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CFB National Championship Game: Alabama vs. Clemson - 8pm

arcarsenal : 1/7/2019 6:48 pm
Figured a separate game thread would be a good idea as to not cloud up the draft prospects thread with 300 other posts from other game-related stuff.

I know most of the world is already tired of this matchup. But they're the two best teams, and if the goal is to have the two best teams be left standing at the end, it's happening here.

We can debate the recruitment process and everything else until the cows come home, but that's for another day.

Saban vs. Dabo. Tua vs. Lawrence. Bama vs. Clemson.

Expecting another one to go down to the wire with these teams. They've been on a collision course all year. Now they're here.

Roll Tide, Roll!
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RE: And if you look at their OOC SOS  
GiantGrit : 1/8/2019 1:37 am : link
In comment 14253593 MookGiants said:
Quote:
over the last decade, they have been in the top 5 almost every year. But yeah, lets hammer them because they dont play a true road game OOC.

You're acting like scheduling USC, Michigan, Louisville, Florida state to kickoff their seasons doesnt matter because its on a neutral field.

Bama doesn't need to make any excuses for the way they schedule because they always have a difficult schedule.

The same cant be said about some of the teams you are praising.


Where's the link for the stat you just pulled out of your ass? Clean it before you share it.
RE: Quinnen Williams  
jeff57 : 1/8/2019 5:12 am : link
In comment 14253572 MookGiants said:
Quote:
did not sound very intelligent in his postgame press conference. Wow that was painful to listen to. I can't imagine he's going to do well in the interview process when he meets with teams.


Heís not playing QB.
I think Thompson  
jeff57 : 1/8/2019 5:16 am : link
Was shown again to be a bit overrated and certainly not worthy of a top ten pick. I think both Ferrell and J. Williams both did well. Could live with either at pick 6.
I almost bet the Bama ML -210  
Jints in Carolina : 1/8/2019 7:38 am : link
Glad I chickened out at the end.

Tide rolled.
Being a Badger fan  
Jay in Toronto : 1/8/2019 7:40 am : link
I have been appreciating the difference an elite DC makes (Aranda, Wilcox, now Leonhard).

Clemson has confirmed it.
I think itís the first time I have seen Saban outcoached  
Rick in Dallas : 1/8/2019 7:47 am : link
Masterful game plan on defense by Venables had Tua confused on several pass coverages. Also some mind numbing calls by Saban in second half in red zone. Lawrence for a 19 year old showed great composure and Ross made some unbelievable catches.
Clemson just has a better defense than Alabama  
jeff57 : 1/8/2019 7:49 am : link
That's why I picked them.
RE: I think itís the first time I have seen Saban outcoached  
Jints in Carolina : 1/8/2019 7:53 am : link
In comment 14253650 Rick in Dallas said:
Quote:
Masterful game plan on defense by Venables had Tua confused on several pass coverages. Also some mind numbing calls by Saban in second half in red zone. Lawrence for a 19 year old showed great composure and Ross made some unbelievable catches.


I'm still trying to figure out that fake FG attempt.
RE: Bama  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/8/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14253570 MookGiants said:
Quote:
has schedule tough OOC opponents to start the year, yes mostly at a neutral site, but there is no real benefit to them playing a true road game OOC. They will do it, as they are playing a home and home with ND and Texas down the road.

They have ooc games scheduled against miami, usc soon too. Both neutral sites.

If you think this game had anything to do with not scheduling a true out of conference road game you're lost. They played in the best conference in the country and got through their schedule undefeated. Clemson has a significantly easier schedule this year than Bama did. Not even close really.

Weird thing to complain about after Bama got destroyed by a team who played a significantly easier schedule this year


Atlanta is not a neutral site at all. Itís practically a home game.
Put Bama in the Big 12 and let's see how that defense would play  
Jints in Carolina : 1/8/2019 8:00 am : link
They hardly face any decent QB's in the SEC and got rolled when they finally were confronted with one.
RE: No thanks  
Percy : 1/8/2019 8:01 am : link
In comment 14253537 WillVAB said:
Quote:
On any Bama player at 6.

Ha, ha! And so much for the BBI camp wanting to wait to replace Eli with Tua next year. (I kind of secretly was one of those. Was starting to think of trading down for Jonah Willliams at OT for our first draft choice, too.) Sort of wrecked a whole lot of expectations about how the draft will go.
RE: And if you look at their OOC SOS  
Mike in NY : 1/8/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14253593 MookGiants said:
Quote:
over the last decade, they have been in the top 5 almost every year. But yeah, lets hammer them because they dont play a true road game OOC.

You're acting like scheduling USC, Michigan, Louisville, Florida state to kickoff their seasons doesnt matter because its on a neutral field.

Bama doesn't need to make any excuses for the way they schedule because they always have a difficult schedule.

The same cant be said about some of the teams you are praising.


The next times that Alabama has an away game out of conference not a neutral site is 2022 (at Texas) and 2028 (at Notre Dame). Other top teams play out of conference at non-neutral sites more regularly.
RE: Put Bama in the Big 12 and let's see how that defense would play  
jeff57 : 1/8/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14253662 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
They hardly face any decent QB's in the SEC and got rolled when they finally were confronted with one.


Fromm and Lock aren't decent? And didn't they just beat a Big 12 team.
I wouldn't say..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/8/2019 8:20 am : link
it is the end all, be all, but it is fair to judge players on how they handle big games:

Quote:
Criticism of Tua is laughable... reminds me of the foolishness
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/7/2019 11:47 pm : link : reply
with Darnold during the UCLA and Ohio St games in 2017


Last night will likely hurt Tua's stock a bit, but he has a year to show otherwise. Against the closest thing he'll see to an NFL defense, he was shown looks that confused him. Not a career killer, but he'll likely have to show he can solve defenses.

Just like the Darnold criticisms weren't off base. They showed that he's poor at ball security and would sometimes make some terrible decisions leading to INT's. Both things that were present in his play as a rookie.
RE: RE: Put Bama in the Big 12 and let's see how that defense would play  
Jints in Carolina : 1/8/2019 8:22 am : link
In comment 14253672 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253662 Jints in Carolina said:


Quote:


They hardly face any decent QB's in the SEC and got rolled when they finally were confronted with one.



Fromm and Lock aren't decent? And didn't they just beat a Big 12 team.


Yeah Mizzou is a powerhouse...I'll give you Fromm but UGA always finds a way to fuck up.

Sure they beat a Big 12 team...a team that has zero defense...but OU's offense did rough them up a bit.
Speaking of draft stock  
Strahan91 : 1/8/2019 8:23 am : link
Thoughts on Jonah Williams vs Ferrell? Seemed like Ferrell got the best of him several times.
RE: Speaking of draft stock  
jeff57 : 1/8/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14253686 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
Thoughts on Jonah Williams vs Ferrell? Seemed like Ferrell got the best of him several times.


I think they both had their moments and both did well.
RE: RE: Quinnen Williams  
WillVAB : 1/8/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14253614 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14253572 MookGiants said:


Quote:


did not sound very intelligent in his postgame press conference. Wow that was painful to listen to. I can't imagine he's going to do well in the interview process when he meets with teams.



Heís not playing QB.


DG is trying to get rid of dumbasses not add them ó and he quit in the 2nd half yesterday. Hard pass.
RE: I wouldn't say..  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2019 10:24 am : link
In comment 14253683 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
it is the end all, be all, but it is fair to judge players on how they handle big games


In Peyton Manning's last collegiate game (as a senior, not a sophomore like Tua) he went 21-31 for a mere 134 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT in a blowout loss to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.

All the flak Tua's getting in this thread is way over the top. He was outplayed by Trevor Lawrence, yes - no big shame there as Lawrence is easily the most impressive college QB since Luck. People are acting as if he played a SB 35 Kerry Collins type game. He made two massive mistakes that hurt his team but made some big throws as well, despite being the victim of several terrible drops by his receivers and Clemson getting away with blatant PI and defensive holding on two huge third downs in the second half.
RE: Quinnen Williams  
Anakim : 1/8/2019 10:28 am : link
In comment 14253572 MookGiants said:
Quote:
did not sound very intelligent in his postgame press conference. Wow that was painful to listen to. I can't imagine he's going to do well in the interview process when he meets with teams.


"The receivers really adjusted on every ball he threw. Because [Trevor Lawrence] didnít throw great balls. He didnít throw pinpoint balls. He just threw 50-50 balls. He threw it up.Ē

That part or did he say something else?
Greg..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/8/2019 11:01 am : link
it is over the top. I'm not even piling on. I'm just saying that big games will sometimes lead to questions.

If you remember back to Manning, that final game clouded whether he would be the unanimous #1 pick or not, so it even impacted him
The problem with Tua  
dep026 : 1/8/2019 11:16 am : link
is in the Georgia and Clemson games. He looked average. He really struggled at times. Now, it doesnt mean he is going to bust or not be the number 1 pick. But questions should come up.

Lets be fair, if we are going to ride Haskins for playign easy teams and playing with superior talent - we can do the same for Tua. Tua really struggled I thought last night. But by no means is he finished as a prospect.
Peyton Manning was attacked for never winning it all in college.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/8/2019 11:20 am : link
All the way up to the draft.
As regards Tua  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/8/2019 11:22 am : link
I would always be leery of QBs who play in idea situations. When you never have to worry about pass protection, and you get a lot of short fields because of a shocking good defense and run games, it doesn't leave room for a lot of scouting in football situations.

You learn the most about a player as he undergoes adversity.
RE: The problem with Tua  
Eman11 : 1/8/2019 11:27 am : link
In comment 14253960 dep026 said:
Quote:
is in the Georgia and Clemson games. He looked average. He really struggled at times. Now, it doesnt mean he is going to bust or not be the number 1 pick. But questions should come up.

Lets be fair, if we are going to ride Haskins for playign easy teams and playing with superior talent - we can do the same for Tua. Tua really struggled I thought last night. But by no means is he finished as a prospect.


If we are really being fair, he played on one leg in the Georgia game, had surgery after and played on it last night.

It's been a little over a month after surgery on his ankle and he was out there last night. I'm not saying he gets a pass since he was healthy enough to play but I find it hard to believe he was at 100%.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 11:32 am : link
Tua was all sorts of banged up as the year went on. I completely expected all of the overreactions I'm seeing today - it is what it is. He's an excellent prospect and he had an awesome year. He'll be even better next year.

First Dallas and Philadelphia advance, then Bama gets completely embarrassed in the championship game. What a 3 day "weekend"...
RE: .  
bw in dc : 1/8/2019 11:44 am : link
In comment 14253996 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Tua was all sorts of banged up as the year went on. I completely expected all of the overreactions I'm seeing today - it is what it is. He's an excellent prospect and he had an awesome year. He'll be even better next year.

First Dallas and Philadelphia advance, then Bama gets completely embarrassed in the championship game. What a 3 day "weekend"...


I apologize if I'm nit-picking, but I'm not sure Tua is an "excellent prospect". Definitely a quality QB prospect.

There are some size concerns - height and hand - and he's a lefty, which changes things from an offensive perspective since the RT now becomes the de facto LT. And he's been very susceptible to injury.

So there are some legitimate flags.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 12:04 pm : link
Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.

Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.

Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.

People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.

No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.
RE: .  
adamg : 1/8/2019 12:13 pm : link
In comment 14254079 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.

Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.

Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.

People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.

No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.


It goes both ways too. Looking forward to back peddling that will occur if/when Lawrence has a particularly shitty game. The jizz spilled on BBI in the past 24 hours over that kid is ridiculous.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 12:18 pm : link
In comment 14254111 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14254079 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.

Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.

Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.

People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.

No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.



It goes both ways too. Looking forward to back peddling that will occur if/when Lawrence has a particularly shitty game. The jizz spilled on BBI in the past 24 hours over that kid is ridiculous.


Yeah, I'm very big on Lawrence but you're right - he's being talked about like Jesus playing QB right now. If he struggles at any point, the same shit will start to happen.

I think both of these guys are going to be fantastic NFL QB's.
Tua had a not terrific game against  
Ash_3 : 1/8/2019 12:28 pm : link
a Clemson defensive line with three likely high first rounders. Folks need to slow down. People often ask why we keep watching ESPN and other hot take outlets. The answer is obvious: folks like hot takes and they like tearing down people just as much as they like building them up.

Tua's a fantastic prospect; I think Lawrence is better, but we're talking about two outstanding young QBs; if either were in this year's draft, we'd be talking about how we could go and get em.
Thinking about the game last night.....  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2019 1:36 pm : link
I recalled something Fowler and Herbstreit mentioned during the broadcast - the unbelievable amount of turnover in the Alabama coaching staff over the past few years. Gotta think that lack of continuity has to take a toll eventually, and last night was arguably the worst coaching performance of Saban's college career.
Some stat: 55-4 for Clemson's senior class (per ESPN) -  
Del Shofner : 1/8/2019 3:19 pm : link
"Clemson's senior class finished 55-4, tied with the current Alabama senior class for the most wins by a class in FBS history."
RE: Thinking about the game last night.....  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14254264 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I recalled something Fowler and Herbstreit mentioned during the broadcast - the unbelievable amount of turnover in the Alabama coaching staff over the past few years. Gotta think that lack of continuity has to take a toll eventually, and last night was arguably the worst coaching performance of Saban's college career.


It's definitely a challenge. Saban loses a huge chunk of his roster yearly and although there's usually a steady flow of 4 and 5 star recruits coming into the pipeline, none of them are automatic. Young kids coming out of HS have to be coached up and have a ton to learn - the transition from HS to a huge CFB program like Alabama is not an easy one.

Last night just felt like one of those nights. I feel like if they played eachother 9 more times, there probably wouldn't be a repeat of last night. Clemson would absolutely beat Alabama a bunch more - but it was just a very atypical game for Bama in so many ways.

Too much confusion in coverage... then Saivion Smith goes down in a crumpled heap with Bama's chances hanging by a thread leading to another easy/long TD.

Saban won't sleep for weeks after last night I'm sure. Just such an un-Saban like performance from the team.

In some ways, I don't mind it. I've grown somewhat tired of my friends whining about how Alabama never loses, how it's not fair, how there's no reason to play the games - just hand them the trophy, etc. Poor Clemson... from the wee little ACC having won two titles in the last 3 years now and going undefeated this season...

They deserved it, though. I do prefer Lawrence to Tua at this point in time. But I also think all the dumping on Tua because of one or two games is getting ridiculous. It's not even like he was dreadful last night - he made a lot of really great throws and completed most of his passes. He just never saw the DB come off his coverage on the first INT and then the 2nd one was just a really stupid mistake. It happens.... I watched Andrew Luck do the same exact thing against Tennessee a couple weeks ago.

Looking forward to next season. This team will have a chip on their shoulders.

Damien Harris is graduating and moving onto the NFL - not sure if Josh Jacobs will stay for his senior year or not.

But Trey Sanders is going to be a beast and Damien going to the draft should open up a lot more work for Najee who needs to be featured way, way more. 121 total touches is not enough for him.

Jerry Jeudy will also be back. Absolute stud WR. Guy will be a star in the NFL. Great wiggle after the catch and a big play, scoring machine.

Hopefully we get a shot at redemption next year like we did last year.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 3:41 pm : link
Irv Smith is also going to be part of this new breed of NFL TE's once he moves on. He's got that size/speed combo that teams just have tons of trouble covering.

I'm not expecting QWill to be on the board when NYG pick @ 6 - but if he is, I hope they seriously consider him. He can play in any system. He is Aaron Donald lite. Guy is a fucking wrecking ball.
RE: .  
bw in dc : 1/8/2019 3:42 pm : link
In comment 14254079 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.

Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.

Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.

People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.

No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.


I didn't/don't think Mayfield's height is ideal either. I know the league is changing, but 6'1" still isn't the prototypical height.

I like Tua. He's been so refreshing for Alabama because he's a real play-making QB. Yet, I've always put some emphasis on metrics. They are mostly reliable.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 3:48 pm : link
One last thing -

I know I belabored this point a bit last night earlier in the game, but I hope Saban considers moving back towards a more run-heavy/defense-oriented approach.

It almost felt like once Tua was under center, there became this irresistible urge to play with the new toy and start airing it out like crazy.

Over 100 more passes were thrown this regular season than last year. I know Tua can sling it - I don't want them to waste him, either. But I just feel like they really got away from what makes Alabama what they are and what they've been.

I want to see them pummel teams with the run more and then have Tua take shots downfield. Grind teams down and then beat them with the big play.
RE: RE: Thinking about the game last night.....  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2019 3:49 pm : link
In comment 14254438 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
But I also think all the dumping on Tua because of one or two games is getting ridiculous. It's not even like he was dreadful last night - he made a lot of really great throws and completed most of his passes. He just never saw the DB come off his coverage on the first INT and then the 2nd one was just a really stupid mistake. It happens.... I watched Andrew Luck do the same exact thing against Tennessee a couple weeks ago.


This was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. You had dep with his idiotic "Tua shit the bed" nonsense for a night where he made a bunch of good to great throws and a few bad ones. A flawed performance, but not a terrible one by any means. It just looked worse than it was because you had Lawrence on the other side playing pretty much lights out.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 3:54 pm : link
In comment 14254443 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14254079 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.

Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.

Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.

People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.

No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.



I didn't/don't think Mayfield's height is ideal either. I know the league is changing, but 6'1" still isn't the prototypical height.

I like Tua. He's been so refreshing for Alabama because he's a real play-making QB. Yet, I've always put some emphasis on metrics. They are mostly reliable.


I don't think it matters much - Wilson is even shorter and has regularly been one of the best QB's in football over the last few years.

Brees' height has never been an issue, either.

Sure, you'd rather have the guy be like 6'5" but 6'1" really isn't a problem in my opinion

A guy Kyler Murray's size? Okay - that's where I become concerned. But Tua is like 20lbs heavier than he is and is also a few inches taller.

Tua may not have "ideal" NFL size, but it won't be a hindrance. He'll be able to make it work just like Mayfield is and like some other guys have been.
RE: RE: RE: Thinking about the game last night.....  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14254455 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14254438 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


But I also think all the dumping on Tua because of one or two games is getting ridiculous. It's not even like he was dreadful last night - he made a lot of really great throws and completed most of his passes. He just never saw the DB come off his coverage on the first INT and then the 2nd one was just a really stupid mistake. It happens.... I watched Andrew Luck do the same exact thing against Tennessee a couple weeks ago.



This was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. You had dep with his idiotic "Tua shit the bed" nonsense for a night where he made a bunch of good to great throws and a few bad ones. A flawed performance, but not a terrible one by any means. It just looked worse than it was because you had Lawrence on the other side playing pretty much lights out.


If we're talking about who shit the bed last night, the defense is number one on the list. They could not get stops on 3rd down, there were blown coverages left and right. Pressure wasn't getting home. Guys looked confused, they weren't tackling well. That's not Alabama defense.

Nick Saban is right under it. The fake FG call was horrendous - maybe the worst call I've seen him make for as long as he's been here. The adjustments didn't work after half - the offense just couldn't get out of its own way. Plenty of moving the football. Just stupid, careless mistakes. Penalties, turnovers... slop.

Just very atypical and disappointing. It won't happen again next year.
Wait....  
dep026 : 1/8/2019 4:00 pm : link
we are saying Tua didnt shit the bed last night? Ok...

Sure he made a nice couple throws. But after the first quarter he was nonfactor. A pick 6, and other horrible INT, indecisive, etc...

It doesnt mean he sucks. It doesnt mean he doesnt have a bright future. But he stunk last night. He was considered by many the best college football player this year. He didnt come through.

Yes the defense was terrible too. The kicker sucks. Saban coached a pretty bad game. But Tua played a terrible game.
that fake was baaaaaaaad  
Greg from LI : 1/8/2019 4:01 pm : link
Using the holder as a lead blocker?? That's Mike London level bad.

All year long, it felt like the Bama defense wasn't on a par with their recent defenses despite looking good on paper. That proved to be the case.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 4:17 pm : link
Tua definitely didn't come through last night - he deserves blame too. It was a team failure. It just seems like the perception of him is suddenly that he's not an NFL-caliber QB or just some product of playing for Alabama when that's not remotely true. I've watched a lot of pretty crappy QB's here... Tua is head and shoulders the best one I've seen.

He will get healthy this offseason and bounce back next year. I'd be shocked if he's not in the Heisman convo again.
RE: that fake was baaaaaaaad  
arcarsenal : 1/8/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14254471 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Using the holder as a lead blocker?? That's Mike London level bad.

All year long, it felt like the Bama defense wasn't on a par with their recent defenses despite looking good on paper. That proved to be the case.


I'm just not even sure why they ran it at all. Clemson was more or less in a standard defense. They weren't buying Saban letting Bulovas kick the ball from 40 yards away. The play had no chance.

At least run a fake that involves throwing the ball.

The play design on that was just... bad.
RE: .  
dep026 : 1/8/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14254488 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Tua definitely didn't come through last night - he deserves blame too. It was a team failure. It just seems like the perception of him is suddenly that he's not an NFL-caliber QB or just some product of playing for Alabama when that's not remotely true. I've watched a lot of pretty crappy QB's here... Tua is head and shoulders the best one I've seen.

He will get healthy this offseason and bounce back next year. I'd be shocked if he's not in the Heisman convo again.


I agree with all of this. Heís still amazing. He just had a bad gsme. I would like to see him fully healthy too. Injuries to players suck.
RE: RE: I wouldn't say..  
.McL. : 1/8/2019 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14253852 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14253683 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


it is the end all, be all, but it is fair to judge players on how they handle big games



In Peyton Manning's last collegiate game (as a senior, not a sophomore like Tua) he went 21-31 for a mere 134 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT in a blowout loss to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.

All the flak Tua's getting in this thread is way over the top. He was outplayed by Trevor Lawrence, yes - no big shame there as Lawrence is easily the most impressive college QB since Luck. People are acting as if he played a SB 35 Kerry Collins type game. He made two massive mistakes that hurt his team but made some big throws as well, despite being the victim of several terrible drops by his receivers and Clemson getting away with blatant PI and defensive holding on two huge third downs in the second half.


I agree here. Tua didn't have a good game, but it wasn't as bad as some make it out to be. All QBs have games like that at times. It's a setback for for Tua, but it will also be a good measuring stick for him. Can he learn from it, and come back better. If so he can raise his stock perhaps even higher than it might have gone otherwise.

Since Clemson took it to Bama in every phase of the game, it really looked more like a bad coaching job on Saban's part and a really good one by Swinney. Bama just didn't look prepared for what Clemson was doing in any phase of the game.
We build these players up just to delight in tearing them down.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/8/2019 4:50 pm : link
People started talking about Tua like his was god's gift just off last year's title game. Now he looks remotely human and there's a line down the block of people with shovels in hand waiting to throw dirt and repeat the same thing with Lawrence.
RE: RE: RE: I wouldn't say..  
MetsAreBack : 1/8/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14254509 .McL. said:
Quote:


Since Clemson took it to Bama in every phase of the game, it really looked more like a bad coaching job on Saban's part and a really good one by Swinney. Bama just didn't look prepared for what Clemson was doing in any phase of the game.


Score was certainly lopsided, but yards gained in the game were pretty even and thats with Clemson going on a 90 yard drive late in the 4Q when Bama had flown the white flag, and included a 75 yard TD pass that was due to a Bama corner injury on the snap.

Turnovers were huge, some coaching mistakes like the dumb fake FG, the penalty on the 0.5 yard line...

Much like the Clemson-ND game when everyone was quick to say ND didnt belong... sometimes final scores can be a little misleading.
This is a tangent that..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/8/2019 10:10 pm : link
really should be discussed (not necessarily on BBI, but in the Media):

Quote:
We build these players up just to delight in tearing them down.
Ten Ton Hammer : 4:50 pm : link : reply
People started talking about Tua like his was god's gift just off last year's title game. Now he looks remotely human and there's a line down the block of people with shovels in hand waiting to throw dirt and repeat the same thing with Lawrence.


Look at how sick people got of Brett Favre. Remember when ESPN had updates on him visiting Minnesota and crap like that? It was such overload that it turned into backlash.

Same for Tebow. The Media incessantly made him out to be some super-human QB. Inundated us with Tebowing. People got sick and tired of it.

Both cases, the player suffered because the Media built things up to an absurd point.
RE: RE: RE: .  
bw in dc : 1/9/2019 12:46 am : link
In comment 14254463 arcarsenal said:
Quote:

I don't think it matters much - Wilson is even shorter and has regularly been one of the best QB's in football over the last few years.

Brees' height has never been an issue, either.

Sure, you'd rather have the guy be like 6'5" but 6'1" really isn't a problem in my opinion

A guy Kyler Murray's size? Okay - that's where I become concerned. But Tua is like 20lbs heavier than he is and is also a few inches taller.

Tua may not have "ideal" NFL size, but it won't be a hindrance. He'll be able to make it work just like Mayfield is and like some other guys have been.


Mayfield may have finally broken the mold for size not being as critical. Wilson was still a 4th rounder and Brees a 2nd rounder.

However, if Murray opts for the NFL he's going to be a very interesting case study. If the NFL risks a first round pick on him the things have really changed. He's a first round athlete for sure, but his height is a major. major concern at 5'9".
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