Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFT: Mets News: David Wright to become special advisor to Mets

pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 4:24 pm

David Wright will assume a new role with the club as Special Advisor to #Mets COO Jeff Wilpon and Brodie Van Wagenen. In a related move, the organization and David mutually agreed to his release from the current roster.

Haven't seen terms  
pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 4:27 pm : link
of his "release" but hopefully this clears up any payroll concerns with including or not including his salary waiting for insurance money to kick in.
.  
pjcas18 : 1/7/2019 4:49 pm : link

Tim Britton
‏Verified account @TimBritton

This does not mean the Mets get the remaining $27M on Wright's contract back. It means they've reached a settlement with the insurance company on it and should have more payroll certainty w/r/t Wright, and he's now off the 40-man roster.
4:40 PM - 7 Jan 2019
If they have reached a settlement  
SJGiant : 1/7/2019 4:53 pm : link
Then the Mets should be spending that money on the bullpen or an everyday higher end player.
this move also frees up enough cash for sterling equities  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 6:06 pm : link
to change all the dead lightbulbs in buildings they manage. Or at least most of them.
Hell yeah...  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 6:19 pm : link
Exactly what we've been waiting on. Doubt we get particulars similar to Cuddyer.
and here it is  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 6:22 pm : link
Quote:
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Following Following @NYPost_Mets
More
Indications are the Mets will wait out the market and see if anything makes sense for bullpen. Unclear how much Brodie Van Wagenen has left to spend this offseason, but it isn’t a lot.


Believe they were around $150m prior to settling with Wright. Not to mention the expectation of recouping close to half of Cespedes' $29m. So if we extremely conservatively call that $20m savings, they are around $130m in payroll right now.

Or right around where the KC Royals #20 ranked opening day payroll was last year ($129.92m).
Where did you see they were getting half of Cespedes's amount back?  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 6:24 pm : link
I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.

Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
RE: Where did you see they were getting half of Cespedes's amount back?  
SJGiant : 1/7/2019 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14252775 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.

Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.


I think the key word is “settlement “ when it comes to David Wright. So while the public may not know the parameters, the Mets certainly know. Therefore there really shouldn’t be any excuses for not adding payroll at this time. Maybe they will only get half Wright’s money this year. But that amount of money is not peanuts.
Jeff Wilpon said the Ces insurance is a little less than Wright's 75%  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 6:48 pm : link
so even if it's just 50% and in the best case Cespedes comes back at the deadline I think that means they would be getting a minimum of 25% of his total salary reimbursed (which would be $7.25m).

Wright's insurance would have covered $11.25m. I doubt the Mets took too many pennies less than that to get to upfront payment, but who knows.

We will never know the exact details of either of the insurance payments but $20m combined seems like a pretty conservative estimate considering Cespedes could very easily be out the entire year (Minaya even said so) in which case his insurance alone would save them close to that amount.
RE: RE: Where did you see they were getting half of Cespedes's amount back?  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14252792 SJGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14252775 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.

Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.



I think the key word is “settlement “ when it comes to David Wright. So while the public may not know the parameters, the Mets certainly know. Therefore there really shouldn’t be any excuses for not adding payroll at this time. Maybe they will only get half Wright’s money this year. But that amount of money is not peanuts.


Still. Whether they know the amount or not we dont if it's that much less or not. Pretty clear they wont get be getting an extra 15 million this year. That should be obvious.
RE: Jeff Wilpon said the Ces insurance is a little less than Wright's 75%  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14252805 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
so even if it's just 50% and in the best case Cespedes comes back at the deadline I think that means they would be getting a minimum of 25% of his total salary reimbursed (which would be $7.25m).

Wright's insurance would have covered $11.25m. I doubt the Mets took too many pennies less than that to get to upfront payment, but who knows.

We will never know the exact details of either of the insurance payments but $20m combined seems like a pretty conservative estimate considering Cespedes could very easily be out the entire year (Minaya even said so) in which case his insurance alone would save them close to that amount.


Before Omar chimed in about anything being gray I saw July 1 as the target. And if it's like Wright's does it not even kick in for 2 months? If true we get 75% of one month (assuming July 1) which equals a whopping 3.75 million. But wait! There's more. He said LESS than Wright. I think you get my point. Pretty wide range and it could be a decent amount or literally next to nothing until we know for sure.
well if you see july 1 as his return date i guess that settles that  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 8:09 pm : link
and it's a lock he hits the shortest possible range of the 8-10 month timeline from Oct 23rd. He does have a track record of healing quickly.

re: the insurance waiting period, Wright's contract supposedly didn't reset the 60 day waiting period if he ended the year on the DL, which was in part why re-activating him was such a drama, so i'd consider it more likely than not Cespedes' insurance would function the same way. But you seem to like giving the wilpons the benefit of the doubt for whatever reason and since we will probably never know for sure carry on.
Based on Wilpon's most recent comments  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 9:17 pm : link
There is no way they are counting anything from Cespedes. If they have a finite amount from Wright and it's settled i think we can reasonably expect that to count and be available but not Cespedes.

"We still pay a big portion of it, OK?" Wilpon said. "When you're talking about $20 million and we're still paying 25 percent, that's a big number... We don't look at it that way. It's in the budget that his contract is what it is and there's a new deductible period that will start, and you only get 75 percent -- it's not just 75 percent as a total -- and then there's costs against that. We had to pay for the policy, which is not cheap.

"So there's other things. It's not dollar-for-dollar of the $20 million, 75 percent we're getting back. It's not that clear cut. But we try and go into the season looking at it like it's all part of the budget."

I could see Wright as the Mets GM one day  
steve in ky : 1/7/2019 9:30 pm : link
.
those comments are from last year  
Eric on Li : 1/7/2019 10:08 pm : link
at the cano press conference 1 month ago he literally said the payroll "has opened up" and they were going to get insurance money from cespedes for the first half of the season and reinvest it (see link). The offseason isn't over but if they cut the payroll relative to last year, after another year of record setting profits in all baseball, the league should take the team from them for chronically lying to their fanbase.
Jeff Wilpon on insurance money and payroll - ( New Window )
Yeah I dont think he committed to saying anything there actually...  
ZGiants98 : 1/7/2019 11:07 pm : link
He said "over time" "some" insurance will be paid back and "SOME" of that will be reinvested into the team. How much are they getting back over time? 3 million for Cespedes or 15? Is he talking about Wirght's portion or Cespedes's? how much is "some"??

At best it's extremely vague and if fans are pinning the Wilpon's to a cross based on those comments they deserve whatever letdown they receive. In no way shape or form is he saying the money for Wright and Cespedes's contracts are getting put back into the 2019 roster.
Arguments about team payroll are acts of futility.  
PhiPsi125 : 1/7/2019 11:54 pm : link
The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.

However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.

It’s weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really don’t anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
Unfortunately  
Jim in Fairfax : 1/8/2019 12:13 am : link
Wright tore a tendon in his index finger while signing his special advisor agreement and is out indefinitely....
RE: Arguments about team payroll are acts of futility.  
giantsFC : 1/8/2019 1:02 am : link
In comment 14253556 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.

However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.

It’s weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really don’t anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.


I think you pretty much described what many of us Mets fans feel down to each exact word.
RE: I could see Wright as the Mets GM one day  
spike : 1/8/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14253151 steve in ky said:
Quote:
.



Too nice to be a GM. Probably bench coach or manager
RE: RE: Arguments about team payroll are acts of futility.  
spike : 1/8/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14253576 giantsFC said:
Quote:
In comment 14253556 PhiPsi125 said:


Quote:


The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.

However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.

It’s weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really don’t anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.



I think you pretty much described what many of us Mets fans feel down to each exact word.


This is why arc defected
That's all true Phi  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 8:58 am : link
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.

Maybe the problem all along hasn’t been the Wilpons  
Shecky : 1/8/2019 9:12 am : link
But instead it’s been Arc?
Sometimes its not an either/or thing  
Metnut : 1/8/2019 9:14 am : link
and two different things can be both true.

Here, IMO, its both true that (i) the Wilpons are a disgrace, will never spend appropriate amounts to put together a powerhouse team, and (ii) the 2019 team has a bunch of interesting players and I'm looking forward to watching them.
RE: Maybe the problem all along hasn’t been the Wilpons  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 9:16 am : link
In comment 14253736 Shecky said:
Quote:
But instead it’s been Arc?

I wouldn't blame Arc for everything but he's certainly partly to blame. I don't think anyone ever thought differently.
That  
DanMetroMan : 1/8/2019 9:16 am : link
Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.
RE: That's all true Phi  
Metnut : 1/8/2019 9:22 am : link
In comment 14253722 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.


Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.

It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
RE: RE: That's all true Phi  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 9:29 am : link
In comment 14253757 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 14253722 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.




Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.

It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.


Come on man, in 2016 the Mets realized a ridiculous # of injuries. Bartolo Colon led the team in starts.

Wright was being relied on to start, deGrom, Harvey both missed significant time, Wheeler had TJS.

And they still won 87 games and lost the WC.

and then the wheels fell off in 2017 in injury terms and it was basically unrecoverable.

Mets are in the rebuild from that.
Sorry  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 9:30 am : link
Wheeler had a setback from TJS recovery in 2016.

RE: That  
GF1080 : 1/8/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14253745 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.


Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.
RE: RE: That  
DanMetroMan : 1/8/2019 9:33 am : link
In comment 14253772 GF1080 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253745 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.



Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.


Crazy good deal for that price. I would have been all over him. Twins are my perennial sleeper and will be again this year.
RE: RE: RE: That's all true Phi  
Metnut : 1/8/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14253769 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253757 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 14253722 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.




Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.

It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.



Come on man, in 2016 the Mets realized a ridiculous # of injuries. Bartolo Colon led the team in starts.

Wright was being relied on to start, deGrom, Harvey both missed significant time, Wheeler had TJS.

And they still won 87 games and lost the WC.

and then the wheels fell off in 2017 in injury terms and it was basically unrecoverable.

Mets are in the rebuild from that.


That's two years in just about a decade. Just like a few of the teams I mentioned (Royals, Blue Jays) but not quite as successful.
Not sure what you're expecting  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 9:44 am : link
the Yankees (for example) haven't won a WS since 2009.

they haven't been to one since then.

In the past decade the only "dominant" teams in terms of playoff success have been the Cardinals, Giants, and Red Sox. Dodgers lost back to back WS, the Rangers lost back to back WS, the Royals split two WS, but in just over a decade only three multiple WS winners (so you can claim better run organization than the rest) - Red Sox, Giants, and Cardinals.

Mets don't need to spend at the Red Sox level, I'd be happy with Cardinals or Giants.
the saddest thing in life is wasted talent  
Eric on Li : 1/8/2019 10:20 am : link
Not getting to see what JDG & Thor (& Wheeler & Diaz) can do in 7 game series will be a shame on this franchise for a long time if they don't do enough around them to make the playoffs the next few seasons. It's right there for the taking even without spending $300m on Harper or Machado.
Fred Wilpon only likes the Brooklyn Dodgers  
spike : 1/8/2019 10:38 am : link
And money.


Maybe when he reaches 90, he will spend the money to win it like the Tigers owner Mickey Illitch did
RE: RE: RE: That  
Eric on Li : 1/8/2019 10:43 am : link
In comment 14253776 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14253772 GF1080 said:


Quote:


In comment 14253745 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.



Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.



Crazy good deal for that price. I would have been all over him. Twins are my perennial sleeper and will be again this year.


I'm hoping BVW is holding out for 1 or 2 of the better relievers. Herrera just went off the board at a very reasonable 2/18m. The Yankees are probably gonna get Ottavino for something similar, but maybe a couple mid relievers like Warren and Wilson are within their range for reasonable 1-2 year deals?

Around the fringes is where tendering TDA and dealing Plawecki seems questionable in the sense that with the money being = I'd rather have Plawecki and Parker than DL'arnaud. Seems obvious which of those options minimizes "ifs" and creates more overall depth for the $.
RE: That's all true Phi  
PhiPsi125 : 1/8/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14253722 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.


But this is where the fault lies. That 2015 team wasn't some juggernaut. It was a middling team that got historically hot after the acquisition of Cespedes and rode their pitching through the postseason. It also helped that the better team (Nationals) oddly imploded that year. Sun, moon and stars. THAT was the time to reinforce the team. But they went in the opposite direction.

You want to emulate the small market winning teams like KC? Then why send the prototypical "KC" type of player packing (Murphy). You want to blame injuries...fine. But who keeps bringing back these injury-prone players and backing them up with an old, ineffective bench? Why take one of your bright spots from last season (McNeil) and relegate him to the bench (IN DECEMBER) for next season in favor of Frasier?

I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I'm not asking to "buy" a world series championship each year. What I'd like is the OPPORTUNITY to get to the WS each year. You don't need to have a $200 million payroll to reach the playoffs consistently. I'm not asking to sign Machado or Harper (maybe I am) but to not even meet with them? When you have holes in these exact areas? But spending $20 mil a year on PED-user Cano for ages 36-41 is a sound decision? Come on.

The games we have to play around payroll for a NY team that charges a fortune to attend games is lunacy. Fans are lied to. LOL, fans are flat out BLAMED for the payroll. It's exhausting.
I agree again Phi  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 11:07 am : link
my point though with 2015 was and always has been that the Mets had a good enough core to contend for longer without spending a ton.

they should have done then what I want them to do now. Accentuate the strengths. Don't try and build a bullet proof team with all-stars at every spot, but make your strength better.

Sign a legit MLB starting pitcher. Or two. The top 3 is great or has the potential to be great, make the bottom two at least good.

Fix the bullpen, which they're on the way to doing.

Fix the defense.

I believe the Mets path to winning is with pitching and defense and it's not far-fetched. the Giants won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter, and on any of those 3 WS wins I believe only even had two players OPS over .800.

and they had deep but not super lights out bullpens.

Starting pitching, bullpen, and defense.

That's what the Mets should have done in 2015 and should do now.

I cited it before, who are the juggernauts?

The Astros? They're not done being contenders, but the Mets have been to the same # of WS as the Astros juggernaut. Of course they won it, so it's a success, but it's not like some unstoppable machine.

The Cubs? on the downward trend IMO.

it was the teams I named before.
Looks  
DanMetroMan : 1/8/2019 12:29 pm : link
like the Mets will "pocket" about 8.5 million this year per the Wright settlement. Whether they spend that...
RE: RE: That's all true Phi  
Eric on Li : 1/8/2019 12:31 pm : link
In comment 14253927 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253722 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.




But this is where the fault lies. That 2015 team wasn't some juggernaut. It was a middling team that got historically hot after the acquisition of Cespedes and rode their pitching through the postseason. It also helped that the better team (Nationals) oddly imploded that year. Sun, moon and stars. THAT was the time to reinforce the team. But they went in the opposite direction.

You want to emulate the small market winning teams like KC? Then why send the prototypical "KC" type of player packing (Murphy). You want to blame injuries...fine. But who keeps bringing back these injury-prone players and backing them up with an old, ineffective bench? Why take one of your bright spots from last season (McNeil) and relegate him to the bench (IN DECEMBER) for next season in favor of Frasier?

I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I'm not asking to "buy" a world series championship each year. What I'd like is the OPPORTUNITY to get to the WS each year. You don't need to have a $200 million payroll to reach the playoffs consistently. I'm not asking to sign Machado or Harper (maybe I am) but to not even meet with them? When you have holes in these exact areas? But spending $20 mil a year on PED-user Cano for ages 36-41 is a sound decision? Come on.

The games we have to play around payroll for a NY team that charges a fortune to attend games is lunacy. Fans are lied to. LOL, fans are flat out BLAMED for the payroll. It's exhausting.


Preach. The most exhausting part is the wilpon apologists who act like this some amazing strategy.
It’s just rinse and repeat with this sorry  
bhill410 : 1/8/2019 12:34 pm : link
Organization. Sweet we finally started to repair the farm and we immediately trade of a bulbous of long term assets to teams that have much starter analytic departments than us. I will never pull an arc but god damn I see the appeal.
I'll  
DanMetroMan : 1/8/2019 12:41 pm : link
quietly root for the Twins and some other mediocre teams. Won't switch teams but Rays, Twins... non-rivals.
I don't care if the farm system is  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 12:42 pm : link
poorly ranked if the major league team is a contender.

I'd sacrifice farm system ranking/talent for major league success in a heartbeat.

So often the top-ranked farm systems produce busts or the teams trade the prospects, or they just never translate to a successful major league team.

but 2017 - 2018 was the worst. the Mets picked #6 in the 2018 draft and had the 27th or whatever it was ranked farm. Yes they made strides to improve the farm, but having little talent in the minors and being awful in the majors is a toxic mix.

And the Mets cashed in a lot of those "chips" that had improved the farm system ranking and are likely back of the 20's again.

I think the Mets can work their way through this (at the major league level) but if they will remains to be seen.
every move they make is impacted by self imposed salary cap  
Eric on Li : 1/8/2019 12:44 pm : link
I'm excited to see Diaz pitch, but they basically got him for 1 reason - to fit an extra reliever into their budget this year since he currently costs the league minimum.

In total the 4 years of Diaz will probably end up costing around $30m (3 arb years will pay him well).

They could have signed Herrera or Robertson for comparable or less than that same total sum of $ for 1 year less, and kept Kelenic + Dunn.

To avoid an $8m-$10m "cap hit" this year they gave up 2 of their top 6 prospects.

If Diaz ends up being Mariano Rivera or Kimbrel it's worth it, but otherwise they gave up at least 1 of their blue chippers for something that could be replaced on the open market pretty easily by spending the exact same total amount of money.
Jon Jay signs for $4m with white sox  
Eric on Li : 1/8/2019 3:13 pm : link
if we didn't get Broxton he would have been a nice depth piece. Could probably even make the case he'd be a better option. I like the broxton deal though personally. 20/20 upside with great D in CF is worth rolling the dice.
.  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 4:56 pm : link
If you zoom in close to those laptops you see the images of Bryce Harper and Manny Machado's heads with x's through them.

Quote:

Brodie Van Wagenen
‏Verified account @GMBVW
4m4 minutes ago

Here’s a behind-the-scenes look at a player development meeting. Our staff is preparing and working hard as #SpringTraining approaches.


RE: RE: That's all true Phi  
speedywheels : 1/8/2019 5:12 pm : link
In comment 14253927 PhiPsi125 said:
Quote:

I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers.


At this point, I AM asking them to spend like those teams; they are a fucking NY based team, it's time they started acting like it! The recent trades are example #642 of small market mindedness; instead of ponying up cash to take on contracts and holding on to prospects, they make the other teams pay part of the acquired contract and give up good prospects.

You are right, it IS exhausting.

I hate the way this team operates. Not enough to pull an arc. But close.
Someone photoshop  
spike : 1/8/2019 5:12 pm : link
Space invaders in there
RE: .  
speedywheels : 1/8/2019 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14254536 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
If you zoom in close to those laptops you see the images of Bryce Harper and Manny Machado's heads with x's through them.




HAHA!
According to Heyman  
ZGiants98 : 1/8/2019 9:49 pm : link
Mets interested in Brian Dozier.

I really dont understand this. Why are we continually linked to Cabrera, Moustakas, and now Dozier types AFTER we acquired Cano? Doesnt make sense. We already have three guys likely competing for 3B.
Davidoff's math on the savings came out same as mine - ~$20m saved  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2019 9:44 am : link
vs. the payroll number the mets are currently at thanks to insurance money. Below is the TLDR, but the article itself is the most thorough I've seen to date. The only thing he misses is the possible 2.5m of Wright's contract that was already going to be differed, but I think the overall number is probably right because his insurance estimates are conservative.

Quote:
Conclusion
The agreement with Wright obviously gives the Mets — whose current payroll is projected to be about $150 million — additional wiggle room in 2019. Based on the figures discussed above, let’s call it $5 million in salary savings (the $6 million total minus $1 million due to Thursday’s early payment).

With the Wright-related insurance settlement, we must spitball for now (and perhaps forever). Let’s propose, based on Wilpon’s words in conjunction with the precedents set by previous such deals, that they’ll get $9 million this year and $3 million next year. Throw in the Cespedes guesstimate of $7 million.

That all would give the Mets a de facto bump of as much as $21 million for 2019.

How David Wright’s restructured deal opens up millions for Mets - ( New Window )
Most  
DanMetroMan : 1/9/2019 9:49 am : link
estimates have the Mets 2019 effective payroll ie players who are going to actually play WELL below last season... so much for Brodie convincing the Wilpons to spend or... the Harper meeting lolz
RE: Most  
Mike in NY : 1/9/2019 9:54 am : link
In comment 14255163 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
estimates have the Mets 2019 effective payroll ie players who are going to actually play WELL below last season... so much for Brodie convincing the Wilpons to spend or... the Harper meeting lolz


What I want to see is how we draft in June. If we had a lower payroll because we had a bunch of elite prospects like Atlanta has or Tampa did in the past, I would have less of an issue with the payroll. The problem is we overdraft players whose upside are bench players or back of the rotation starters and then act like we are surprised when we don't have anything. If I do not see any change this year (after dumping Kelenic) that is going to worry me.
RE: RE: Most  
GF1080 : 1/9/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14255171 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14255163 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


estimates have the Mets 2019 effective payroll ie players who are going to actually play WELL below last season... so much for Brodie convincing the Wilpons to spend or... the Harper meeting lolz



What I want to see is how we draft in June. If we had a lower payroll because we had a bunch of elite prospects like Atlanta has or Tampa did in the past, I would have less of an issue with the payroll. The problem is we overdraft players whose upside are bench players or back of the rotation starters and then act like we are surprised when we don't have anything. If I do not see any change this year (after dumping Kelenic) that is going to worry me.


We already know our draft budget for the Summer and I'll guarantee right now we don't go over to pay any sort of penalty. The Wilpons are pocketing more money yet again. I just don't understand why BVW would take this job and give up millions more just to be a lackey to the Wilpons unless he was lied to and now just has the hubris to prove he can still build a winner with such constraints. I can see him out in 3 years once that Cano contract goes belly up.
Jeff P  
DanMetroMan : 1/9/2019 10:00 am : link
says the Mets are one of the few teams that value NCAA numbers over projectability and you can see the results in how crappy their non Conforto college bat picks have been.
what's astounding about the wilpons brazenness is revenue is up again  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2019 10:26 am : link
so it shouldn't even be that big of a deal for the payroll to rise slightly - it should be 100% expected since the overall league revenues were a record high last year.

And yet, here we are. In a position where any of us would consider it lucky if they were to simple spend to the level of last year.

Hopefully they are just trying to set expectations low. I was looking at the relief market yesterday and there really are A TON of good options left that will probably only require a 1 year deals around what Parker got. Brach, Shawn Kelley, Ollie Perez, Justin Wilson, Madson, Boxberger, Sipp. Plus all the guys we've mentioned in a slightly higher tier like Adam Warren & Cody Allen. Just give me 1 righty and 1 lefty off that list and a veteran backup catcher (don't care who or how much $). That should not be too much to ask of a team "going for it" and looking to "create depth" and "minimize ifs".
They should go after Ottavino  
Metnut : 1/9/2019 10:29 am : link
they have more than enough room in the payroll to add him. Let's go after the best guy available for once.
RE: They should go after Ottavino  
JayBinQueens : 1/9/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14255219 Metnut said:
Quote:
they have more than enough room in the payroll to add him. Let's go after the best guy available for once.

I'm thinking he doesn't want to just be another arm in a pen.

If he goes to the Yanks, my point will obviously be wrong
According to the Post  
figgy2989 : 1/9/2019 12:28 pm : link
Wright's restructure saves the Mets $6M in 2019.
I think Ottavino wants a 3rd year guaranteed  
Eric on Li : 1/9/2019 1:02 pm : link
his problem is that Miller, Herrera, Robertson, and Soria didn't get that and while he has a case that he had a better year than they did I'm not so sure that he does that he's a better bet going forward. This is probably the only chance he will ever have to get a big contract and unlike those guys he hasn't already made $60-80m. His career earnings to this point are $13m. He is going to highest bidder.
RE: RE: Most  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2019 1:24 pm : link
In comment 14255171 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14255163 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


estimates have the Mets 2019 effective payroll ie players who are going to actually play WELL below last season... so much for Brodie convincing the Wilpons to spend or... the Harper meeting lolz



What I want to see is how we draft in June. If we had a lower payroll because we had a bunch of elite prospects like Atlanta has or Tampa did in the past, I would have less of an issue with the payroll. The problem is we overdraft players whose upside are bench players or back of the rotation starters and then act like we are surprised when we don't have anything. If I do not see any change this year (after dumping Kelenic) that is going to worry me.

It wasn't just drafting for the Braves and Rays as they both acquired several top prospects by trading their good MLB players who's contracts were close to expiring.
you have to think the Mets  
CMicks3110 : 1/9/2019 10:52 pm : link
are planning on paying big sums to deGrom. Frankly, I'd also try to sign Wheeler long term too. If that's what they are holding back for, I'm ok with it.
I really don't understand how anyone can  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 1:12 am : link
Look at the Mets roster and not be excited for 2019. We've dealt with some crushing injuries over the last two years so I get being somewhat jaded (Cespedes still wont be back for half a season) but this team is relatively young and bursting with talent. We still have one of the best rotations in baseball and our top 4 are 30 years old and younger. Our pen just got a dramatic facelift and our hot shot new closer is 24 years old. Our entire lineup is young and filled with talent even if its not full realized yet (Rosario) and there's still more on the way (Alonso).

Fans can be upset at trading away a few prospects I guess but this is a fun ML roster and I still don't think we are done. We are going to add another player or two. I think the worst part of the team is there is still some variable to the lineup not knowing how much guys like Davis, Alonso, Rosario, and even McNeil are going to provide in 2019 but give me that problem over what we've seen in the past 10 times out of 10.
Z to be fair do you really not get why people  
bhill410 : 1/10/2019 6:28 am : link
Are jaded? Or are you simply playing devils advocate? At the end of the year you said they needed to go all in on a power bat, if you think that’s cano fine but I think a lot of us have reservations about a 36 PED user being that bat. Furthermore while they added an elite closer they haven’t really done anything else. Based on swarzaks 2017 stats I could imagine a young Zgiants making the argument that familia swarzak were not all that dissimilar bullpen wise going into last season when we arguably had more depth on paper back there.

Look I get there is reason to be positive, but it’s tough to not look at the scope of what the Mets are doing without looking at the money the Nats have spent/ trying to spend and the money the Phillies are trying to spend. Especially considering how much more money the Mets make then at least the nationals. We have the ability REALLY upgrade lineup or ability to really upgrade bullpen and rotation depth. We seem to instead be trading prospects for mediocre depth so that we can actually have a lower payroll than last year.
Shecky  
CMicks3110 : 1/10/2019 6:49 am : link
If we’re saving to pay DeGrom/Wheeler, is that ok with you
RE: Shecky  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 7:44 am : link
In comment 14256362 CMicks3110 said:
Quote:
If we’re saving to pay DeGrom/Wheeler, is that ok with you

Personally? I’d lockup Thor ASAP.
Fair enough  
CMicks3110 : 1/10/2019 7:49 am : link
my major point though is, if the Mets are unwilling to spend in free agency, given their limited current payroll, and the salary relief they are getting from Wright and Cespedes. It would be criminal not to lock up the core of the team, the pitching. Because that window for success will close quickly if you don't have deGrom/Thor/Wheeler. If new contracts are not made, then I think fans have every right to revolt. Brodie talked about a 5 year window right now, and that would be impossible without the pitching, especially with the next round of pitching prospects a few years away, and probably not nearly as talented as the trio we have now. Nationals are spending a ton for Strasburg, Scherzer, and Corbin, our group is arguably better and we have a chance to get them at a cheaper price.
RE: Z to be fair do you really not get why people  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14256355 bhill410 said:
Quote:
Are jaded? Or are you simply playing devils advocate? At the end of the year you said they needed to go all in on a power bat, if you think that’s cano fine but I think a lot of us have reservations about a 36 PED user being that bat. Furthermore while they added an elite closer they haven’t really done anything else. Based on swarzaks 2017 stats I could imagine a young Zgiants making the argument that familia swarzak were not all that dissimilar bullpen wise going into last season when we arguably had more depth on paper back there.

Look I get there is reason to be positive, but it’s tough to not look at the scope of what the Mets are doing without looking at the money the Nats have spent/ trying to spend and the money the Phillies are trying to spend. Especially considering how much more money the Mets make then at least the nationals. We have the ability REALLY upgrade lineup or ability to really upgrade bullpen and rotation depth. We seem to instead be trading prospects for mediocre depth so that we can actually have a lower payroll than last year.


I mean I flat out said those exact words, so yeah. And I’ll fully admit I liked our pen last year but we quickly lost Swarzak and Ramos as soon as the season started and Lugo was forced to move to the rotation when Thor went down. Heck I liked the last two seasons entire rosters (2017 more than 2018) but injuries destroyed us. All that said we’ve never had a backend like Lugo, Familia, Diaz. I wanted offense big time this offseason but Cano and Ramos aren’t nobodys. They should dramatically help the lineup. I mean you’re talking about a couple all stars playing at a high level as recently as last year. Outside of Harper/Machado who were we bringing in better than them? Somebody like Pollock by himself wasn’t upgrading our offense that much.

My larger point is that the overall team is a fun team. All three levels has young talent making this an exciting team to root for. I just don’t see how anyone could not be looking forward to this season. I still think we add another pen arm or two and we might be waiting for the Pollock/MGone market to fall.
I’ll play devils advocate for you  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 8:34 am : link
Everyone complained about the BP. Went out and got one of the games best closers. And our old closer to set him up.
Everyone complained about C. Went after the best in the game,then signed one of the best offensive catchers in the game
Everyone complained we needed O. See above, and went out and acquired Cano, one of the better 2B in the game.
Everyone complained the bench sucks went out and acquired two MLB ready bats for the bench, and pushed McNeil to the bench.
Everyone complained the team never makes trades for High upside guys, the next Dickey. Went out and got Broxton and Davis.
Everyone complained we had zero depth in AAA to be ready for injuries, they’re signing vets and reclamation projects to provide said depth.

All at the cost of Dunn, whomost here viewed as a BP arm and Kelenic.
Is it great? Is it perfect? Did they really sell out the future to win today? Would I have done things differently, or you? I could just as easily post a negative view as I did this positive view - but there is already enough negativity and skepticism to go around.
RE: I’ll play devils advocate for you  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14256426 Shecky said:
Quote:
Everyone complained about the BP. Went out and got one of the games best closers. And our old closer to set him up.
Everyone complained about C. Went after the best in the game,then signed one of the best offensive catchers in the game
Everyone complained we needed O. See above, and went out and acquired Cano, one of the better 2B in the game.
Everyone complained the bench sucks went out and acquired two MLB ready bats for the bench, and pushed McNeil to the bench.
Everyone complained the team never makes trades for High upside guys, the next Dickey. Went out and got Broxton and Davis.
Everyone complained we had zero depth in AAA to be ready for injuries, they’re signing vets and reclamation projects to provide said depth.

All at the cost of Dunn, whomost here viewed as a BP arm and Kelenic.
Is it great? Is it perfect? Did they really sell out the future to win today? Would I have done things differently, or you? I could just as easily post a negative view as I did this positive view - but there is already enough negativity and skepticism to go around.


A few counterpoints to your list:
1. At this moment they have cut spending in the BP by ~20m this year. Familia is Familia, and Diaz is a big upgrade, so while they have improved quality they have not improved the depth. It might even have gotten worse considering last year they went into the season with 4 expected late game options + Lugo/Gman. Right now they have 2. Injuries and underperformance destroyed last year's deeper pen in less than 1 month.

2. To add to your list, "everyone complained that their farm system sucks and is thin" and they thinned it out even more. And with each day it becomes more apparent they did so mainly to avoid spending money.

3. BY FAR, everyone's biggest complain the past decade has been that the Mets don't spend enough money. I give BVW for making progress in almost all the areas you mentioned (C, defense, closer, lineup) - but it's hard to not be frustrated with the Wilpons constantly misleading the fanbase about "going for it". Especially while the teams around us in the division who finished ahead of us last year - Nats and Phillies in particular - are all in on the biggest FA class in a decade. Meanwhile here we can't even offer up $9-10m/year for someone like Herrera or Ottavino or Miller or Robertson who would significantly improve the depth in the BP.
Eric  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 10:40 am : link
You touched my sore spot - that spending,only= talent.
BP dumped $25mm in Swarz, Ramos and Blevins. Added Diaz. We’re spending less, thus it’s worse!?!?!

Seemed people were starting to talk about he farm improving and getting deeper. Traded two top tier guys, one most fans didn’t care for to begin with. They are about to graduate Alonso, with Gimenez behind him. Kay and Peterson behind them. The 500 young relievers they traded for the last couple years. The farms still look good, just not as heavyid argue the farm today is better than it was two years ago,but not as good as it was three months ago.

Again with the money = talent argument, so I won’t go there. Go out and get the best talent period. The best fits for the team let the money guys figure out the money so it doesn’t handicap you down the road.

Personally, I’d sign the core, starting with Thor. More certainty for next 3-5 years they play up to their contract and they are even more valuable trade chips. They play under their contract, it’s offset by the other good contracts and you’re a big market, and that’s when you flex your big market muscle.

All that said, yes, Machado and Harper should be Mets!
Shecky  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 10:47 am : link
all due respect but that's not really all that fair in regard to the prospects.

Kelenic, Dunn, Adolph, Santana, Hill were all top 20 prospects in the system. Adolph is ranked #30 in a superior Astros system by MLBpipeline and Santana #22. Manea also was a prospect, closer to the 30-40 range but yeah trading 5 top 20 names and an additional guy is pretty major when the system was closer to average than anything special. Now they did get back Lockett and Haggerty but every team in baseball takes Kelenic, Dunn, Adolph and Santana over the 2 guys the Mets got back. That doesn't even include Valerio or Wahl. They gave up significant young depth/talent.

That Plawecki return was really, really strange other than backfilling AAA... which is "okay" except they are rolling the dice on TDA who has been BAD and injured and coming off a major surgery.
shecky is the BP deeper right now than it was last year?  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 10:52 am : link
im not saying money = talent, but it does often = depth. I didn't love Ramos or Swarzak last year so I have no issue agreeing that the quality is dramatically better with Diaz. But depth is having bodies in case of injury. It's why the Yankees are still going after Ottavino even though they have Chapman, Betances, and Britton.

This offseason isn't over and there are a TON of relievers still out there. I think they need to sign at least 2 more of them and I don't think they are dumb enough to not do that considering it will probably only take 1 year deals for many of them. It's just discouraging that they publicly acknowledged not having the budget to have been in on the tier of Miller, Robertson, Herrera, and now Ottavino. Even if both Diaz and Familia stay healthy they are probably going to end up giving up an SWR or Newton for a 3rd guy like the ones mentioned when they could have done it now for nothing.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 10:55 am : link
legitimately have the utmost respect for Shecky. But if you told me when the off-season began that they gave up

Kelenic, Dunn, Santana, Adolph, Wahl, Valerio and this was our current roster I would be very disappointed. Still time to make additions for sure but right now on paper this looks like a low 80's in roster with a bottom 5 farm system.
I don’t deny they traded depth  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 10:55 am : link
Can’t deny that. My point was, they didn’t trade top guys compared to what they got back in return. You know my thoughts on Kelenic, as well as Hill, so I won’t go there.

But they traded depth. They traded lower level guys. What was the strength of the farm though? And the weakness? They traded lower level guys for upper level guys. Not arguing the specific names. But big picture, can’t argue they traded away strength of farm to improve the weakness of. Same with the ML contracts they’re giving out.

Bruxton and Davis are the you g bench, replacement guys if there is an injury. Longer term replacements, or possibly at least. Those did NOT exist above A ball

Warning. I’m bored today lol
Shecky  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 11:00 am : link
no offense but Broxton is 29 this season. So if he's young...
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 11:01 am : link
advocated going after Broxton so I don't want to shit on him but lets be frank here if he repeats what he's done the past 2 seasons he's not even a guy we want for all of 2019 let alone a "long term" bench piece. It could happen but last 2 seasons .213/.296/.419. Nobody wants THAT for multiple seasons.
Eric  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 11:03 am : link
No, I don’t think they are done in the pen. But yeah, I consider Diaz Familia way better than Familia Swarz. Still have Lugo and Ges, so no difference there. Blevins, I’m on record for bring him back cheap. Ramos, yeah I think they’ll find a few comparable arms to Ramos by the time it’s all said and done. Once again, a ton of the young arms, not counting on them, but one or two takes a baby step forward and thinks look quite differently quickly. Difference is they don’t count on that like they did last year...

Dan, any comment that doesn’t start with “Shecky, you know I love you but” always worry me, but I’ll accept the offshoots of that lol. Good point about the minors. But take out the names. If I told you they’d trade two top five guys. And five ten to twenty guys. And we’d solidify the C, BP, bench, and a starting 2b - no, I don’t think anyone would be excited about that. BUT, that’s kind of the floor of what they got in return, compared to the ceiling of what the prospects could become...
Still  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 11:06 am : link
can't believe Duquette thought the Mets could land Will Smith for Plawecki. On what planet?
Dozier  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 11:07 am : link
a Nat, 1 year 9. Love that move at that commitment.
RE: I  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14256688 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
advocated going after Broxton so I don't want to shit on him but lets be frank here if he repeats what he's done the past 2 seasons he's not even a guy we want for all of 2019 let alone a "long term" bench piece. It could happen but last 2 seasons .213/.296/.419. Nobody wants THAT for multiple seasons.


Lol, young is relative, and to relative to me he’s a baby lol. “Young” is in reference to 3-5 years. Bruxton has upside if he can start to hit the ball, which no I do not think the Mets or Davis will magically unlock. But he’s a star if it happens. A lotto ticket. At worst, he is a very good bench, short term starter to replace an injured guy. Seriously, the team has been lacking that for a looooong time. Same with Davis.

Statistically. The odds of a prospect ever making it as a borderline starter for 3+ years are very very low. Especially a low A prospect...
RE: Dozier  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14256700 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
a Nat, 1 year 9. Love that move at that commitment.

Lol, does that answer the magically question everyoneasked the other day “why would the Mets be interested in him??”

Think you’ll see some more of these types of deals as guys realize one year deals are the way to go. Teams DO NOT want to hand out long term eras anymore. Would LOVE lemahieu, and Lowrie still bouncing around...
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 11:12 am : link
really loved the Brewers/Grandal deal. Yes, he cost them a pick. Big deal. 96 win team adding a 3-4 win player.
I'd be careful counting on Lugo  
Metnut : 1/10/2019 11:16 am : link
to be a bullpen piece when the rotation still has Matz and Vargas in it.

Vargas had a FIP over 5 last year, isn't exactly a pillar of health, and will be 36 next year. Matz looks like he can be a solid #4 starter but counting on a healthy season from him would defy past experience.

Maybe one or both of those guys will hit the "high" end of their projection range and be solid back-enders who throw 175 innings, but what's the backup plan? It's more likely than not (just given the nature of pitchers in general, Thor and Wheeler's background in particular put aside) that at least one of the big 3 will miss time at some point.

What's the plan when something goes wrong? If you're counting on Lugo in the pen, then who is the next man up if first half 2/3 of the season Vargas shows up or Matz has some random forearm issue?

The offseason isn't over yet, so I hope they really fortify the pitching staff with a quality addition or two given how low the payroll currently is. Adding a premium bullpen piece would allow us to truly deploy Lugo as a flex weapon. Adding a 2 WAR+ starter would let Vargas be the 6th starter/longman that he's more suited to being at this point in his career and ensure that we don't have to put trash like Oswalt or whoever on the mount when the inevitable injury happens.
RE: I  
Metnut : 1/10/2019 11:18 am : link
In comment 14256718 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really loved the Brewers/Grandal deal. Yes, he cost them a pick. Big deal. 96 win team adding a 3-4 win player.


Great deal for them.

I liked Ramos for us because I thought we'd still be making major additions given how cheap Ramos was. I'm still waiting.
Brewers  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 11:23 am : link
may snipe Marwin Gonzalez now.
RE: I  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 11:32 am : link
In comment 14256718 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
really loved the Brewers/Grandal deal. Yes, he cost them a pick. Big deal. 96 win team adding a 3-4 win player.


Lol, the kick in the ass to the Dodgers are that the Brewers are a “poor” team lol
Since I didn’t attract the negativity I expected  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 11:43 am : link
C HUGEi provement. Can expect 3-4 wins here
1B. Love Alonso’s power. 250 35 HR 3-4 winbopper for $500k. He is no A Gon, but...
2B. Great leadership for the young Latin kids, professional hitter. 3-4 wins again
SS a ton of growth from Rosario here. 4 wins
3B only position I’d worry about, but great depth most teams don’t have. After Frazier you’ve got McNeiland Davis to battle it out. Could be anywhere from 1-4 wins, biggest question mark. A certain FA would go a long way to solving that...
RF Nimmo. Hard to expect him to match last year. But since this is an optimistic projection, why not ask a young kid to grow further in his second full season? 4 wins+
LF Conforto, finallysettles in healthy and experienced. Lock him up BEFORE the big season. 4 wins
CF Legares/Broxton won’t hit much, but won’t need to. 2 wins from defense till Ces comes back and Nimmo/Conforto take over. Another 3 wins from a motivated Ces when he comes back...

SP. sure JdG and Wheeler can’t be expected to repeat. But Thor will be the best pitcher in baseball by year end. LOCK HIM UP. I even expect Matz to have a pretty good year and would lock him up cheap for three years and options. TRADE FOR BAUER!!!! Personally I’d putLugo back in the rotation as a savvy starter.

BP. Diaz is shutdown and Familia is pretty freakin top notch as a setup man. I don’t think they’re done here either, so incomplete grade

Bench - no comparison to years past. McNeil or Frazier. Davis and Broxton. TdA. Compared to Flores and a black hole of years past. Got some power on the bench. Got some speed. Got some guys who can start if necessary for a coup,e of weeks. Some potential upside. This here is the biggest difference in the 19 team vs previous couple of years.
We’ve added 11 wins in fWAR  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 12:04 pm : link
From our acquisitions and lost nada from a team that was riddled with injuries last year. I got us as a wild card contender now with a lot less question marks than years passed and I don’t think we are done.
Excerpt from one of my favorite writers Eno Sarris  
Metnut : 1/10/2019 12:10 pm : link
on his over/under picks for the year. He likes the over on the Mets. He also mentions the rotation depth issue that I just posted about an hour ago... smart guy!

"Mets Over 83.5
Talking about money with the Mets is always difficult. They spent $151 million last year on payroll, and they just added Hector Santiago on a deal that would push this year’s payroll to $151 million should he make the roster. They might be done spending.

The good news, however, is that they just negotiated a deal that sends David Wright to the front office and may save them — along with the Yoenis Céspedes insurance money — as much as $20 million in 2019, according to Ken Davidoff. Will they spend it now or on a mid-season acquisition? Who knows, but at least they aren’t tapped out before the season starts. (In theory, anyway).

The Mets have a good rotation! But it sounds kind of meh to say they have a top ten rotation. Obviously, the issue is health, especially behind their ace. Noah Syndergaard, Steven Matz, and Zack Wheeler have all had their share of injuries in the past few years.

But health is a major source of variance when it comes to team projections. Should those three put in 170 innings each, the team projections change. Because on quality alone, the Mets are right there with the best rotations in baseball. Check out how they look when it comes to projected strikeouts minus walks next year, among starters with at least 20 starts.

Team Top 60 K-BB Starters
Dodgers 5
Indians 5
Red Sox 5
Astros 4
Mets 4
Yankeees 4
That’s a good group to be in.

Where they don’t have depth in the rotation right now — sorries to screwball slinger Santiago — they do have depth on the infield. Between J.D. Davis’ power upside, Jeff McNeil’s extreme contact abilities, Amed Rosario’s up and down plate approach, and Peter Alonso’s tree trunk arms, the Mets have four young options that could be better than their projections.

Should those players improve, and the rotation show good health, the Mets could easily leave their projection in the dust. And their projection already says they’re a decent bet to be better than the Vegas win line."
the biggest issue right now is proven depth - emphasis on 'proven'  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 1:09 pm : link
they've acquired some depth guys, presumably with upside, but they aren't proven (with the exception of Broxton). This is the 1 year deal phase of the offseason, they need:

2 arms in the BP (1 lefty and 1 with late inning experience)
1 more catcher for ST in the event Nido still can't hit and tda still can't stay healthy (both more likely than not)
1 or more SP options in the event Vargas still sucks and Lugo needs to stay in the pen
1 backup SS option in the event Guillorme needs to go back to AAA

Not all of those guys need guaranteed MLB contracts, but it wouldn't be hard to fill every one of those spots with a decent veteran at a reasonable amount of money. Blake Parker got just $2.5m. Jon Jay got $4m. That's potentially 2-3 wins right there. Spending another $15m on 3-4 depth guys could be the difference between 85 wins and 90.

Also I'd bring back Blevins on a ST invite. Yes he got tagged last year, but he's still only 35 years old and his velocity didn't drop. In 2017 he was as dominant against lefties as any reliever in baseball. Held them under .200 and only gave up 1 xbh (a double) in 34 innings.
Roster management  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 1:39 pm : link
There is only one more spot open on the 40. So the maxguaranteed deals you can currently offer is one. Without risking a bullpen arm being waived.

On Opening Day there will be a spot from Ces opening on the 60. Soone spring training invite can make the roster without risk of losing a body from the 40.

Not saying there aren’t guys you would hesitate to lose. There’s 5 JAGS on the roster. But everyone throws a hissy fit when one is lost. Just keep in mind the 40.
Lugo is a 100% proven entity  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 1:45 pm : link
In the pen after last year if that’s where he’s used. He was fantastic there actually. Gsellman isn’t “special” but he’s about what most teams have for their 4th or 5th option also.

Let’s stop acting like we have Diaz/Familia and tumbleweeds. We’ll still add a loogy and maybe even another guy and then we also have a slew of talented upside options in Bashlor, D Smith, Hanhold, ect. We also have plenty of long man options...

Pens in great shape with another addition or two.
Cody Allen gives up on being a closer  
Shecky : 1/10/2019 2:00 pm : link
I’d do a cartwheel, and that’s not a pretty sight
Cheaper and more of a sure thang that’s Ottavino.
I’d feel pretty good with our SP followed by a trio of Familia, Diaz and Allen. I wouldn’t care who we used in the pen in the games we were losing 6-2 in the 7th...
Machado/Harper as a cherry on top ;)
Cody Allen  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 2:41 pm : link
And a lefty like Avilan and you’re done with the pen.
Solid move  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 2:47 pm : link
New York Mets

Verified account

@Mets
Following Following @Mets
More
We’ve signed LHP Luis Avilán to a minor league contract with an invite to major league #SpringTraining. #Mets
Gsellman  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 2:48 pm : link
is overrated at this point. He was brilliant in 2016, awful in 2017 and "okay" in 2018. He's likely "okay".
Wasn't  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 2:49 pm : link
aimed at anyone on here. I just meant in general. He's just a guy.
It's 50-50 Lugo ends up in the starting rotation  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 2:50 pm : link
1 injury or terrible ST from Vargas and it's pretty likely. Nobody is knocking him as a pitcher, it's a question of having PROVEN depth so he can either stay in the BP or move into the rotation if necessary.

And re: the 40 man there's plenty of room. Start with Gagnon and Flexen and keep on going through Rhame and Oswalt if you have to. Dom Smith has no role with the big club and should just be traded to not steal at bats from guys they seemingly like better like Mcneil & Davis. If you told me we could get a similar deal for Dom to what we gave up for Davis I'd probably be ok with that. Or ideally maybe he brings back 1 of the types of relievers we are talking about via trade.
Holy shit!  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 2:52 pm : link
Literally just said his name! Was even going to say we might be able to get him on a non guaranteed deal too.
With  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 2:53 pm : link
Santiago here no reason to carry Gagnon. Santiago/Dowdy/Lockett as options make Gagnon "very" expendable. As for the 40

Gagnon, Peterson, Rhame, Sewald, Flexen. They have room to operate if they chose to.
.  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 2:56 pm : link
Andy Martino

Verified account

@martinonyc
1h1 hour ago
More
A sourced estimate for what a deGrom extension would look like is five years, $130-145 million. Per sources, there will a will on both sides to get a deal done.
And yes... Gsellman’s not “special”  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 2:57 pm : link
But if anything over 1 WAR is considered very good (not counting closers) for relieves, I think you’ll see most teams have guys like Gsellman giving innings in the middle of a pen somewhere. Positive WAR, FIP in the 3s. Not a guy you want closing out games, obviously, but still some value there.
100% on board w/ Avilan but he did have a big drop in velocity last yr  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 2:57 pm : link
I suspect that's why he didn't get a full MLB deal. Keep inviting guys to ST and see what happens. Like I said, add Blevins to the mix and hope 1 of these guys has enough left in a specialist role.

I do think they need 1 more back end option though beyond the lefty - Allen would be great. Brach is interesting and from the area I believe. Warren isn't a back end guy but he's pitched well on winning teams.
RE: And yes... Gsellman’s not “special”  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:01 pm : link
In comment 14257099 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
But if anything over 1 WAR is considered very good (not counting closers) for relieves, I think you’ll see most teams have guys like Gsellman giving innings in the middle of a pen somewhere. Positive WAR, FIP in the 3s. Not a guy you want closing out games, obviously, but still some value there.


Huh? Gsellman posted .3 fWAR in 2018. Where are you getting "anything over 1 WAR"? He's posted .9 fWAR over his last 2 seasons combined and FIP "in the 3's?" uh? His FIP the last 2 seasons has been 4.89 and 3.95. Are you looking at the wrong pitcher?
Drew  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:04 pm : link
Smith and Daniel Zamora pitched 37 innings last year (combined) and put up a higher combined fWAR than Gsellman who threw 80 innings. Guess how many RP's posted a better FIP than Gsellman last year? 94 and fWAR? 95.


RE: 100% on board w/ Avilan but he did have a big drop in velocity last yr  
Metnut : 1/10/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14257101 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
I suspect that's why he didn't get a full MLB deal. Keep inviting guys to ST and see what happens. Like I said, add Blevins to the mix and hope 1 of these guys has enough left in a specialist role.

I do think they need 1 more back end option though beyond the lefty - Allen would be great. Brach is interesting and from the area I believe. Warren isn't a back end guy but he's pitched well on winning teams.


On board with bringing Blevins back too. Avilan is fine to have in the mix, but we gotta see if his stuff holds up in the spring. Would be nice to see how Blevins looks too.

Allen, Brach and Ottavino would all be nice additions. Please add one of them.
Sadly  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:11 pm : link
there is no sleeper internal option at AA/AAA. I guess Roseboom if you squint real hard but I don't see it at all. I wouldn't want to waste a Kay or Peterson like that.
First Broxton now...  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:13 pm : link

Post subject: Re: 2019PostPosted: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:49 am
User avatar
Online
Legend of NYFS

Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:57 pm
Posts: 83836
Location: New York, NY
Why has there been so little talk of Luis Avilan as a LOOGY option? Career .213/.289/.292 vs. lefties #Mets

Brodie you sly dog!
I don't know why they haven't just traded Dom Smith for someone  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 3:16 pm : link
there has to be a team willing to give up a decent reliever for him. Royals? Rays?
Rays  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:20 pm : link
reportedly really like Yandy (another guy I wanted the Mets to look at) so I'd be surprised if they gave up much for Dom. Yandy + Choi = no room at the inn. With McKay there too I don't think they would bother unless he were 100% dumped. Royals future at 1b is Pratto. He's at least 1 season away but O'Hearn was quietly awesome for them. Don't see either team as fits for Dom.
RE: RE: And yes... Gsellman’s not “special”  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 3:21 pm : link
In comment 14257114 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14257099 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


But if anything over 1 WAR is considered very good (not counting closers) for relieves, I think you’ll see most teams have guys like Gsellman giving innings in the middle of a pen somewhere. Positive WAR, FIP in the 3s. Not a guy you want closing out games, obviously, but still some value there.



Huh? Gsellman posted .3 fWAR in 2018. Where are you getting "anything over 1 WAR"? He's posted .9 fWAR over his last 2 seasons combined and FIP "in the 3's?" uh? His FIP the last 2 seasons has been 4.89 and 3.95. Are you looking at the wrong pitcher?


Not sure where you read me saying Gsellman had over a 1 win at all. I said if that’s the “bar” for excellent (mostly backend and setup options) most guys in the middle will fall in the .1-.9 range. You aren’t going to find a single pen in baseball or in all if history with 7 guys over 1. I was agreeing that he’s not special (I actually led with that) but every pen has “Gsellmans” in the middle somewhere. A guy that’s positive WAR, FIP under 4, etc.
I  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:22 pm : link
think the Rangers/Mets should link up in a Frazier/Dom to Texas deal.
RE: Rays  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 3:23 pm : link
In comment 14257161 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
reportedly really like Yandy (another guy I wanted the Mets to look at) so I'd be surprised if they gave up much for Dom. Yandy + Choi = no room at the inn. With McKay there too I don't think they would bother unless he were 100% dumped. Royals future at 1b is Pratto. He's at least 1 season away but O'Hearn was quietly awesome for them. Don't see either team as fits for Dom.


How about Texas? Not sure he'd bring back Minor by himself, but maybe consider Minor isn't cheap.
Sorry  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:23 pm : link
but the sentence was very confusing to me. Gsellman is filler and the numbers say as much. I merely stated he's a bit overrated because 2016 he looked like a 2-3 SP in limited run and now he could retire tomorrow and they would be fine.
Avilán is flat good against lefties  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 3:23 pm : link
And can atucally fair decently as a crossover guy as well. Can get a little wild at times but shocked we got him for so cheap/non roster invitee.
RE: I  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14257167 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
think the Rangers/Mets should link up in a Frazier/Dom to Texas deal.


Well that was a well timed post. Frazier actually helps save some money too. That would make sense all around, though I doubt they move Frazier and do think he's a positive value piece.
RE: Sorry  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14257169 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
but the sentence was very confusing to me. Gsellman is filler and the numbers say as much. I merely stated he's a bit overrated because 2016 he looked like a 2-3 SP in limited run and now he could retire tomorrow and they would be fine.


I agree with that. And my wording was confusing. Sorry.
RE: RE: Rays  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14257168 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14257161 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


reportedly really like Yandy (another guy I wanted the Mets to look at) so I'd be surprised if they gave up much for Dom. Yandy + Choi = no room at the inn. With McKay there too I don't think they would bother unless he were 100% dumped. Royals future at 1b is Pratto. He's at least 1 season away but O'Hearn was quietly awesome for them. Don't see either team as fits for Dom.



How about Texas? Not sure he'd bring back Minor by himself, but maybe consider Minor isn't cheap.


Texas has multiple "extra" pieces and needs a 3b. They have no clear answer at 1b either so I think these 2 teams line up nicely (and we know they have had conversations). Find it hard to believe the Mets are willing to pay Mike Minor what he has owed to him at this point. I think more likely some of there lesser depth pieces.
RE: Avilán is flat good against lefties  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14257170 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
And can atucally fair decently as a crossover guy as well. Can get a little wild at times but shocked we got him for so cheap/non roster invitee.


Look at his velocity numbers.
RE: I don't know why they haven't just traded Dom Smith for someone  
Metnut : 1/10/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14257154 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
there has to be a team willing to give up a decent reliever for him. Royals? Rays?


I think they are trying to trade him but you gotta find a taker. He had such an awful year in the PCL (playing mostly 1B) last year with another 300+ awful MLB ABs to boot (2017-2018) that I can't imagine getting an MLB contributer for him.

IMO, rather than sell him at his absolute worst, I'd send him to Syracuse and see if he can get his career on track. He's still young enough that it's not completely hopeless. If he ends up raking he can be Alonso insurance or then be traded in-season for a reliever.

Oddly enough, the kid hit the ball hard without enough true power at the lower minor levels but then sort of reversed and now seems to have legit power but completely awful contact ability. Maybe there's an adjustment or two that he can make to have some success.
There  
DanMetroMan : 1/10/2019 3:27 pm : link
was an article last year that basically said Dom Smith's approach was THE WORST in baseball in 2018. That being said, sticking him in Syracuse wouldn't be the end of the world.
Atlanta in on Pollock...  
Metnut : 1/10/2019 3:28 pm : link
would be a nightmare lineup if they can add him.
RE: RE: Avilán is flat good against lefties  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 3:46 pm : link
In comment 14257177 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14257170 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


And can atucally fair decently as a crossover guy as well. Can get a little wild at times but shocked we got him for so cheap/non roster invitee.



Look at his velocity numbers.


Yeah not sure what the issue is there? Was he nursing something? Still under 30 and Loogys generally don’t need to throw that hard. Love the pickup. No risk.
no idea could be anything  
Eric on Li : 1/10/2019 3:54 pm : link
Blevins had no velocity issues, just had a crap year. Relievers are just volatile, that's why I think it's usually worth paying for 1 more premium reliever than you think you need. The 2016's where the 2 key guys pitch great and stay healthy are less common than the 2017/2018's where there's an injury or two.
Allen had a run of being damn good for 5 years straight  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 3:59 pm : link
No idea what happened last year but at only 30, I’d bet on him bouncing back reuniting with Mickey.
Wouldn’t be surprised if  
ZGiants98 : 1/10/2019 5:34 pm : link
Avilan has a handshake deal to make the team but they needed the roster spot until then.
Back to the Corner