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Jonah Williams

adamg : 1/8/2019 12:58 pm
For as bad as Bama got beat, I think Williams should be in strong consideration at 6. A top tackle prospect is exactly what we need as a team. I don't think there's a single position that we could improve as much as RT with a single pick. I had started a Deointe Thompson thread a while back, but he hasn't been impressing me as much lately and that was before we had lost out and were picking top ten. I like him too, but as far as high floor and position of need, I think Williams is the guy to go after.
I agreed with this until I saw the game last night.  
robbieballs2003 : 1/8/2019 1:03 pm : link
We should have better options at 6.
I'm not certain he's a LT worth the blue chip pick  
JonC : 1/8/2019 1:04 pm : link
he's on the small side, suspect his roster listing is a little overstated.
I didn't focus on him too much  
lawguy9801 : 1/8/2019 1:06 pm : link
but that Clemson DL blew him the f up on that one play. Granted, it's unfair and you have to look at his whole body of work, but that's the image I now have of him.
Id be fine with him at 6  
Capt. Don : 1/8/2019 1:06 pm : link
but I think there will be a 2nd round tackle available that offers better value.
RE: I didn't focus on him too much  
robbieballs2003 : 1/8/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14254212 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
but that Clemson DL blew him the f up on that one play. Granted, it's unfair and you have to look at his whole body of work, but that's the image I now have of him.


It was more than one play and Alabama started giving him help. He didn't lose every battle but enough to alter my original perception of him where I thought he was a legit candidate at 6.
Iíve seen info on him that heís got Justin Pugh T-Rex arms  
The_Boss : 1/8/2019 1:10 pm : link
And might project better at OG. Do we really want to pick that at 6?
Jon, is he as good as Scherff who was taken  
Big Blue '56 : 1/8/2019 1:11 pm : link
5th or 6th by the Skins a few years ago as an ORT?
He sounds like a great pick  
Beer Man : 1/8/2019 1:20 pm : link
But there are other players that grade out as high (or higher) that should be available at #6. Given that this is a deep draft for OL, there maybe better options at #6 for the Giants to consider (ER or CB). Some of the talking heads have been saying there should be good value on the OL in rounds 2 thru 4.
He's technically sound with quick feet.  
RAIN : 1/8/2019 1:23 pm : link
Arm length will be key for him. He's a safe pick.
RE: Jon, is he as good as Scherff who was taken  
JonC : 1/8/2019 1:27 pm : link
In comment 14254222 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
5th or 6th by the Skins a few years ago as an ORT?


Different players. Scherff was a road grader who belonged inside, JW is more about technique and movement on the edge, imv.
I think he will be in the mix  
dep026 : 1/8/2019 1:28 pm : link
but I see Oliver/Gary as the guy DG is going to go after.
I would rather have Ferrell at pick 6  
Rjanyg : 1/8/2019 1:33 pm : link
We can get a good RT with our 2nd round pick.
Greg  
Jon in NYC : 1/8/2019 1:36 pm : link
Little seems to have a higher upside of the OLs.

I still think they will try to get a pass rusher.
He was hilarious  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 1:37 pm : link
in Superbad
RE: RE: Jon, is he as good as Scherff who was taken  
lawguy9801 : 1/8/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14254245 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14254222 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


5th or 6th by the Skins a few years ago as an ORT?



Different players. Scherff was a road grader who belonged inside, JW is more about technique and movement on the edge, imv.


Sounds like a Reese/Ross special. No thanks.
With our inability to draft OL  
AcesUp : 1/8/2019 1:42 pm : link
With the recent exception being Hernandez, I don't have a problem going with a "safe" OL pick at 6. This doesn't look like the strongest draft at the top, it's light on QBs with what looks like 2 consensus blue chippers in Bosa and QW and probably another 1-2 as the process plays out. If we can't address QB and we're picking at the top of a flat red chip player pool, safely addressing what has been a hole on your roster since McKenzie regressed is fine by me.
RE: He was hilarious  
Jon in NYC : 1/8/2019 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14254268 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
in Superbad


Not sure I get the joke other than both their names are Jonah?
Few things on Williams  
Sy'56 : 1/8/2019 1:43 pm : link
The "Bama staff talked him up before the year. The best OL this regime as had on the outside.

Early on, he had a Hoe Thomas look. Easy body control and balance, was always able to maintain position.

As the year went on, I saw some core strength and length issues arise. Nothing alarming, but I noted them.

He didn't tend the year that strong and his level of competition increased as the year went. Add that to the fact I know for a fact some teams are looking at him as an OG/OT hybrid, I get a little nervous viewing him as a top tier LT prospect.

He may be closer to Justin Pugh then Joe Thomas. Also, I think a few teams before NYG will look at him pretty hard.
RE: RE: He was hilarious  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14254273 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14254268 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


in Superbad



Not sure I get the joke other than both their names are Jonah?


Isn't that actor's name Jonah Williams?
RE: RE: RE: He was hilarious  
dep026 : 1/8/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14254276 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 14254273 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 14254268 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


in Superbad



Not sure I get the joke other than both their names are Jonah?



Isn't that actor's name Jonah Williams?


Jonah Hill
RE: RE: RE: RE: He was hilarious  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14254280 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14254276 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 14254273 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 14254268 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


in Superbad



Not sure I get the joke other than both their names are Jonah?



Isn't that actor's name Jonah Williams?



Jonah Hill


Ahh, well then I agree, this joke is not funny.

delete!
The consensus strength of this draft is interior defense and LB.  
TMS : 1/8/2019 1:58 pm : link
Thats where where we will be going if we stay at #6. Unless DG gets a deal he cannot refuse. We should be getting an instant starter at this spot. DG has shown his affinity for defense when he drafted for Carolina. MO
There is no way on January 8th  
pjcas18 : 1/8/2019 2:08 pm : link
anyone can say with certainty "this is where we will be going if we stay at 6" for a draft that takes place late April.

post-season bowl/all-star games, combine, private workouts.

You have literally no idea what position or player the Giants will be taking in a late April draft on January 8th.

Especially when free agency hasn't taken place.

Last year this time, the Giants were a lock to take Rosen. Darnold to CLE was a slam dunk, etc.

Things will become clearer after the all-star/post season bowls, combine, free agency and private workouts.
He seems undersized for the right side  
Larry from WV : 1/8/2019 2:10 pm : link
I think we could get a RT or guard in round 2 or 4. I'd rather get a veteran like Daryl Williams for the right tackle spot, grab get Cody Ford in the 2nd round and grab the top defensive player or Haskins in the first.
NO WAY  
PaulN : 1/8/2019 2:24 pm : link
We must add a pass rusher here, we can address this in free agency and in the second round.
RE: With our inability to draft OL  
BillKo : 1/8/2019 2:27 pm : link
In comment 14254272 AcesUp said:
Quote:
With the recent exception being Hernandez, I don't have a problem going with a "safe" OL pick at 6. This doesn't look like the strongest draft at the top, it's light on QBs with what looks like 2 consensus blue chippers in Bosa and QW and probably another 1-2 as the process plays out. If we can't address QB and we're picking at the top of a flat red chip player pool, safely addressing what has been a hole on your roster since McKenzie regressed is fine by me.


Not sure why you are mixing what Reese did in with what DG does.

New regime, they don't care what has happened here over the last 10 years. They are entering Year Two and need to do it their way..........
Jonah  
Percy : 1/8/2019 2:28 pm : link
I asked this very question in an oblique way in my comment near the end to the Alabama-Clemson game thread,I was glad to see it continued here. As you can see, I thought before the game that the Giants could trade down to get him, if they liked him -- that he would not go as high as the sixth pick. Now, from what is said here, maybe the Giants shouldn't be interested in him at all. Pending the Combines and more, perhaps enough said about Jonah.
Bill  
AcesUp : 1/8/2019 2:33 pm : link
Largely the same scouts. Same guys that evaluated Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Beatty, etc are still here. New regime is working off their info.
I'd be perfectly happy with him, he's a technician  
barens : 1/8/2019 2:51 pm : link
who doesn't make many mistakes, and we could use someone like that right about now.
We'll know for sure after the combine, but I read that he's 6'5 and  
Ira : 1/8/2019 3:05 pm : link
his arm length is about average. But the important things are that he has very good technique and quick feet.
I'm no scout  
Johnny5 : 1/8/2019 3:14 pm : link
I like him, but I don't think he is worth a top 10 pick. There are too many defensive picks I like ahead of him, I would much rather go defense at pick 1I think we would get much better value on OL with the 2nd pick.
Jonah Williams  
WillVAB : 1/8/2019 3:18 pm : link
In a way heís the anti-Flowers. His technique is sound and he understands angles. My concern would be how he matches up physically and athletically with elite ERís in the pros.

He probably ends up a solid OL in the pros but I think the Giants can do better at 6. I think there will be comparable OL to be had later in the draft.
RE: Jon, is he as good as Scherff who was taken  
Boy Cord : 1/8/2019 4:17 pm : link
In comment 14254222 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
5th or 6th by the Skins a few years ago as an ORT?


Scherff has never played tackle to the best of my knowledge. Yes, the Skins hoped he was an RT but knew during his first training camp he was a G. A damn good G, but a G.
It's not like we're penciling in a top tier RG anyway  
adamg : 1/8/2019 4:51 pm : link
If he is limited to being a great guard rather than a great tackle, obviously that's not ideal for a 6th overall pick, but it wouldn't be the worst case scenario.

Of course, the goal in picking him at 6 is that he'd hold down RT until Solder's contract is done and then move over to LT.
Sorry, If we needed a LT I'd consider him  
edavisiii : 1/8/2019 5:03 pm : link
I don't think You don't draft a RT that High. Most of the top 10 RTs were 3rd to mid round picks. If there is no QB they want draft front 7 people at 6 and 38. RT and FS in the 4th, then get some OL depth, a CB and whoever falls with the rest.

Look at the Seahawks, three out of the 4 Legion of boom crew was drafted in the 5th and 6th round.
value  
bc4life : 1/8/2019 5:58 pm : link
is better at DE or edge at 6
RE: Sorry, If we needed a LT I'd consider him  
adamg : 1/8/2019 6:13 pm : link
In comment 14254539 edavisiii said:
Quote:
I don't think You don't draft a RT that High. Most of the top 10 RTs were 3rd to mid round picks. If there is no QB they want draft front 7 people at 6 and 38. RT and FS in the 4th, then get some OL depth, a CB and whoever falls with the rest.

Look at the Seahawks, three out of the 4 Legion of boom crew was drafted in the 5th and 6th round.
I think that's the wrong kind of mindset. You can't assume you're penciling in a starting OT in any round outside of 1 or 2.
RE: RE: Sorry, If we needed a LT I'd consider him  
adamg : 1/8/2019 6:18 pm : link
In comment 14254597 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14254539 edavisiii said:


Quote:


I don't think You don't draft a RT that High. Most of the top 10 RTs were 3rd to mid round picks. If there is no QB they want draft front 7 people at 6 and 38. RT and FS in the 4th, then get some OL depth, a CB and whoever falls with the rest.

Look at the Seahawks, three out of the 4 Legion of boom crew was drafted in the 5th and 6th round.

I think that's the wrong kind of mindset. You can't assume you're penciling in a starting OT in any round outside of 1 or 2.


And even first and second rounders aren't 100%.

But going OT in the fourth and expecting that guy to contribute is ridiculous as a plan for the OL.
Jon,  
Leg of Theismann : 1/8/2019 7:25 pm : link
I'm not sure if you've said this elsewhere, but who do you like the Giants taking at #6 right now?
no way  
GiantsFan84 : 1/8/2019 8:05 pm : link
should he be the pick at 6. no way
This is a guy  
B in ALB : 1/8/2019 8:08 pm : link
who will be hashed out at the combine. We'll get the true measurables and some interviews. No need for the hand-wringing.
RE: With our inability to draft OL  
Deejboy : 1/8/2019 9:18 pm : link
In comment 14254272 AcesUp said:
Quote:
With the recent exception being Hernandez, I don't have a problem going with a "safe" OL pick at 6. This doesn't look like the strongest draft at the top, it's light on QBs with what looks like 2 consensus blue chippers in Bosa and QW and probably another 1-2 as the process plays out. If we can't address QB and we're picking at the top of a flat red chip player pool, safely addressing what has been a hole on your roster since McKenzie regressed is fine by me.

Given that this is an entirely new regime, and their first OL pick was Hernandez who as you say looks good, then how can you say "our inability to pick draft OL"??????
RE: Bill  
Deejboy : 1/8/2019 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14254340 AcesUp said:
Quote:
Largely the same scouts. Same guys that evaluated Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Beatty, etc are still here. New regime is working off their info.

That is garbage. DG is not going to pick anyone he hasn't scouted and watched tons of film on.
If picking a OT  
uconngiant : 1/8/2019 11:32 pm : link
I'd rather make it Greg Little from Mississippi who can play either left or right and can start on the right side from day one.
I will say I like one of the pass rushers more as the Giant's need a pass rush
I would not be thrilled if the Giants go OL at 6.  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2019 12:22 pm : link
If they trade down then picking an offensive linemen makes a lot of sense but I would prefer they wait until round 2 to target Edwards, Cajuste, etc. Center is a bigger need than RT IMO but this is a very deep center class and I think that they can find a good one in round 4.
And DG is infallible?  
AcesUp : 1/9/2019 1:56 pm : link
I'm not trying to trash DG either but he also missed badly on Omameh and kind of missed on Solder. Organizationally we have been bad at scouting that position. It's not an argument. Scouts themselves will tell you they are stronger at certain positions and weaker at others. Our scouts have been whiffing badly on OL for a decade. I'm optimistic myself, but some of you are still in LaLa thinking that all of our problems will disappear because we replaced Reese with DG. Reese wasn't making picks by himself and neither is DG, it's an organizational effort. Ours hasn't been great at OL scouting. Which is why I'm okay settling on a lower ceiling technically sound OL vs relying on our scouts to project NFL upside there.
Have faith in DGs ability to talent evaluate  
TMS : 1/9/2019 5:32 pm : link
`and pick players that will fit into our scheme. Do not like OL with that pick in a draft filled with defensive studs by most reports.
RE: And DG is infallible?  
Eman11 : 1/9/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14255640 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I'm not trying to trash DG either but he also missed badly on Omameh and kind of missed on Solder. Organizationally we have been bad at scouting that position. It's not an argument. Scouts themselves will tell you they are stronger at certain positions and weaker at others. Our scouts have been whiffing badly on OL for a decade. I'm optimistic myself, but some of you are still in LaLa thinking that all of our problems will disappear because we replaced Reese with DG. Reese wasn't making picks by himself and neither is DG, it's an organizational effort. Ours hasn't been great at OL scouting. Which is why I'm okay settling on a lower ceiling technically sound OL vs relying on our scouts to project NFL upside there.


I think DG was in a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing with Solder. There was no way he couldn't try and upgrade the line or go with Flowers as the LT again.

Solder was the best out there and while he got paid like the best LT in the game and more than he should've gotten IMO,it was a move DG had to do.

I can't imagine the shit storm if he stayed with Flowers or ended up with someone not as good as Solder. I think he'd be getting slammed for not getting Solder, so I really think he did what need to be done.
RE: RE: And DG is infallible?  
Johnny5 : 1/9/2019 6:10 pm : link
In comment 14255937 Eman11 said:
Quote:

I think DG was in a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing with Solder. There was no way he couldn't try and upgrade the line or go with Flowers as the LT again.

Solder was the best out there and while he got paid like the best LT in the game and more than he should've gotten IMO,it was a move DG had to do.

I can't imagine the shit storm if he stayed with Flowers or ended up with someone not as good as Solder. I think he'd be getting slammed for not getting Solder, so I really think he did what need to be done.

I agree with this. He went after Norwell first and when Norwell was off the market he went to the next best option. And to be fair Solder played well the second half of the year as they all became more comfortable together as an OL and with the offense... also apparently he was suffering from a neck injury. And Omameh was a bad pickup, but at least DG cut bait when they realized he stunk. If Reese signed him he'd still be starting.
RE: RE: And DG is infallible?  
Johnny5 : 1/9/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14255937 Eman11 said:
Quote:

I think DG was in a damned if you do damned if you don't kind of thing with Solder. There was no way he couldn't try and upgrade the line or go with Flowers as the LT again.

Solder was the best out there and while he got paid like the best LT in the game and more than he should've gotten IMO,it was a move DG had to do.

I can't imagine the shit storm if he stayed with Flowers or ended up with someone not as good as Solder. I think he'd be getting slammed for not getting Solder, so I really think he did what need to be done.

I agree with this. He went after Norwell first and when Norwell was off the market he went to the next best option. And to be fair Solder played well the second half of the year as they all became more comfortable together as an OL and with the offense... also apparently he was suffering from a neck injury. And Omameh was a bad pickup, but at least DG cut bait when they realized he stunk. If Reese signed him he'd still be starting.
I don't understand the Omameh hand wringing  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 7:08 pm : link
He sucks yeah, but what did you want him to do? Resign John Jerry. There is a league wide dearth of talent at the offensive line position. The draft is really the only way to build a line now and I'm pretty surprised Norwell made it to free agency.
RE: I would not be thrilled if the Giants go OL at 6.  
adamg : 1/9/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14255438 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
If they trade down then picking an offensive linemen makes a lot of sense but I would prefer they wait until round 2 to target Edwards, Cajuste, etc. Center is a bigger need than RT IMO but this is a very deep center class and I think that they can find a good one in round 4.


The FO seemed pretty sold on Halapio as a C. And based on his small sample from last year, he was playing better than anyone else that filled that C hold. That's what stops me from saying C is a bigger need than RT. If they're right about Halapio, Wheeler is by far the weakest link.
RE: RE: I would not be thrilled if the Giants go OL at 6.  
Diver_Down : 1/9/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14256020 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14255438 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


If they trade down then picking an offensive linemen makes a lot of sense but I would prefer they wait until round 2 to target Edwards, Cajuste, etc. Center is a bigger need than RT IMO but this is a very deep center class and I think that they can find a good one in round 4.



The FO seemed pretty sold on Halapio as a C. And based on his small sample from last year, he was playing better than anyone else that filled that C hold. That's what stops me from saying C is a bigger need than RT. If they're right about Halapio, Wheeler is by far the weakest link.


Wheeler cannot be the starter next year. He is fine as a swing tackle. What people are assuming is that Jamon Brown will be resigned. He might not want to be back. He might end up getting more than DG is willing to pay. A month or so ago there was a discussion on Jamon's estimated value. I think the consensus was a $5-$6M/yr. But as we know, the market for starters can be inflated. I wouldn't fault him for taking the highest offer, and we could be left at the altar like a jilted bride. Which brings the discussion full circle as to whether Jonah is a potential target at #6. I'm a fan of his, but the draft grade will likely be higher for an ER. Jonah would certainly fill a need.
RE: RE: RE: I would not be thrilled if the Giants go OL at 6.  
adamg : 1/9/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14256044 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14256020 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 14255438 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


If they trade down then picking an offensive linemen makes a lot of sense but I would prefer they wait until round 2 to target Edwards, Cajuste, etc. Center is a bigger need than RT IMO but this is a very deep center class and I think that they can find a good one in round 4.



The FO seemed pretty sold on Halapio as a C. And based on his small sample from last year, he was playing better than anyone else that filled that C hold. That's what stops me from saying C is a bigger need than RT. If they're right about Halapio, Wheeler is by far the weakest link.



Wheeler cannot be the starter next year. He is fine as a swing tackle. What people are assuming is that Jamon Brown will be resigned. He might not want to be back. He might end up getting more than DG is willing to pay. A month or so ago there was a discussion on Jamon's estimated value. I think the consensus was a $5-$6M/yr. But as we know, the market for starters can be inflated. I wouldn't fault him for taking the highest offer, and we could be left at the altar like a jilted bride. Which brings the discussion full circle as to whether Jonah is a potential target at #6. I'm a fan of his, but the draft grade will likely be higher for an ER. Jonah would certainly fill a need.


Agreed. If Jamon isn't coming back and Halapio is the de facto starter, Jonah may be a perfect need/value pick (perhaps with the mystical trade down scenario). But, I definitely won't be upset if they like a defender more than Jonah. Even White or a DB would be fine by me.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would not be thrilled if the Giants go OL at 6.  
Diver_Down : 1/9/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14256050 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 14256044 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


In comment 14256020 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 14255438 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


If they trade down then picking an offensive linemen makes a lot of sense but I would prefer they wait until round 2 to target Edwards, Cajuste, etc. Center is a bigger need than RT IMO but this is a very deep center class and I think that they can find a good one in round 4.



The FO seemed pretty sold on Halapio as a C. And based on his small sample from last year, he was playing better than anyone else that filled that C hold. That's what stops me from saying C is a bigger need than RT. If they're right about Halapio, Wheeler is by far the weakest link.



Wheeler cannot be the starter next year. He is fine as a swing tackle. What people are assuming is that Jamon Brown will be resigned. He might not want to be back. He might end up getting more than DG is willing to pay. A month or so ago there was a discussion on Jamon's estimated value. I think the consensus was a $5-$6M/yr. But as we know, the market for starters can be inflated. I wouldn't fault him for taking the highest offer, and we could be left at the altar like a jilted bride. Which brings the discussion full circle as to whether Jonah is a potential target at #6. I'm a fan of his, but the draft grade will likely be higher for an ER. Jonah would certainly fill a need.



Agreed. If Jamon isn't coming back and Halapio is the de facto starter, Jonah may be a perfect need/value pick (perhaps with the mystical trade down scenario). But, I definitely won't be upset if they like a defender more than Jonah. Even White or a DB would be fine by me.


With so many holes on the roster, DG really can't go wrong. Of course, it won't stop a large contingent wanting to crucify him for not picking their guy.
---  
Peppers : 1/9/2019 8:27 pm : link
I've heard not many will see him as a LT. Of course, it's all in the eye of the beholder. A few people I know have been saying RT/OG depending on which the scheme. He does get plenty of praise for his work ethic and tape study.

Something to consider, Tua is a Lefty.
RE: ---  
Diver_Down : 1/9/2019 8:31 pm : link
In comment 14256117 Peppers said:
Quote:
I've heard not many will see him as a LT. Of course, it's all in the eye of the beholder. A few people I know have been saying RT/OG depending on which the scheme. He does get plenty of praise for his work ethic and tape study.

Something to consider, Tua is a Lefty.


If Jonah was to start on the right, there is nothing that would stop him from moving to the left in 3 years when Nate's contract is done.
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