Assuming Bosa/Quinnen/Josh Allen (clear Top 3) off the board
This dude Oliver is incredible at pushing and disrupting the pocket up the middle. Every time he has 1 blocker on him, he pushes his guy back. The rest of the time, he is doubled/tripled.
Gerald McCoy 2.0
Gettleman loves his DTs
Would be a 3-4 DE in this scheme next to Hill and Tomlinson
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Someone is going to make a stupid offer to get him way before 6 I recall when he was a top recruit. Good kid. Good head on his shoulders. And despite all the stuff about how easy he had it IMO his skill set fits the NFL. Meyer has then adjust The Who Power Spread ro more a a pro set for him. To me that says a lot
Ed Oliver checks off every box:
- Blue-Chip talent with elite Pro-Bowl upside
- Plays a premium position that Gettleman obsesses over (Interior DL)
- Fills a need (starting 3-4 DE next to Hill/Tomlinson)
- BPA
No, QB is not a need in 2019 and Gettleman doesn't draft shitty QBs with Top 10 picks
Huh? That's literally backwards. He's a pass-rushing DT who gets upfield. He is compared to Aaron Donald, Dominique Easley. His weakness is his lateral anchor against the run.
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Strong against the run, but little or no pass rush. Probably a big overdraft at 6.
Huh? That's literally backwards. He's a pass-rushing DT who gets upfield. He is compared to Aaron Donald, Dominique Easley. His weakness is his lateral anchor against the run.
I agree. It is backwards. Oliver has a tremendous first step and quickness. If anything, he overruns running plays. But he is a disruptive force getting to the backfield. I see a lot of Warren Sapp.
Like Matty said: if he's still on the board, but likely he'll be gone because the Jags or Broncs will jump us. He's prolly the best QB this year and def a first round talent... so if you need a QB, he's your guy. Fact is, Broncs and Jags need him even more than the Gmen do. Keep Jamon Brown, upgrade OC and RT, and Eli will ball just fine.
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13!
There is a good chance that picking at 6 you get a top 3 or 4 overall DL or olb defender assuming that someone picking 1-5 has need on offense and/or another team reads value slightly differently. Maybe even a top 2.
And- it's also highly likely that a few of those 13 will still be available top of round 2.
It's an unusual situation and given that teams ran on us late in games and moved and passed the ball late in games appears a no brainer.
Agreed.. Haskins throwing to OBJ Shep, Engram and Barkley
Sign me up
Nice, but show me some clips where he doesn't have all day to throw to wide open receivers.
If there is a top 4 -overall- defender sitting there, and your top QB is say, 15th overall ...at best, that's typically an order of magnitude below in terms of how unusual the player is.
Expect a similar situation at #38 as well. A few Top 15 overall defenders vs more or less in the 30s overall - everything else.
Also. I never liked QBs from dominant college programs with big o lines.
Other than B, I think the others were legitimately stating their preference for Haskins. Brace yourself because any attempt to discuss other prospects for the next 3 1/2 months will be drowned out by those who are incapable of processing an opposing thought with cries for Haskins. What will be even worse, is that when Haskins is sitting there at #6 and DG chooses a different player, we will be treated to the summary conclusion that DG is an old, slobbering, fool who has no idea what he is doing. The Sammy Sycophants have quieted down only to prop up their latest idol.
Same thing here. If there is a player with freakish unusual ability at DT, or DL or OLB that will be the choice vs a 'reasonably good bet' at QB.
Or the great DLs and front 7s from the epic teams of you're.
Being able to blow shit up up front on big downs is just fun to watch, and gives your offense more leeway.
#1- Look at his deep passes. He throws them very smoothly, no herky jerk motion or over use of the body to throw deep. The passes have great arc and hit their man in stride. We have not seen deep passes in stride in forever. Eli's deep passes have not been the same since 2011.
#2- He moves enough to make the throws but doesn't just take off running. His mechanics stay solid even while moving.
#3- He gets the ball out quickly and with force. Yes, a little behind on some crossing routes but, we have seen far worse over the last few years. He is young and can develop.
I am not yet 100% saying draft Haskins if there but, I would not be upset if we did. All this 2020/2021 talk is BS. You cannot assume we will be there to get any of those QB's.
I think at least 1 of the QBs will rise considerably in the off season. This happens every year. Wouldn't be surprised to see 2 of Haskins, Lock, Jones go top 6.
Think 2002 bucs, 2000 Ravens, 85 bears, 2011 Giants...like that.
And, it's annoying.
He has a pretty damn good arm
+1
And that is fair when a discussion is about who to draft at #6. But literally the thread is about DT Ed Oliver, yet right away, the cacaphony for Haskins drowns out any discussion and the thread devolves into a pro/con Haskins thread.
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All aboard thats coming aboard.
And, it's annoying.
I actually heard Boomer say today the Giants should trade up to #1 to get him. He said it's a no brainer based on the 100 plays of him he watched. So basically seven plays a game. Lol.
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In comment 14255131 Brown Recluse said:
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All aboard thats coming aboard.
And, it's annoying.
I actually heard Boomer say today the Giants should trade up to #1 to get him. He said it's a no brainer based on the 100 plays of him he watched. So basically seven plays a game. Lol.
That might be a little more than most have watched of Haskins, grin.
Kinda set at DT with Tomlinson.
So White wanted Oliver to take it off as the team was headed to halftime of a game. Olive got pissed and tempers flared. All on TV.
To me, dumb move by Applewhite. Handle it in the locker room.
Projecting QB skills to the NFL is not easy, it's a huge leap even from the top collegiate programs due to the complexity of offensive and defensive schemes, terminology, the SPEED of the pro game, and playing against grown men. To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
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All aboard thats coming aboard.
And, it's annoying.
Tis the season... :)
Secondly, at possible "top 4 OVERALL" value, your damn right they can line up -next to- Hill (who can play anywhere on the DL to begin with, which allows this) and Tomlinson...bc the pick will have those skills otherwise wouldn't be valued at the very top of the draft. Top 5 or so for all pundits.
Thirdly, as Getts showed with Barkely, if the player is the very unusual type you draft em.
I like Haskins and would not object to the pick.
He has all of the physical tools and skill set to be a great QB.
However, I caution those who are using his stats as an indicator, take a close look at the stats.
Haskins threw more 5-10 yard passes that turned into long touchdowns then any other QB I remember watching.
The OSU schedule was very easy 10 out of the 14 teams they played had losing records and most of the games were not competitive. Haskins was great in these games throwing 33 touchdowns.
Haskins did not play well in a three game stretch in the middle of the season. If you watch the Purdue, Nebraska, and Michigan State games he was very ordinary.
If you look at the Purdue game, Haskins had empty stats as he threw for 470 yards, in the OSU loss. In Michagan State (61.5%) and Purdue (56.3%) his completion percentage was not good and he was missing open receivers.
The lack of games started does concern me. Only 4 out of the 14 games were competitive.
As a reference, until the Clemson game, I thought Tua was the best QB in college football.
But Tua showed some difficulties in the game that he will need to address. I want to see more.
We have not seen Haskins against the pressure defenses like a Clemson or Alabama.
Haskins is deliberate player that makes all the throws look easy. But what happens under pressure, we can only speculate how will he react when the game speeds up?
Have him as the fourth best player in the draft. But be surprised if the Giants went that way.
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From what I've seen so far, I don't want Haskins at #6. But posters shouldn't be savaged for expressing a contrary opinion. The purpose of this board is to discuss the Giants, including who they might draft at #6.
And that is fair when a discussion is about who to draft at #6. But literally the thread is about DT Ed Oliver, yet right away, the cacaphony for Haskins drowns out any discussion and the thread devolves into a pro/con Haskins thread.
I understand your point, but a lot of threads start out talking about one player, and end up talking about someone else.
Shouldn't confuse having to put a succession plan in place with it being the top priority.
The top priority is actually drafting and signing good players across the board, especially on defense.
He would be a 3-4 DE
Stop wasting ur time.
You posted a highlight video.
Ereck Flowers had a great highlight video coming out, too.
Seriously?
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Nothing about Haskins is a perfect fit. nothing at all.
If u think Gettleman is putting his scouting and GM career on the line for inexperienced Haskins, ur smoking something real strong.
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.
Give it a rest.
Ed Oliver will be the BPA at 6. Gettleman drafts BPA
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In comment 14255256 JonC said:
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.
Give it a rest.
You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.
Darnold was a clear blue chip prospect. Perhaps not at the level of Andrew Luck, but his skills and upside were obvious. He could make all the throws, passed with pin-hole precision, and had the "it" factor that willed his teams to win. His only ding was ball security, which had a lot to do with the awful OL he played behind his final season at USC.
Haskins played on an OSU team that far outreached his opponents in talent. When he was faced with quality opposition, he really only rose to the challenge versus Michigan. The sample size is hard to ignore.
I don't think Haskins will be in the mix at #6 in April.
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Not so certain about that, and that's where Meyer QBs tend to be well protected.
Haskins played on an OSU team that far outreached his opponents in talent. When he was faced with quality opposition, he really only rose to the challenge versus Michigan.
I'm gonna challenge you on that. Played great against Penn State (270 and 3 TD) Northwestern (499 and 5 TD), Washington (251 and 3 TD), and obviously Michigan (396 and 6 TD).
He played very well to great in every game against good competition. The notion that he only played awesome against Michigan isn't true.
He needs to have a big Combines to ease the concerns, and I don't think the skill is there.
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but I thought the people saying Haskins were doing it to get a rise out of the OP, who seems to be a troll fixated on Haskins.
Other than B, I think the others were legitimately stating their preference for Haskins. Brace yourself because any attempt to discuss other prospects for the next 3 1/2 months will be drowned out by those who are incapable of processing an opposing thought with cries for Haskins. What will be even worse, is that when Haskins is sitting there at #6 and DG chooses a different player, we will be treated to the summary conclusion that DG is an old, slobbering, fool who has no idea what he is doing. The Sammy Sycophants have quieted down only to prop up their latest idol.
Well, you were wrong and Fatman was right. I was most definitely fucking with the troll OP. I can't believe this thread took off with actual discussion. IMO people need to not seriously engage these trolls.
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and built like a horse, can make all the throws, and played great against the best teams on the schedule. If he's not the guy at 6, then you are probably correct about the "it" factor or there's something about the work ethic.
He needs to have a big Combines to ease the concerns, and I don't think the skill is there.
You don't think Haskins has the skill?
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In comment 14255573 ryanmkeane said:
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and built like a horse, can make all the throws, and played great against the best teams on the schedule. If he's not the guy at 6, then you are probably correct about the "it" factor or there's something about the work ethic.
He needs to have a big Combines to ease the concerns, and I don't think the skill is there.
You don't think Haskins has the skill?
Not to clearly project him as a blue chip NFL prospect, no.
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In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 14255256 JonC said:
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.
Give it a rest.
You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.
OMFG. The pot and the kettle...
Well said and accurate
Both Wentz and Mayfield moved up in the draft.
Both Wentz and Mayfield moved up in the draft.
Mayfield was my number one guy last year and to me the only question mark was the same one I have for Haskins. How is gonna perform with pressure in his face. His size didn't bother me because he's built rock solid. Mayfield's accuracy is on another level though.
Kerry Wynn is one of our starting DEs
Oliver would replace Wynn as a 3-4 DE. The upgrade is MASSIVE.
Whatchu talking about?
You don't judge a DT by Sack totals, and he also missed 4 games.
You judge a DT by how he disrupts the pocket.
Amazing I have to explain Football 101 to so many on here.
Haskins can't throw accurately from a Compressed Pocket.
He needs the perfect pocket to complete an accurate pass.
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In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 14255256 JonC said:
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.
Give it a rest.
You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.
No, dumb shit, YOU are delusional for thinking the Giants want Haskins.
Exactly.
And he would replace our weakest link on the line (Kerry Wynn)
Imagine going from Kerry Wynn to Ed Oliver in 2019.
The upgrade is beyond massive in every aspect.
Ed Oliver - Value AND Need pick
Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.
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so Oliver would be a DE for us.
Exactly.
And he would replace our weakest link on the line (Kerry Wynn)
Imagine going from Kerry Wynn to Ed Oliver in 2019.
The upgrade is beyond massive in every aspect.
Ed Oliver - Value AND Need pick
Oliver is not a fit. He's a 3T DT, not a 4T or 5T in a base 3-4. Gettleman will not draft him. He is smart. Imagine him watching film on Oliver and thinking he's a fit as a 3-4 DE. hahahaha! Completely delusional.
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so Oliver would be a DE for us.
Exactly.
And he would replace our weakest link on the line (Kerry Wynn)
Imagine going from Kerry Wynn to Ed Oliver in 2019.
The upgrade is beyond massive in every aspect.
Ed Oliver - Value AND Need pick
While I would be happy with Oliver at 6 DE isn't a huge need IMO if the Giants re-sign Mario Edwards and Josh Mauro. Edwards was a pleasant surprise for the Giants. He is still young and improving. You can never have enough depth on the DL though. I would prefer to see Tomlinson move back to the 5 technique but the Giants have to add a NT to the roster.
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In comment 14255540 SaqBar999 said:
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In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 14255256 JonC said:
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.
Give it a rest.
You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.
No, dumb shit, YOU are delusional for thinking the Giants want Haskins.
Is there any information that supports this statement or are you one of those people who post their opinions as fact? The truth is nobody knows what the Giants will do in the draft that is over 4 months away.
Imho value is measured on an individual player basis based on how unusual or outstanding any player is based on VS all the others ...ever... at that position.
If your prospect is faster, more mobile, smarter or more football instinctive, bigger, stronger, loves the game more than most at that position,.... ever...., they go early... top rounds.
NOT "the top (name any position) usually goes high in Rd X"
It does have value to know those trends, but they don't offer value in terms of your measure of actual players. That's market knowledge. Trends. Which you try to play to take advantage of the overall market. But:
If the best X any position this year = a 2nd or 3rd rounder in previous years, they still should go in 2 or 3.
They might go higher, but that's doesn't indicate true value. Market value, yes.
Each draft is different.
Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.
Del, it's about fit. In a 3-4, his value is greater if he's a NT, and less if he's a DE.
In a 4-3, he makes more sense as a DT.
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etc., but I can't see blasting the choice of Oliver at #6. We need an impact DL and he's rated as high as the #3 pick overall - doesn't seem like a reach.
Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.
Del, it's about fit. In a 3-4, his value is greater if he's a NT, and less if he's a DE.
In a 4-3, he makes more sense as a DT.
The argument could be made that our 1 gap 3/4 works is more similar to a 4/3 than a traditional 3/4.
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In comment 14255676 Del Shofner said:
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etc., but I can't see blasting the choice of Oliver at #6. We need an impact DL and he's rated as high as the #3 pick overall - doesn't seem like a reach.
Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.
Del, it's about fit. In a 3-4, his value is greater if he's a NT, and less if he's a DE.
In a 4-3, he makes more sense as a DT.
The argument could be made that our 1 gap 3/4 works is more similar to a 4/3 than a traditional 3/4.
I get it, but DG has been showing 4-3 players the door and importing 3-4 players. That suggests they're possibly in transition like much of the roster and blueprint.
No, dumb shit, YOU are delusional for thinking the Giants want Haskins.
You are a sad little man.
I was wrong on Aaron Donald during his scouting season, flat out.
What do you think is risky about him?
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Is too risky to take at 6 imv.
What do you think is risky about him?
Questionable football IQ, questionable vs the run, didn’t play the toughest competition.
Explosive athlete w a lot of upside, but I’d rather go with a more polished guy off the edge.
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In comment 14255540 SaqBar999 said:
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In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 14255256 JonC said:
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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.
This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.
Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.
Give it a rest.
You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.
OMFG. The pot and the kettle...
And who might you be? Bitch
Besides Bosa and Williams, he’s my favorite d-lineman
By watching him play. He has trouble diagnosing plays.
Questionable football IQ, questionable vs the run, didn’t play the toughest competition.
Explosive athlete w a lot of upside, but I’d rather go with a more polished guy off the edge.
Never heard that. Oliver was the 4th ranked played in the HS Class of 2016. Had offers from all of the top schools. It was a surprise he stated at home in Houston. Was really trying to help the program.
So being a top NFL draft prospect in no surprise here...
No evidence, but I think he sort of mailed it in this year to save himself for the draft. His frosh and soph years were very, very good in all facets...
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Questionable football IQ, questionable vs the run, didn’t play the toughest competition.
Explosive athlete w a lot of upside, but I’d rather go with a more polished guy off the edge.
Never heard that. Oliver was the 4th ranked played in the HS Class of 2016. Had offers from all of the top schools. It was a surprise he stated at home in Houston. Was really trying to help the program.
So being a top NFL draft prospect in no surprise here...
No evidence, but I think he sort of mailed it in this year to save himself for the draft. His frosh and soph years were very, very good in all facets...
Thats exactly what I'm thinking. Anyone that watched him play fresh and soph wouldn't be questioning take him at 6.
He sure has a clean pocket! Tulane was in the National Championship hunt this year, right?
That's a little snarky, but you get my point.