Figured a separate game thread would be a good idea as to not cloud up the draft prospects thread with 300 other posts from other game-related stuff.
I know most of the world is already tired of this matchup. But they're the two best teams, and if the goal is to have the two best teams be left standing at the end, it's happening here.
We can debate the recruitment process and everything else until the cows come home, but that's for another day.
Saban vs. Dabo. Tua vs. Lawrence. Bama vs. Clemson.
Expecting another one to go down to the wire with these teams. They've been on a collision course all year. Now they're here.
Roll Tide, Roll!
You're acting like scheduling USC, Michigan, Louisville, Florida state to kickoff their seasons doesnt matter because its on a neutral field.
Bama doesn't need to make any excuses for the way they schedule because they always have a difficult schedule.
The same cant be said about some of the teams you are praising.
Where's the link for the stat you just pulled out of your ass? Clean it before you share it.
He’s not playing QB.
Tide rolled.
Clemson has confirmed it.
I'm still trying to figure out that fake FG attempt.
They have ooc games scheduled against miami, usc soon too. Both neutral sites.
If you think this game had anything to do with not scheduling a true out of conference road game you're lost. They played in the best conference in the country and got through their schedule undefeated. Clemson has a significantly easier schedule this year than Bama did. Not even close really.
Weird thing to complain about after Bama got destroyed by a team who played a significantly easier schedule this year
Atlanta is not a neutral site at all. It’s practically a home game.
Ha, ha! And so much for the BBI camp wanting to wait to replace Eli with Tua next year. (I kind of secretly was one of those. Was starting to think of trading down for Jonah Willliams at OT for our first draft choice, too.) Sort of wrecked a whole lot of expectations about how the draft will go.
You're acting like scheduling USC, Michigan, Louisville, Florida state to kickoff their seasons doesnt matter because its on a neutral field.
Bama doesn't need to make any excuses for the way they schedule because they always have a difficult schedule.
The same cant be said about some of the teams you are praising.
The next times that Alabama has an away game out of conference not a neutral site is 2022 (at Texas) and 2028 (at Notre Dame). Other top teams play out of conference at non-neutral sites more regularly.
Fromm and Lock aren't decent? And didn't they just beat a Big 12 team.
shockeyisthebest8056 : 1/7/2019 11:47 pm : link : reply
with Darnold during the UCLA and Ohio St games in 2017
Last night will likely hurt Tua's stock a bit, but he has a year to show otherwise. Against the closest thing he'll see to an NFL defense, he was shown looks that confused him. Not a career killer, but he'll likely have to show he can solve defenses.
Just like the Darnold criticisms weren't off base. They showed that he's poor at ball security and would sometimes make some terrible decisions leading to INT's. Both things that were present in his play as a rookie.
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They hardly face any decent QB's in the SEC and got rolled when they finally were confronted with one.
Fromm and Lock aren't decent? And didn't they just beat a Big 12 team.
Yeah Mizzou is a powerhouse...I'll give you Fromm but UGA always finds a way to fuck up.
Sure they beat a Big 12 team...a team that has zero defense...but OU's offense did rough them up a bit.
I think they both had their moments and both did well.
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did not sound very intelligent in his postgame press conference. Wow that was painful to listen to. I can't imagine he's going to do well in the interview process when he meets with teams.
He’s not playing QB.
DG is trying to get rid of dumbasses not add them — and he quit in the 2nd half yesterday. Hard pass.
In Peyton Manning's last collegiate game (as a senior, not a sophomore like Tua) he went 21-31 for a mere 134 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT in a blowout loss to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.
All the flak Tua's getting in this thread is way over the top. He was outplayed by Trevor Lawrence, yes - no big shame there as Lawrence is easily the most impressive college QB since Luck. People are acting as if he played a SB 35 Kerry Collins type game. He made two massive mistakes that hurt his team but made some big throws as well, despite being the victim of several terrible drops by his receivers and Clemson getting away with blatant PI and defensive holding on two huge third downs in the second half.
"The receivers really adjusted on every ball he threw. Because [Trevor Lawrence] didn’t throw great balls. He didn’t throw pinpoint balls. He just threw 50-50 balls. He threw it up.”
That part or did he say something else?
If you remember back to Manning, that final game clouded whether he would be the unanimous #1 pick or not, so it even impacted him
Lets be fair, if we are going to ride Haskins for playign easy teams and playing with superior talent - we can do the same for Tua. Tua really struggled I thought last night. But by no means is he finished as a prospect.
You learn the most about a player as he undergoes adversity.
Lets be fair, if we are going to ride Haskins for playign easy teams and playing with superior talent - we can do the same for Tua. Tua really struggled I thought last night. But by no means is he finished as a prospect.
If we are really being fair, he played on one leg in the Georgia game, had surgery after and played on it last night.
It's been a little over a month after surgery on his ankle and he was out there last night. I'm not saying he gets a pass since he was healthy enough to play but I find it hard to believe he was at 100%.
First Dallas and Philadelphia advance, then Bama gets completely embarrassed in the championship game. What a 3 day "weekend"...
First Dallas and Philadelphia advance, then Bama gets completely embarrassed in the championship game. What a 3 day "weekend"...
I apologize if I'm nit-picking, but I'm not sure Tua is an "excellent prospect". Definitely a quality QB prospect.
There are some size concerns - height and hand - and he's a lefty, which changes things from an offensive perspective since the RT now becomes the de facto LT. And he's been very susceptible to injury.
So there are some legitimate flags.
Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.
Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.
People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.
No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.
Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.
Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.
People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.
No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.
It goes both ways too. Looking forward to back peddling that will occur if/when Lawrence has a particularly shitty game. The jizz spilled on BBI in the past 24 hours over that kid is ridiculous.
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Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.
Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.
Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.
People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.
No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.
It goes both ways too. Looking forward to back peddling that will occur if/when Lawrence has a particularly shitty game. The jizz spilled on BBI in the past 24 hours over that kid is ridiculous.
Yeah, I'm very big on Lawrence but you're right - he's being talked about like Jesus playing QB right now. If he struggles at any point, the same shit will start to happen.
I think both of these guys are going to be fantastic NFL QB's.
Tua's a fantastic prospect; I think Lawrence is better, but we're talking about two outstanding young QBs; if either were in this year's draft, we'd be talking about how we could go and get em.
It's definitely a challenge. Saban loses a huge chunk of his roster yearly and although there's usually a steady flow of 4 and 5 star recruits coming into the pipeline, none of them are automatic. Young kids coming out of HS have to be coached up and have a ton to learn - the transition from HS to a huge CFB program like Alabama is not an easy one.
Last night just felt like one of those nights. I feel like if they played eachother 9 more times, there probably wouldn't be a repeat of last night. Clemson would absolutely beat Alabama a bunch more - but it was just a very atypical game for Bama in so many ways.
Too much confusion in coverage... then Saivion Smith goes down in a crumpled heap with Bama's chances hanging by a thread leading to another easy/long TD.
Saban won't sleep for weeks after last night I'm sure. Just such an un-Saban like performance from the team.
In some ways, I don't mind it. I've grown somewhat tired of my friends whining about how Alabama never loses, how it's not fair, how there's no reason to play the games - just hand them the trophy, etc. Poor Clemson... from the wee little ACC having won two titles in the last 3 years now and going undefeated this season...
They deserved it, though. I do prefer Lawrence to Tua at this point in time. But I also think all the dumping on Tua because of one or two games is getting ridiculous. It's not even like he was dreadful last night - he made a lot of really great throws and completed most of his passes. He just never saw the DB come off his coverage on the first INT and then the 2nd one was just a really stupid mistake. It happens.... I watched Andrew Luck do the same exact thing against Tennessee a couple weeks ago.
Looking forward to next season. This team will have a chip on their shoulders.
Damien Harris is graduating and moving onto the NFL - not sure if Josh Jacobs will stay for his senior year or not.
But Trey Sanders is going to be a beast and Damien going to the draft should open up a lot more work for Najee who needs to be featured way, way more. 121 total touches is not enough for him.
Jerry Jeudy will also be back. Absolute stud WR. Guy will be a star in the NFL. Great wiggle after the catch and a big play, scoring machine.
Hopefully we get a shot at redemption next year like we did last year.
I'm not expecting QWill to be on the board when NYG pick @ 6 - but if he is, I hope they seriously consider him. He can play in any system. He is Aaron Donald lite. Guy is a fucking wrecking ball.
Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.
Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.
People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.
No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.
I didn't/don't think Mayfield's height is ideal either. I know the league is changing, but 6'1" still isn't the prototypical height.
I like Tua. He's been so refreshing for Alabama because he's a real play-making QB. Yet, I've always put some emphasis on metrics. They are mostly reliable.
I know I belabored this point a bit last night earlier in the game, but I hope Saban considers moving back towards a more run-heavy/defense-oriented approach.
It almost felt like once Tua was under center, there became this irresistible urge to play with the new toy and start airing it out like crazy.
Over 100 more passes were thrown this regular season than last year. I know Tua can sling it - I don't want them to waste him, either. But I just feel like they really got away from what makes Alabama what they are and what they've been.
I want to see them pummel teams with the run more and then have Tua take shots downfield. Grind teams down and then beat them with the big play.
This was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. You had dep with his idiotic "Tua shit the bed" nonsense for a night where he made a bunch of good to great throws and a few bad ones. A flawed performance, but not a terrible one by any means. It just looked worse than it was because you had Lawrence on the other side playing pretty much lights out.
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Why is height a question mark? He's the same height as Mayfield.
Handedness shouldn't really be a flag, either. This was by far the best passing offense Alabama has had basically for as long as I've been watching them.
Durability? Sure. That remains to be seen. I wouldn't argue that.
People are too wishy washy on prospects, though. One month ago, nearly everyone here would have bent over backwards to get this guy. Now, he's not that good anymore.
No one wants to stick to their guns on anyone. One day he's great, the next day he's overrated. He'll have a great year next year and then he'll be a guy most people are coveting again.
I didn't/don't think Mayfield's height is ideal either. I know the league is changing, but 6'1" still isn't the prototypical height.
I like Tua. He's been so refreshing for Alabama because he's a real play-making QB. Yet, I've always put some emphasis on metrics. They are mostly reliable.
I don't think it matters much - Wilson is even shorter and has regularly been one of the best QB's in football over the last few years.
Brees' height has never been an issue, either.
Sure, you'd rather have the guy be like 6'5" but 6'1" really isn't a problem in my opinion
A guy Kyler Murray's size? Okay - that's where I become concerned. But Tua is like 20lbs heavier than he is and is also a few inches taller.
Tua may not have "ideal" NFL size, but it won't be a hindrance. He'll be able to make it work just like Mayfield is and like some other guys have been.
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But I also think all the dumping on Tua because of one or two games is getting ridiculous. It's not even like he was dreadful last night - he made a lot of really great throws and completed most of his passes. He just never saw the DB come off his coverage on the first INT and then the 2nd one was just a really stupid mistake. It happens.... I watched Andrew Luck do the same exact thing against Tennessee a couple weeks ago.
This was exactly the point I was trying to make earlier. You had dep with his idiotic "Tua shit the bed" nonsense for a night where he made a bunch of good to great throws and a few bad ones. A flawed performance, but not a terrible one by any means. It just looked worse than it was because you had Lawrence on the other side playing pretty much lights out.
If we're talking about who shit the bed last night, the defense is number one on the list. They could not get stops on 3rd down, there were blown coverages left and right. Pressure wasn't getting home. Guys looked confused, they weren't tackling well. That's not Alabama defense.
Nick Saban is right under it. The fake FG call was horrendous - maybe the worst call I've seen him make for as long as he's been here. The adjustments didn't work after half - the offense just couldn't get out of its own way. Plenty of moving the football. Just stupid, careless mistakes. Penalties, turnovers... slop.
Just very atypical and disappointing. It won't happen again next year.
Sure he made a nice couple throws. But after the first quarter he was nonfactor. A pick 6, and other horrible INT, indecisive, etc...
It doesnt mean he sucks. It doesnt mean he doesnt have a bright future. But he stunk last night. He was considered by many the best college football player this year. He didnt come through.
Yes the defense was terrible too. The kicker sucks. Saban coached a pretty bad game. But Tua played a terrible game.
All year long, it felt like the Bama defense wasn't on a par with their recent defenses despite looking good on paper. That proved to be the case.
He will get healthy this offseason and bounce back next year. I'd be shocked if he's not in the Heisman convo again.
All year long, it felt like the Bama defense wasn't on a par with their recent defenses despite looking good on paper. That proved to be the case.
I'm just not even sure why they ran it at all. Clemson was more or less in a standard defense. They weren't buying Saban letting Bulovas kick the ball from 40 yards away. The play had no chance.
At least run a fake that involves throwing the ball.
The play design on that was just... bad.
He will get healthy this offseason and bounce back next year. I'd be shocked if he's not in the Heisman convo again.
I agree with all of this. He’s still amazing. He just had a bad gsme. I would like to see him fully healthy too. Injuries to players suck.
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it is the end all, be all, but it is fair to judge players on how they handle big games
In Peyton Manning's last collegiate game (as a senior, not a sophomore like Tua) he went 21-31 for a mere 134 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT in a blowout loss to Nebraska in the Orange Bowl.
All the flak Tua's getting in this thread is way over the top. He was outplayed by Trevor Lawrence, yes - no big shame there as Lawrence is easily the most impressive college QB since Luck. People are acting as if he played a SB 35 Kerry Collins type game. He made two massive mistakes that hurt his team but made some big throws as well, despite being the victim of several terrible drops by his receivers and Clemson getting away with blatant PI and defensive holding on two huge third downs in the second half.
I agree here. Tua didn't have a good game, but it wasn't as bad as some make it out to be. All QBs have games like that at times. It's a setback for for Tua, but it will also be a good measuring stick for him. Can he learn from it, and come back better. If so he can raise his stock perhaps even higher than it might have gone otherwise.
Since Clemson took it to Bama in every phase of the game, it really looked more like a bad coaching job on Saban's part and a really good one by Swinney. Bama just didn't look prepared for what Clemson was doing in any phase of the game.
Since Clemson took it to Bama in every phase of the game, it really looked more like a bad coaching job on Saban's part and a really good one by Swinney. Bama just didn't look prepared for what Clemson was doing in any phase of the game.
Score was certainly lopsided, but yards gained in the game were pretty even and thats with Clemson going on a 90 yard drive late in the 4Q when Bama had flown the white flag, and included a 75 yard TD pass that was due to a Bama corner injury on the snap.
Turnovers were huge, some coaching mistakes like the dumb fake FG, the penalty on the 0.5 yard line...
Much like the Clemson-ND game when everyone was quick to say ND didnt belong... sometimes final scores can be a little misleading.
Ten Ton Hammer : 4:50 pm : link : reply
People started talking about Tua like his was god's gift just off last year's title game. Now he looks remotely human and there's a line down the block of people with shovels in hand waiting to throw dirt and repeat the same thing with Lawrence.
Look at how sick people got of Brett Favre. Remember when ESPN had updates on him visiting Minnesota and crap like that? It was such overload that it turned into backlash.
Same for Tebow. The Media incessantly made him out to be some super-human QB. Inundated us with Tebowing. People got sick and tired of it.
Both cases, the player suffered because the Media built things up to an absurd point.
I don't think it matters much - Wilson is even shorter and has regularly been one of the best QB's in football over the last few years.
Brees' height has never been an issue, either.
Sure, you'd rather have the guy be like 6'5" but 6'1" really isn't a problem in my opinion
A guy Kyler Murray's size? Okay - that's where I become concerned. But Tua is like 20lbs heavier than he is and is also a few inches taller.
Tua may not have "ideal" NFL size, but it won't be a hindrance. He'll be able to make it work just like Mayfield is and like some other guys have been.
Mayfield may have finally broken the mold for size not being as critical. Wilson was still a 4th rounder and Brees a 2nd rounder.
However, if Murray opts for the NFL he's going to be a very interesting case study. If the NFL risks a first round pick on him the things have really changed. He's a first round athlete for sure, but his height is a major. major concern at 5'9".