(minimum 500 snaps)
1. WR Odell Beckham Jr - 90.0
2. ED Olivier Vernon - 86.3
3. RB Saquon Barkley - 85.9
4. DI Dalvin Tomlinson - 78.9
5. T Nate Solder - 74.2
Honorable Mention:
Snacks - 89.9 (traded)
Evan Engram - 76.5
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And a PFF tweet:
Matt Stopsky
@PFF_Stopsky
All of this Vernon hate is confusing. If you think 7 sacks, 46 pressures & 22 stops in 11 games makes him bad/invisible then your expectation of good is unrealistic or you aren't watching.
Additionally 5.5 of his 7 sacks were against Playoff teams. And he was playing through injury.
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I gotta say - interesting on Dalvin Tomlinson. I believe his mom passed away this year which could have affected his concentration as well. Apologies if I'm incorrect but his gloves had RIP MOM written on them all year, plus a midseason position switch. And something still bugs me about trading our best defensive player for a 5th - he must have been really malicious in the lockerroom.
he is not a game wrecker though and he is paid that type of money (and has been hurt).
A lot of is due to those stupid, boneheaded penalties
He's just been hurt a lot and the money doesn't match the production. That's not Vernon's fault.
but he's never going to be worth the money he's being paid. I suppose the question is do the Giants have enough in the cupboard to cut him loose
This is not to say that Vernon is bad.
It is a thoroughly laughable methodology that really should never be referenced.
If he is supposed to crash inside then somebody else has contain...this is why PFF is bullshit..they don't know the assignment
From PFF FAQ:
Why is Player X rated so low or so high in your rankings?
Last Updated: Jul 02, 2018 04:35PM EDT
This is easily the most asked question we get and so it is going to get pride of place at the top of our FAQ. The first thing to note about our “rankings” is that they are not rankings in the traditional sense. We don’t measure talent; we’re not telling you who the best players are. Our rankings are more of a performance evaluation, and a reflection of how efficiently a player made plays in the time he was on the field.
The second thing to take into consideration is that Player X really might be that good or that bad. Just because a player made the Pro Bowl last season doesn’t mean he played well — in fact, he may have played very poorly. NFL coaches don’t watch nearly the amount of tape on other players (certainly not ones they’re not going to play that season) as conventional wisdom would have you believe. When people watch a football game they tend to create a mental highlight reel, remembering a few of the best and a few of the worst plays, and then (based on those few) guessing the overall performance. That is rarely accurate. We are able to go back after the games and grade people on a play-by-play basis, totting up the numbers as we go. Just because a player was largely anonymous during the game doesn’t mean he played poorly. If he edged out a win in every block he made, he could well have had an excellent game overall, even if he didn’t leave anybody on the turf from a pancake block.
Similarly, just because Player X isn’t a household name, don’t discount the possibility that he is having an excellent season that is passing by the notice of most people.
A good case study from the 2009 season is 49ers TE Vernon Davis. Listen to anybody talk about him and they’ll point to his league-leading TD count and proclaim him an All-Pro TE.
Here are some of the things we would say about Vernon Davis and how he rates in our system:
Blocking plays a big part in our grade:
With the size/strength ratio that man has there’s no way on earth that Davis couldn’t block effectively if he used good technique and put in the effort. When we initially graded him in some of the early games of the 2008 season it was apparent he had all the skills but just didn’t seem to care at times; he would make some difficult blocks but then miss a whole host of easy ones. When coach Mike Singletary took over and had “words,” it seemed to light a fire under Davis and for the last half of the season he was very good indeed. We expected this to continue but, after he began getting plaudits for his receiving, his blocking seemed to regress almost to a worse position than previously. Regarding what coaches and writers say on the matter, we take it with a pinch of salt. This is because coaches hardly ever tell the truth and most writers don’t have the time to analyze every player in detail to come to an accurate conclusion.
Penalties Matter:
Most people will forgive players these but when you see the stats for how a penalty effects the chance of a drive progressing, why should they? Davis gave up more penalties than all but three players in ’09 (all of them offensive tackles) and twice as many as most TEs. This has to be taken into account.
Pure Receiving:
We don’t grade people on how many yards they get because in a lot of cases that’s irrelevant. Many of TEs could probably get 1,000 yards if you threw to them enough. Our system is not impressed by dropped passes (13 is a ridiculous number and again league-leading), yardage that doesn’t pick up a first down or at least come close and yardage in garbage time. Frankly when you compare him to Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez or Dallas Clark as a receiver he’s wasn’t in the same zip code; he may well be soon but not last year. There are maybe another half dozen TEs that could pick up the same type of numbers as Davis playing in his place but would do it without screwing up as much as he did in ‘09.
Overall Rankings:
At the moment these simply weigh everything equally. We believe blocking is a vital part of a TEs responsibility in the NFL and so players that struggle with this will be brought down in the overall rankings. We acknowledge that not everybody believes the same thing and so there is nothing to stop people sorting the columns by the attribute that they believe holds the most weight and viewing them that way.
I'm not even addressing the ratings anymore as they are useless.
Barkley not being on their rookie teams tells you anything you need to know on their analysis.
They hated Engram last year notably for his drops and blocking. His rating is a lot higher, but he still isn't a good blocker and drops more than you'd hope.
1. He's paid like a great player, and...
2. He's never healthy.
The bigger thing, IMO, was his position change to the 0/1 technique when Snacks was traded to DET. He performed admirably and I thought improved as the season went on, but needs to continue to add mass to play that position. Certainly a dropoff after Snacks, though.
draft-time article - ( New Window )
Quote:
the Vernon hate either, but his fragility to go with his price tag makes for a tough situation
There's a small contingent of racist Giants fans who think kneeling makes Vernon a bad person. The larger portion of haters just seems to undervalue him.
Or maybe he's just hurt a lot and is getting paid among the top edge rushers in the league.
It is a thoroughly laughable methodology that really should never be referenced.
If we have a beer, any subject is on the table, including the oddities of the German culture, why Will Ferrell and John C. Reilly agreed to do "Holmes and Watson", and if ganglionic cysts on a near 50 year old guy's foot should cause one to exhibit signs of hypochondria.
Scratch the last one - that's no fun to talk about while drinking!
Quote:
the Vernon hate either, but his fragility to go with his price tag makes for a tough situation
There's a small contingent of racist Giants fans who think kneeling makes Vernon a bad person. The larger portion of haters just seems to undervalue him.
Yeah, that's it. Not that he loses contain a few times per game; rarely gets to the QB when it matters and makes some of the biggest boneheaded penalties at the worst time. No it is he kneels...
For $5 mill per he'd be ok. For $17 mill he's vastly over paid.
Simply clueless.
Just silly they take no account for it. .
You have to think his injury may be worse than is being let on. He's an elite edge setter and he definitely took a step back there this year.
The bigger thing, IMO, was his position change to the 0/1 technique when Snacks was traded to DET. He performed admirably and I thought improved as the season went on, but needs to continue to add mass to play that position. Certainly a dropoff after Snacks, though. draft-time article - ( New Window )
Thanks regulator. I felt bad posting something I wasn't sure of.
I'm sure there are some ratings that are off or may not accord with what the average TV viewer or game attendee (i.e. everyone on this thread) may perceive. But it's an objective -- albeit difficult -- attempt to grade every NFL player.
But don't NFL teams pay for their services? Shouldn't that suggest to the PFF naysayers that there is at least some value to what they do?
What would you pose as an alternative? Your half-drunk opinion watching one TV angle and a few highlights?
Unless you are analyzing the all-22 tape and assessing every player every week, I'll take PFF's opinion over yours.
Still, hard to believe he isn't the top-rated player on the team.
Snap counts. Formation breakdowns. Personnel groupings. All irrefutable metrics
Not a single NFL team pay for their analysis on player's or their ratings.
I'm sure there are some ratings that are off or may not accord with what the average TV viewer or game attendee (i.e. everyone on this thread) may perceive. But it's an objective -- albeit difficult -- attempt to grade every NFL player.
But don't NFL teams pay for their services? Shouldn't that suggest to the PFF naysayers that there is at least some value to what they do?
What would you pose as an alternative? Your half-drunk opinion watching one TV angle and a few highlights?
Unless you are analyzing the all-22 tape and assessing every player every week, I'll take PFF's opinion over yours.
Because anything beyond the items Fatman mentioned are complete subject conjecture without inside knowledge.
Quote:
In comment 14252426 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the Vernon hate either, but his fragility to go with his price tag makes for a tough situation
There's a small contingent of racist Giants fans who think kneeling makes Vernon a bad person. The larger portion of haters just seems to undervalue him.
Yeah, that's it. Not that he loses contain a few times per game; rarely gets to the QB when it matters and makes some of the biggest boneheaded penalties at the worst time. No it is he kneels...
For $5 mill per he'd be ok. For $17 mill he's vastly over paid.
Did you read my comment or just respond in anger? I said a small contingent of fans. And they are here on games day in the game thread muttering about patriotism and bullshit. I wasn't talking about you.
The point of pay is fair. He likely is overpaid. But, he's still a top ER in the NFL. And that's worth a lot.
A successful 8 yard slant play... The OL keeps the QB clean enough to make a good throw. The WR makes a good move gto get off the line clean and makes a good catch. Everbody on offense gets good grades right?
But...
Its a huge difference if it was 1st and 10 or 3rd and 10.
On 3rd and 10, that's a bad play. Maybe the WR didn't run deep enough. Maybe the QB should have held it longer to allow the routes to develop more. Maybe the OL needed to hold their blocks longer... Who knows, but it was a failure of a play, and doesn't deserve positive grades.