David Wright will assume a new role with the club as Special Advisor to #Mets COO Jeff Wilpon and Brodie Van Wagenen. In a related move, the organization and David mutually agreed to his release from the current roster.
This does not mean the Mets get the remaining $27M on Wright's contract back. It means they've reached a settlement with the insurance company on it and should have more payroll certainty w/r/t Wright, and he's now off the 40-man roster.
4:40 PM - 7 Jan 2019
Mike Puma
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Indications are the Mets will wait out the market and see if anything makes sense for bullpen. Unclear how much Brodie Van Wagenen has left to spend this offseason, but it isnt a lot.
Believe they were around $150m prior to settling with Wright. Not to mention the expectation of recouping close to half of Cespedes' $29m. So if we extremely conservatively call that $20m savings, they are around $130m in payroll right now.
Or right around where the KC Royals #20 ranked opening day payroll was last year ($129.92m).
Where did you see they were getting half of Cespedes's amount back?
I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.
Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
RE: Where did you see they were getting half of Cespedes's amount back?
I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.
Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
I think the key word is settlement when it comes to David Wright. So while the public may not know the parameters, the Mets certainly know. Therefore there really shouldnt be any excuses for not adding payroll at this time. Maybe they will only get half Wrights money this year. But that amount of money is not peanuts.
Jeff Wilpon said the Ces insurance is a little less than Wright's 75%
so even if it's just 50% and in the best case Cespedes comes back at the deadline I think that means they would be getting a minimum of 25% of his total salary reimbursed (which would be $7.25m).
Wright's insurance would have covered $11.25m. I doubt the Mets took too many pennies less than that to get to upfront payment, but who knows.
We will never know the exact details of either of the insurance payments but $20m combined seems like a pretty conservative estimate considering Cespedes could very easily be out the entire year (Minaya even said so) in which case his insurance alone would save them close to that amount.
RE: RE: Where did you see they were getting half of Cespedes's amount back?
I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.
Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
I think the key word is settlement when it comes to David Wright. So while the public may not know the parameters, the Mets certainly know. Therefore there really shouldnt be any excuses for not adding payroll at this time. Maybe they will only get half Wrights money this year. But that amount of money is not peanuts.
Still. Whether they know the amount or not we dont if it's that much less or not. Pretty clear they wont get be getting an extra 15 million this year. That should be obvious.
RE: Jeff Wilpon said the Ces insurance is a little less than Wright's 75%
so even if it's just 50% and in the best case Cespedes comes back at the deadline I think that means they would be getting a minimum of 25% of his total salary reimbursed (which would be $7.25m).
Wright's insurance would have covered $11.25m. I doubt the Mets took too many pennies less than that to get to upfront payment, but who knows.
We will never know the exact details of either of the insurance payments but $20m combined seems like a pretty conservative estimate considering Cespedes could very easily be out the entire year (Minaya even said so) in which case his insurance alone would save them close to that amount.
Before Omar chimed in about anything being gray I saw July 1 as the target. And if it's like Wright's does it not even kick in for 2 months? If true we get 75% of one month (assuming July 1) which equals a whopping 3.75 million. But wait! There's more. He said LESS than Wright. I think you get my point. Pretty wide range and it could be a decent amount or literally next to nothing until we know for sure.
well if you see july 1 as his return date i guess that settles that
and it's a lock he hits the shortest possible range of the 8-10 month timeline from Oct 23rd. He does have a track record of healing quickly.
re: the insurance waiting period, Wright's contract supposedly didn't reset the 60 day waiting period if he ended the year on the DL, which was in part why re-activating him was such a drama, so i'd consider it more likely than not Cespedes' insurance would function the same way. But you seem to like giving the wilpons the benefit of the doubt for whatever reason and since we will probably never know for sure carry on.
There is no way they are counting anything from Cespedes. If they have a finite amount from Wright and it's settled i think we can reasonably expect that to count and be available but not Cespedes.
"We still pay a big portion of it, OK?" Wilpon said. "When you're talking about $20 million and we're still paying 25 percent, that's a big number... We don't look at it that way. It's in the budget that his contract is what it is and there's a new deductible period that will start, and you only get 75 percent -- it's not just 75 percent as a total -- and then there's costs against that. We had to pay for the policy, which is not cheap.
"So there's other things. It's not dollar-for-dollar of the $20 million, 75 percent we're getting back. It's not that clear cut. But we try and go into the season looking at it like it's all part of the budget."
at the cano press conference 1 month ago he literally said the payroll "has opened up" and they were going to get insurance money from cespedes for the first half of the season and reinvest it (see link). The offseason isn't over but if they cut the payroll relative to last year, after another year of record setting profits in all baseball, the league should take the team from them for chronically lying to their fanbase. Jeff Wilpon on insurance money and payroll - ( New Window )
Yeah I dont think he committed to saying anything there actually...
He said "over time" "some" insurance will be paid back and "SOME" of that will be reinvested into the team. How much are they getting back over time? 3 million for Cespedes or 15? Is he talking about Wirght's portion or Cespedes's? how much is "some"??
At best it's extremely vague and if fans are pinning the Wilpon's to a cross based on those comments they deserve whatever letdown they receive. In no way shape or form is he saying the money for Wright and Cespedes's contracts are getting put back into the 2019 roster.
Arguments about team payroll are acts of futility.
The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.
However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.
Its weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really dont anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.
However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.
Its weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really dont anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
I think you pretty much described what many of us Mets fans feel down to each exact word.
The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.
However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.
Its weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really dont anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
I think you pretty much described what many of us Mets fans feel down to each exact word.
Here, IMO, its both true that (i) the Wilpons are a disgrace, will never spend appropriate amounts to put together a powerhouse team, and (ii) the 2019 team has a bunch of interesting players and I'm looking forward to watching them.
RE: Maybe the problem all along hasnt been the Wilpons
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.
It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.
It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
Come on man, in 2016 the Mets realized a ridiculous # of injuries. Bartolo Colon led the team in starts.
Wright was being relied on to start, deGrom, Harvey both missed significant time, Wheeler had TJS.
And they still won 87 games and lost the WC.
and then the wheels fell off in 2017 in injury terms and it was basically unrecoverable.
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.
It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
Come on man, in 2016 the Mets realized a ridiculous # of injuries. Bartolo Colon led the team in starts.
Wright was being relied on to start, deGrom, Harvey both missed significant time, Wheeler had TJS.
And they still won 87 games and lost the WC.
and then the wheels fell off in 2017 in injury terms and it was basically unrecoverable.
Mets are in the rebuild from that.
That's two years in just about a decade. Just like a few of the teams I mentioned (Royals, Blue Jays) but not quite as successful.
the Yankees (for example) haven't won a WS since 2009.
they haven't been to one since then.
In the past decade the only "dominant" teams in terms of playoff success have been the Cardinals, Giants, and Red Sox. Dodgers lost back to back WS, the Rangers lost back to back WS, the Royals split two WS, but in just over a decade only three multiple WS winners (so you can claim better run organization than the rest) - Red Sox, Giants, and Cardinals.
Mets don't need to spend at the Red Sox level, I'd be happy with Cardinals or Giants.
Not getting to see what JDG & Thor (& Wheeler & Diaz) can do in 7 game series will be a shame on this franchise for a long time if they don't do enough around them to make the playoffs the next few seasons. It's right there for the taking even without spending $300m on Harper or Machado.
Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.
Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.
Crazy good deal for that price. I would have been all over him. Twins are my perennial sleeper and will be again this year.
I'm hoping BVW is holding out for 1 or 2 of the better relievers. Herrera just went off the board at a very reasonable 2/18m. The Yankees are probably gonna get Ottavino for something similar, but maybe a couple mid relievers like Warren and Wilson are within their range for reasonable 1-2 year deals?
Around the fringes is where tendering TDA and dealing Plawecki seems questionable in the sense that with the money being = I'd rather have Plawecki and Parker than DL'arnaud. Seems obvious which of those options minimizes "ifs" and creates more overall depth for the $.
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
But this is where the fault lies. That 2015 team wasn't some juggernaut. It was a middling team that got historically hot after the acquisition of Cespedes and rode their pitching through the postseason. It also helped that the better team (Nationals) oddly imploded that year. Sun, moon and stars. THAT was the time to reinforce the team. But they went in the opposite direction.
You want to emulate the small market winning teams like KC? Then why send the prototypical "KC" type of player packing (Murphy). You want to blame injuries...fine. But who keeps bringing back these injury-prone players and backing them up with an old, ineffective bench? Why take one of your bright spots from last season (McNeil) and relegate him to the bench (IN DECEMBER) for next season in favor of Frasier?
I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I'm not asking to "buy" a world series championship each year. What I'd like is the OPPORTUNITY to get to the WS each year. You don't need to have a $200 million payroll to reach the playoffs consistently. I'm not asking to sign Machado or Harper (maybe I am) but to not even meet with them? When you have holes in these exact areas? But spending $20 mil a year on PED-user Cano for ages 36-41 is a sound decision? Come on.
The games we have to play around payroll for a NY team that charges a fortune to attend games is lunacy. Fans are lied to. LOL, fans are flat out BLAMED for the payroll. It's exhausting.
my point though with 2015 was and always has been that the Mets had a good enough core to contend for longer without spending a ton.
they should have done then what I want them to do now. Accentuate the strengths. Don't try and build a bullet proof team with all-stars at every spot, but make your strength better.
Sign a legit MLB starting pitcher. Or two. The top 3 is great or has the potential to be great, make the bottom two at least good.
Fix the bullpen, which they're on the way to doing.
Fix the defense.
I believe the Mets path to winning is with pitching and defense and it's not far-fetched. the Giants won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter, and on any of those 3 WS wins I believe only even had two players OPS over .800.
and they had deep but not super lights out bullpens.
Starting pitching, bullpen, and defense.
That's what the Mets should have done in 2015 and should do now.
I cited it before, who are the juggernauts?
The Astros? They're not done being contenders, but the Mets have been to the same # of WS as the Astros juggernaut. Of course they won it, so it's a success, but it's not like some unstoppable machine.
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
But this is where the fault lies. That 2015 team wasn't some juggernaut. It was a middling team that got historically hot after the acquisition of Cespedes and rode their pitching through the postseason. It also helped that the better team (Nationals) oddly imploded that year. Sun, moon and stars. THAT was the time to reinforce the team. But they went in the opposite direction.
You want to emulate the small market winning teams like KC? Then why send the prototypical "KC" type of player packing (Murphy). You want to blame injuries...fine. But who keeps bringing back these injury-prone players and backing them up with an old, ineffective bench? Why take one of your bright spots from last season (McNeil) and relegate him to the bench (IN DECEMBER) for next season in favor of Frasier?
I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I'm not asking to "buy" a world series championship each year. What I'd like is the OPPORTUNITY to get to the WS each year. You don't need to have a $200 million payroll to reach the playoffs consistently. I'm not asking to sign Machado or Harper (maybe I am) but to not even meet with them? When you have holes in these exact areas? But spending $20 mil a year on PED-user Cano for ages 36-41 is a sound decision? Come on.
The games we have to play around payroll for a NY team that charges a fortune to attend games is lunacy. Fans are lied to. LOL, fans are flat out BLAMED for the payroll. It's exhausting.
Preach. The most exhausting part is the wilpon apologists who act like this some amazing strategy.
Organization. Sweet we finally started to repair the farm and we immediately trade of a bulbous of long term assets to teams that have much starter analytic departments than us. I will never pull an arc but god damn I see the appeal.
poorly ranked if the major league team is a contender.
I'd sacrifice farm system ranking/talent for major league success in a heartbeat.
So often the top-ranked farm systems produce busts or the teams trade the prospects, or they just never translate to a successful major league team.
but 2017 - 2018 was the worst. the Mets picked #6 in the 2018 draft and had the 27th or whatever it was ranked farm. Yes they made strides to improve the farm, but having little talent in the minors and being awful in the majors is a toxic mix.
And the Mets cashed in a lot of those "chips" that had improved the farm system ranking and are likely back of the 20's again.
I think the Mets can work their way through this (at the major league level) but if they will remains to be seen.
every move they make is impacted by self imposed salary cap
I'm excited to see Diaz pitch, but they basically got him for 1 reason - to fit an extra reliever into their budget this year since he currently costs the league minimum.
In total the 4 years of Diaz will probably end up costing around $30m (3 arb years will pay him well).
They could have signed Herrera or Robertson for comparable or less than that same total sum of $ for 1 year less, and kept Kelenic + Dunn.
To avoid an $8m-$10m "cap hit" this year they gave up 2 of their top 6 prospects.
If Diaz ends up being Mariano Rivera or Kimbrel it's worth it, but otherwise they gave up at least 1 of their blue chippers for something that could be replaced on the open market pretty easily by spending the exact same total amount of money.
if we didn't get Broxton he would have been a nice depth piece. Could probably even make the case he'd be a better option. I like the broxton deal though personally. 20/20 upside with great D in CF is worth rolling the dice.
I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers.
At this point, I AM asking them to spend like those teams; they are a fucking NY based team, it's time they started acting like it! The recent trades are example #642 of small market mindedness; instead of ponying up cash to take on contracts and holding on to prospects, they make the other teams pay part of the acquired contract and give up good prospects.
You are right, it IS exhausting.
I hate the way this team operates. Not enough to pull an arc. But close.
I really dont understand this. Why are we continually linked to Cabrera, Moustakas, and now Dozier types AFTER we acquired Cano? Doesnt make sense. We already have three guys likely competing for 3B.
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This does not mean the Mets get the remaining $27M on Wright's contract back. It means they've reached a settlement with the insurance company on it and should have more payroll certainty w/r/t Wright, and he's now off the 40-man roster.
4:40 PM - 7 Jan 2019
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Indications are the Mets will wait out the market and see if anything makes sense for bullpen. Unclear how much Brodie Van Wagenen has left to spend this offseason, but it isnt a lot.
Believe they were around $150m prior to settling with Wright. Not to mention the expectation of recouping close to half of Cespedes' $29m. So if we extremely conservatively call that $20m savings, they are around $130m in payroll right now.
Or right around where the KC Royals #20 ranked opening day payroll was last year ($129.92m).
Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
I think the key word is settlement when it comes to David Wright. So while the public may not know the parameters, the Mets certainly know. Therefore there really shouldnt be any excuses for not adding payroll at this time. Maybe they will only get half Wrights money this year. But that amount of money is not peanuts.
Wright's insurance would have covered $11.25m. I doubt the Mets took too many pennies less than that to get to upfront payment, but who knows.
We will never know the exact details of either of the insurance payments but $20m combined seems like a pretty conservative estimate considering Cespedes could very easily be out the entire year (Minaya even said so) in which case his insurance alone would save them close to that amount.
Quote:
I haven't seen anything even remotely discussing the parameters of any kind of payout with him.
Also what are we saving from Wright this year? Half? Is the insurance company paying out next year? Still a ton of uncertainty there, at least publicly.
I think the key word is settlement when it comes to David Wright. So while the public may not know the parameters, the Mets certainly know. Therefore there really shouldnt be any excuses for not adding payroll at this time. Maybe they will only get half Wrights money this year. But that amount of money is not peanuts.
Still. Whether they know the amount or not we dont if it's that much less or not. Pretty clear they wont get be getting an extra 15 million this year. That should be obvious.
Wright's insurance would have covered $11.25m. I doubt the Mets took too many pennies less than that to get to upfront payment, but who knows.
We will never know the exact details of either of the insurance payments but $20m combined seems like a pretty conservative estimate considering Cespedes could very easily be out the entire year (Minaya even said so) in which case his insurance alone would save them close to that amount.
Before Omar chimed in about anything being gray I saw July 1 as the target. And if it's like Wright's does it not even kick in for 2 months? If true we get 75% of one month (assuming July 1) which equals a whopping 3.75 million. But wait! There's more. He said LESS than Wright. I think you get my point. Pretty wide range and it could be a decent amount or literally next to nothing until we know for sure.
re: the insurance waiting period, Wright's contract supposedly didn't reset the 60 day waiting period if he ended the year on the DL, which was in part why re-activating him was such a drama, so i'd consider it more likely than not Cespedes' insurance would function the same way. But you seem to like giving the wilpons the benefit of the doubt for whatever reason and since we will probably never know for sure carry on.
"We still pay a big portion of it, OK?" Wilpon said. "When you're talking about $20 million and we're still paying 25 percent, that's a big number... We don't look at it that way. It's in the budget that his contract is what it is and there's a new deductible period that will start, and you only get 75 percent -- it's not just 75 percent as a total -- and then there's costs against that. We had to pay for the policy, which is not cheap.
"So there's other things. It's not dollar-for-dollar of the $20 million, 75 percent we're getting back. It's not that clear cut. But we try and go into the season looking at it like it's all part of the budget."
Jeff Wilpon on insurance money and payroll - ( New Window )
At best it's extremely vague and if fans are pinning the Wilpon's to a cross based on those comments they deserve whatever letdown they receive. In no way shape or form is he saying the money for Wright and Cespedes's contracts are getting put back into the 2019 roster.
However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.
Its weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really dont anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.
Its weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really dont anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
I think you pretty much described what many of us Mets fans feel down to each exact word.
Too nice to be a GM. Probably bench coach or manager
Quote:
The Wilpons will NEVER spend what they need to make a complete, contending team. At least, not without those guaranteed Madoff profits. This is why their team is only competitive once every ten years. And those rare occurrences of success is purely based on the sun and stars aligning. Rinse, repeat.
However, they are perfectly fine with it costing a small fortune for the average family of four to attend their games.
Its weird, I really used to get excited for baseball and looked forward to a potentially successful season. I really dont anymore. Which is sad for me. Kick a dog enough times and they will eventually stop coming around.
I think you pretty much described what many of us Mets fans feel down to each exact word.
This is why arc defected
Here, IMO, its both true that (i) the Wilpons are a disgrace, will never spend appropriate amounts to put together a powerhouse team, and (ii) the 2019 team has a bunch of interesting players and I'm looking forward to watching them.
I wouldn't blame Arc for everything but he's certainly partly to blame. I don't think anyone ever thought differently.
Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.
It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
Quote:
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.
It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
Come on man, in 2016 the Mets realized a ridiculous # of injuries. Bartolo Colon led the team in starts.
Wright was being relied on to start, deGrom, Harvey both missed significant time, Wheeler had TJS.
And they still won 87 games and lost the WC.
and then the wheels fell off in 2017 in injury terms and it was basically unrecoverable.
Mets are in the rebuild from that.
Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.
Quote:
Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.
Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.
Crazy good deal for that price. I would have been all over him. Twins are my perennial sleeper and will be again this year.
Quote:
In comment 14253722 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
Even small spending teams can make a run every now and then for a short while. Teams like the Royals, Brewers, Blue Jays, Orioles have gone on deep playoff runs for a year or two when things all come together but then quickly go back to being afterthoughts for a while.
It looks like the 2015 Mets follow the pattern of those types of teams, rather than the consistent contenders. 2019 is a chance to change that a bit by making another run, but the Mets have only had a couple of winnings seasons after about decade or so of post-madoff Wilpons with Alderson as GM.
Come on man, in 2016 the Mets realized a ridiculous # of injuries. Bartolo Colon led the team in starts.
Wright was being relied on to start, deGrom, Harvey both missed significant time, Wheeler had TJS.
And they still won 87 games and lost the WC.
and then the wheels fell off in 2017 in injury terms and it was basically unrecoverable.
Mets are in the rebuild from that.
That's two years in just about a decade. Just like a few of the teams I mentioned (Royals, Blue Jays) but not quite as successful.
they haven't been to one since then.
In the past decade the only "dominant" teams in terms of playoff success have been the Cardinals, Giants, and Red Sox. Dodgers lost back to back WS, the Rangers lost back to back WS, the Royals split two WS, but in just over a decade only three multiple WS winners (so you can claim better run organization than the rest) - Red Sox, Giants, and Cardinals.
Mets don't need to spend at the Red Sox level, I'd be happy with Cardinals or Giants.
Maybe when he reaches 90, he will spend the money to win it like the Tigers owner Mickey Illitch did
Quote:
In comment 14253745 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Blake Parker signing is A+ for the Twins at that price. Damn.
Agreed! Can't believe there wasn't more interest in him.
Crazy good deal for that price. I would have been all over him. Twins are my perennial sleeper and will be again this year.
I'm hoping BVW is holding out for 1 or 2 of the better relievers. Herrera just went off the board at a very reasonable 2/18m. The Yankees are probably gonna get Ottavino for something similar, but maybe a couple mid relievers like Warren and Wilson are within their range for reasonable 1-2 year deals?
Around the fringes is where tendering TDA and dealing Plawecki seems questionable in the sense that with the money being = I'd rather have Plawecki and Parker than DL'arnaud. Seems obvious which of those options minimizes "ifs" and creates more overall depth for the $.
But this is where the fault lies. That 2015 team wasn't some juggernaut. It was a middling team that got historically hot after the acquisition of Cespedes and rode their pitching through the postseason. It also helped that the better team (Nationals) oddly imploded that year. Sun, moon and stars. THAT was the time to reinforce the team. But they went in the opposite direction.
You want to emulate the small market winning teams like KC? Then why send the prototypical "KC" type of player packing (Murphy). You want to blame injuries...fine. But who keeps bringing back these injury-prone players and backing them up with an old, ineffective bench? Why take one of your bright spots from last season (McNeil) and relegate him to the bench (IN DECEMBER) for next season in favor of Frasier?
I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I'm not asking to "buy" a world series championship each year. What I'd like is the OPPORTUNITY to get to the WS each year. You don't need to have a $200 million payroll to reach the playoffs consistently. I'm not asking to sign Machado or Harper (maybe I am) but to not even meet with them? When you have holes in these exact areas? But spending $20 mil a year on PED-user Cano for ages 36-41 is a sound decision? Come on.
The games we have to play around payroll for a NY team that charges a fortune to attend games is lunacy. Fans are lied to. LOL, fans are flat out BLAMED for the payroll. It's exhausting.
they should have done then what I want them to do now. Accentuate the strengths. Don't try and build a bullet proof team with all-stars at every spot, but make your strength better.
Sign a legit MLB starting pitcher. Or two. The top 3 is great or has the potential to be great, make the bottom two at least good.
Fix the bullpen, which they're on the way to doing.
Fix the defense.
I believe the Mets path to winning is with pitching and defense and it's not far-fetched. the Giants won 3 WS without a 30 HR hitter, and on any of those 3 WS wins I believe only even had two players OPS over .800.
and they had deep but not super lights out bullpens.
Starting pitching, bullpen, and defense.
That's what the Mets should have done in 2015 and should do now.
I cited it before, who are the juggernauts?
The Astros? They're not done being contenders, but the Mets have been to the same # of WS as the Astros juggernaut. Of course they won it, so it's a success, but it's not like some unstoppable machine.
The Cubs? on the downward trend IMO.
it was the teams I named before.
Quote:
but then there are the 2015's that pull some of us in and feel like there is a path to winning that doesn't include spending the most in the league.
But this is where the fault lies. That 2015 team wasn't some juggernaut. It was a middling team that got historically hot after the acquisition of Cespedes and rode their pitching through the postseason. It also helped that the better team (Nationals) oddly imploded that year. Sun, moon and stars. THAT was the time to reinforce the team. But they went in the opposite direction.
You want to emulate the small market winning teams like KC? Then why send the prototypical "KC" type of player packing (Murphy). You want to blame injuries...fine. But who keeps bringing back these injury-prone players and backing them up with an old, ineffective bench? Why take one of your bright spots from last season (McNeil) and relegate him to the bench (IN DECEMBER) for next season in favor of Frasier?
I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers. I'm not asking to "buy" a world series championship each year. What I'd like is the OPPORTUNITY to get to the WS each year. You don't need to have a $200 million payroll to reach the playoffs consistently. I'm not asking to sign Machado or Harper (maybe I am) but to not even meet with them? When you have holes in these exact areas? But spending $20 mil a year on PED-user Cano for ages 36-41 is a sound decision? Come on.
The games we have to play around payroll for a NY team that charges a fortune to attend games is lunacy. Fans are lied to. LOL, fans are flat out BLAMED for the payroll. It's exhausting.
Preach. The most exhausting part is the wilpon apologists who act like this some amazing strategy.
I'd sacrifice farm system ranking/talent for major league success in a heartbeat.
So often the top-ranked farm systems produce busts or the teams trade the prospects, or they just never translate to a successful major league team.
but 2017 - 2018 was the worst. the Mets picked #6 in the 2018 draft and had the 27th or whatever it was ranked farm. Yes they made strides to improve the farm, but having little talent in the minors and being awful in the majors is a toxic mix.
And the Mets cashed in a lot of those "chips" that had improved the farm system ranking and are likely back of the 20's again.
I think the Mets can work their way through this (at the major league level) but if they will remains to be seen.
In total the 4 years of Diaz will probably end up costing around $30m (3 arb years will pay him well).
They could have signed Herrera or Robertson for comparable or less than that same total sum of $ for 1 year less, and kept Kelenic + Dunn.
To avoid an $8m-$10m "cap hit" this year they gave up 2 of their top 6 prospects.
If Diaz ends up being Mariano Rivera or Kimbrel it's worth it, but otherwise they gave up at least 1 of their blue chippers for something that could be replaced on the open market pretty easily by spending the exact same total amount of money.
Brodie Van Wagenen
Verified account @GMBVW
4m4 minutes ago
Heres a behind-the-scenes look at a player development meeting. Our staff is preparing and working hard as #SpringTraining approaches.
I'm not asking to spend like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers.
At this point, I AM asking them to spend like those teams; they are a fucking NY based team, it's time they started acting like it! The recent trades are example #642 of small market mindedness; instead of ponying up cash to take on contracts and holding on to prospects, they make the other teams pay part of the acquired contract and give up good prospects.
You are right, it IS exhausting.
I hate the way this team operates. Not enough to pull an arc. But close.
HAHA!
I really dont understand this. Why are we continually linked to Cabrera, Moustakas, and now Dozier types AFTER we acquired Cano? Doesnt make sense. We already have three guys likely competing for 3B.