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DT Ed Oliver - perfect choice at #6 overall pick

SaqBar999 : 1/8/2019 11:29 pm
Assuming Bosa/Quinnen/Josh Allen (clear Top 3) off the board

This dude Oliver is incredible at pushing and disrupting the pocket up the middle. Every time he has 1 blocker on him, he pushes his guy back. The rest of the time, he is doubled/tripled.

Gerald McCoy 2.0

Gettleman loves his DTs

Would be a 3-4 DE in this scheme next to Hill and Tomlinson
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RE: I'm an Urban hater  
SaqBar999 : 1/9/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14255627 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
but anyone that watched that Maryland game could see he has that it factor.


Haskins can't throw accurately from a Compressed Pocket.

He needs the perfect pocket to complete an accurate pass.
We play a 3-4  
Phil in LA : 1/9/2019 2:08 pm : link
so Oliver would be a DE for us.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Haskins and Tua  
SaqBar999 : 1/9/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14255549 Ssanders9816 said:
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In comment 14255540 SaqBar999 said:


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In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:


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In comment 14255256 JonC said:


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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.


This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.



Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.

Give it a rest.



You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.



No, dumb shit, YOU are delusional for thinking the Giants want Haskins.
RE: We play a 3-4  
SaqBar999 : 1/9/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14255665 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
so Oliver would be a DE for us.



Exactly.

And he would replace our weakest link on the line (Kerry Wynn)

Imagine going from Kerry Wynn to Ed Oliver in 2019.

The upgrade is beyond massive in every aspect.

Ed Oliver - Value AND Need pick
I'll stay out of the Haskins debate and will also await the combines  
Del Shofner : 1/9/2019 2:16 pm : link
etc., but I can't see blasting the choice of Oliver at #6. We need an impact DL and he's rated as high as the #3 pick overall - doesn't seem like a reach.

Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.
RE: RE: We play a 3-4  
Strahan91 : 1/9/2019 2:16 pm : link
In comment 14255671 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14255665 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


so Oliver would be a DE for us.




Exactly.

And he would replace our weakest link on the line (Kerry Wynn)

Imagine going from Kerry Wynn to Ed Oliver in 2019.

The upgrade is beyond massive in every aspect.

Ed Oliver - Value AND Need pick

Oliver is not a fit. He's a 3T DT, not a 4T or 5T in a base 3-4. Gettleman will not draft him. He is smart. Imagine him watching film on Oliver and thinking he's a fit as a 3-4 DE. hahahaha! Completely delusional.
RE: RE: We play a 3-4  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14255671 SaqBar999 said:
Quote:
In comment 14255665 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


so Oliver would be a DE for us.




Exactly.

And he would replace our weakest link on the line (Kerry Wynn)

Imagine going from Kerry Wynn to Ed Oliver in 2019.

The upgrade is beyond massive in every aspect.

Ed Oliver - Value AND Need pick

While I would be happy with Oliver at 6 DE isn't a huge need IMO if the Giants re-sign Mario Edwards and Josh Mauro. Edwards was a pleasant surprise for the Giants. He is still young and improving. You can never have enough depth on the DL though. I would prefer to see Tomlinson move back to the 5 technique but the Giants have to add a NT to the roster.
On a recent Scout's Honor  
K-Gun? Pop-Gun : 1/9/2019 2:18 pm : link
Dave-Te'Thomas was not too impressed with Oliver.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Haskins and Tua  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14255667 SaqBar999 said:
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In comment 14255549 Ssanders9816 said:


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In comment 14255540 SaqBar999 said:


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In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:


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In comment 14255256 JonC said:


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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.


This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.



Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.

Give it a rest.



You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.




No, dumb shit, YOU are delusional for thinking the Giants want Haskins.

Is there any information that supports this statement or are you one of those people who post their opinions as fact? The truth is nobody knows what the Giants will do in the draft that is over 4 months away.
Whereas I'm not looking at prospects r now, but  
idiotsavant : 1/9/2019 2:22 pm : link
It's true that some fans tend to conflate past draft order trends, i.e. positional expectations, i.e. such as the expectations of a QB or wr or edge rusher within the top 3...with actual value measures.

Imho value is measured on an individual player basis based on how unusual or outstanding any player is based on VS all the others ...ever... at that position.

If your prospect is faster, more mobile, smarter or more football instinctive, bigger, stronger, loves the game more than most at that position,.... ever...., they go early... top rounds.

NOT "the top (name any position) usually goes high in Rd X"

It does have value to know those trends, but they don't offer value in terms of your measure of actual players. That's market knowledge. Trends. Which you try to play to take advantage of the overall market. But:

If the best X any position this year = a 2nd or 3rd rounder in previous years, they still should go in 2 or 3.
They might go higher, but that's doesn't indicate true value. Market value, yes.

Each draft is different.
RE: I'll stay out of the Haskins debate and will also await the combines  
JonC : 1/9/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14255676 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
etc., but I can't see blasting the choice of Oliver at #6. We need an impact DL and he's rated as high as the #3 pick overall - doesn't seem like a reach.

Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.


Del, it's about fit. In a 3-4, his value is greater if he's a NT, and less if he's a DE.

In a 4-3, he makes more sense as a DT.
RE: RE: I'll stay out of the Haskins debate and will also await the combines  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14255710 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14255676 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


etc., but I can't see blasting the choice of Oliver at #6. We need an impact DL and he's rated as high as the #3 pick overall - doesn't seem like a reach.

Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.



Del, it's about fit. In a 3-4, his value is greater if he's a NT, and less if he's a DE.

In a 4-3, he makes more sense as a DT.


The argument could be made that our 1 gap 3/4 works is more similar to a 4/3 than a traditional 3/4.
We don't run a traditional 3-4 though  
AcesUp : 1/9/2019 2:36 pm : link
Our DEs aren't really asked to anchor, they're playing 1 gap and asked to get up field. That is the thing that Oliver does exceptionally well, potentially rare ability there. Personnel wise, there's some overlap with Hill and they do appear to want more length at the other end spot but he is a scheme fit here.
And anyone that only saw Oliver play this year  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 2:38 pm : link
needs to see him his Fresh and Soph years. Not sure why his play declined this year but he was unreal as a fresh and aoph.
RE: RE: RE: I'll stay out of the Haskins debate and will also await the combines  
JonC : 1/9/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14255717 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14255710 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 14255676 Del Shofner said:


Quote:


etc., but I can't see blasting the choice of Oliver at #6. We need an impact DL and he's rated as high as the #3 pick overall - doesn't seem like a reach.

Not saying we should take him, just that I can't see criticizing him as a serious possibility.



Del, it's about fit. In a 3-4, his value is greater if he's a NT, and less if he's a DE.

In a 4-3, he makes more sense as a DT.



The argument could be made that our 1 gap 3/4 works is more similar to a 4/3 than a traditional 3/4.


I get it, but DG has been showing 4-3 players the door and importing 3-4 players. That suggests they're possibly in transition like much of the roster and blueprint.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Haskins and Tua  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/9/2019 3:00 pm : link
Quote:


No, dumb shit, YOU are delusional for thinking the Giants want Haskins.


You are a sad little man.
JonC  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 3:13 pm : link
Certainly a possibility. Betcher gives me the vibe of a guy that will tailor his defense to the talent though and Oliver is a helluva talent. He comes out last year he's first defensive player off board imo. Due dilligance from him is going to come from what information they can get from inside the weight room on him. Does he pssess the pure strength that Darnold has?
RE: JonC  
JonC : 1/9/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14255767 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
Certainly a possibility. Betcher gives me the vibe of a guy that will tailor his defense to the talent though and Oliver is a helluva talent. He comes out last year he's first defensive player off board imo. Due dilligance from him is going to come from what information they can get from inside the weight room on him. Does he pssess the pure strength that Darnold has?


I was wrong on Aaron Donald during his scouting season, flat out.
JonC you know how this will go down  
Dave on the UWS : 1/9/2019 3:32 pm : link
if Gettleman thinks when he’s on the clock, that Haskins is the BPA he will take him. If not he won’t. Any discussion at this point before all star games, combine, personal meetings, pro days, etc., is pointless. We will see what April brings.
I was uncertain about Darnold, but it taught me it is important  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 3:33 pm : link
to recognize the NFL has changed a ton. No way I'd be stumping for Mayfield ten years ago, but he's practically the prototypical NFL QB now. Being mobile and having consistent pinpoint accuracy are the two most important traits a QB can have now. Mobility keeps the chains moving and the accuracy creates the YAC, which is really where big plays in the NFL come from now.
I actually believe frame size is way more important than height in NFL  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 3:35 pm : link
qbs today. Mobility comes with a price and guys that aren't built don't stay healthy.
Oliver  
WillVAB : 1/9/2019 3:43 pm : link
Is too risky to take at 6 imv.
RE: Oliver  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 3:53 pm : link
In comment 14255814 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Is too risky to take at 6 imv.


What do you think is risky about him?
I just looked up his weight room numbers  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 3:57 pm : link
and he has strength numbers considered elite for NFL players so that answers that. Wait till he runs sub 4.7 at combine. We may not even get a chance to draft him.
RE: RE: Oliver  
WillVAB : 1/9/2019 4:03 pm : link
In comment 14255826 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14255814 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Is too risky to take at 6 imv.



What do you think is risky about him?


Questionable football IQ, questionable vs the run, didn’t play the toughest competition.

Explosive athlete w a lot of upside, but I’d rather go with a more polished guy off the edge.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Haskins and Tua  
Ssanders9816 : 1/9/2019 4:14 pm : link
In comment 14255599 adamg said:
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In comment 14255549 Ssanders9816 said:


Quote:


In comment 14255540 SaqBar999 said:


Quote:


In comment 14255536 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 14255256 JonC said:


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To top it off, how many prospects have we seen fail due to the mental aspect the pro game requires.


This is a good point, but one I am not concerned with Haskins. Dude is a hard worker, close to getting his degree already from school. You can see he goes through his progressions as well. He's not a 1 read and duck out of the pocket kinda guy.



Haskins is not a realistic option at 6.

Give it a rest.



You are a delusional psychopath that needs serious help.



OMFG. The pot and the kettle...


And who might you be? Bitch
Questionable vs the run isn't correct, but okay.  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 4:21 pm : link
To me the only real question mark he has is no sack production. Thats explainable though, he played nose in a 3/4 front. I think his statistical production is low because he consistently faced double and triple teams. Questionable football IQ is new to me? Where did you hear that?
Has anyone watched Jeffrey Simmons?  
jayg5 : 1/9/2019 8:00 pm : link
Looks like a stud
Besides Bosa and Williams, he’s my favorite d-lineman
RE: Questionable vs the run isn't correct, but okay.  
WillVAB : 1/9/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14255863 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
To me the only real question mark he has is no sack production. Thats explainable though, he played nose in a 3/4 front. I think his statistical production is low because he consistently faced double and triple teams. Questionable football IQ is new to me? Where did you hear that?


By watching him play. He has trouble diagnosing plays.
RE: RE: RE: Oliver  
bw in dc : 1/9/2019 8:17 pm : link
In comment 14255842 WillVAB said:
Quote:

Questionable football IQ, questionable vs the run, didn’t play the toughest competition.

Explosive athlete w a lot of upside, but I’d rather go with a more polished guy off the edge.


Never heard that. Oliver was the 4th ranked played in the HS Class of 2016. Had offers from all of the top schools. It was a surprise he stated at home in Houston. Was really trying to help the program.

So being a top NFL draft prospect in no surprise here...

No evidence, but I think he sort of mailed it in this year to save himself for the draft. His frosh and soph years were very, very good in all facets...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Oliver  
Zeke's Alibi : 1/9/2019 8:21 pm : link
In comment 14256106 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14255842 WillVAB said:


Quote:



Questionable football IQ, questionable vs the run, didn’t play the toughest competition.

Explosive athlete w a lot of upside, but I’d rather go with a more polished guy off the edge.



Never heard that. Oliver was the 4th ranked played in the HS Class of 2016. Had offers from all of the top schools. It was a surprise he stated at home in Houston. Was really trying to help the program.

So being a top NFL draft prospect in no surprise here...

No evidence, but I think he sort of mailed it in this year to save himself for the draft. His frosh and soph years were very, very good in all facets...


Thats exactly what I'm thinking. Anyone that watched him play fresh and soph wouldn't be questioning take him at 6.
RE: whats not to like  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 1/9/2019 9:34 pm : link
In comment 14255061 mdthedream said:
Quote:
Kid looks great. Link - ( New Window )


He sure has a clean pocket! Tulane was in the National Championship hunt this year, right?

That's a little snarky, but you get my point.
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