Eh just don’t think he’s worth the #6 pick Â
a) it means the draftniks can now update their draft boards so we can have an idea what the current conventional wisdom is.
b) it increases the chances that a team will jump ahead of the Giants in order to land Haskins.
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
It's January 7th. A lot can change.
Giants are not drafting Haskins. This will never change. I promise you.
Young, big arm, accurate as hell, adequate mobility, doesn't lock in on receivers, good kid. A lot has to shake out in the pre-draft process but given the current state of affairs at the position on NYG, hard to imagine why he wouldn't be in the mix.
RE: I love when the dupes start to argue with themselves Â
the criticisms of him are not what he does, but that he has too many advantages to be correctly evaluated. He seems to see the field well and throw a very accurate ball. Looks to be able to improvise off schedule although he is not a running QB.
The idea that he is not possibly in play at 6 is jus winging it.
Yeah I heard you. Made no sense the first time or now. I wasn’t hating, I was stating an opinion.
I bet you were on board with drafting a QB last year but if the pick this year is a QB named Haskins you think there will be better talent on the board. SMH
RE: RE: RE: RE: I’d take him and sit him a year behind Eli Â
I rather pass and regret it. Then draft and regret it.
bust factor...based on what?
Don’t think he performs well in constant pressure. I worry about him reading defense at an NFL level. His deep ball struggled for most of the year. His footwork gets sloppy when moving in the pocket.
Think he benfitted greatly going with an OL that dominated most games and WRs who the defenses couldn’t cover.
I think he is years away from being productive. He’s a project.
If the Giants thought he was worth it in the first, I'd be good with the pick.
But there's risk. He plays with a ton of talent around him, has a ton of time each week behind a great offensive line. His ability to read defenses and make plays under duress at the next level is not easy to know. There is significant risk that wouldn't be there if the Giants picked a different position at 6.
But I like him more than I Josh Allen last year and close to how I felt about Darnold.
And gettleman knows this.
It's time to take a QB early.
Haskins, Jones, or Lock are it.
Everyone acting like they are in the know are forgetting that comment.
I prefer Haskins and hope we step up and take him.
Future is now.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers has been playing at a higher level than Eli though
RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
No, but it was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
has all of 14 career starts and looks like a polished passer already. He'd be worth it at #6 if he aces interviews and combine. Seems like a grounded kid with a good work ethic.
RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
RE: RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers has been playing at a higher level than Eli though
Based on what? Leading the league in INTs twice? Leading the league in gsme ending INTs for a few years? Some years he was better, some years he was worse.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Basically we don't want to force a pick. At #6 you have a chance to draft an elite/impact player. Taking a QB at six,to fill a need, when you don't believe he is elite could set the team back at QB for a number of years. This team has a lot of holes to fill, and this draft is starting to look deep in some of those areas. I would not be upset if the team filled other needs, and went QB in 2020; which is shaping up to be a very strong/deep QB class. Just because this QB is the tallest midget in the room, doesn't make him a smart pick at #6.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
You just said "Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future." So we are going to suck with Eli but then you say we won't be in position to get a top 10 pick? Which is it? If we have to trade up so be it. The Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs just traded up for QB's. How did that work out for them?
RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers won 9 games in 3 of those years. So that’s 4/7 with a winning record and 3 a win away from the playoffs. I love Eli but Rivers has been a better quarterback for at least 3 years now.
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
RE: RE: It seems highly unlikely that the Giants will draft Haskins at 6. Â
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
If Gettleman takes a QB that he isn't sold on just for the sake of taking a QB he should be shown the door promptly.
RE: RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers won 9 games in 3 of those years. So that’s 4/7 with a winning record and 3 a win away from the playoffs. I love Eli but Rivers has been a better quarterback for at least 3 years now.
Rivers failed to make the playoffs in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. 4 straight years.
also had a 4 win season and a 5 win season, and I've been lectured on BBI several times that good QB's not have those types of years, let alone two of them.
There is a lot of inconsistency when discussing Rivers. He's been the victim of a bad team while eli is the cause of a bad team....
None of you know whether Haskins is worth the pick. Even resident scout Sy seems to be unsure.
That's offensive. Some of these guys who want Haskins haven't actually seen Haskins play but they did watch a 5 minute highlight video so they are more informed than the Giants scouting department.
"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
1 anybody doesn't like this kid (I'm not saying he's Warren Moon but everything he's shown so far is pretty impressive)
2 why you want to kick the QB can down the road yet again?
3 why you think its prudent to assume we will be in a good position to draft a QB next year (let's say the good QBs go early then and we are 8-8 this season and are drafting 15th)
RE: RE: RE: It seems highly unlikely that the Giants will draft Haskins at 6. Â
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
If Gettleman takes a QB that he isn't sold on just for the sake of taking a QB he should be shown the door promptly.
"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
Bingo.
Well said.
RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Why because they don’t like the guy you do? This is the exact garbage that has brought this site way down the past few years. I personally like the kid but I can understand the argument against and wanting to wait until 2020 draft for the next big qb draft. Where I disagree is we will improve enough this offseason to put us to far out of reach to get one of them. If they are sold on him get him at 6. If he’s the guy than it don’t matter 6 or 15. If not go elsewhere that simple. But I guess on the “ new” bbi we can’t have disagreements without ridicule as if anyone actually knows what the front office thinks
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Basically we don't want to force a pick. At #6 you have a chance to draft an elite/impact player. Taking a QB at six,to fill a need, when you don't believe he is elite could set the team back at QB for a number of years. This team has a lot of holes to fill, and this draft is starting to look deep in some of those areas. I would not be upset if the team filled other needs, and went QB in 2020; which is shaping up to be a very strong/deep QB class. Just because this QB is the tallest midget in the room, doesn't make him a smart pick at #6.
to declare this year. His stock is about as high as it's going to get.
I am still disappointed in the selection of Barkley over a QB. And we still need a QB sitting in the #6 hole. But Haskins is not the answer.
Quite a predicament the boys at Jints Central have created - no idea what they are going to do with Eli (well, what Mara wants to do), an unwillingness to play Lauletta in insignificant games to see his ability under live fire, never played Tanney...which means the next QB is unlikely on the roster...no chance we get into the Foles sweepstakes (which would be smart), not the best market with FA QBs this year, etc.
"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
Bingo.
Well said.
So, by that logic, we should eliminate Tua and Fromm next year and Trevor Lawrence the year after that.
speak in absolutes when talking about draft prospects. There is a great deal of sensitivity around Eli and the future QB position as well. I really don’t think it’s necessary to bring Eli into the conversation when talking about prospects anymore.
1 anybody doesn't like this kid (I'm not saying he's Warren Moon but everything he's shown so far is pretty impressive)
2 why you want to kick the QB can down the road yet again?
3 why you think its prudent to assume we will be in a good position to draft a QB next year (let's say the good QBs go early then and we are 8-8 this season and are drafting 15th)
For some of us it isn't that we don't like the kid. We are just very concerned that he only started for one season, plays in a simple offense, has played behind a great offensive line so we don't know how he will handle consistent pressure in his face.
Ok so everyone who wants a QB from the 2020 draft... Â
2019, We take a stud at #6 like OT Williams or a D-Lineman, and have a very solid draft. OBJ is back, the line is much better, we win a couple of the toss up games we should have won this year and we go 9-7. How are we getting a QB in the 2020 draft if we are picking 19 or 20? Are you prepared to trade away the next two years of high picks to get to 4? I like Haskins over Herbert and its not close right now. Walter Football is a good site. Here's who they have ranked in their 2020 mock right now:
1. Tua- Durability could be an issue
2. Fromm- Struggled in big games this year
4. Herbert- Had a bad 2nd half
22. Eason- Hasn't played a game in over a year.
So you would rather pass on a guy like Haskins, who just threw 50 TD passes for that crapshoot?? Makes no sense to kick the can down the road AGAIN. Link - ( New Window )
He only has year under his belt and was in the middle of a loaded offense. Most of his production came off high percentage throws that his playmakers took for big games. However, a lot of YAC falls on the QB as well and his short throw accuracy is probably the easiest thing to see. We certainly have the playmakers for him to do the same here and Shurmur's offense isn't that dissimilar to what they are running at OSU. I don't see him as being anymore raw than most rookie QBs but he's a gamble, that's what it is. You're doing a lot of projecting with him. We're in a position to have to gamble though. Giants are in a tough spot.
I don't know how to evaluate Haskins. I watch him standing behind that top o-line and throwing to top receivers and wonder how he'd do at Duke.
How was Baker Mayfield's offensive line in college?
Baker had the best QBR against pressure his senior year in college, maybe even his junior year but i cannot confirm that. Baker balled with or without a pocket.
Lets wait for the "dust to settle" (senior bowl, combine, interviews) before we decide who is the best option at quarterback. Between the ears is maybe more important than physical skills.
I do think based off watching interviews of these guys, the Giants will like Haskins and Jones the most.
but to me it's a good sign that the strongest criticism seems to be that his OL was too good. If that's all you got (not size, mobility, arm strength, football IQ or off field issues) then I'd say he deserves a serious look.
None of you know whether Haskins is worth the pick. Even resident scout Sy seems to be unsure.
Oh come-on. We are all just giving our opinions, and none of us are experts (except maybe for Sy). But at this point, if the experts are unsure, he's probably not someone we should be discussing as the future franchise guy that you want to pick at #6; maybe his performance at the combine will clear things up a little better.
"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
Well said Milton. Haskins is going to be under a big, bright microscope at the Combine.
RE: RE: RE: It seems highly unlikely that the Giants will draft Haskins at 6. Â
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
If Gettleman takes a QB that he isn't sold on just for the sake of taking a QB he should be shown the door promptly.
When are you ever completely sold on any player not named Saquon? Even if you have a conviction, that won't mean you won't get it wrong. You guys have to stop with the Getttleman being sold on a QB narrative. We need to move on.
Am I crazy? Fromm played very well against Alabama. He had one bad game last season and that was against LSU. Against Alabama he completed 64% of his passes for 301 yards 3 td's and 0 int's. If that is considered struggling sign me up.
No way is he worth the 6th pick Give me Josh Allen Ferrell
or one of the Williams from Bama DT LT .
Get the QB in 2020 if Herbert was in the draft I would
look to move up and get him .
RE: Ok so everyone who wants a QB from the 2020 draft... Â
2019, We take a stud at #6 like OT Williams or a D-Lineman, and have a very solid draft. OBJ is back, the line is much better, we win a couple of the toss up games we should have won this year and we go 9-7. How are we getting a QB in the 2020 draft if we are picking 19 or 20? Are you prepared to trade away the next two years of high picks to get to 4? I like Haskins over Herbert and its not close right now. Walter Football is a good site. Here's who they have ranked in their 2020 mock right now:
1. Tua- Durability could be an issue
2. Fromm- Struggled in big games this year
4. Herbert- Had a bad 2nd half
22. Eason- Hasn't played a game in over a year.
So you would rather pass on a guy like Haskins, who just threw 50 TD passes for that crapshoot?? Makes no sense to kick the can down the road AGAIN. Link - ( New Window )
None of you know whether Haskins is worth the pick. Even resident scout Sy seems to be unsure.
Oh come-on. We are all just giving our opinions, and none of us are experts (except maybe for Sy). But at this point, if the experts are unsure, he's probably not someone we should be discussing as the future franchise guy that you want to pick at #6; maybe his performance at the combine will clear things up a little better.
I don't know how throwing to uncovered WR's in shorts at the combine is going to clear anything up.
he's a heck of a player. I remember last year, he stepped into the Michigan game when Ohio State was down and struggling mightily, in Michigan against one of the top defenses in the country, and they couldn't stop him.
but to me it's a good sign that the strongest criticism seems to be that his OL was too good. If that's all you got (not size, mobility, arm strength, football IQ or off field issues) then I'd say he deserves a serious look.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Why because they don’t like the guy you do? This is the exact garbage that has brought this site way down the past few years. I personally like the kid but I can understand the argument against and wanting to wait until 2020 draft for the next big qb draft. Where I disagree is we will improve enough this offseason to put us to far out of reach to get one of them. If they are sold on him get him at 6. If he’s the guy than it don’t matter 6 or 15. If not go elsewhere that simple. But I guess on the “ new” bbi we can’t have disagreements without ridicule as if anyone actually knows what the front office thinks
How are waiting for 2020 when nothing gauranted on who's coming out or what our draft position is? I love hearing these ridiculous ideas when no one can predict the future. So let's pass on a QB this year who may or may not be the answer for a QB next year who may or may not be the answer.Is that right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
You just said "Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future." So we are going to suck with Eli but then you say we won't be in position to get a top 10 pick? Which is it? If we have to trade up so be it. The Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs just traded up for QB's. How did that work out for them?
What the hell are you talking about. I'm for drafting Haskins this year not holding on to Eli.
played well vs Bama. He struggled against LSU and Texas. And they just ran the ball vs Texas. I was high on him and watched that Texas game which was alarming.
"let's wait for the 2020" class thing is quite dumb. You never know how those other QBs are going to fare, where our pick will be, etc. There are a ton of unknowns. What we do know is that our pick right now is #6, and Haskins is a really good prospect.
also had a 4 win season and a 5 win season, and I've been lectured on BBI several times that good QB's not have those types of years, let alone two of them.
There is a lot of inconsistency when discussing Rivers. He's been the victim of a bad team while eli is the cause of a bad team....
Well, Rivers does have a lifetime record of 118-90. And he's had 3 losing seasons out of 13.
Yes, he'd had some dark seasons, but he's responded the last two seasons. That division was out of their grasp for several years when Manning came to Denver. Those Denver teams were stacked.
The Chargers were a playoff team last year if they didn't have a high school kicker the first quarter of the season. So Rivers has demonstrated that he's still a great QB and can lead a team.
I love the Saquon pick now because it really makes our next qb choice MUCH safer.
If you build the offensive line some more and put a young quarterback into a system built on a great run game with elite skill players around him, he has a much better chance of succeeding as well as the TEAM.
You basically lower your bust chance because the guy won't have to be elite to ensure the offense is successful. You also can take the time needed to gradually progress his game, not asking too much of him all the time.
This is not in support of, or against Haskins. Rather a point to the crowd that thinks the sky is falling if the Giants don't take a qb at 6. There is an excellent argument to be made the choice i just laid out is makes much more sense for the team as is constructed.
Watching Philly made me depressed because it showed how having an elite offensive line really elevates your chances of winning on any given day. The story of the Colts - Texans game? Houston's defensive line got dominated. Lost in the Parkey noise? Mack had one sack and often times was MIA. Philly's offensive line won that game. They took away Chicago's biggest strength. Building that line remains priority #1 in my humble opinion.
RE: The thing that brings this fan comfort, is the fact that Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
You just said "Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future." So we are going to suck with Eli but then you say we won't be in position to get a top 10 pick? Which is it? If we have to trade up so be it. The Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs just traded up for QB's. How did that work out for them?
What the hell are you talking about. I'm for drafting Haskins this year not holding on to Eli.
Holy shit I have to explain to you what you said. You said the Giants will suck with Eli if they stick with him next season. You then said the Giants won't be in position to draft a QB because they won't be bad enough to get a top 10 pick. If Eli sucks we will have a top 10 pick so you contradicted yourself.
"let's wait for the 2020" class thing is quite dumb. You never know how those other QBs are going to fare, where our pick will be, etc. There are a ton of unknowns. What we do know is that our pick right now is #6, and Haskins is a really good prospect.
Absolutely. Dumb is an understatement.
I'm sure the rest of the league is eager to cooperate to make sure the Giants get what they want...
also had a 4 win season and a 5 win season, and I've been lectured on BBI several times that good QB's not have those types of years, let alone two of them.
There is a lot of inconsistency when discussing Rivers. He's been the victim of a bad team while eli is the cause of a bad team....
Well, Rivers does have a lifetime record of 118-90. And he's had 3 losing seasons out of 13.
Yes, he'd had some dark seasons, but he's responded the last two seasons. That division was out of their grasp for several years when Manning came to Denver. Those Denver teams were stacked.
The Chargers were a playoff team last year if they didn't have a high school kicker the first quarter of the season. So Rivers has demonstrated that he's still a great QB and can lead a team.
And yesterday proved he still needs that defense to carry him ;)
Plus I rather have a high school kicker than a big 12 defense for the majority of Eli’s last half of his career.
and Saquon, I'm fairly confident that Haskins will be a very good NFL quarterback if we were to draft him. Guy has all the tools and is already going through his progressions nicely after 14 college starts.
What exactly are his negatives when it comes to his passing?
I love the Saquon pick now because it really makes our next qb choice MUCH safer.
If you build the offensive line some more and put a young quarterback into a system built on a great run game with elite skill players around him, he has a much better chance of succeeding as well as the TEAM.
You basically lower your bust chance because the guy won't have to be elite to ensure the offense is successful. You also can take the time needed to gradually progress his game, not asking too much of him all the time.
This is not in support of, or against Haskins. Rather a point to the crowd that thinks the sky is falling if the Giants don't take a qb at 6. There is an excellent argument to be made the choice i just laid out is makes much more sense for the team as is constructed.
Watching Philly made me depressed because it showed how having an elite offensive line really elevates your chances of winning on any given day. The story of the Colts - Texans game? Houston's defensive line got dominated. Lost in the Parkey noise? Mack had one sack and often times was MIA. Philly's offensive line won that game. They took away Chicago's biggest strength. Building that line remains priority #1 in my humble opinion.
You can build up the offensive line and find your QB. All four teams minus the Colts traded up for their starting QB's.
does Phil Rivers have to do with Dwayne Haskins? Good grief, it's like groundhog day around here with the same debates over and over, nobody ever gives an inch, just becomes more entrenched in their opinion. Repeat.
Main arguments against him is his OL is to good lol only on BBI where everything comes back to the OL.. Haskins just smashed all sort of B1G passing records and destroyed the top ranked Michigan defense 2 years in a row. I wonder why all OSU QBs don’t throw 50tds since there competition is always so inferior
Haskins is a no brainer pick.. now let’s see if the Giants won’t screw that up or if they’ll trot out that Dinosaur Eli Manning and his huge cap number
Anything to sell those PSLs
we have a highly respected QB maven in Shurmur. We’re not talking HC abilities, just QB evaluation.
If he passes on Haskins, there’s your answer. If he takes him, there’s your answer.
Yes, his work with Lauletta has been sublime.
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
RE: RE: RE: RE: So for all you fans that don't like Haskins Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Why because they don’t like the guy you do? This is the exact garbage that has brought this site way down the past few years. I personally like the kid but I can understand the argument against and wanting to wait until 2020 draft for the next big qb draft. Where I disagree is we will improve enough this offseason to put us to far out of reach to get one of them. If they are sold on him get him at 6. If he’s the guy than it don’t matter 6 or 15. If not go elsewhere that simple. But I guess on the “ new” bbi we can’t have disagreements without ridicule as if anyone actually knows what the front office thinks
How are waiting for 2020 when nothing gauranted on who's coming out or what our draft position is? I love hearing these ridiculous ideas when no one can predict the future. So let's pass on a QB this year who may or may not be the answer for a QB next year who may or may not be the answer.Is that right?
Maybe you should learn to read and get to me where I said we should wait.
Like I do Coach K point guards. They are highly productive but don’t translate to the pro game.
I thought he played more of the 2 for Duke. I thought Nolan Smith was the PG.
It was a bit of a cheat on my part. He got hurt and missed most of the only season he played there. Played like 10 games. Maybe that saved him from getting ruined by Coach K. :)
and Saquon, I'm fairly confident that Haskins will be a very good NFL quarterback if we were to draft him. Guy has all the tools and is already going through his progressions nicely after 14 college starts.
What exactly are his negatives when it comes to his passing?
Not going to find many negatives about his arm. Probably watched more of the kid than anybody here. He has great arm talent and can hit all the throws. Most knocks seem to be based on the talent around him (silly), and how he'll translate from a spread QB friendly system to a pro style offense. Which is a more valid concern. He didn't take a snap from under center all season so there will be a significant transition. I believe in the talent but he'd be best served to sit for a bit before starting. Don't think he should be a day 1 starter. Fortunately we can offer that scenario.
he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Normally I'd agree but every single team ahead of us at 6 is not selecting a QB. Only way Haskins gets by us is if a team trades up which could certainly happen.
RE: RE: If Haskins is as good as some of you say Â
he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Exactly. Oakland, TB, or even a Jacksonville trade up will happen.
And if Shurmur is high on him, there’s no reason to believe we might not move up to get him, just like the other teams. The question is, is he the guy?
And gettleman knows this.
It's time to take a QB early.
Haskins, Jones, or Lock are it.
Everyone acting like they are in the know are forgetting that comment.
I prefer Haskins and hope we step up and take him.
Future is now.
True, but......
Reaching for a QB who doesn't pan out is how you go busting through that door, full speed.....
I am not against drafting Haskins if the Giants like him Â
I just have concerns about his inexperience mostly. We have seen QB's in college have a great season and they fall off the map like Hackenberg who would have been a high 1st round pick after his first year had he been eligible to come out.
Man I hate posts like this. How the fuck do you know?
Literally the coach of the Raiders said Carr is not going anywhere, that he is a great quarterback, and will be the QB of the team moving forward.
Literally the GM of the Bucs said that Winston is their guy and the next coach has to work with Winston to get it done. He said to all the coaching candidates...Winston is the QB.
I'm not just predicting or saying stuff to say it. It literally came from the teams themselves.
since 2001 in which a QB did not go in the top 5. Sure, this could be the outlier given the thin QB class. But I think chances are a QB starved organization becomes convinced he's the guy and trades up to get him. Jacksonville, Denver, Miami look like prime candidates picking behind the Giants. I don't he gets to 6. We'll see
"No question, I am sure he is sore. He knows he is carrying us right now on offense. That's what a franchise quarterback is paid to do, but we are doing everything we can to support him, to try and put him in position to audible at the line of scrimmage, fix problems, and move the football and ultimately win games. He really has had us in position to win a lot of these games. It's a credit to him."
"I think Derek has played great," Gruden continued. "Somebody told me he had 3,700 yards and 68 percent completions in 13 games. That's astonishing. With three new guards, losing a right tackle, a featured back, three top receivers. The guy is a hell of a player. The guy is a great quarterback. We are very pleased and proud of what he has done. We know we got to get better around him, and that we will."
Haskins will be worth it.. his downfield accuracy would bring out the best in OBJ and Engram.. we also get to see the OL block for a QB who wont be a sitting duck.. Haskins could rejuvenate this whole franchise
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
is that no one else ever put up these numbers while playing for Urban Meyer at any of his 4 stops. In fact, I'd argue Haskins' lack of mobility makes him less like any of the previous Urban Meyer QBs. (John Brantley couldn't run, but he sure as heck didn't put up numbers like Haskins.) No one else ever completed 70% of their passes for Meyer. No one threw for this many yards or TDs. He threw less interceptions in 160 more attempts than JT Barrett the previous season. This kind of production is impossible to ignore or dismiss.
The biggest negatives for him are experience and athletic ability. He's not a statue, but he's not mobile either. Guys who leave school as redshirt sophomores don't have long, successful NFL careers. Haskins is leaving after starting only 1 season whereas nearly all of the rest started for 2 years.
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
This is embarrassing. Reid was the catalyst for Foles. What happened to Foles when Reid left? Bridgewater? Really? Show me his prolific career year. Bradford played okay...fine. But do you want to hang Shurmur's QB bonafides?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: The thing that brings this fan comfort, is the fact that Â
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
You forgot Case Keenum last year.
Jay, he mentioned Keenum, so I had no reason to. 😎
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
This is embarrassing. Reid was the catalyst for Foles. What happened to Foles when Reid left? Bridgewater? Really? Show me his prolific career year. Bradford played okay...fine. But do you want to hang Shurmur's QB bonafides?
It's embarrassing that you're wrong. Foles had his best season under Kelly and Shurmur as OC. WITHOUT Reid in 2013 Foles threw 27 td's and 2 int's.
he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Put me in the camp that guesses he won't be there at 6. Which is why I am studying Lock and Jones now and will start on Grier next.
Oh, I also don't think DG will pull the trigger on trading up to get Haskins. The Jags or Broncos will though, IMHO. Wild guessing of course, but Denver is already past strike 3 under Elway on the next QB search, and they are not gonna have only Keenum and Simian to trot out next year.
on Haskins is that it's hard to evaluate how good he truly is b/c he had so much time behind the Ohio State OL. But the kid was absolutely lights out, has a huge arm, stands tall in the pocket, scans the field, moves his eyes quickly through his progressions and throws a very accurate ball. He's not a runner at all but he has some elusiveness when he needs it. He's very young and only one yr of college experience but he also showed up and played very well in the biggest games. I truly don't understand what people dislike about his game. If he were a 2 year starter and played in a different conference I don't think anyone would question him going #1 overall.
RE: RE: If Haskins is as good as some of you say Â
he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Put me in the camp that guesses he won't be there at 6. Which is why I am studying Lock and Jones now and will start on Grier next.
Oh, I also don't think DG will pull the trigger on trading up to get Haskins. The Jags or Broncos will though, IMHO. Wild guessing of course, but Denver is already past strike 3 under Elway on the next QB search, and they are not gonna have only Keenum and Simian to trot out next year.
I think the Jags will definitely trade up for a QB. They won't want to pick behind the Giants out of fear that they will go QB.
on Haskins is that it's hard to evaluate how good he truly is b/c he had so much time behind the Ohio State OL. But the kid was absolutely lights out, has a huge arm, stands tall in the pocket, scans the field, moves his eyes quickly through his progressions and throws a very accurate ball. He's not a runner at all but he has some elusiveness when he needs it. He's very young and only one yr of college experience but he also showed up and played very well in the biggest games. I truly don't understand what people dislike about his game. If he were a 2 year starter and played in a different conference I don't think anyone would question him going #1 overall.
I don't see him going through his progressions. He seems to stare down his primary receiver which will get him in trouble in the NFL. This could just be a result of his inexperience but it is something to monitor.
on Haskins is that it's hard to evaluate how good he truly is b/c he had so much time behind the Ohio State OL. But the kid was absolutely lights out, has a huge arm, stands tall in the pocket, scans the field, moves his eyes quickly through his progressions and throws a very accurate ball. He's not a runner at all but he has some elusiveness when he needs it. He's very young and only one yr of college experience but he also showed up and played very well in the biggest games. I truly don't understand what people dislike about his game. If he were a 2 year starter and played in a different conference I don't think anyone would question him going #1 overall.
I don't see him going through his progressions. He seems to stare down his primary receiver which will get him in trouble in the NFL. This could just be a result of his inexperience but it is something to monitor.
This is absolutely inaccurate (at least as it related to the second half of the season when I started watching every one of his snaps). For someone his age he seems very poised in the pocket and does a great job scanning the field with his eyes. Now that being said, it's been relatively easy for him bc he does get a lot of time in the pocket. The real test will be how flustered he gets when he inevitably faces significant pressure in his face but it's hard to determine that at this time.
late in the season he absolutely was going through his progressions. He was not just a one read QB which tends to be the knock in these sorts of offenses. The time afforded by the OL certainly helps with that.
Let's see what Gettleman and Shurmur do, if he is there at #6. Doubt they take him, but if they do, I have will confidence in that selection. I think they may be looking at 2020 for their future QB.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
My plan is to embrace sucking in 2019. If that means more Eli, so be it. Better QB options will present themselves in 2020 and ‘21.
It all depends on what they see at the Combine and individual workouts Â
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
My plan is to embrace sucking in 2019. If that means more Eli, so be it. Better QB options will present themselves in 2020 and ‘21.
There's always the risk other teams needing a QB will be thinking the same thing and suck in worse for a higher draft pick.
on Haskins is that it's hard to evaluate how good he truly is b/c he had so much time behind the Ohio State OL. But the kid was absolutely lights out, has a huge arm, stands tall in the pocket, scans the field, moves his eyes quickly through his progressions and throws a very accurate ball. He's not a runner at all but he has some elusiveness when he needs it. He's very young and only one yr of college experience but he also showed up and played very well in the biggest games. I truly don't understand what people dislike about his game. If he were a 2 year starter and played in a different conference I don't think anyone would question him going #1 overall.
I agree. If its limited to "he had a good OL" well guess what, the top QBs in 2020 (Tue, Fromm) and in 2021 (Lawrence, Fields) will have played for Bama, Clemson, Georgia and Ohio State. Pretty good OLs, no?
What I really like about Haskins is his deep ball accuracy. How many times over the past two seasons have we seen Beckham have 2-3 steps or more on a DB and Eli misses him?
What I really like about Haskins is his deep ball accuracy. How many times over the past two seasons have we seen Beckham have 2-3 steps or more on a DB and Eli misses him?
Haskinsnstruggled with the deep ball for the majority of the year.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Basically we don't want to force a pick. At #6 you have a chance to draft an elite/impact player. Taking a QB at six,to fill a need, when you don't believe he is elite could set the team back at QB for a number of years. This team has a lot of holes to fill, and this draft is starting to look deep in some of those areas. I would not be upset if the team filled other needs, and went QB in 2020; which is shaping up to be a very strong/deep QB class. Just because this QB is the tallest midget in the room, doesn't make him a smart pick at #6.
Were you saying this last year?
Nope. Last year I said I would be happy with Barkley or Darnold. Barkley because I believed he was a generational talent, Darnold, because I believe he could be a franchise QB.
None of you know whether Haskins is worth the pick. Even resident scout Sy seems to be unsure.
Oh come-on. We are all just giving our opinions, and none of us are experts (except maybe for Sy). But at this point, if the experts are unsure, he's probably not someone we should be discussing as the future franchise guy that you want to pick at #6; maybe his performance at the combine will clear things up a little better.
I don't know how throwing to uncovered WR's in shorts at the combine is going to clear anything up.
Funny how QB (or players in general) stock can rise or fall based on the combine (or the pro-days)
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
O have said this many times, the plan at QB for 2019 is immaterial from a game results standpoint. The Giants are highly unlikely to be a winning team no matter who it is. So the point is to get that guy who has the BEST CHANCE to succeed...
Here is an article from Football Outsiders. They developed a metric to evaluate college QBs. And almost every successful metric in evaluating college QB considers experience. FO considered
Quote:
1) completion percentage;
2) college games played;
3) age when drafted;
4) experience in a pro-style offense;
5) and functional mobility.
As I said before almost every single attempt to develop metrics on evaluating college QBs includes game experience. Bill Parcells famously said he only considers 3 year starters.
So, on average, a guy that has only 1 year in a QB friendly system such as OSU has a much higher bust rate.
Just to illustrate the point, I am not claiming that these are real number, just illustrative. Lets say you are building up your team and need a new QB that you want to get through the draft. You will suck until you have your new QB, but you have invest 5 years in that guy. Only after 5 years will you know if he is a success or a bust, and if he is a bust you can move on...
In the first year of your QB search there is a player that was a 1 year starter in an offense like OSU. He would have an 60% probability of being a bust.
In the second year of your QB search, there are several players somebody who are 3 year starters from a mixed Spread/Pro Offensive style like Fromm at Georgia. These guys have a bust probability of 30%.
Also lets assume that success in either case equates to the same level of play. I.E. they have the same ceiling.
One last assumption, in either case, if your guy busts after 5 years your next pick has a 45% bust factor (squarely between the 2 60% guy and the 30% guys)
Ok lets do the match to see on average how many years out of the next 15 your team will suck being stuck in QB hell...
Option 1: pick the 60% bust factor guy year 1:
.6 * (5 + (.45 * ( 5 + (.45 * 5))))= 4.96 years
Option 3: wait a year and pick the player with the 30% bust rate
1 + .3 * (5 + (.45 * ( 5 + (.45 * 5)))) = 3.48
Now I am not claiming these bust rates are 100% accurate statistics, I used them to make the point. If you go with 1st guy, you might not suck at all going forward, but you are more likely he will fail and you waste 5 years and try again. In the second scenario, even though you are guaranteeing that you will suck for 1 additional year, getting the player with the lower bust percentage later still yields a better result. If repeated enough times, the average number of years your team will suck is much lower in the second scenario, where you pick the player with the lower percentage bust rate.
Now the real model for this is much more complex, and in fact the model above for the 30% bust rate player extends over 16 years not 15, so it needs to be adjusted down slightly.
The point of this is to show that in whatever model teams are using to predict the success rate of QBs, that if there is enough qualitative difference in the evaluation metrics between the 2 candidates, it can be better to wait a year for the better candidate.
Haskins, because of the lack of experience, and the system he played in, has a higher probability of being a bust, as measured by the most successful metrics for college QBs out there, than will players like Tua and Fromm (and even Herbert) when they come out. No metrics out there are perfect, there are players that break the metrics and force them to be re-evaluated. Sometimes they are just outliers. It happens.
Keep in mind we have another player in the NFL right now that was very similar to Haskins when he came out. Mitch Trubitsky. The jury is stil out on him. But do you think right now, that Chicago wishes they took Mahomes who had much more starting experience in college?
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
Haskins will be worth it.. his downfield accuracy would bring out the best in OBJ and Engram.. we also get to see the OL block for a QB who wont be a sitting duck.. Haskins could rejuvenate this whole franchise
Haskins has no downfield accuracy. He struggles to throw the deep ball.
What I really like about Haskins is his deep ball accuracy. How many times over the past two seasons have we seen Beckham have 2-3 steps or more on a DB and Eli misses him?
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
How can you say that last sentence? I'm not even a huge Haskins guy but that is bullshit. No one knows if any of those three will be good. Why are people on here pretending like Tua and Fromm have't also benefited from having some awesome talent beside them?
I also do not understand the "1 read" complaints on Hasksins considering a lot of film junkies have said he reads defenses well.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
RE: RE: You have to give him credit for what he has done Â
In comment 14252829 SaqBar999 said:
[quote] In comment 14252615 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:
Haskins will be worth it.. his downfield accuracy would bring out the best in OBJ and Engram.. we also get to see the OL block for a QB who wont be a sitting duck.. Haskins could rejuvenate this whole franchise
Haskins has no downfield accuracy. He struggles to throw the deep ball. [/quote
has all of 14 career starts and looks like a polished passer already. He'd be worth it at #6 if he aces interviews and combine. Seems like a grounded kid with a good work ethic.
And that is the key right there. 20 years old. 14 starts. Already very accurate and goes through progressions. Absolutely incredible ceiling with him.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
Their are bust percentage metrics based on the number of years stating and project draft round... So yes 1 more year of football does lower their bust potential according to the metrics.
A whole additional year's worth of data points, 3 total years for both. With a larger sample size, you have a much larger degree of certainty that was you are seeing is real rather that a one or 2 play anomaly.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
You are still not a college QB scouting expert.
He still has only 1 year of tape (only 4 games for you) and pretty much all against lower talent levels.
He is still in a QB friendly situation that makes him almost impossible to evaluate. EVEN THE REAL EXPERTS agree on that.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
You are still not a college QB scouting expert.
He still has only 1 year of tape (only 4 games for you) and pretty much all against lower talent levels.
He is still in a QB friendly situation that makes him almost impossible to evaluate. EVEN THE REAL EXPERTS agree on that.
Haskins has never seen a Compressed Pocket, not once, in his entire time in college.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
RE: RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
I've watched plenty of Haskins. He is not impressive. Not a 1st round prospect.
Gettleman is an elite scout, and if you think he will be fooled by Haskins, you are out of your mind.
Gettleman isn't an idiot. He is not drafting Haskins.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
I've watched plenty of Haskins. He is not impressive. Not a 1st round prospect.
Gettleman is an elite scout, and if you think he will be fooled by Haskins, you are out of your mind.
Gettleman isn't an idiot. He is not drafting Haskins.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
RE: RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Literally, the local HS where I occasionally help out, has the QB with that responsibility for as long as I can remember. So... I am calling BS on this one...
on Haskins is that it's hard to evaluate how good he truly is b/c he had so much time behind the Ohio State OL. But the kid was absolutely lights out, has a huge arm, stands tall in the pocket, scans the field, moves his eyes quickly through his progressions and throws a very accurate ball. He's not a runner at all but he has some elusiveness when he needs it. He's very young and only one yr of college experience but he also showed up and played very well in the biggest games. I truly don't understand what people dislike about his game. If he were a 2 year starter and played in a different conference I don't think anyone would question him going #1 overall.
This times 100. If he's a 2 year starter and performed a ton under pressure he's the number 1 overall.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
I’m stating my opinion on Haskins. It’s a message board, that’s what we’re all doing.
There’s plenty of people out there who think is worth, and it’s likely at least one NFL team will too.
RE: RE: RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
I've watched plenty of Haskins. He is not impressive. Not a 1st round prospect.
Gettleman is an elite scout, and if you think he will be fooled by Haskins, you are out of your mind.
Gettleman isn't an idiot. He is not drafting Haskins.
Can we ban the dupe
For stating a fact?
Haskins is an awful QB.
Gettleman isn't drafting him.
You are either naive or completely retarded if u think otherwise.
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
I wouldn't even take him at #38.
He's Byron Leftwich 2.0
Just a really really bad QB
Watch his tape against Michigan State, Purdue, Penn State, Nebraska. He is painful to watch. Everything he does is slow.
Kyle Lauletta fits Pat Shurmur/Dave Gettleman more than Haskins ever will.
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
All the 2020 QBs you want have played with better talent then nearly every team they play. How is that a knock? Why are they more certain of prospects?
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
I’m calling BS here. Which “real expert” has said Haskins isn’t worth a top 6 pick? You stated this on another thread and your only point of reference was McShay who gave him the same grade he gave Mayfield last year and a higher one than he gave anyone in 2017. Not to mention, right there with Goff and Wentz.
They see a guy standing in clean pockets with all day to throw, throwing to wide open receivers because the secondary is forced to back off due to the time in the pocket, and pile up easy manufactured stats, and scream "Look at his production!"
Zero conceptual understanding of what makes a good NFL QB.
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
You sure you want to open up that can of worms? We could be here all night listening to his issues.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: A good example of Haskins and his checks Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure; sounds like you're describing Eli. Plus you said he's inaccurate, I didn't realize a 70% season completion percentage was inaccurate (67% in that Purdue game you linked).
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
RE: RE: Lol... did Haskins kick your dog or something? Â
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure; sounds like you're describing Eli. Plus you said he's inaccurate, I didn't realize a 70% season completion percentage was inaccurate (67% in that Purdue game you linked).
Eli processes quickly and makes quick decisions. Haskins literally the opposite. Slow in everything.
Manufactured completions (Urban Meyer's system) doesn't mean he's accurate.
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure; sounds like you're describing Eli. Plus you said he's inaccurate, I didn't realize a 70% season completion percentage was inaccurate (67% in that Purdue game you linked).
Eli processes quickly and makes quick decisions. Haskins literally the opposite. Slow in everything.
Manufactured completions (Urban Meyer's system) doesn't mean he's accurate.
Not quick enogh to avoid being sacked 87 times the pst 2 years.
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Good thing you're not the GM.
Don't worry....the real GM won't be drafting Haskins.
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
I’m calling BS here. Which “real expert” has said Haskins isn’t worth a top 6 pick? You stated this on another thread and your only point of reference was McShay who gave him the same grade he gave Mayfield last year and a higher one than he gave anyone in 2017. Not to mention, right there with Goff and Wentz.
Here is an article (granted its from Nov 3rd but it makes the same point I am making about experience)
[url]https://heavy.com/sports/2018/11/dwayne-haskins-is-the-ohio-st-qb-a-first-round-selection/[url]
Quote:
Rivals' MIKE FARRELL'S take
“This is a really weak quarterback class compared to last year, and I’m not sure Haskins would have been a first-rounder last April with Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson. However, who else are you going to take in the first round, if not Haskins? With Herbert coming back and guys like Jones, Grier and Lock being second- or third-rounders, you know someone will make Haskins a first-rounder. I’m a little bit surprised at his development in college because I didn’t see him as a Heisman candidate, but he’s done a great job under the tutelage of Day. Will he be an NFL star? I don’t see it, but I’ve certainly been wrong before.”
Mike Farrell's view coincides with mine... The only reason Haskins will get pushed up into top 20 or higher is because there are no other choices... Experts are moving him up for that reason as well... Just because there isn't a better choice at QB doesn't make him a good pick especially as high as #6.
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Good thing you're not the GM.
Don't worry....the real GM won't be drafting Haskins.
Let me guess he called you and said as much right.
So says who? You?
Now you are the expert?
What do you have backing you up?
A bunch of mocks... As I said before mocks don't count, that is the GUESS as to what team will do in the draft. Its not a ranking.
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Uh talk about cherry picking a stat...
Read and learn about how college games started relates to NFL success.
This is old wisdom that has not changed...
Here is an article from 2008 http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
Quote:
However, there is a more complex reason why games started is an important indicator. In general, NFL scouts do an excellent job of talent evaluation when they have enough information. The more film that exists of a player, the easier it is to find weaknesses. When scouts don't get sufficient information, they place too much weight on "measurables" and off-field workouts, and make mistakes like Couch, Leaf or Akili Smith.
Sometimes, when a player starts a lot of games, scouts have enough film to figure out that he is truly a "system quarterback," and not an NFL prospect. That's why Kliff Kingsbury and Chris Leak were not drafted high despite strong college numbers. Because of the assumption that scouts can do their job with the right information, these projections apply only to quarterbacks chosen in the first two rounds.
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Uh talk about cherry picking a stat...
Read and learn about how college games started relates to NFL success.
This is old wisdom that has not changed...
Here is an article from 2008
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
Quote:
However, there is a more complex reason why games started is an important indicator. In general, NFL scouts do an excellent job of talent evaluation when they have enough information....
Uh, from your article
Quote:
Chad Henne (47 starts, 59.7 percent completion rate)
Henne is the type of player scouts never miss on -- a four-year starter from an elite college program. His 59.7 percent completion rate isn't bad, but it isn't that good either. Henne never displayed the consistency of an elite quarterback while at Michigan, but he did show an NFL arm.
Henne's college stats are quite similar to those of another big-time recruit from a big-time school who had an inconsistent career -- Carson Palmer. Palmer started 45 games and completed 59.1 percent of passes, but finished on a positive note by winning the Rose Bowl and Heisman Trophy and consequently went No. 1 overall. Henne didn't finish as strong, and isn't quite as good a prospect, but isn't as far off as some might think. After a nice performance at the Senior Bowl, he seems to have an outside shot at the first round, and would be a good pick there. He is a virtual lock to be at least an above-average professional.
LOL
RE: RE: RE: To be clear, I don't DISLIKE Haskins Â
Here is an actual peer reviewed study done which shares the underlying methodology used. Their conclusion:
Quote:
In sports statistics circles, much has been made about a projection system (Lewin, 2006) for quarterbacks which uses the number of games started in college and college completion percentage to predict future NFL success. In our analyses, these variables were only associated with an indicator of playing at least 48 NFL games, but they were not related to any of our other outcome measures. Generally, college and combine performance statistics provided no additional predictive ability beyond year drafted and draft position. Indeed, in most cases, including college/combine measurements degraded predictive performance, suggesting that the amount of statistical noise in these predictors overwhelms any predictive value they might have.
The reason people hone in on games played in college has nothing to do with predicting future success. It has to do with evaluators distrust in their ability to evaluate a player with limited data available to them. Hence, why conclusions drawn are subject to the law of small numbers.
It's very obvious that you and your dupe sxdxca come to the table with preconceived notions and then try and find data to back up those notions, especially when called out on it. You shared an article from 2008 that claims to have done a study without sharing the underlying methodology. In the real world, that gets thrown out immediately and when you went to backup your claim about the "real experts" all saying Haskins wasn't worthy of a high draft selection you shared an article from heavy.com and Chris Trappasso...
Guys like Greg Gabriel, Dan Orlovsky, Boomer, Dane Brugler, Todd McShay, Eric Galko, Jordan Reid, and many others think very highly of Haskins. Does that mean he'll be an all-pro and has no holes in his game? No, he's raw and has mechanical issues to work on. But he has sky high upside. It's not nearly as black and white as some here seem to feel strongly about. But hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative!
When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Uh talk about cherry picking a stat...
Read and learn about how college games started relates to NFL success.
This is old wisdom that has not changed...
Here is an article from 2008
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
Quote:
However, there is a more complex reason why games started is an important indicator. In general, NFL scouts do an excellent job of talent evaluation when they have enough information....
Uh, from your article
Quote:
Chad Henne (47 starts, 59.7 percent completion rate)
Henne is the type of player scouts never miss on -- a four-year starter from an elite college program. His 59.7 percent completion rate isn't bad, but it isn't that good either. Henne never displayed the consistency of an elite quarterback while at Michigan, but he did show an NFL arm.
Henne's college stats are quite similar to those of another big-time recruit from a big-time school who had an inconsistent career -- Carson Palmer. Palmer started 45 games and completed 59.1 percent of passes, but finished on a positive note by winning the Rose Bowl and Heisman Trophy and consequently went No. 1 overall. Henne didn't finish as strong, and isn't quite as good a prospect, but isn't as far off as some might think. After a nice performance at the Senior Bowl, he seems to have an outside shot at the first round, and would be a good pick there. He is a virtual lock to be at least an above-average professional.
LOL
Evaluating is still a crapshoot. What more games started allows the evaluators is more data points about the player to reduce the risk of failure. WIth more datapoints some players eliminate themselves, others don't. Nothing is surefire. I never said it was.
Neither is Jones, although I like him better.
Both would be, dare I say a 'Reach'.
Haskins to me has beast or bust written all over him,
would be very leery with that pick!
Not sold on either at this point, but very intrigued by both.
Next.
Link - ( New Window )
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Next.
And you know this how???
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
It's January 7th. A lot can change.
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
I wouldn’t source Dottino if you want credibility.
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Dottino holding out hope that the Giants reacquire Davis Webb.
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
I wouldn’t source Dottino if you want credibility.
The same Dottino who said the Giants were absolutely 100% not taking a QB with the #2 overall pick?
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Lol the dotino argument when has he ever been right? Look I’d take him that’s just me but I always fall into the they take whoever category because I don’t pretend to know who or what they are thinking and they are way more qualified than any of us to make that decision. Just my opinion I think the kid will be a baller just going to take a little time
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Stop hating.
Quote:
Too bad there's 0 chance the Giants draft him.
Next.
And you know this how???
Because Gettleman doesn't reach for an inferior QB just because he plays QB.
Next.
because you know.
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
It's January 7th. A lot can change.
Giants are not drafting Haskins. This will never change. I promise you.
0 chance.
Next.
I didn't know a Giants front office person posted here. Neat!
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Dottino also said that Chubb would be the pick about a month before the draft and Webb would take over Eli .
Never. Dottino said Barkley all the way.
Quote:
In comment 14252353 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
Too bad there's 0 chance the Giants draft him.
Next.
And you know this how???
Because Gettleman doesn't reach for an inferior QB just because he plays QB.
inferior to who exactly?
Quote:
Better talent will be on the board.
Stop hating.
I’m sorry, what?
Quote:
In comment 14252355 Ssanders9816 said:
Quote:
Better talent will be on the board.
Stop hating.
I’m sorry, what?
I said stop hating
Quote:
In comment 14252362 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
I wouldn’t source Dottino if you want credibility.
The same Dottino who said the Giants were absolutely 100% not taking a QB with the #2 overall pick?
The same Dottino who said Davis Webb was the heir apparent to Eli and blocks anyone on Twitter who reminds him of that.
Quote:
In comment 14252376 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252355 Ssanders9816 said:
Quote:
Better talent will be on the board.
Stop hating.
I’m sorry, what?
I said stop hating
Yeah I heard you. Made no sense the first time or now. I wasn’t hating, I was stating an opinion.
b) it increases the chances that a team will jump ahead of the Giants in order to land Haskins.
I rather pass and regret it. Then draft and regret it.
Quote:
In comment 14252362 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
It's January 7th. A lot can change.
Giants are not drafting Haskins. This will never change. I promise you.
Young, big arm, accurate as hell, adequate mobility, doesn't lock in on receivers, good kid. A lot has to shake out in the pre-draft process but given the current state of affairs at the position on NYG, hard to imagine why he wouldn't be in the mix.
I'm just praying for another sg/MMiller moment.
The idea that he is not possibly in play at 6 is jus winging it.
I rather pass and regret it. Then draft and regret it.
bust factor...based on what?
Quote:
In comment 14252392 Ssanders9816 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252376 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252355 Ssanders9816 said:
Quote:
Better talent will be on the board.
Stop hating.
I’m sorry, what?
I said stop hating
Yeah I heard you. Made no sense the first time or now. I wasn’t hating, I was stating an opinion.
I bet you were on board with drafting a QB last year but if the pick this year is a QB named Haskins you think there will be better talent on the board. SMH
Quote:
In comment 14252362 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
It's January 7th. A lot can change.
Giants are not drafting Haskins. This will never change. I promise you.
You don’t know anything more than anybody else
That's fucking bullshit. Dottino said Chubb would be the pick and thought Webb would end up taking over at QB.
I don't know if he ever wrote anything about Barkley being the pick.
Why make up shit that is verifiable?
Where you saying that same thing last year?
Quote:
In comment 14252363 eli4life said:
Quote:
In comment 14252353 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
Too bad there's 0 chance the Giants draft him.
Next.
And you know this how???
Because Gettleman doesn't reach for an inferior QB just because he plays QB.
inferior to who exactly?
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Sam Darnold
Josh Rosen
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Dottino? Before last years draft he declared Davis Webb as the heir to Eli and said that they don't need to draft a QB.
Quote:
Never. Dottino said Barkley all the way.
That's fucking bullshit. Dottino said Chubb would be the pick and thought Webb would end up taking over at QB.
I don't know if he ever wrote anything about Barkley being the pick.
Why make up shit that is verifiable?
They just making up shit.
Quote:
In comment 14252362 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
Quote:
He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Dottino also said that Chubb would be the pick about a month before the draft and Webb would take over Eli .
Never. Dottino said Barkley all the way.
Wrong, Dottino said that Chubb would be the pick.
Quote:
Is bigger than his franchise QB factor.
I rather pass and regret it. Then draft and regret it.
bust factor...based on what?
Don’t think he performs well in constant pressure. I worry about him reading defense at an NFL level. His deep ball struggled for most of the year. His footwork gets sloppy when moving in the pocket.
Think he benfitted greatly going with an OL that dominated most games and WRs who the defenses couldn’t cover.
I think he is years away from being productive. He’s a project.
But there's risk. He plays with a ton of talent around him, has a ton of time each week behind a great offensive line. His ability to read defenses and make plays under duress at the next level is not easy to know. There is significant risk that wouldn't be there if the Giants picked a different position at 6.
But I like him more than I Josh Allen last year and close to how I felt about Darnold.
It's time to take a QB early.
Haskins, Jones, or Lock are it.
Everyone acting like they are in the know are forgetting that comment.
I prefer Haskins and hope we step up and take him.
Future is now.
Quote:
In comment 14252377 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252363 eli4life said:
Quote:
In comment 14252353 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
Too bad there's 0 chance the Giants draft him.
Next.
And you know this how???
Because Gettleman doesn't reach for an inferior QB just because he plays QB.
inferior to who exactly?
Baker Mayfield
Josh Allen
Sam Darnold
Josh Rosen
you're delousional
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Has no clue what Dottino predicted last year yet keeps posting like he does
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
well said
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Quote:
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers has been playing at a higher level than Eli though
Quote:
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
No, but it was over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor.
Quote:
what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
Agreed!
How was Baker Mayfield's offensive line in college?
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers has been playing at a higher level than Eli though
Based on what? Leading the league in INTs twice? Leading the league in gsme ending INTs for a few years? Some years he was better, some years he was worse.
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In comment 14252358 eli4life said:
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He can learn from him and it gives us time to finish the line.
No, Gettleman takes BPA. Haskins not even close to the BPA at #6.
Paul Dottino already definitely said, the Giants will absolutely not draft Haskins.
Stop with this. Not happening.
Lol the dotino argument when has he ever been right?
Lol when have you ever been right?
Or the ILB White from LSU, guy is a complete stud
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
You just said "Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future." So we are going to suck with Eli but then you say we won't be in position to get a top 10 pick? Which is it? If we have to trade up so be it. The Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs just traded up for QB's. How did that work out for them?
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers won 9 games in 3 of those years. So that’s 4/7 with a winning record and 3 a win away from the playoffs. I love Eli but Rivers has been a better quarterback for at least 3 years now.
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
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Get ready for another year of Eli Manning.
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
If Gettleman takes a QB that he isn't sold on just for the sake of taking a QB he should be shown the door promptly.
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Was it over for the chargers when rivers failed to make the playoffs 7 of 8 years?
Rivers won 9 games in 3 of those years. So that’s 4/7 with a winning record and 3 a win away from the playoffs. I love Eli but Rivers has been a better quarterback for at least 3 years now.
Rivers failed to make the playoffs in 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. 4 straight years.
There is a lot of inconsistency when discussing Rivers. He's been the victim of a bad team while eli is the cause of a bad team....
That's offensive. Some of these guys who want Haskins haven't actually seen Haskins play but they did watch a 5 minute highlight video so they are more informed than the Giants scouting department.
2 why you want to kick the QB can down the road yet again?
3 why you think its prudent to assume we will be in a good position to draft a QB next year (let's say the good QBs go early then and we are 8-8 this season and are drafting 15th)
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In comment 14252467 Brown Recluse said:
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Get ready for another year of Eli Manning.
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
If Gettleman takes a QB that he isn't sold on just for the sake of taking a QB he should be shown the door promptly.
This.
And he will not be sold on Haskins.
All you Haskins lovers - keep wasting your time.
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"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
Bingo.
Well said.
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Why because they don’t like the guy you do? This is the exact garbage that has brought this site way down the past few years. I personally like the kid but I can understand the argument against and wanting to wait until 2020 draft for the next big qb draft. Where I disagree is we will improve enough this offseason to put us to far out of reach to get one of them. If they are sold on him get him at 6. If he’s the guy than it don’t matter 6 or 15. If not go elsewhere that simple. But I guess on the “ new” bbi we can’t have disagreements without ridicule as if anyone actually knows what the front office thinks
Thank you. What's funny is when you criticize Eli the offensive line is the 1st thing mentioned.
Get BPA which is very likely a DL / LB or OL
QB in 2020
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Basically we don't want to force a pick. At #6 you have a chance to draft an elite/impact player. Taking a QB at six,to fill a need, when you don't believe he is elite could set the team back at QB for a number of years. This team has a lot of holes to fill, and this draft is starting to look deep in some of those areas. I would not be upset if the team filled other needs, and went QB in 2020; which is shaping up to be a very strong/deep QB class. Just because this QB is the tallest midget in the room, doesn't make him a smart pick at #6.
Were you saying this last year?
Pass.
Hell, evaluating a guy with a bad OL might be harder. Are you seeing him reacting to pressure or is he just skittish.
Seems like a really ignorant thing to challenge.
I am still disappointed in the selection of Barkley over a QB. And we still need a QB sitting in the #6 hole. But Haskins is not the answer.
Quite a predicament the boys at Jints Central have created - no idea what they are going to do with Eli (well, what Mara wants to do), an unwillingness to play Lauletta in insignificant games to see his ability under live fire, never played Tanney...which means the next QB is unlikely on the roster...no chance we get into the Foles sweepstakes (which would be smart), not the best market with FA QBs this year, etc.
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In comment 14252475 ryanmkeane said:
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"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
Bingo.
Well said.
So, by that logic, we should eliminate Tua and Fromm next year and Trevor Lawrence the year after that.
Top line and top wide receivers? I don't know about that. All I know is that he looked a heck of a lot better than JT Barrett.
2 why you want to kick the QB can down the road yet again?
3 why you think its prudent to assume we will be in a good position to draft a QB next year (let's say the good QBs go early then and we are 8-8 this season and are drafting 15th)
For some of us it isn't that we don't like the kid. We are just very concerned that he only started for one season, plays in a simple offense, has played behind a great offensive line so we don't know how he will handle consistent pressure in his face.
1. Tua- Durability could be an issue
2. Fromm- Struggled in big games this year
4. Herbert- Had a bad 2nd half
22. Eason- Hasn't played a game in over a year.
So you would rather pass on a guy like Haskins, who just threw 50 TD passes for that crapshoot?? Makes no sense to kick the can down the road AGAIN.
Link - ( New Window )
Those guys have failed at almost three times the rate of QB's who started more than a season in similar draft slots.
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I don't know how to evaluate Haskins. I watch him standing behind that top o-line and throwing to top receivers and wonder how he'd do at Duke.
How was Baker Mayfield's offensive line in college?
Baker had the best QBR against pressure his senior year in college, maybe even his junior year but i cannot confirm that. Baker balled with or without a pocket.
Lets wait for the "dust to settle" (senior bowl, combine, interviews) before we decide who is the best option at quarterback. Between the ears is maybe more important than physical skills.
I do think based off watching interviews of these guys, the Giants will like Haskins and Jones the most.
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"he had a great OL" thing is such garbage. So now it's a negative if a QB has a good OL in college?
It's a negative if there is an important element missing from the evaluation process. If you don't know how a QB will perform under pressure, if you don't know how fast a QB can go through his progressions to find the open man, if you don't of a QB's ability to turn his back to the defense when executing play action and then turn and find the open man, then how in the hell can you justify spending a top ten pick on him? Haskins isn't the only strong-armed QB in the draft who can complete passes from a clean pocket. That doesn't make him stand out from the crowd.
Well said Milton. Haskins is going to be under a big, bright microscope at the Combine.
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In comment 14252467 Brown Recluse said:
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Get ready for another year of Eli Manning.
Your franchise QB is most likely being drafted in 2020, and I'm sure at that point the Giants will do whatever they have to in the event a trade up is necessary.
If Gettleman passes on a QB 2 straights years, he should be shown the door promptly.
If Gettleman takes a QB that he isn't sold on just for the sake of taking a QB he should be shown the door promptly.
When are you ever completely sold on any player not named Saquon? Even if you have a conviction, that won't mean you won't get it wrong. You guys have to stop with the Getttleman being sold on a QB narrative. We need to move on.
Am I crazy? Fromm played very well against Alabama. He had one bad game last season and that was against LSU. Against Alabama he completed 64% of his passes for 301 yards 3 td's and 0 int's. If that is considered struggling sign me up.
or one of the Williams from Bama DT LT .
Get the QB in 2020 if Herbert was in the draft I would
look to move up and get him .
1. Tua- Durability could be an issue
2. Fromm- Struggled in big games this year
4. Herbert- Had a bad 2nd half
22. Eason- Hasn't played a game in over a year.
So you would rather pass on a guy like Haskins, who just threw 50 TD passes for that crapshoot?? Makes no sense to kick the can down the road AGAIN. Link - ( New Window )
Couldn't have said it better!
Pass.
If he passes on Haskins, there’s your answer. If he takes him, there’s your answer.
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None of you know whether Haskins is worth the pick. Even resident scout Sy seems to be unsure.
Oh come-on. We are all just giving our opinions, and none of us are experts (except maybe for Sy). But at this point, if the experts are unsure, he's probably not someone we should be discussing as the future franchise guy that you want to pick at #6; maybe his performance at the combine will clear things up a little better.
I don't know how throwing to uncovered WR's in shorts at the combine is going to clear anything up.
+1
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Why because they don’t like the guy you do? This is the exact garbage that has brought this site way down the past few years. I personally like the kid but I can understand the argument against and wanting to wait until 2020 draft for the next big qb draft. Where I disagree is we will improve enough this offseason to put us to far out of reach to get one of them. If they are sold on him get him at 6. If he’s the guy than it don’t matter 6 or 15. If not go elsewhere that simple. But I guess on the “ new” bbi we can’t have disagreements without ridicule as if anyone actually knows what the front office thinks
How are waiting for 2020 when nothing gauranted on who's coming out or what our draft position is? I love hearing these ridiculous ideas when no one can predict the future. So let's pass on a QB this year who may or may not be the answer for a QB next year who may or may not be the answer.Is that right?
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In comment 14252441 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
You just said "Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future." So we are going to suck with Eli but then you say we won't be in position to get a top 10 pick? Which is it? If we have to trade up so be it. The Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs just traded up for QB's. How did that work out for them?
What the hell are you talking about. I'm for drafting Haskins this year not holding on to Eli.
The QB talk is counter-productive to that strategy.
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Like I do Coach K point guards. They are highly productive but don’t translate to the pro game.
I thought he played more of the 2 for Duke. I thought Nolan Smith was the PG.
played well vs Bama. He struggled against LSU and Texas. And they just ran the ball vs Texas. I was high on him and watched that Texas game which was alarming.
Pass.
Really, what does that mean?
There is a lot of inconsistency when discussing Rivers. He's been the victim of a bad team while eli is the cause of a bad team....
Well, Rivers does have a lifetime record of 118-90. And he's had 3 losing seasons out of 13.
Yes, he'd had some dark seasons, but he's responded the last two seasons. That division was out of their grasp for several years when Manning came to Denver. Those Denver teams were stacked.
The Chargers were a playoff team last year if they didn't have a high school kicker the first quarter of the season. So Rivers has demonstrated that he's still a great QB and can lead a team.
If you build the offensive line some more and put a young quarterback into a system built on a great run game with elite skill players around him, he has a much better chance of succeeding as well as the TEAM.
You basically lower your bust chance because the guy won't have to be elite to ensure the offense is successful. You also can take the time needed to gradually progress his game, not asking too much of him all the time.
This is not in support of, or against Haskins. Rather a point to the crowd that thinks the sky is falling if the Giants don't take a qb at 6. There is an excellent argument to be made the choice i just laid out is makes much more sense for the team as is constructed.
Watching Philly made me depressed because it showed how having an elite offensive line really elevates your chances of winning on any given day. The story of the Colts - Texans game? Houston's defensive line got dominated. Lost in the Parkey noise? Mack had one sack and often times was MIA. Philly's offensive line won that game. They took away Chicago's biggest strength. Building that line remains priority #1 in my humble opinion.
If he passes on Haskins, there’s your answer. If he takes him, there’s your answer.
Yes, his work with Lauletta has been sublime.
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In comment 14252460 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14252441 Jay on the Island said:
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
If Haskins is the pick he won't be ready in 2019 anyway so you need a stopgap. My plan is to go with Eli for one more year and then target a QB in 2020. I prefer Fromm but there will be a few other good options.
How do expect to do that without giving up future draft picks? With as much parity in the league do you think we will have another 5 or less win season to be in the top 10?
You just said "Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future." So we are going to suck with Eli but then you say we won't be in position to get a top 10 pick? Which is it? If we have to trade up so be it. The Rams, Eagles, Texans, and Chiefs just traded up for QB's. How did that work out for them?
What the hell are you talking about. I'm for drafting Haskins this year not holding on to Eli.
Holy shit I have to explain to you what you said. You said the Giants will suck with Eli if they stick with him next season. You then said the Giants won't be in position to draft a QB because they won't be bad enough to get a top 10 pick. If Eli sucks we will have a top 10 pick so you contradicted yourself.
They didn’t have to wash Haskins jersey after the game which is the point everyone is making.
Absolutely. Dumb is an understatement.
I'm sure the rest of the league is eager to cooperate to make sure the Giants get what they want...
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also had a 4 win season and a 5 win season, and I've been lectured on BBI several times that good QB's not have those types of years, let alone two of them.
There is a lot of inconsistency when discussing Rivers. He's been the victim of a bad team while eli is the cause of a bad team....
Well, Rivers does have a lifetime record of 118-90. And he's had 3 losing seasons out of 13.
Yes, he'd had some dark seasons, but he's responded the last two seasons. That division was out of their grasp for several years when Manning came to Denver. Those Denver teams were stacked.
The Chargers were a playoff team last year if they didn't have a high school kicker the first quarter of the season. So Rivers has demonstrated that he's still a great QB and can lead a team.
And yesterday proved he still needs that defense to carry him ;)
Plus I rather have a high school kicker than a big 12 defense for the majority of Eli’s last half of his career.
What exactly are his negatives when it comes to his passing?
If you build the offensive line some more and put a young quarterback into a system built on a great run game with elite skill players around him, he has a much better chance of succeeding as well as the TEAM.
You basically lower your bust chance because the guy won't have to be elite to ensure the offense is successful. You also can take the time needed to gradually progress his game, not asking too much of him all the time.
This is not in support of, or against Haskins. Rather a point to the crowd that thinks the sky is falling if the Giants don't take a qb at 6. There is an excellent argument to be made the choice i just laid out is makes much more sense for the team as is constructed.
Watching Philly made me depressed because it showed how having an elite offensive line really elevates your chances of winning on any given day. The story of the Colts - Texans game? Houston's defensive line got dominated. Lost in the Parkey noise? Mack had one sack and often times was MIA. Philly's offensive line won that game. They took away Chicago's biggest strength. Building that line remains priority #1 in my humble opinion.
You can build up the offensive line and find your QB. All four teams minus the Colts traded up for their starting QB's.
Haskins is a no brainer pick.. now let’s see if the Giants won’t screw that up or if they’ll trot out that Dinosaur Eli Manning and his huge cap number
Anything to sell those PSLs
Exactly. Oakland, TB, or even a Jacksonville trade up will happen.
This is true, but it was only for like 10 games anyway.
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we have a highly respected QB maven in Shurmur. We’re not talking HC abilities, just QB evaluation.
If he passes on Haskins, there’s your answer. If he takes him, there’s your answer.
Yes, his work with Lauletta has been sublime.
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
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In comment 14252446 Dutch77 said:
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Don't tell them anything. They would rather lose with a 40 year old Eli than attempt to look towards the future. Can't seem to move on.
Why because they don’t like the guy you do? This is the exact garbage that has brought this site way down the past few years. I personally like the kid but I can understand the argument against and wanting to wait until 2020 draft for the next big qb draft. Where I disagree is we will improve enough this offseason to put us to far out of reach to get one of them. If they are sold on him get him at 6. If he’s the guy than it don’t matter 6 or 15. If not go elsewhere that simple. But I guess on the “ new” bbi we can’t have disagreements without ridicule as if anyone actually knows what the front office thinks
How are waiting for 2020 when nothing gauranted on who's coming out or what our draft position is? I love hearing these ridiculous ideas when no one can predict the future. So let's pass on a QB this year who may or may not be the answer for a QB next year who may or may not be the answer.Is that right?
Maybe you should learn to read and get to me where I said we should wait.
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In comment 14252541 dep026 said:
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Like I do Coach K point guards. They are highly productive but don’t translate to the pro game.
I thought he played more of the 2 for Duke. I thought Nolan Smith was the PG.
It was a bit of a cheat on my part. He got hurt and missed most of the only season he played there. Played like 10 games. Maybe that saved him from getting ruined by Coach K. :)
What exactly are his negatives when it comes to his passing?
Not going to find many negatives about his arm. Probably watched more of the kid than anybody here. He has great arm talent and can hit all the throws. Most knocks seem to be based on the talent around him (silly), and how he'll translate from a spread QB friendly system to a pro style offense. Which is a more valid concern. He didn't take a snap from under center all season so there will be a significant transition. I believe in the talent but he'd be best served to sit for a bit before starting. Don't think he should be a day 1 starter. Fortunately we can offer that scenario.
Normally I'd agree but every single team ahead of us at 6 is not selecting a QB. Only way Haskins gets by us is if a team trades up which could certainly happen.
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he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Exactly. Oakland, TB, or even a Jacksonville trade up will happen.
I do think there's a good possibility we cannot get him without a trade up
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he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Exactly. Oakland, TB, or even a Jacksonville trade up will happen.
And if Shurmur is high on him, there’s no reason to believe we might not move up to get him, just like the other teams. The question is, is he the guy?
It's time to take a QB early.
Haskins, Jones, or Lock are it.
Everyone acting like they are in the know are forgetting that comment.
I prefer Haskins and hope we step up and take him.
Future is now.
True, but......
Reaching for a QB who doesn't pan out is how you go busting through that door, full speed.....
Man I hate posts like this. How the fuck do you know?
They should.
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and Tampa are not drafting a quarterback.
Man I hate posts like this. How the fuck do you know?
It’s his opinion. NO ONE truly knows
TB and Oakland need one too.
It was rumored for weeks that Gruden was leaning towards moving on from Carr.
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and Tampa are not drafting a quarterback.
Man I hate posts like this. How the fuck do you know?
Literally the coach of the Raiders said Carr is not going anywhere, that he is a great quarterback, and will be the QB of the team moving forward.
Literally the GM of the Bucs said that Winston is their guy and the next coach has to work with Winston to get it done. He said to all the coaching candidates...Winston is the QB.
I'm not just predicting or saying stuff to say it. It literally came from the teams themselves.
"I think Derek has played great," Gruden continued. "Somebody told me he had 3,700 yards and 68 percent completions in 13 games. That's astonishing. With three new guards, losing a right tackle, a featured back, three top receivers. The guy is a hell of a player. The guy is a great quarterback. We are very pleased and proud of what he has done. We know we got to get better around him, and that we will."
We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Oakland and Tampa may be full of shit in their commitment to their QBs. The Jags are only 1 spot behind us and could be proactive as well.
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In comment 14252595 ryanmkeane said:
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and Tampa are not drafting a quarterback.
Man I hate posts like this. How the fuck do you know?
It’s his opinion. NO ONE truly knows
Agreed. Its just frustrating how people come off like they know.
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In comment 14252595 ryanmkeane said:
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and Tampa are not drafting a quarterback.
Man I hate posts like this. How the fuck do you know?
It’s his opinion. NO ONE truly knows
The biggest negatives for him are experience and athletic ability. He's not a statue, but he's not mobile either. Guys who leave school as redshirt sophomores don't have long, successful NFL careers. Haskins is leaving after starting only 1 season whereas nearly all of the rest started for 2 years.
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We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
"I'm not going to be the Alabama coach" - Nick Saban
Anything to sell those PSLs
Right. So the Giants are keeping Eli to sell PSLs. Guess you haven't been to the PSL Marketplace lately.
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In comment 14252584 Big Blue '56 said:
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We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
You forgot Case Keenum last year.
Bobby Hurley was never going to be good at the NBA level anyway.
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
This is embarrassing. Reid was the catalyst for Foles. What happened to Foles when Reid left? Bridgewater? Really? Show me his prolific career year. Bradford played okay...fine. But do you want to hang Shurmur's QB bonafides?
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In comment 14252620 bw in dc said:
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In comment 14252584 Big Blue '56 said:
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We don’t know what he’s accomplished with KL, but he was a 4th round pick. That’s where Shurmur probably evaluated him project-wise. Haskins may go high in Round 1 and might very well be someone’s franchise guy. You’re actually are comparing a 4th rounder with a 1st rounder?
Apparently Shurmur was very high on Lauletta. A 4th round pick is a material investment.
Besides Keenum, who exactly has Shurmur molded to be this reputed QB whisperer? And please don't give me McNabb. That was Reid with Shurmur riding in the passenger seat...
Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
You forgot Case Keenum last year.
Jay, he mentioned Keenum, so I had no reason to. 😎
Steve Wojo and Greg Paulus.
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Foles, his first go-around with Philly, Bridgewater was playing decently pre-injury. He had Bradford playing arguably his best ball before he went down. You know more about QBs than Shurmur, so I’ll grant that. :)
This is embarrassing. Reid was the catalyst for Foles. What happened to Foles when Reid left? Bridgewater? Really? Show me his prolific career year. Bradford played okay...fine. But do you want to hang Shurmur's QB bonafides?
It's embarrassing that you're wrong. Foles had his best season under Kelly and Shurmur as OC. WITHOUT Reid in 2013 Foles threw 27 td's and 2 int's.
Put me in the camp that guesses he won't be there at 6. Which is why I am studying Lock and Jones now and will start on Grier next.
Oh, I also don't think DG will pull the trigger on trading up to get Haskins. The Jags or Broncos will though, IMHO. Wild guessing of course, but Denver is already past strike 3 under Elway on the next QB search, and they are not gonna have only Keenum and Simian to trot out next year.
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he shouldn't be there for the Giants at 6. Time will tell.
Put me in the camp that guesses he won't be there at 6. Which is why I am studying Lock and Jones now and will start on Grier next.
Oh, I also don't think DG will pull the trigger on trading up to get Haskins. The Jags or Broncos will though, IMHO. Wild guessing of course, but Denver is already past strike 3 under Elway on the next QB search, and they are not gonna have only Keenum and Simian to trot out next year.
I think the Jags will definitely trade up for a QB. They won't want to pick behind the Giants out of fear that they will go QB.
I don't see him going through his progressions. He seems to stare down his primary receiver which will get him in trouble in the NFL. This could just be a result of his inexperience but it is something to monitor.
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on Haskins is that it's hard to evaluate how good he truly is b/c he had so much time behind the Ohio State OL. But the kid was absolutely lights out, has a huge arm, stands tall in the pocket, scans the field, moves his eyes quickly through his progressions and throws a very accurate ball. He's not a runner at all but he has some elusiveness when he needs it. He's very young and only one yr of college experience but he also showed up and played very well in the biggest games. I truly don't understand what people dislike about his game. If he were a 2 year starter and played in a different conference I don't think anyone would question him going #1 overall.
I don't see him going through his progressions. He seems to stare down his primary receiver which will get him in trouble in the NFL. This could just be a result of his inexperience but it is something to monitor.
This is absolutely inaccurate (at least as it related to the second half of the season when I started watching every one of his snaps). For someone his age he seems very poised in the pocket and does a great job scanning the field with his eyes. Now that being said, it's been relatively easy for him bc he does get a lot of time in the pocket. The real test will be how flustered he gets when he inevitably faces significant pressure in his face but it's hard to determine that at this time.
Agreed.
My plan is to embrace sucking in 2019. If that means more Eli, so be it. Better QB options will present themselves in 2020 and ‘21.
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
My plan is to embrace sucking in 2019. If that means more Eli, so be it. Better QB options will present themselves in 2020 and ‘21.
There's always the risk other teams needing a QB will be thinking the same thing and suck in worse for a higher draft pick.
I agree. If its limited to "he had a good OL" well guess what, the top QBs in 2020 (Tue, Fromm) and in 2021 (Lawrence, Fields) will have played for Bama, Clemson, Georgia and Ohio State. Pretty good OLs, no?
Explain what you dislike about his game.
that being said, it's fair to say that he is harder to evaluate because his talent just seemed superior to everything else out there.
Doesn't mean he's a bad player, just a tougher eval imo.
Haskinsnstruggled with the deep ball for the majority of the year.
that being said, it's fair to say that he is harder to evaluate because his talent just seemed superior to everything else out there.
Doesn't mean he's a bad player, just a tougher eval imo.
Michigan had 1 of the top defense in the country.. Haskins destroyed them
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In comment 14252428 Dmartin said:
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what's your plan for 2019? Another year of Eli? You realize the Giants have missed the playoffs 6/7 years and they started 1-7 again this year. Tear the band-aid off. It's over. Haskins can make all the throws and has enough mobility to be really good in this league.
Basically we don't want to force a pick. At #6 you have a chance to draft an elite/impact player. Taking a QB at six,to fill a need, when you don't believe he is elite could set the team back at QB for a number of years. This team has a lot of holes to fill, and this draft is starting to look deep in some of those areas. I would not be upset if the team filled other needs, and went QB in 2020; which is shaping up to be a very strong/deep QB class. Just because this QB is the tallest midget in the room, doesn't make him a smart pick at #6.
Were you saying this last year?
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In comment 14252487 oldutican said:
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None of you know whether Haskins is worth the pick. Even resident scout Sy seems to be unsure.
Oh come-on. We are all just giving our opinions, and none of us are experts (except maybe for Sy). But at this point, if the experts are unsure, he's probably not someone we should be discussing as the future franchise guy that you want to pick at #6; maybe his performance at the combine will clear things up a little better.
I don't know how throwing to uncovered WR's in shorts at the combine is going to clear anything up.
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Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
O have said this many times, the plan at QB for 2019 is immaterial from a game results standpoint. The Giants are highly unlikely to be a winning team no matter who it is. So the point is to get that guy who has the BEST CHANCE to succeed...
Here is an article from Football Outsiders. They developed a metric to evaluate college QBs. And almost every successful metric in evaluating college QB considers experience. FO considered
1) completion percentage;
2) college games played;
3) age when drafted;
4) experience in a pro-style offense;
5) and functional mobility.
Notice that they use 2 experience related metrics #2 college games played and #4 experience in a pro style offense.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/beating-nfl-drafting-qbs
As I said before almost every single attempt to develop metrics on evaluating college QBs includes game experience. Bill Parcells famously said he only considers 3 year starters.
So, on average, a guy that has only 1 year in a QB friendly system such as OSU has a much higher bust rate.
Just to illustrate the point, I am not claiming that these are real number, just illustrative. Lets say you are building up your team and need a new QB that you want to get through the draft. You will suck until you have your new QB, but you have invest 5 years in that guy. Only after 5 years will you know if he is a success or a bust, and if he is a bust you can move on...
In the first year of your QB search there is a player that was a 1 year starter in an offense like OSU. He would have an 60% probability of being a bust.
In the second year of your QB search, there are several players somebody who are 3 year starters from a mixed Spread/Pro Offensive style like Fromm at Georgia. These guys have a bust probability of 30%.
Also lets assume that success in either case equates to the same level of play. I.E. they have the same ceiling.
One last assumption, in either case, if your guy busts after 5 years your next pick has a 45% bust factor (squarely between the 2 60% guy and the 30% guys)
Ok lets do the match to see on average how many years out of the next 15 your team will suck being stuck in QB hell...
Option 1: pick the 60% bust factor guy year 1:
.6 * (5 + (.45 * ( 5 + (.45 * 5))))= 4.96 years
Option 3: wait a year and pick the player with the 30% bust rate
1 + .3 * (5 + (.45 * ( 5 + (.45 * 5)))) = 3.48
Now I am not claiming these bust rates are 100% accurate statistics, I used them to make the point. If you go with 1st guy, you might not suck at all going forward, but you are more likely he will fail and you waste 5 years and try again. In the second scenario, even though you are guaranteeing that you will suck for 1 additional year, getting the player with the lower bust percentage later still yields a better result. If repeated enough times, the average number of years your team will suck is much lower in the second scenario, where you pick the player with the lower percentage bust rate.
Now the real model for this is much more complex, and in fact the model above for the 30% bust rate player extends over 16 years not 15, so it needs to be adjusted down slightly.
The point of this is to show that in whatever model teams are using to predict the success rate of QBs, that if there is enough qualitative difference in the evaluation metrics between the 2 candidates, it can be better to wait a year for the better candidate.
Haskins, because of the lack of experience, and the system he played in, has a higher probability of being a bust, as measured by the most successful metrics for college QBs out there, than will players like Tua and Fromm (and even Herbert) when they come out. No metrics out there are perfect, there are players that break the metrics and force them to be re-evaluated. Sometimes they are just outliers. It happens.
Keep in mind we have another player in the NFL right now that was very similar to Haskins when he came out. Mitch Trubitsky. The jury is stil out on him. But do you think right now, that Chicago wishes they took Mahomes who had much more starting experience in college?
My guess is another day three QB to compete with Lauletta.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
Haskins has no downfield accuracy. He struggles to throw the deep ball.
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Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Throws a duck under the slightest hint of pressure. Absolutely horrendous under pressure.
Haskins is an awful deep ball thrower.
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Using assets to move up is a different story.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
How can you say that last sentence? I'm not even a huge Haskins guy but that is bullshit. No one knows if any of those three will be good. Why are people on here pretending like Tua and Fromm have't also benefited from having some awesome talent beside them?
I also do not understand the "1 read" complaints on Hasksins considering a lot of film junkies have said he reads defenses well.
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Using assets to move up is a different story.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
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he made Michigan look like Eastern Michigan out there.
that being said, it's fair to say that he is harder to evaluate because his talent just seemed superior to everything else out there.
Doesn't mean he's a bad player, just a tougher eval imo.
Michigan had 1 of the top defense in the country.. Haskins destroyed them
Yeah but the dog ate their homework.
Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
[quote] In comment 14252615 GoBlue6599 said:
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Haskins will be worth it.. his downfield accuracy would bring out the best in OBJ and Engram.. we also get to see the OL block for a QB who wont be a sitting duck.. Haskins could rejuvenate this whole franchise
Haskins has no downfield accuracy. He struggles to throw the deep ball. [/quote
Not from the OSU games I watched.
And that is the key right there. 20 years old. 14 starts. Already very accurate and goes through progressions. Absolutely incredible ceiling with him.
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In comment 14252785 ajr2456 said:
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Using assets to move up is a different story.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
Their are bust percentage metrics based on the number of years stating and project draft round... So yes 1 more year of football does lower their bust potential according to the metrics.
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In comment 14252785 ajr2456 said:
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Using assets to move up is a different story.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
You are still not a college QB scouting expert.
He still has only 1 year of tape (only 4 games for you) and pretty much all against lower talent levels.
He is still in a QB friendly situation that makes him almost impossible to evaluate. EVEN THE REAL EXPERTS agree on that.
They are massive and control the Depth of the pocket. His Guards and Center are absolute walls.
He never has to throw from a dirty pocket, with anyone near his feet.
Every single time - 'clean pocket after clean pocket after clean pocket.
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
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In comment 14252818 .McL. said:
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In comment 14252785 ajr2456 said:
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Using assets to move up is a different story.
I’d wager the 2020 class isn’t going to be as highly regarded at this time next year.
They’re not the prospects they’re made out to be by some. A lot of question marks.
On what basis is Haskins worth he #6 pick. You state it as fact, with nothing to support it.
Are you a college QB expert, and has had the opportunity to study the all 22 for hours on end? Have you met with him and seen him throw? Have you done classroom sessions with him and can see that he has a deep understanding of the game and the position? Have you been able to review his ability to go through progressions and go through them at NFL caliber speed? Does he know where his checkdowns are? How about hot read? Have you timed his delivery? Have you studied his footwork? Can you evaluate his knowledge of blocking schemes and knowing where his escape routes are? Does he have a good feel for pressure? Can he throw under pressure?
I am not a college QB expert. I cannot say what attributes he has or doesn't have. I can say that he has clearly no demonstrated many of the attributes I listed above. He hasn't demonstrated them largely because he is only a 1 year starter, surround by talent way superior to his opponents and in a very friendly Urban Meyer QB system. The few times he has been under pressure has not performed up the level you would hope for, but it happens so rarely its hardly a valid sample. Taken as a whole, the situation he comes from means that he has a greater probability of failure that QBs from other situations. Haskins may turn out to be a great QB, Tua and Fromm may bust, but the probabilities are higher that the opposite will be true.
I’ve actually gotten 4 of his games in the All-22. He’s a smart football, he was responsible for some checks at the LOS, more than other Urban QBs
He makes all the throws. His ability to layer his throws through between levels is a rare trait. His hand talent and touch on the football is very good for QB with limited experience.
The issues with Haskins comes when he leaves too much weight on his back foot on deep balls, when he doesn’t his deep balls are very good. He’s also only really had responsibilities for half field progressions for most of the year. That changed as the year went on.
He improved as the year went on against pressure. If we’re worried about Haskins under pressure have you watched Tua? When he gets pressured his mental processing breaks down and he panics. He’s did it a number of times in the Georgia game and a perfect example is the spin sack he took right before the TD pass in last year’s title game.
Tua and Fromm have a whole year of football left, there’s no certainty their bust percentage is lower.
You are still not a college QB scouting expert.
He still has only 1 year of tape (only 4 games for you) and pretty much all against lower talent levels.
He is still in a QB friendly situation that makes him almost impossible to evaluate. EVEN THE REAL EXPERTS agree on that.
Haskins has never seen a Compressed Pocket, not once, in his entire time in college.
Ok. Nobody here should discuss prospects then.
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. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
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In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
I've watched plenty of Haskins. He is not impressive. Not a 1st round prospect.
Gettleman is an elite scout, and if you think he will be fooled by Haskins, you are out of your mind.
Gettleman isn't an idiot. He is not drafting Haskins.
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In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
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In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
I've watched plenty of Haskins. He is not impressive. Not a 1st round prospect.
Gettleman is an elite scout, and if you think he will be fooled by Haskins, you are out of your mind.
Gettleman isn't an idiot. He is not drafting Haskins.
Can we ban the dupe
My guess is another day three QB to compete with Lauletta.
let's keep drafting scrubs and hope they devlop right? Good plan.
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
Ok. Nobody here should discuss prospects then.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Literally, the local HS where I occasionally help out, has the QB with that responsibility for as long as I can remember. So... I am calling BS on this one...
This times 100. If he's a 2 year starter and performed a ton under pressure he's the number 1 overall.
Quote:
And dismiss it anyway because I’m “not an expert”
Ok. Nobody here should discuss prospects then.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
I’m stating my opinion on Haskins. It’s a message board, that’s what we’re all doing.
There’s plenty of people out there who think is worth, and it’s likely at least one NFL team will too.
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 14252979 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
The point is most college QBs don’t get that responsibility. You seem to not want to like Haskins, instead of keeping an open mind. You’ve made yours up, and anyone who thinks other wise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
I've watched plenty of Haskins. He is not impressive. Not a 1st round prospect.
Gettleman is an elite scout, and if you think he will be fooled by Haskins, you are out of your mind.
Gettleman isn't an idiot. He is not drafting Haskins.
Can we ban the dupe
For stating a fact?
Haskins is an awful QB.
Gettleman isn't drafting him.
You are either naive or completely retarded if u think otherwise.
Link - ( New Window )
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Everything he does is slow.
Byron Leftwich 2.0
Atrocious.
Link - ( New Window )
You have to be football retarded to think this guy is a good QB.
He is atrocious
Link - ( New Window )
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
I wouldn't even take him at #38.
He's Byron Leftwich 2.0
Just a really really bad QB
Watch his tape against Michigan State, Purdue, Penn State, Nebraska. He is painful to watch. Everything he does is slow.
Kyle Lauletta fits Pat Shurmur/Dave Gettleman more than Haskins ever will.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
All the 2020 QBs you want have played with better talent then nearly every team they play. How is that a knock? Why are they more certain of prospects?
Quote:
And dismiss it anyway because I’m “not an expert”
Ok. Nobody here should discuss prospects then.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
I’m calling BS here. Which “real expert” has said Haskins isn’t worth a top 6 pick? You stated this on another thread and your only point of reference was McShay who gave him the same grade he gave Mayfield last year and a higher one than he gave anyone in 2017. Not to mention, right there with Goff and Wentz.
Quote:
.
You have to be football retarded to think this guy is a good QB.
He is atrocious
Link - ( New Window )
12/18
What are some of your previous handles?
Zero conceptual understanding of what makes a good NFL QB.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Quote:
In comment 14253066 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
.
You have to be football retarded to think this guy is a good QB.
He is atrocious
Link - ( New Window )
12/18
What are some of your previous handles?
Ad hominem attack
Haskins is really really bad, and Dave Gettleman knows it.
He will be there at 6, and the Giants will easily pass without thinking twice.
Bottom line.
Quote:
In comment 14252971 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
Quote:
In comment 14253007 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252971 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
You sure you want to open up that can of worms? We could be here all night listening to his issues.
Quote:
In comment 14253007 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252971 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Yea I think we’re done here. Back under the bridge for you.
The talk of Haskins-to-Giants is extremely annoying because
1) He sucks on the football field
2) It's never ever happening. I'll bet everything I own the Giants won't draft him.
Yea I think we’re done here. Back under the bridge for you.
He doesn't make NFL throws. All manufactured easy completions to wide open receivers.
Urban Meyer System QB, a poor man's Alex Smith. Nothing more.
Quote:
In comment 14253056 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253007 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252971 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure; sounds like you're describing Eli. Plus you said he's inaccurate, I didn't realize a 70% season completion percentage was inaccurate (67% in that Purdue game you linked).
Quote:
In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
Quote:
Your issues with Haskins seem to be about far more than football.
The talk of Haskins-to-Giants is extremely annoying because
1) He sucks on the football field
2) It's never ever happening. I'll bet everything I own the Giants won't draft him.
If you know it’s not happening then why do you care? STFU and go away
Quote:
In comment 14253109 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253056 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253007 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252971 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure; sounds like you're describing Eli. Plus you said he's inaccurate, I didn't realize a 70% season completion percentage was inaccurate (67% in that Purdue game you linked).
Eli processes quickly and makes quick decisions. Haskins literally the opposite. Slow in everything.
Manufactured completions (Urban Meyer's system) doesn't mean he's accurate.
Quote:
In comment 14252699 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
I’m starting to think he is Paul Dottino
Quote:
In comment 14253129 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253109 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253056 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253007 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252971 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14252957 .McL. said:
Quote:
In comment 14252859 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
. Haskins blitz - ( New Window )
So what was I supposed to see there. That the OSU line adjusted very well to the overload and blitz on the offenses left side. And the fact that the line gave him all day long to hit a SHALLOW crossing route to a guy that was open by 5 yards...
Ok he saw the overload, walked to the line and made sure they knew who the mike was...
WOW, I'm impressed.
sarcasm off
Exactly.
Haskins is a fraud.
I beginning to think your issue with Haskins is deeper than his game.
It's exactly his game.
Haskins is a horrible QB
See link Link - ( New Window )
I watched it, what are your issues?
He is really really bad in everything u look for in an NFL franchise QB?
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure, never makes an NFL throw, is totally useless under pressure, gets easy manufactured Completions in Urban Meyer's system.
Urban Meyer QBs don't succeed in the NFL for a reason. They are system QBs. Their gaudy stats in college are fraudulent and deceiving to casual football fans who don't know any better (like many in this thread). Alex Smith is the #1 Urban Meyer QB and he only did well in Andy Reid's West Coast college offense, and was mediocre at his peak.
This guy Haskins is worse than Alex Smith. Far worse.
Slow in everything he does, inaccurate, a sloth with no footwork, horrendous deep ball, throws a duck at the slightest hint of pressure; sounds like you're describing Eli. Plus you said he's inaccurate, I didn't realize a 70% season completion percentage was inaccurate (67% in that Purdue game you linked).
Eli processes quickly and makes quick decisions. Haskins literally the opposite. Slow in everything.
Manufactured completions (Urban Meyer's system) doesn't mean he's accurate.
Not quick enogh to avoid being sacked 87 times the pst 2 years.
Quote:
you regale us some more about Dottino? That was enthralling earlier.
I’m starting to think he is Paul Dottino
LOL
Quote:
In comment 14252745 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14252699 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Good thing you're not the GM.
Quote:
In comment 14252745 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14252699 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Lol this guy.
Quote:
you regale us some more about Dottino? That was enthralling earlier.
I’m starting to think he is Paul Dottino
Wow, nailed it
Quote:
In comment 14253212 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14252745 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14252699 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Good thing you're not the GM.
Don't worry....the real GM won't be drafting Haskins.
Quote:
In comment 14252745 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14252699 Josh in the City said:
Quote:
In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
Quote:
Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
#38? I would, sign me up!
Quote:
In comment 14252970 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
And dismiss it anyway because I’m “not an expert”
Ok. Nobody here should discuss prospects then.
I dismiss it because you state for a FACT that he is worth the #6 pick. Which is absolutely contrary to what almost every REAL expert out there is saying. And they have the benefit of all 14 games, talking to people around them, and in some cases probably talking to Haskins himself. So yeah, I tend to dismiss you're non-expert opinion as fact.
I’m calling BS here. Which “real expert” has said Haskins isn’t worth a top 6 pick? You stated this on another thread and your only point of reference was McShay who gave him the same grade he gave Mayfield last year and a higher one than he gave anyone in 2017. Not to mention, right there with Goff and Wentz.
CBS has him ranked 25th
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2019-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-dwayne-haskins-josh-allen-and-other-prospects-raise-stock-after-bowl-games/
Here is an article (granted its from Nov 3rd but it makes the same point I am making about experience)
[url]https://heavy.com/sports/2018/11/dwayne-haskins-is-the-ohio-st-qb-a-first-round-selection/[url]
Rivals' MIKE FARRELL'S take
“This is a really weak quarterback class compared to last year, and I’m not sure Haskins would have been a first-rounder last April with Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen and Lamar Jackson. However, who else are you going to take in the first round, if not Haskins? With Herbert coming back and guys like Jones, Grier and Lock being second- or third-rounders, you know someone will make Haskins a first-rounder. I’m a little bit surprised at his development in college because I didn’t see him as a Heisman candidate, but he’s done a great job under the tutelage of Day. Will he be an NFL star? I don’t see it, but I’ve certainly been wrong before.”
Mike Farrell's view coincides with mine... The only reason Haskins will get pushed up into top 20 or higher is because there are no other choices... Experts are moving him up for that reason as well... Just because there isn't a better choice at QB doesn't make him a good pick especially as high as #6.
Do I need to continue?
Over.
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In comment 14253243 SaqBar999 said:
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In comment 14253212 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 14252745 The_Boss said:
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In comment 14252699 Josh in the City said:
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In comment 14252667 The_Boss said:
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Do not waste a pick on a QB in this draft in any round. The time to do so was last spring and perhaps in 2020. OL, Edge, LB’s, FS.
Explain what you dislike about his game.
Urban Meyers isn’t known to produce pro ready QB’s. Alex Smith’s career was very underwhelming. The class itself sucks. I don’t want to take a player and feel like he was forced. It’s a strong defensive draft. We have issues at just about every position on defense. I’m fairly confident when all the testing, pro days, in private interviews/workouts are completed, the data will suggest that Haskins is not worthy of #6.
So basically nothing about Haskins himself or his play? You don’t like him bc of his coach and this QB class and how it will make you feel? That pretty much sums up most of the Haskins naysayers. Fact is, kid is the real deal.
You're clearly a casual football fan who doesn't understand the game. Haskins is far from the real deal. The guy blows.
I wouldn't take Haskins with the #38 pick, let alone the #6 pick.
Gettleman won't take him...and you will see on draft day. Gettleman is an elite scout. He doesn't get fooled by complete frauds like garbage ass Haskins.
Good thing you're not the GM.
Don't worry....the real GM won't be drafting Haskins.
Let me guess he called you and said as much right.
Lol. I thought you wanted experts? Chris Traspasso is awful and Mike covers high school recruiting.
So says who? You?
Now you are the expert?
What do you have backing you up?
A bunch of mocks... As I said before mocks don't count, that is the GUESS as to what team will do in the draft. Its not a ranking.
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When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Uh talk about cherry picking a stat...
Read and learn about how college games started relates to NFL success.
This is old wisdom that has not changed...
Here is an article from 2008
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
However, there is a more complex reason why games started is an important indicator. In general, NFL scouts do an excellent job of talent evaluation when they have enough information. The more film that exists of a player, the easier it is to find weaknesses. When scouts don't get sufficient information, they place too much weight on "measurables" and off-field workouts, and make mistakes like Couch, Leaf or Akili Smith.
Sometimes, when a player starts a lot of games, scouts have enough film to figure out that he is truly a "system quarterback," and not an NFL prospect. That's why Kliff Kingsbury and Chris Leak were not drafted high despite strong college numbers. Because of the assumption that scouts can do their job with the right information, these projections apply only to quarterbacks chosen in the first two rounds.
certainly 14 is wayyyyy below that benchmark.
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In comment 14253069 .McL. said:
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When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Uh talk about cherry picking a stat...
Read and learn about how college games started relates to NFL success.
This is old wisdom that has not changed...
Here is an article from 2008
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
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However, there is a more complex reason why games started is an important indicator. In general, NFL scouts do an excellent job of talent evaluation when they have enough information....
Uh, from your article
Chad Henne (47 starts, 59.7 percent completion rate)
Henne is the type of player scouts never miss on -- a four-year starter from an elite college program. His 59.7 percent completion rate isn't bad, but it isn't that good either. Henne never displayed the consistency of an elite quarterback while at Michigan, but he did show an NFL arm.
Henne's college stats are quite similar to those of another big-time recruit from a big-time school who had an inconsistent career -- Carson Palmer. Palmer started 45 games and completed 59.1 percent of passes, but finished on a positive note by winning the Rose Bowl and Heisman Trophy and consequently went No. 1 overall. Henne didn't finish as strong, and isn't quite as good a prospect, but isn't as far off as some might think. After a nice performance at the Senior Bowl, he seems to have an outside shot at the first round, and would be a good pick there. He is a virtual lock to be at least an above-average professional.
LOL
Here is an actual peer reviewed study done which shares the underlying methodology used. Their conclusion:
The reason people hone in on games played in college has nothing to do with predicting future success. It has to do with evaluators distrust in their ability to evaluate a player with limited data available to them. Hence, why conclusions drawn are subject to the law of small numbers.
It's very obvious that you and your dupe sxdxca come to the table with preconceived notions and then try and find data to back up those notions, especially when called out on it. You shared an article from 2008 that claims to have done a study without sharing the underlying methodology. In the real world, that gets thrown out immediately and when you went to backup your claim about the "real experts" all saying Haskins wasn't worthy of a high draft selection you shared an article from heavy.com and Chris Trappasso...
Guys like Greg Gabriel, Dan Orlovsky, Boomer, Dane Brugler, Todd McShay, Eric Galko, Jordan Reid, and many others think very highly of Haskins. Does that mean he'll be an all-pro and has no holes in his game? No, he's raw and has mechanical issues to work on. But he has sky high upside. It's not nearly as black and white as some here seem to feel strongly about. But hey, never let the facts get in the way of a good narrative!
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14253073 SaqBar999 said:
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In comment 14253066 ajr2456 said:
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.
You have to be football retarded to think this guy is a good QB.
He is atrocious
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12/18
What are some of your previous handles?
Ad hominem attack
Haskins is really really bad, and Dave Gettleman knows it.
He will be there at 6, and the Giants will easily pass without thinking twice.
Bottom line.
Ah, the classic Simo defense tactic. Go visit your dad in the clink.
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In comment 14253096 Strahan91 said:
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In comment 14253069 .McL. said:
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When I watch his game there are some things that concern me, bu there are concerns about almost every guy.
My point about Haskins is that he has not played long enough, and he has played with surrounding talent that is so superior to the opponent, that I think it's almost impossible to make a meaningful evaluation.
In the past prospect like this have a higher than normal bust rate. I don't like taking that kind of a chance at #6. At #38, yes, not #6.
Again, this is untrue. 3 QBs since the 70’s have made 15 or fewer starts and been first round picks. One bust (Sanchez), one hit (Cam Newton) and one jury is still out (Trubisky)
Uh talk about cherry picking a stat...
Read and learn about how college games started relates to NFL success.
This is old wisdom that has not changed...
Here is an article from 2008
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=3350135
Quote:
However, there is a more complex reason why games started is an important indicator. In general, NFL scouts do an excellent job of talent evaluation when they have enough information....
Uh, from your article
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Chad Henne (47 starts, 59.7 percent completion rate)
Henne is the type of player scouts never miss on -- a four-year starter from an elite college program. His 59.7 percent completion rate isn't bad, but it isn't that good either. Henne never displayed the consistency of an elite quarterback while at Michigan, but he did show an NFL arm.
Henne's college stats are quite similar to those of another big-time recruit from a big-time school who had an inconsistent career -- Carson Palmer. Palmer started 45 games and completed 59.1 percent of passes, but finished on a positive note by winning the Rose Bowl and Heisman Trophy and consequently went No. 1 overall. Henne didn't finish as strong, and isn't quite as good a prospect, but isn't as far off as some might think. After a nice performance at the Senior Bowl, he seems to have an outside shot at the first round, and would be a good pick there. He is a virtual lock to be at least an above-average professional.
LOL
Evaluating is still a crapshoot. What more games started allows the evaluators is more data points about the player to reduce the risk of failure. WIth more datapoints some players eliminate themselves, others don't. Nothing is surefire. I never said it was.
Neither is Jones, although I like him better.
Both would be, dare I say a 'Reach'.
Haskins to me has beast or bust written all over him,
would be very leery with that pick!