With the team's resources via Free Agency and the NFL Draft, it would be hard to address all the team needs in just one off-season. With the draft, you always go with best player available but if there are similar values on players, teams might lean one way if it addresses team needs.
There are many different possible ways the team could move but for this scenario, these are the only options to select from. If you had the ability to sign up for one of these options, which would you select...
1) Address the Offensive Line first and then defense: Use high end draft picks and sign free agents to get a new Center, RG, RT and a solid two way TE who can help out with the blocking and also be a threat in the passing game to compliment Engram.
In this scenario, Eli returns and given better pass protection, is able to improve on his production given the skill weapons the Giants have on offense. Finding the QB of the future would be pushed to 2020 which looks to have a better QB class than this year.
2) Address the Defense first and then offense: Giants spend big in free agency and use high end draft picks to get James Bettcher the weapons on defense to successfully run his defense.
In this scenario, Eli and the offense played a bit better in the second half of the season and ended up with a 4-4 record. Giants bring back Jamon Brown, maybe bring in cheap vets to contend with Halapio, Pulley and Chad Wheeler but overall the offense is similar to what it was this year. Finding the QB of the future would be pushed to 2020 which looks to have a better QB class than this year.
3) Address the QB of the Future in this years 2019 NFL Draft: Giants pick 6th overall in 2019 draft and would be in position to address that need. Especially since the 5 teams picking ahead of them, four are already set with young QBs, Cardinals (Rosen), 49ers (Garoppolo), Jets (Darnold) and Bucs (Winston, since their GM said he's returning as their starter).
In this scenario, only the Raiders are in a clear need at QB with Gruden wanting to move on from Carr. Not to mention how deep this draft is with defensive players, this might cause some of the QBs to drop down a bit. Not to mention the Giants might also be in position to trade up for a QB if they really are sold on one like the Jets did with Darnold. Which would most likely cost the Giants all their high end draft picks this year and possibly another second round pick in 2020 draft. (As an example, Jets gave up three 2nd round picks to move up from 6 to 3 last year)
Which of these Giants Off-Season strategies would you favor?
A strategy based on positional upgrades is fine, but is the talent actually going to be out there or not.
A strategy based on positional upgrades is fine, but is the talent actually going to be out there or not.
But to "fix the defense" they need to add an edge rusher, and there's little to no chance that the top ERs (Lawrence and Clowney) will hit the open market. I think the CB depth on this team is adequate, especially if they bring back BW Webb on a cheap deal. But Jenkins + Haley + Beal, etc is a workable group. So the big upgrades would be at ILB and FS which aren't typically "break-the-bank" type players.
Offensively, the only places I'm spending FA money is C-RG-RT, but unfortunately I think they'll look to bring back Brown and then make offers to Pulley and Halapio (both are RFAs).
So via the draft (assuming no QBs to their liking), I'm looking edge rusher in the 1st hopefully and then a RT in the 2nd, hopefully someone with the ability to slide over to LT in 2-3 years.
With the 4th/5th round picks, I'm looking for LB depth, OL depth (hopefully push Pulley/Halapio and/or Brown), DB/S depth and maybe a blocking TE with some athleticism and upside as a pass catcher. Though TE is only a need if they choose to cut Ellison for cap reasons.
Why do we need to trade with Buffalo to get Josh Allen.... he may fall to us in this draft?
Oh you mean, trade 2 first round picks for a guy we didnt want last year. Makes total sense.
…#1.
A kick ass O-line will be our best defense, controlling the clock and the entire rhythm of the game.
If that happens, all our defenders will be perfectly positioned: on the bench enjoying the game!
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then sit back and enjoy the next ten years of Giants football
Why do we need to trade with Buffalo to get Josh Allen.... he may fall to us in this draft?
Oh you mean, trade 2 first round picks for a guy we didnt want last year. Makes total sense.
Josh Allen out of Kentucky is not making it to 6.
That's a guarantee.
If Haskins isn't available then I would prefer option #1. Get the oline squared away and then focus almost solely on rebuilding the defense.
I lean toward 2 but with the proviso that the O-line isn't just some cheap guys. The Giants need at LEAST one rock-solid FA or draft choice, center or on the right side.
A roster, or a portion of a roster, is never a finished product. You can't just say, "We're all set in Area A, so now let's go get help for Area B." The Giants are a bad team. They should be looking for help wherever they can guided by the goals and objectives they've established for what type of team they're trying to be.
There are two great quotes I always try to keep in mind when thinking about this topic:
John Madden: "In this league you're always moving forward or backward. You are never standing still."
Bill Belichick: "We aren't accumulating talent. We're building a team."
I would be tempted to grab ORT Williams with #6 if he is there to really upgrade the OL for both the run and pass protect prospective no matter who the qb may be.
DG seemed to be high on the return of Halapio to compete at C
So I think I would spend the majority of my draft picks after the first round on D.
ER and Safety really cry out for help.
Speedy lbs and corners can be had.
I suspect Eli returns for one last run and to fulfill the last year of his contract.
Taking this approach pushes off the qb decision until next year but optimizes the Giants prospects of filling many of the visible holes on the D.
This approach would provide the team with a very competitive team coming into the 2020 season. The salary cap should be more manageable by then which would allow DG maximum flexibility in addressing the qb situation via the draft, FA or trade.
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then sit back and enjoy the next ten years of Giants football
Why do we need to trade with Buffalo to get Josh Allen.... he may fall to us in this draft?
Oh you mean, trade 2 first round picks for a guy we didnt want last year. Makes total sense.
You may not have wanted him, but Shurmur did.
But they also have several huge decisions:
Eli - potential cap savings = $17M
Vernon - potential cap savings = $11.5M
Jenkins - potential cap savings = $7.75M
Ogletree - potential cap savings = $6.5M
Ellison - potential cap savings = $3.25M
Martin - potential cap savings = $1.68M
Stewart - potential cap savings = $2.5M
Barwin - potential cap savings = $1.5M
Potential Total Savings: $51.7M
The potential ~$80M in cap space would put them among the top 5-8 teams (depending on other moves).
Now I doubt all of these players will be cut, but they can basically create enough room to sign anyone and I'd argue the bottom 3 could be cut tomorrow and no one would notice.
DL
FS
CB depth
LB
WR (true #2)
OL
DL
FS
CB depth
LB
WR (true #2)
But they also have several huge decisions:
Eli - potential cap savings = $17M
Vernon - potential cap savings = $11.5M
Jenkins - potential cap savings = $7.75M
Ogletree - potential cap savings = $6.5M
Ellison - potential cap savings = $3.25M
Martin - potential cap savings = $1.68M
Stewart - potential cap savings = $2.5M
Barwin - potential cap savings = $1.5M
Potential Total Savings: $51.7M
The potential ~$80M in cap space would put them among the top 5-8 teams (depending on other moves).
Now I doubt all of these players will be cut, but they can basically create enough room to sign anyone and I'd argue the bottom 3 could be cut tomorrow and no one would notice.
I don't know why we discuss the cap savings with Eli. Any vet QB we will sign will probably be at least 17 mill. SO there really isn't a savings because the QB position will have to be funded to approximately that amount anyway. And any vet who signs for 17 mill is going to be middle of the road at best and learning a new offense, so there is a more than likely chance that QB will be worse than what Eli was this year.
1. Lauletta is the starter
2. Draft a QB and make him the starter
3. Acquire a backup QB currently on another roster that is making less than $1M. These guys are all over the league. Here are some names to start:
Jacoby Brissett
Kyle Sloter
DeShone Kizer
Mason Rudolph
Josh Dobbs
Jeff Driskel
Taysom Hill
Nick Mullens
The point is, there are many options. It's just going to require some creativity and the front office getting out of its comfort zone for once.
The options I've listed above could see us enter 2019 with a drastically reduced QB cap hit, which is a huge team building advantage.
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which is roughly middle of the pack. Figure $15M for draft picks and an in-season margin, so they'd have ~$15M or so to spend right off the bat with Collins the only big UFA. A long term deal for him could be as little as $5-6M against the 2019 cap (see Beckham).
But they also have several huge decisions:
Eli - potential cap savings = $17M
Vernon - potential cap savings = $11.5M
Jenkins - potential cap savings = $7.75M
Ogletree - potential cap savings = $6.5M
Ellison - potential cap savings = $3.25M
Martin - potential cap savings = $1.68M
Stewart - potential cap savings = $2.5M
Barwin - potential cap savings = $1.5M
Potential Total Savings: $51.7M
The potential ~$80M in cap space would put them among the top 5-8 teams (depending on other moves).
Now I doubt all of these players will be cut, but they can basically create enough room to sign anyone and I'd argue the bottom 3 could be cut tomorrow and no one would notice.
I don't know why we discuss the cap savings with Eli. Any vet QB we will sign will probably be at least 17 mill. SO there really isn't a savings because the QB position will have to be funded to approximately that amount anyway. And any vet who signs for 17 mill is going to be middle of the road at best and learning a new offense, so there is a more than likely chance that QB will be worse than what Eli was this year.
1st let me say I ONLY want Eli back act a reduced rate but as stated a vet that may be able to do something will cost and set us back so best bet is to bite the bullet fix all things non-QB and ride the INITIAL plan Eli finishes the contract out or retire.
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I know many say that there aren't a lot of QB options out there, but that's not true. I see 3 viable ways to start 2019:
1. Lauletta is the starter
2. Draft a QB and make him the starter
3. Acquire a backup QB currently on another roster that is making less than $1M. These guys are all over the league. Here are some names to start:
Jacoby Brissett
Kyle Sloter
DeShone Kizer
Mason Rudolph
Josh Dobbs
Jeff Driskel
Taysom Hill
Nick Mullens
The point is, there are many options. It's just going to require some creativity and the front office getting out of its comfort zone for once.
The options I've listed above could see us enter 2019 with a drastically reduced QB cap hit, which is a huge team building advantage.
Most of those QBs fall into two categories -- not available (eg Hill and Rudolph and likely Mullens) or guys you have absolutely no idea whether they would be better than Eli or significantly worse. To simply say, "get these guys. It's that easy," is IMO whitewashing things
After the bottom 3, he's the first I'd cut. Average ILB being paid like a top 3 one.
Jenkins would probably be the hardest cut for me and would come down to how he is in the locker room. But he's still an above average to good CB and its a premium position.
2nd hardest cut is Ellison. Solid 2 way player, but he's overpaid for what he brings.
There is no sense forcing the QB issue unless you absolutely love the attributes of your target.
Because of SB's talent, we should know that we are going to be facing a steady diet of 8 in the box and cover 1 on early downs. QB must have the arm to go over the top, and the ability to avoid the rush of those 8 who are probably coming across as soon as they read pass.
Needless to say, I am not a Lauletta fan, nor am I a fan of a front office which would draft him after taking SB as a foundational pick.
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which is roughly middle of the pack. Figure $15M for draft picks and an in-season margin, so they'd have ~$15M or so to spend right off the bat with Collins the only big UFA. A long term deal for him could be as little as $5-6M against the 2019 cap (see Beckham).
But they also have several huge decisions:
Eli - potential cap savings = $17M
Vernon - potential cap savings = $11.5M
Jenkins - potential cap savings = $7.75M
Ogletree - potential cap savings = $6.5M
Ellison - potential cap savings = $3.25M
Martin - potential cap savings = $1.68M
Stewart - potential cap savings = $2.5M
Barwin - potential cap savings = $1.5M
Potential Total Savings: $51.7M
The potential ~$80M in cap space would put them among the top 5-8 teams (depending on other moves).
Now I doubt all of these players will be cut, but they can basically create enough room to sign anyone and I'd argue the bottom 3 could be cut tomorrow and no one would notice.
I don't know why we discuss the cap savings with Eli. Any vet QB we will sign will probably be at least 17 mill. SO there really isn't a savings because the QB position will have to be funded to approximately that amount anyway. And any vet who signs for 17 mill is going to be middle of the road at best and learning a new offense, so there is a more than likely chance that QB will be worse than what Eli was this year.
1. I included him for reference
2. IF they cut him, I'd personally be against bringing in a vet unless it was a Fitzpatrick like deal ($3-4M IIRC).
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I know many say that there aren't a lot of QB options out there, but that's not true. I see 3 viable ways to start 2019:
1. Lauletta is the starter
2. Draft a QB and make him the starter
3. Acquire a backup QB currently on another roster that is making less than $1M. These guys are all over the league. Here are some names to start:
Jacoby Brissett
Kyle Sloter
DeShone Kizer
Mason Rudolph
Josh Dobbs
Jeff Driskel
Taysom Hill
Nick Mullens
The point is, there are many options. It's just going to require some creativity and the front office getting out of its comfort zone for once.
The options I've listed above could see us enter 2019 with a drastically reduced QB cap hit, which is a huge team building advantage.
Except trading for those players costs picks (a huge team building advantage). Plus they are closer to UFA than a rookie would be, thus minimizing the benefit of the reduced QB cap hit.
If we're trading a 4th rounder because we like one of those QBs, I'm fine with that.
Like I said above, the point is there are options beyond paying Eli or his vet replacement $20M+. I'm not in favor of cutting Eli just to pay Flacco or Foles.
Brisset, Driskel, Sloter, Hill, Mullens have 1 year remaining.
Kizer, Dobbs 2 years
Rudolph is likely the heir to Big Ben
So you'd be giving up a pick for a QB that may not be any better than Lauletta (price would be a lot more than a 4th if they had proven anything), and not even gaining several years of cost control with most of them...
Brisset, Driskel, Sloter, Hill, Mullens have 1 year remaining.
Kizer, Dobbs 2 years
Rudolph is likely the heir to Big Ben
So you'd be giving up a pick for a QB that may not be any better than Lauletta (price would be a lot more than a 4th if they had proven anything), and not even gaining several years of cost control with most of them...
Even if a guy comes in and plays well for a year, is he going to command the $20M premium on the open market? Seems doubtful. And even if he does, we get a comp pick to make up for the one we traded for him. Seems low risk/high reward.
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In comment 14253985 GeofromNJ said:
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then sit back and enjoy the next ten years of Giants football
Why do we need to trade with Buffalo to get Josh Allen.... he may fall to us in this draft?
Oh you mean, trade 2 first round picks for a guy we didnt want last year. Makes total sense.
Josh Allen out of Kentucky is not making it to 6.
That's a guarantee.
Agreed, and I would be happy if the Giants moved up a slot or two to grab him. He is going to be a top 5 pass rusher for many many years
Need a top money RT or Edge rusher added the other taken #6. Then need to spend on a Saftey Collins or other.
after that its about fit. Including Jamon Brown we should be able to add 3 or 4 guys to fill some holes then focus on the draft.
The Giants' critical needs on the defense are getting corners and rushing the passer. Sure, another athletic cover linebacker would be great, but a pass rushing 3-4 DE, an edge rusher, and 2 more DBs could get this team to a level where they can really compete for the division.
They need to try and build what the Bears have with that defense. I'm not saying go back to a 4-3 but just playmakers at every level.
Should be a lot of mid-round picks with which to invest on some OL help.
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at least hope not.
Brisset, Driskel, Sloter, Hill, Mullens have 1 year remaining.
Kizer, Dobbs 2 years
Rudolph is likely the heir to Big Ben
So you'd be giving up a pick for a QB that may not be any better than Lauletta (price would be a lot more than a 4th if they had proven anything), and not even gaining several years of cost control with most of them...
Even if a guy comes in and plays well for a year, is he going to command the $20M premium on the open market? Seems doubtful. And even if he does, we get a comp pick to make up for the one we traded for him. Seems low risk/high reward.
Getting a comp pick for him means you're starting over in your search, which seems short sighted/idiotic.
And plenty of guys have gotten $20M+ after 1 season of strong play (or less). Foles, Garoppolo, Bortles to name a few recent ones.
I wouldn't force the issue with QB, mainly, because you don't know who simply becomes available (draft or otherwise) or who rises up the charts out of no where.
Between Phil Simms and Eli Manning, we went nearly 10 years but still got to a SB.
Because of SB's talent, we should know that we are going to be facing a steady diet of 8 in the box and cover 1 on early downs. QB must have the arm to go over the top, and the ability to avoid the rush of those 8 who are probably coming across as soon as they read pass.
There are some interesting options for Edge rusher (Lawrence, Ansah, Matthews) but signing any of them will all cost arm/leg and eat the rest of the cap space.
Hoping/wishing the front office can find diamonds in the rough in FA for pennies on the dollar or hit on every draft pick is not really a plan. Giants need to rip the band-aid off and overhaul the roster to become competitive in 2020 and beyond. Cut bait with guys like Stewart, Martin, and Vernon. Draft QB, OL, ER and depth on both lines. Keep improving the team cohesion in 2019 and make moves for key FA in 2020.
There are some interesting options for Edge rusher (Lawrence, Ansah, Matthews) but signing any of them will all cost arm/leg and eat the rest of the cap space.
Hoping/wishing the front office can find diamonds in the rough in FA for pennies on the dollar or hit on every draft pick is not really a plan. Giants need to rip the band-aid off and overhaul the roster to become competitive in 2020 and beyond. Cut bait with guys like Stewart, Martin, and Vernon. Draft QB, OL, ER and depth on both lines. Keep improving the team cohesion in 2019 and make moves for key FA in 2020.
Jon Halapio will be the starting C next season ....barring he is not healed ... they basically alluded to this multiple times
In the draft I’d think long and hard about going ER-ER picks 1 and 2. Josh Allen or Ferrell would be my pick at 6. Pick 2 depends on who is still there obviously, but if a guy like Zach Allen or Polite falls I’d pull the trigger in round 2.
The strength of the draft is DL/ER, so draft to the strength of the draft. Use the rest of the picks to fill out Safety, OL depth, LB, etc.
GeofromNJ : 11:27 am : link : reply
then sit back and enjoy the next ten years of Giants football
But I think you actually mean it. You had a similar nugget of shit in a different thread:
GeofromNJ : 1/3/2019 1:11 am : link : reply
otherwise, he's untouchable.
Wow.
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I know many say that there aren't a lot of QB options out there, but that's not true. I see 3 viable ways to start 2019:
1. Lauletta is the starter
2. Draft a QB and make him the starter
3. Acquire a backup QB currently on another roster that is making less than $1M. These guys are all over the league. Here are some names to start:
Jacoby Brissett
Kyle Sloter
DeShone Kizer
Mason Rudolph
Josh Dobbs
Jeff Driskel
Taysom Hill
Nick Mullens
The point is, there are many options. It's just going to require some creativity and the front office getting out of its comfort zone for once.
The options I've listed above could see us enter 2019 with a drastically reduced QB cap hit, which is a huge team building advantage.
I agree with you that its an option. And it would likely set the team up with a nice choice in a QB rich draft in 2020.
The problem is, is it realistic from a business perspective. THere is still a large camp of Eli fans that get alienated, and then there is the fact that you have given up on the 2019 season, which will alienate another group of fans who think that the team should be in the playoffs next year. Plus it does hurt the morale of some players. So is it a worthwhile business decision? Clearly the team will make less money in 2019 than it would otherwise. You can argue that it would be made up in the long term, but as much as I like to think that way, most business leaders think 1 quarter at a time.
I contend that it is unlikely that more than 3 or 4 you quality OL hit FA just like last year. Their teams will resign them first. OL has become a premium position. Teams don't let them go, which is why we should resign Brown.
ER are also not likely to be available and any that are will cost more than we can afford.
Sign or Franchise Collins.
Sign a FS, this is not a brak the bank position. Shouldn't be hard.
Sign some CBs hoping to find 1 or 2 starts. Same at LB.
Draft:
Generally speaking go BPA in rounds 1 & 2
(excluding WR, RB, and TE)
We should tilt our board a bit so that all things being equal, we prioritize ER, OT, and OC.
After round 2 (we don't have a 3 right now), prioritize OL, LB, NT, FS, CB.