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Itís not all about the defense here lately?

djm : 1/7/2019 10:22 pm
I need to rant. Since 2005, the giants have finished in the upper half of points scored EVERY single season except 2013, 2016 and 2017. From 05-12 the giants virtually hovered at 400 or above save for 2006-2007 and not one average or below season in that run. 2013 rock bottom, then back to above average in 2014 and even better 2015 with 420 pts. This is the giants weíre talking about here. I donít care how many pts are being scored in this era, the giants still put forth their best offensive stretch in fifty plus seasons if not longer. The giants will likely finish upper half next season. They could be even better than just upper half matter of fact Iíd probably bet on them being top 8 or so. But the d.....

How many times during this best ever stretch of nyg offensive football did the defense hold up its end of the bargain for a full season? Not this season. Not last. 2016? Yes. And then we have to go back to 2011 and letís be honest that team gave up a ton of points during the season only to summon one last postseason run to glory. They had a good pass rush but were pretty bad most of that regular season.

Since and including 2005, the defense has finished in the upper good half for points allowed a whopping 3 times. Letís be generous and fair and say itís 5 times if you count 2007 and 2011 but for the record both those teams did not finish upper half pts allowed. Every other season the D has been below average or terrible. And usually itís been terrible. This has to be a historically bad run of nyg defense. Has to be. Even in the 70s the D was competitive if not very good.

Itís all about the defense. For all the hyper Eli analytics and the OL sky is falling hysterics and game plan dissection, the defense doesnít get nearly enough press or discussion. Nick Foles, Eli Manning , Kyle Lauletta or Mike Cherry could lead a resurgent great offensive attack in 2019 but Gettleman and Bettcher needs to break this horrible defensive stretch or itís going to be the same old shit. Enough already. Itís sickening to see Dallas and Philly still playing and itís not the overstated and over analyzed Nick Foles and Prescott thatís leading anything, itís the defense.

I should add  
djm : 1/7/2019 10:27 pm : link
In 2018 the giants offense finished right in the middle for pts scored, 16th. 23rd in pts allowed.

...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 1/7/2019 10:29 pm : link
The Giants' defense has had issues making stops late in games for years. It's a year-in, year-out issue. And we keep changing coordinators.
...  
christian : 1/7/2019 10:39 pm : link
Don't hold you breath on the defense next year unless there is a major infusion of talent.
Yup  
djm : 1/7/2019 10:42 pm : link
Giants havenít used a first round pick on a front seven player since 2010. They havenít devoted many resources to the front seven as well. They have essentially gotten what they paid for. They just traded away two high priced high profile front line defenders and Iím not even factoring in the Apple move or letting guys like kennard and Okwara go.

I guess where Iím going with this is i expect a very very aggressive and busy offseason, especially on the defensive side. Gettleman has made a shit load of subtractions and very few additions to the defensive side of the ball since taking over as GM. Ogletree is really the only big addition to a brand new defense.

They might not go super big game hunting like they did in 2016 but Iíd be shocked if the giants donít make a big splash once again.
RE: ...  
djm : 1/7/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14253369 christian said:
Quote:
Don't hold you breath on the defense next year unless there is a major infusion of talent.


Itís just bothersome how itís almost accepted or washed over by all the Eli talk. For all the shit he takes heís done his part to lead this franchise to winning records. Even the 2016 season bothers me because fans love to bitch about Eliís play that year as if he didnít deserve the Dís help one fucking time in his career. Can the D just carry things One fucking time....
RE: RE: ...  
christian : 1/7/2019 10:58 pm : link
In comment 14253382 djm said:
Quote:
Can the D just carry things One fucking time....


The D did in fact carry the 2016 team. Doesn't change your point, Manning hasn't played in an era of good Giants defense.

Inverse of the 90s Giants, where Hammer, Strahan, Armstead were pretty vocal about carrying the offense.
Good Reason to Go Josh Allen at #6  
Bluesbreaker : 1/7/2019 11:29 pm : link
If Carter starts to get it he can help gets some heat
on the QB thats Giants Football be able to run the ball
sustain drives . Pick up O-line #2 and go defense rest of the way maybe look for a blocking TE since we have multible
late round picks .
The NY Giants defense ranked #2 ...  
Manny in CA : 1/8/2019 12:04 am : link

In team defense.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2016/opp.htm

Boasting wo ALL Pros - Collins & Harrison.

The defensive starting line-up consisted of JPP, Harrison, Vernon, Kennard, ,Sheppard, Casillas, DRC, Collins, Thompson and Jackrabbit; just a bit better than the 2018 team.

Unfortunately, the offense was inferior, ranking 26th ..

The Giants defense  
allstarjim : 1/8/2019 1:52 am : link
in 2016 was awesome, Super Bowl caliber. Unfortunately, we had McAdon't running his pathetic offense.
Look at the last 4 head coaches  
.McL. : 1/8/2019 2:30 am : link
Fassel, Coughlin, McAdoo, Shurmur

All offensive guys.

Look at the list of DCs

Fox, Lynn, Lewis, Spags, Sheridan, Fewell, Spags (again)

Of those Fox was the best, Spags was mostly competent here, the rest were garbage.

If you don't have a defensive HC, then you better have a a really good DC, and the giants have been mostly missing on their choice of DC. The DC is not only critical to the scheme, he is critical in evaluating defensive talent.

We'll see what happens with Bettcher...
The idea that the defense has stunk  
joeinpa : 1/8/2019 5:59 am : link
Has not been lost on me

But that doesnít change the fact that until recently in this era of high profile scoring, the Giants offense recently completed a season plus without scoring 30 points, and never seemingly was able to close out a game with a 4 min offense

Let s not try to spin this as it s been a pretty good or above average offensive team that just couldnít overcome a bottom dwelling defense.
The defense is fixable....  
George from PA : 1/8/2019 6:05 am : link
The DL needs depth
Each year has been different  
idiotsavant : 1/8/2019 6:31 am : link
The 2018 D roster had a number of "this players not making any other roster" types getting significant reps at LB, or oft injured OV, league scrubs mainly at DB (other than jackrabbit), and only two legit DT bigs on the entire roster for most of the long season. As for the 3/4 DE, some useful ones but no stars. Also had traded away D starters.

Luckely, 2019 draft appears strong on Defense. I expect they will draft D in each of the first 4 rounds if not more. If not the whole draft. The scheming is fine. We have no view into position coaching.
A good pass rush  
Gman11 : 1/8/2019 7:34 am : link
can hide other flaws in a defense. The Eagles DBs the last few years haven't exactly been all-pro. Same with the Cowboys. You get pressure on the QB and either get sacks or force him to throw the ball sooner than he wants to.
Great job djm... it is something  
JCin332 : 1/8/2019 7:50 am : link
I have been harping about a lot over the years...

Defense needs to be fixed, no doubt. But you canít gloss  
Jim in Hoboken : 1/8/2019 7:55 am : link
over the fact that itís often gassed by the second quarter with all 3-and-outs. A lot of the points were often scored in the blowouts when we were down big and the other team in prevent.
The most persistent and glaring weakness....  
BamaBlue : 1/8/2019 8:11 am : link
is the defense and specifically linebackers. The Giants have not had a dominant linebacker since Aaron Pierce. There has been modest effort on the DL and a sincere effort to improve the defensive backs... crickets on linebackers for too long.

The next time an opposing tight end gets shut down by the Giants defense will be the day when the Giants finally pay attention to their inferior linebackers...
They've failed to draft the key pieces to fit their scheme well  
JonC : 1/8/2019 8:14 am : link
There hasn't been a talented pass rushing DE who fit their 4-3 since JPP. Now they've switched to the 3-4 but it might take time to find the OLBs to become the motor for the new scheme.

I thought the front would be better against the run, but didn't see enough edge talent coming into 2018. They need to fix that, and probably without spending the inflated open market dollars to get the ball rolling, at least.
The D doesn't have the talent or the play makers  
Beer Man : 1/8/2019 8:17 am : link
1. There seems to be no one capable of providing consistent pressure on opposing QBs

2. Other than Jack Rabbit, there is no one all that great in pass coverage

3. The LB core is weak

If you can't pressure opposing QBs, and can't hold coverage, your going to loose a lot of games, particularly the close ones
Given what sounds like the best front 7  
idiotsavant : 1/8/2019 8:23 am : link
Draft

maybe ever (who knows, not looking, but the lists),

given that we only have two legit bigs (Hill and Tomlinson) up front given the lbs mostly we're not even playing in position or are just not very good, or simply don't fit scheme, or toast due to too old, or often injured, it would be madness not to draft into the strength of the draft.

That means maybe x3 in the first 60 picks or so.
Fans seem typically QB and wr obsessed..biased..impatient...  
idiotsavant : 1/8/2019 8:28 am : link
My 2cents would be an all D draft.

+ The very best free agent center.

Maybe a mid-late round giant run blocking tight end as a nod to the barks.

Maybe a right tackle.... Maybe

Then see you next time
Fans seem typically QB and wr obsessed..biased..impatient...  
idiotsavant : 1/8/2019 8:28 am : link
My 2cents would be an all D draft.

+ The very best free agent center.

Maybe a mid-late round giant run blocking tight end as a nod to the barks.

Maybe a right tackle.... Maybe

Then see you next time
It has been a lot of  
fkap : 1/8/2019 8:44 am : link
swing and a miss with the defensive draft. FA hasn't been much better.
...  
christian : 1/8/2019 9:06 am : link
Fixing the defense will come from the same finite pool of resources as fixing the offense.

The Giants need long-term solutions at DE, edge rusher, LB, SS, FS, and CB.

I suspect Gettleman will allocate resources with value in mind, which might come at the expense of the offense and will certainly impact Manning's value and future.
The notion that defense was gassed  
dep026 : 1/8/2019 9:09 am : link
By the 2nd quarter is hilarious. People keep stressing this yet in many games we had the TOP advantage.

You know why the defense is gassed? Cause they stink and couldnít get off the field!!!!
Reese virtually ignored LBs in the draft for his entire tenure  
since1925 : 1/8/2019 11:01 am : link
It's one thing to de-value a position in the draft but that was a ridiculous oversight.
The idea that the defense was gassed ...  
Manny in CA : 1/8/2019 12:13 pm : link

I believed in that in 2016, when we lost games because the offense couldn't do their part.

In 2018, the team had a lot of elite skill players on offense, but an inferior O-line and an under-manned defense - An Evil brew.
...  
christian : 1/8/2019 12:40 pm : link
Tale of two seasons -- over the first 8 games, 5 out of 8 games the defense allowed fewer than 13 points in the first half and the offense scored fewer than 10.

The Giants offense scored more than 13 points once in the first eight games.

Point being the season was essentially over at 1-7, the GM traded two starters on the defense around that time, and the defense really fell apart.
Guess we'll never know ...  
Manny in CA : 1/8/2019 1:33 pm : link

What really happened in the cases pf Apple & Snacks ?

I thought Apple had turned it around, was it that he was caught laughing when he got beat on one play ?

And Snacks had one bad game ...

And that was it - "out the door"; sure it's a sour taste losing, but "throw the baby out with the bath water" ? Isn't that kind of melodramatic ?

I think Snacks was shown the door  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 1/8/2019 3:33 pm : link
because he was making a ton of money and they asked him to be a Captain and lead and he declined. He was also starting to break down.
Every time you change the DC, it takes at least one half season  
Ivan15 : 1/8/2019 5:49 pm : link
to get ďitĒ.

So therís that.
Doesn't matter who the quarterback is  
Marty866b : 1/8/2019 6:14 pm : link
If we don't TOTALLY rebuild this defense. How many players on the defense does anyone want to return? Truth be told though there are a few we'd like to keep, there isn't one single defender that anyone would get very upset if he wasn't back next season. How many games over the last 7-8 seasons did the defense make a stop with the game on the line?
RE: ...  
TD : 1/8/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14254173 christian said:
Quote:
Tale of two seasons -- over the first 8 games, 5 out of 8 games the defense allowed fewer than 13 points in the first half and the offense scored fewer than 10.

The Giants offense scored more than 13 points once in the first eight games.

Point being the season was essentially over at 1-7, the GM traded two starters on the defense around that time, and the defense really fell apart.


This x 1000
RE: Defense needs to be fixed, no doubt. But you canít gloss  
djm : 1/8/2019 7:54 pm : link
In comment 14253658 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
over the fact that itís often gassed by the second quarter with all 3-and-outs. A lot of the points were often scored in the blowouts when we were down big and the other team in prevent.


I donít wanna hear it with all due respect. The D has sucked every year here save for a few seasons and even when they didnít suck they werenít exactly dominant except for 2016.

If the D was ravens good these last 15 seasons anyone want to bet that Eli makes the playoffs many more times than he did? Itís Eli this Beckham that OL this and no talking about the D. This is the worst stretch of nyg defense EVER. Ever! Weíre talking about ten years of futility here.

My point is for all the talk about Eli and the oline this offense has done its part more often than not. God forbid the D carried the day more than one season out of the last ten. Itís sickening.
I should say though  
djm : 1/8/2019 7:57 pm : link
I have no problems with what DG did this past calendar year. Perhaps go back and not sign a guy like Martin but even he is relatively cheap and at least provides depth. Judging by all the cost cutting moves It appears that DG wants to build a defense with staying power.
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