NFT: Yankees Chat

Machado it�s unclear at this point. Until he signs I think they�re still in it. They�re probably just waiting to see where his price comes in at rather than getting into a bidding war.

anything being written now is mostly just because nothing is happening and I realize that.

In comment 14255108 Strahan91 said:

Quote:

Machado it�s unclear at this point. Until he signs I think they�re still in it. They�re probably just waiting to see where his price comes in at rather than getting into a bidding war.

Fair enough, but say they pass on both, is it the right move?

The White Sox are the only team so far to have made an formal offer. Both the Yanks and Phillies are still in discussion, and neither team has submitted a formal offer.

Aren't the only players with potential big paydays down the road; Sanchez, Gleyber, Andujar, Didi and possibly Hicks are all in line and building their cases for big paydays as well.

in Las Vegas.

Manny's probably wanting to wait to see what happens there and Yanks see no reason to have an offer hanging in the meantime.

If Phils win Harper, good for Yanks. If not, and Phils are left with stupid money to spend, good for Manny.

Are under the 300 million mark. Chicago is the wild card. They could spend because they have to. Also, I heard if the money is equal he'd choose the Yanks. Philly is set to meet with Harper maybe to put pressure on Machado to make a decision even though Philly still says they are in on Machado.

My take is that Machado is leaning toward the Yanks right now just because he didn't get the offer he wanted from any team. There is no reason to make a decision now so he is waiting. The teams aren't really deeling pressure. I also heard no formal offer has been made to him by the Yanks or Phils.

I personally like the approach the Yanks are taking. We are the Yankees. We shouldn't have to pay top dollar to get talent similar to the Pats in the NFL. Yes, the NFL has a salary cap and are differenf sports but the Yanks have been burned by these long ass contracts many times before.

will be off the payroll before anyone needs to worry about paying full freight on Judge, Gleyber, Andujar, Severino:

Ellsbury
Chapman
Tanaka (maybe they re-sign? maybe not)
Happ
Sabathia
Gardner
Britton (probably)

That's almost $100M annually.

They have plenty of flexibility, the term structure of their salary commitments graphs out quite nicely.

Maybe they pick 1-2 of the young ones and lock them up early to save a few bucks down the road. Hasn't been their MO in quite a few years (but they also haven't had success building a dynasty in quite a few years).

There's also a surefire (and severe) labor dispute on the near horizon which could alter the rules of engagement quite a bit.

I don't see any reason to fret.

they want to see NYY compete financially with Boston, who has a higher payroll and a greater willingness to eat money. On paper are they a better team than last year? It's close. The loss of Didi hurts a lot, and even if healthy I doubt Tulo provides anywhere near the impact Didi did in the field and at the plate. He was also important as a lefty bat, and right now we really lack one of consequence in the lineup unless Bird is a lot better than he was last year. And the infield is a huge defensive question mark. Voit is an awful defender, Andujar is bad, and Tulo is a significant question mark. Torres is the closest to a reliable and that's questionable.

But the rotation could be significantly better, the bullpen is deep, and the lineup (warts and all) is still a top 2-3 lineup in baseball.

I'd feel more comfortable passing on Manny and Harper if they had a real contingency plan for SS/2B.

In comment 14255119 Beer Man said:

Quote:

Aren't the only players with potential big paydays down the road; Sanchez, Gleyber, Andujar, Didi and possibly Hicks are all in line and building their cases for big paydays as well.

This is exactly why neither Harper nor Machado will become Yankees!

but only if the term is right, say 7/$225-250 range. If he goes elsewhere I'd like to see the Yanks sign Marwin Gonzalez and Moustakas. Both can play 3rd and 1st base. Gonzalez can play some OF. Both would probably cost less than Manny combined and be for a shorter term. And we need some lefty bats in the lineup anyway.

If Harper signs with Philly then it's a couples years and we can chase Trout for center field.

but they've clearly prioritized the pen, and if they lose Chapman, Betances and Britton they're likely to spend to replace them. Hopefully you've got homegrown replacements for CC and for Paxton a year later, but you may not.

...out there who have vivid memories of George Steinbrenner throwing money around like it's Rotisserie Baseball.

But there's a different Steinbrenner running the team now, and as someone else posted earlier there are huge paydays for several young Yankee stars.

Translation: Dream on about Harper or Machado, but neither one will be wearing Pinstripes.

but he's going to get paid off of a 2017 that was as much a flash in the pan as anything else. He's a reliable, versatile 2-WAR guy, but historically he's been a low-.700s OPS hitter other than that one superb year.

Starting pitching!!!!!!

In comment 14255156 GMAN4LIFE said:

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Starting pitching!!!!!!

I don't mean to be rude but no shit. The problem is that there are no legit SP FA that improve us much and Machado isn't preventing us from signing a top SP.

In comment 14255147 Dunedin81 said:

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but they've clearly prioritized the pen, and if they lose Chapman, Betances and Britton they're likely to spend to replace them. Hopefully you've got homegrown replacements for CC and for Paxton a year later, but you may not.

of course. Point is, they have flexibility. The bad contracts are all damn close to over. The fact that we can see tough decisions in the future is a good indication that there are a lot of assets. If you don't have those tough decisions in front of you, it's probably a good indicator that you're not going to have a lot of sustained success.

and is a pending FA after the season. One of the best SS/3B to hit the market in a decade and a half is a free agent.

"But the Yankees need starting pitching!"

exposure in NY Media market and possible endorsements count in addition to salary?

In comment 14255175 robbieballs2003 said:

Quote:

In comment 14255156 GMAN4LIFE said: Quote: Starting pitching!!!!!! I don't mean to be rude but no shit. The problem is that there are no legit SP FA that improve us much and Machado isn't preventing us from signing a top SP.

true but something is better than nothing. We need bodies. Proven bodies to then get the real players up from the farm. Anyone at this point.

They need to focus on that.

In comment 14255184 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

and is a pending FA after the season. One of the best SS/3B to hit the market in a decade and a half is a free agent. "But the Yankees need starting pitching!"

sure... get it but then they still need starting pitching first and foremost. Pitching is the biggest help

In comment 14255136 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

they want to see NYY compete financially with Boston, who has a higher payroll and a greater willingness to eat money. On paper are they a better team than last year? It's close. The loss of Didi hurts a lot, and even if healthy I doubt Tulo provides anywhere near the impact Didi did in the field and at the plate. He was also important as a lefty bat, and right now we really lack one of consequence in the lineup unless Bird is a lot better than he was last year. And the infield is a huge defensive question mark. Voit is an awful defender, Andujar is bad, and Tulo is a significant question mark. Torres is the closest to a reliable and that's questionable. But the rotation could be significantly better, the bullpen is deep, and the lineup (warts and all) is still a top 2-3 lineup in baseball. I'd feel more comfortable passing on Manny and Harper if they had a real contingency plan for SS/2B.

I completely disagree on the thought that the Yanks need to spend money like they print it or something. That's how you end up with Ellsbury deals.

Now, I think that the Yanks are playing this smart. They likely know that all things being equal, Manny wants to play in NY. However, the Yanks see no reason to bid against themselves. They can wait for the field to present their best offers and then they can present an offer that is at least competitive with the others- and expect to win the bidding.

I do think that Cashman might have concerns that if he signs Manny, that will necessitate other moves- at the least, moving Andujar off 3B to some other position or trade him- but that creates problems too.

I also think people are drastically underestimating Tulo's impact. Obviously at 34 years old, he is not going to be 2009-2014 Tulo with the bat, but if he is 2016 Tulo, that's good enough.

People also appear to forget that Tulo has always been an outstanding defensive SS- he has at least two well deserved Gold Gloves.

Tulo does come with some injury history- but the bone spur operations may resolve some of the lower body issues- and the year and a half off may well help his recovery. Remember when ARod got suspended (and injured) and missed a year plus? He came back in his mid-30's and had an outstanding season- likely because he was healthy and rested (as well as the fact that he was a star to begin with).

Back to topic though- I think that it might be February before Harper or Machado sign- simply because the expected $400M market isn't there for them. The Nats are reportedly offering over $300M for Harper- and appear to be making the largest offer- but obviously, with Boras as his agent- Harper is looking for more than that.

I think Machado's market is even slower- and he isn't even getting a Harper offer- and might not ever get it. Still, I think he and his agent know that if he is in NY, he gets a ton of outside revenue through endorsements and the like in NYC.

Let's settle down with the panic in January- the FA market is historically slow and just because the Yanks haven't spent yet doesn't mean that they won't.

In comment 14255196 GMAN4LIFE said:

Quote:

In comment 14255175 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: In comment 14255156 GMAN4LIFE said: Quote: Starting pitching!!!!!! I don't mean to be rude but no shit. The problem is that there are no legit SP FA that improve us much and Machado isn't preventing us from signing a top SP. true but something is better than nothing. We need bodies. Proven bodies to then get the real players up from the farm. Anyone at this point. They need to focus on that.

That's nice. Who, pray tell, should they be pursuing? Past-peak Bumgarner? Past-peak Keuchel? If Max Scherzer at age 29 was on the open market and the Yankees weren't a player I'd be right there with you, but there is nothing resembling an ace available right now. Kluber or Bauer are going to require the Yankees to take a bite out of the MLB team. My guess is the pricetag starts with Gleyber. I wouldn't do that, would you?

I mentioned this elsewhere, but the list of good shortstops at Tulo's age - at least in the last several years - is awfully small. He wasn't great the year of his injury and it's 18 months later. Even if he's healthy, and that's a big if, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to have even average range.

In comment 14255150 M.S. said:

Quote:

...out there who have vivid memories of George Steinbrenner throwing money around like it's Rotisserie Baseball. But there's a different Steinbrenner running the team now, and as someone else posted earlier there are huge paydays for several young Yankee stars. Translation: Dream on about Harper or Machado, but neither one will be wearing Pinstripes.

I love Didi and Hicks but calling them stars is a bit of a stretch. Hicks will also be 30 when he becomes a FA next year and Didi will be before the 2020 season as well.

In comment 14255210 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

I mentioned this elsewhere, but the list of good shortstops at Tulo's age - at least in the last several years - is awfully small. He wasn't great the year of his injury and it's 18 months later. Even if he's healthy, and that's a big if, I don't think it's realistic to expect him to have even average range.

One of Jeter's best season's (2009) was in his age 34 year. My concern with Tulo is the injuries and will he hold up during the day in and day out grind of a 162 game season. This is the big doubt for me.

was convincing Yankee fans that they should run their club like a mid market franchise and concern themselves with the luxury tax.



This chart says it all. They shed payroll with the specter of Machado and Harper being free agents as they enter their prime. This is exactly who the NY Yankees should be signing. If the Yankees miss out on both, I really hope that the rumors that Hal was looking at selling the Yankees comes to fruition and he gets out. He's a bean counter. He's not his father and with the passing of this mother, there are no Earthly ties for him to keep "the Mona Lisa" as George called them.

In comment 14255113 Beer Man said:

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The White Sox are the only team so far to have made an formal offer. Both the Yanks and Phillies are still in discussion, and neither team has submitted a formal offer.

If that's the case I'd hope, if I was a WS fan, that they put a deadline on it.

Manny wants to be a Yankee so he is waiting to see if he gets blown away money wise by another team. If the Yanks get Manny I wouldn't be surprised if we traded Andujar for a top pitcher. They are not going to trade Gleyber.

In comment 14255258 mdthedream said:

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Manny wants to be a Yankee so he is waiting to see if he gets blown away money wise by another team. If the Yanks get Manny I wouldn't be surprised if we traded Andujar for a top pitcher. They are not going to trade Gleyber.

I think that too and it would be hilarious if the White Sox pulled their offer after X date. They can tell their fanbase they tried and didn't want to get dicked around. I know i'd respect that.

Quote:

The prevailing feeling across the MLB landscape is that momentum is building for the White Sox in the Manny Machado sweepstakes. The Yankees and Phillies are the two other known serious suitors for the 26-year-old Machado, who's considered the prize of free agency alongside star outfielder Bryce Harper. Machado is expected to make a decision within a week, sources said, as all three of the aforementioned teams have made bids and would like an answers soon. There may be a fourth, unknown team in the Machado bidding, agent sources said.

Link - ( New Window )

his bat was arguably the best on the team last year in terms of consistent impact over time. But the defensive liability is what it is, at least at this point, so he's not likely to pull a front end starter. If he improves to somewhere in the vicinity of a league average defender this year I think it's a different conversation, but if that's the case they'd probably be a lot less likely to deal him.

I don't want to deal Gleyber and I wouldn't, but that is what the Indians are going to want for Corey Kluber.

In comment 14255295 Dunedin81 said:

Quote:

his bat was arguably the best on the team last year in terms of consistent impact over time. But the defensive liability is what it is, at least at this point, so he's not likely to pull a front end starter. If he improves to somewhere in the vicinity of a league average defender this year I think it's a different conversation, but if that's the case they'd probably be a lot less likely to deal him. I don't want to deal Gleyber and I wouldn't, but that is what the Indians are going to want for Corey Kluber.

I highly doubt Gleyber is going any where, he is a rising super-star and I'm sure Cashman knows that

In comment 14255236 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

was convincing Yankee fans that they should run their club like a mid market franchise and concern themselves with the luxury tax. This chart says it all. They shed payroll with the specter of Machado and Harper being free agents as they enter their prime. This is exactly who the NY Yankees should be signing. If the Yankees miss out on both, I really hope that the rumors that Hal was looking at selling the Yankees comes to fruition and he gets out. He's a bean counter. He's not his father and with the passing of this mother, there are no Earthly ties for him to keep "the Mona Lisa" as George called them.

This might win the award for the most off-base post in the thread.

Context matters. Throwing out numbers because they appear to make your case without placing them in proper context is the equivalent of claiming an apple is an orange because both are fruits.

Revenue for ALL MLB teams is up dramatically as the new contracts for TV contracts have resulted in new streams of revenue for teams. Thus, it is not just the Yanks rolling in money- but all of them are.

There are other reasons to cut payroll as well. Why pay other teams your money in luxury taxes? I don't think you would willingly give your co-workers a slice of your paycheck just because they make less than you do. Why should any owner do that?

In addition, the Yanks need to keep an eye on future CBA negotiations. The luxury tax, IFA hard caps and draft caps are all aimed at the Yanks and big money teams. The Yanks have been able to successfully hold off full revenue sharing (like the NFL and NBA owners must do) and have avoided a salary cap.

If the Yanks decided to spend like drunk sailors, there is no doubt that the small and mid-market owners (who constitute a majority of the owners) would demand one or both of these under the argument that they cannot survive or compete against such spending.

The Yanks are taking every step to take away their opponents ammunition- they got under the luxury tax line, they have not set the market in FA out of range of the smaller market teams, and they bring in big revenue when they travel- an argument against revenue sharing.

Finally, the Yanks spend a LOT of money on the team outside of payroll- minor league coaching and facilities, new stadium spending and financing (remember, the Stadium isn't free- they have a mortgage on it), scouting and many other areas some teams skimp on. Payroll is not the total spending by the Yanks- and is likely just a small fraction of total spending by the team.

This narrowly focused argument that ignores all other factors outside of revenue and payroll is just a "look at me" platform for the whiny fan to make the argument that they are not acting self-entitled ("they have the money, why shouldn't I expect them to spend it so I can enjoy it") and failing miserably at it.

up our asses.... For the last few years the Front Office has claimed they wanted to get under the threshold for the Luxury tax. Once they did it would put them in position to be a very active in FA and turn this team into a powerhouse again.

Well, they havent done crap. I know they dont want all the long contracts but then why go and get Stanton??

Meanwhile Houston and Boston have been active and won titles.

Right now they are 4M over. If they don't sign Manny or Harper they can get under it by trading Gray and his 9M for prospects. Do not underestimate Hal wanting to stay under it.

since I don't believe in Yankee fan vs. Yankee fan battles (nor Giants fan vs. Giants fan battles) as we all root for the best for our teams, I would agree with you if the argument is to sign both Machado and Harper because screw the rest of the league. But when you get a guy like Machado, who is entering his prime, plays at an area of need, can play in the AL East, and has postseason experience, all things being equal in the bids, yes, you do flex your financial might to seal the deal. At this point, nothing has happened, so we don't know either way what's going on. But if the Yankees go into the season with Tulo as their main plan, after it was insinuated for years that the goal to get under the luxury tax in time for 2019 (with a clear nod to the free agency class) and come away with nothing, is not a good look for Hal or Cash or any of them.

If Harper and Machado in their mid 20s can't get the teams to spend money when franchises are more flush with cash than ever, I'm not sure what player will do it. Trout? Betts? Maybe, but I'm sure we'll hear the same excuses whenever their time comes. The market for Machado is three teams! That's unbelievable. The system needs to be overhauled.

of the money spent or percentage of revenue spent on players, this Yankee team is a very good product being put on the field by management. They have so many talented players that are also nice guys/kids and really easy to root for.

I want Machado, Harper, Corbin, Noah, Kluber and etc - but I am more than fine with NYY as currently constructed.

This makes no sense:

Quote:

IMO they all blew smoke Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11:47 am : link : reply up our asses.... For the last few years the Front Office has claimed they wanted to get under the threshold for the Luxury tax. Once they did it would put them in position to be a very active in FA and turn this team into a powerhouse again. Well, they havent done crap. I know they dont want all the long contracts but then why go and get Stanton?? Meanwhile Houston and Boston have been active and won titles.

The Yankees supposedly "haven't done crap" but then they are called out for signing Stanton? And Boston and Houston are active, which is why they are winning titles?

The Yanks haven't been active?

to see if a starting pitcher shakes loose by a seller team in late July. Seems like the next opportunity to get an ace. Megabucks might be needed for this.

I get that argument that the Yankees don't want to create "backlash" rules in the next CBA by going overboard now as I do believe many of the rules in place might as well just be called the Yankees Rule; but the CBA is not a one sided document. Just because the middle tier teams would be "outraged" by the Yankees spending, I don't think the drastic measures you mention will be allowed by the players union in the next negotiation.

As things stand right now, I would be surprised if there isn't some sort of work stoppage prior to agreeing on the next CBA. The current CBA is absolutely broken. Record revenues are being produced year over year while player payrolls have been lowered by 20 teams from 2017 to 2018 and looking like it will continue to be lowered for 2019. When you have guys like Mike Moustakas who cant even find 8 mil a year type contract, the current agreement will most definitely be called into question. I believe (and many have written) that the luxury tax thresholds all stand to be extremely inflated come next round of negotiations. So one could say us arguing about the financial restrictions the signing of Machado or Harper would create when we have to eventually pay large amounts to guys like Gleyber Torres / Sanchez/ Judge etc. in the future could end up being null and void because by the time those guys contracts actually do get expensive the tax threshold may be no where near where it is today.

Also, the argument that the Yankees are funding these other teams through luxury tax is also a joke; the luxury tax bill each year has been at an absolute maximum of $30M. That means the Yanks would have paid $1M max in a year to every team in baseball, chump change, and that isn't even how the tax money actually gets distributed.

I don't want to sound like I'm attacking you specifically, but the magnitude of the luxury tax inhibiting a team financially is so overblown its absurd at this point and the current financial system the league is based on may be drastically different in a very short time. Add on the fact that you have teams that are flat out tanking now, the market for low to mid level players is all but gone when the best teams are hamstrung by the tax and the bad teams don't want to spend on marginal talent. Something will have to give in the current state of baseball.

with the assumption that things will continue as they've been, there will be a work stoppage.

If owners go into the next CBA appreciating that some form of reapportionment of revenue is going to be necessary and the conversation is about managing it (payroll floors, increases in minimum salaries across the board, movement on a luxury tax, etc etc) it may still be contentious but it wouldn't necessarily result in a strike.

In comment 14255419 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

This makes no sense: Quote: IMO they all blew smoke Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11:47 am : link : reply up our asses.... For the last few years the Front Office has claimed they wanted to get under the threshold for the Luxury tax. Once they did it would put them in position to be a very active in FA and turn this team into a powerhouse again. Well, they havent done crap. I know they dont want all the long contracts but then why go and get Stanton?? Meanwhile Houston and Boston have been active and won titles. The Yankees supposedly "haven't done crap" but then they are called out for signing Stanton? And Boston and Houston are active, which is why they are winning titles? The Yanks haven't been active?

ok.. let me re-word that

the Yanks havent done crap THIS year but sign their own and make one trade. We still need SP and have no LH bats other than Hicks and Gardner with Didi being out...

I wasnt a fan of the Stanton move because I feared it would mess with future signings.

The Yanks as currently constructed will not beat Houston or Boston.

is due to owners realizing they were overpaying for production or lack of it. Many of these high paid FA signings have been abysmal.

Guys are still paid very well. But the days of 10 year deals with outrageous money are waning. Poor risk and hurts the team . Harper and Machado don't guarantee a WS. You need more then one guy to put you over the top and it will be hard to get the other players when you dole out 30 million plus per year 10 year deals.

The only leverage players have is a threat of a strike. But most players are well paid considered their production. Time is fleeting for their careers. I doubt they will hold out because a Harper doesn't get 400 million. They will never sniff that payday

because fans are paying more and more money and it isn't to just watch baseball. It's to watch the best baseball players on the planet. The best on the planet deserve to be paid for the entertainment they provide and the lifetime of dedication put in to their craft. Period.

One chart doesn't sniff the whole story but I believe it fairly reinforces the ongoing efforts by franchise owners to minimize the cost of running their franchises. They were saved after the last lockout by turning a blind-eye to PED use and then hung those players out to dry. They are now taking it a step further and potentially colluding (as they did in the 80s) in preparation for 2021.

As a fan, I hate that I even have to read about any of this crap. I don't actually care beyond hoping for the continued growth of MLB worldwide.

In comment 14255620 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:

Quote:

In comment 14255419 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: This makes no sense: Quote: IMO they all blew smoke Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 11:47 am : link : reply up our asses.... For the last few years the Front Office has claimed they wanted to get under the threshold for the Luxury tax. Once they did it would put them in position to be a very active in FA and turn this team into a powerhouse again. Well, they havent done crap. I know they dont want all the long contracts but then why go and get Stanton?? Meanwhile Houston and Boston have been active and won titles. The Yankees supposedly "haven't done crap" but then they are called out for signing Stanton? And Boston and Houston are active, which is why they are winning titles? The Yanks haven't been active? ok.. let me re-word that the Yanks havent done crap THIS year but sign their own and make one trade. We still need SP and have no LH bats other than Hicks and Gardner with Didi being out... I wasnt a fan of the Stanton move because I feared it would mess with future signings. The Yanks as currently constructed will not beat Houston or Boston.

Over 70% of the FAs haven't even signed yet. You act like Spring Training is tomorrow. Hell, there will still be players out there in ST. Stop panicking. Britton wasn't their own cause he was a FA. Boston and Houston haven't gone out and done a ton either. The trade you mention was for a FRONT LINE STARTER so it wasn't just one trade since you badly want starting pitching. And where will these LH bats you want play? Seriously, chill out dude. They won 100 games last year. They kind of are a powerhouse with gasp...young players who will get better rather than an old free agent driven team.

This notion that the Yankees suck from Yankees fan might be the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life.

are smarter now. In the past they would pay for what a player has done in the past. With analytics they are seeing how production will decrease.

In comment 14255328 rich in DC said:

Quote:

In comment 14255236 Matt in SGS said: Quote: was convincing Yankee fans that they should run their club like a mid market franchise and concern themselves with the luxury tax. This chart says it all. They shed payroll with the specter of Machado and Harper being free agents as they enter their prime. This is exactly who the NY Yankees should be signing. If the Yankees miss out on both, I really hope that the rumors that Hal was looking at selling the Yankees comes to fruition and he gets out. He's a bean counter. He's not his father and with the passing of this mother, there are no Earthly ties for him to keep "the Mona Lisa" as George called them. This might win the award for the most off-base post in the thread. Context matters. Throwing out numbers because they appear to make your case without placing them in proper context is the equivalent of claiming an apple is an orange because both are fruits. Revenue for ALL MLB teams is up dramatically as the new contracts for TV contracts have resulted in new streams of revenue for teams. Thus, it is not just the Yanks rolling in money- but all of them are. There are other reasons to cut payroll as well. Why pay other teams your money in luxury taxes? I don't think you would willingly give your co-workers a slice of your paycheck just because they make less than you do. Why should any owner do that? In addition, the Yanks need to keep an eye on future CBA negotiations. The luxury tax, IFA hard caps and draft caps are all aimed at the Yanks and big money teams. The Yanks have been able to successfully hold off full revenue sharing (like the NFL and NBA owners must do) and have avoided a salary cap. If the Yanks decided to spend like drunk sailors, there is no doubt that the small and mid-market owners (who constitute a majority of the owners) would demand one or both of these under the argument that they cannot survive or compete against such spending. The Yanks are taking every step to take away their opponents ammunition- they got under the luxury tax line, they have not set the market in FA out of range of the smaller market teams, and they bring in big revenue when they travel- an argument against revenue sharing. Finally, the Yanks spend a LOT of money on the team outside of payroll- minor league coaching and facilities, new stadium spending and financing (remember, the Stadium isn't free- they have a mortgage on it), scouting and many other areas some teams skimp on. Payroll is not the total spending by the Yanks- and is likely just a small fraction of total spending by the team. This narrowly focused argument that ignores all other factors outside of revenue and payroll is just a "look at me" platform for the whiny fan to make the argument that they are not acting self-entitled ("they have the money, why shouldn't I expect them to spend it so I can enjoy it") and failing miserably at it.

Good points Rich but one you didn't mention might be even more important to the bottom line that Hal works for. That is his attempt to rebuy a large portion of the YES Network that he stupidly sold some years back. And,although as fans, this is an afterthought, it becomes a huge expenditure for the Yankees & where Hal is concentrating on spending Yankee money!

In comment 14255655 RasputinPrime said:

Quote:

because fans are paying more and more money and it isn't to just watch baseball. It's to watch the best baseball players on the planet. The best on the planet deserve to be paid for the entertainment they provide and the lifetime of dedication put in to their craft. Period. One chart doesn't sniff the whole story but I believe it fairly reinforces the ongoing efforts by franchise owners to minimize the cost of running their franchises. They were saved after the last lockout by turning a blind-eye to PED use and then hung those players out to dry. They are now taking it a step further and potentially colluding (as they did in the 80s) in preparation for 2021. As a fan, I hate that I even have to read about any of this crap. I don't actually care beyond hoping for the continued growth of MLB worldwide.

If you think fans will side with players in a work stoppage cause Harper and Machado can't get 10 year $350 million dollar deals, you are probably sadly mistaken. Never have fans thought players deserve more and would support them in a strike. Yet fans don't really care if the owners pocket more money. It's just the way fans are.

they just don't match up with Houston and Boston right now.

Who wants to win 100 games and not win the division.

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Word is, Machado camp still seeking 300M plus. ChiSox, Phillies not believed to be close to that ask (though exact current offers aren�t known, and can change). Meanwhile, Yanks, believed to be preferred destination, have yet to make official offer. Still no word of mystery team.

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You can cherry pick statistics all you want, but player salaries as taken as an average among all MLB players have gone nowhere but up. As long as that's the case there won't be support for a strike because a handful of free agents couldn't get $300 million. I suspect the players are more concerned that mid tier players like Todd Frazier and Steven Drew couldn't get a single offer but even that caused no talk of a strike.

The Players association has themselves to blame. They've rubber stamped increasing draconian revenue sharing and luxury tax in each successive CBA agreement. By doing so they were biting that hands that were feeding them, those hands being the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers.

In comment 14255714 Ron from Ninerland said:

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The Players association has themselves to blame. They've rubber stamped increasing draconian revenue sharing and luxury tax in each successive CBA agreement. By doing so they were biting that hands that were feeding them, those hands being the Yankees, Red Sox and Dodgers.

theres actually a good article on Fangraphs posted today that basically shows that the extreme-large market teams are exploiting the latest CBA into increasing revenues than years before because of the so-called "concessions" they gave the small market teams by increasing the penalties of the luxury tax / limiting the amount the tax level raises year to year. In short the large market teams accepted much harsher penalties in regards to luxury tax in order to eliminate a "supplementary" revenue sharing plan that only the largest of the large market teams had to pay. Now the group of teams that had constituted the supplementary revenue sharing group have all gotten under the luxury tax threshold less the Red Sox so they are not affected by the increased penalties the latest CBA imposed and in return they get a much larger year to year gain on not having to contribute to the supplementary revenue sharing group that they had in the past.

A lot of dollars and cents in the article, but someway somehow at the end of the article through the manipulation of the system the Yankees now collect revenue sharing payments from the A's (although I still dont think I fully understand the article).
Fangraphs: A�s Revenue Sharing Money Heads Back to the Yankees - ( New Window )

Saying that Machado race is down to Phillies and White Sox and Yankees are out. Heyman said that the Yanks didn�t even offer a contract

In comment 14255968 BeckShepEli said:

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Saying that Machado race is down to Phillies and White Sox and Yankees are out. Heyman said that the Yanks didn�t even offer a contract

It seems like it's all but official that Machado won't be a Yankee. It's a real shame because guys like that don't hit FA every year and there aren't many paths left to drastically improving the team this offseason.

.

by the Yanks to pass on Machado. Unless you really hate the potential drama he would bring to the team by being on it.

In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Right,not adding a 26 year old superstar is a good move!SMFH

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In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Yea great job passing on a stud like this when we were told for a few years this was the year they were going all out to sign Harper or Machado. I�m sure people who spend good money on tickets want to watch Brett Gardner Aaron Hicks and Troy Tulowitzki replacement because that fragile guy who be on the 60 DL by may 15th I�m sure people will be ecstatic to watch Cc start against the world champs in August.

when a good chunk of baseball fans, including Yankee fans, can't stand Machado.

Disappointing if they're not going to be in on Machado or Harper. I was pretty convinced it was just a matter of time on Machado, but I guess it's just not a fit right now unless they move Andujar and perhaps they don't want to do that.

Could also be saving bullets for some mid-season moves. It's not like the Yanks are going to struggle without Machado - this was a 100 win team already and can be better if Sevy doesn't have a swoon and Paxton gives us what we are hoping for.

Eric Hubbs
@BarstoolHubbs
2m2 minutes ago
Looking forward to the �Hold Your Breath� right side of the Yankees infield for 2019!

At any moment Andujar could throw a ball into the upper deck. At the same time Tulo could rupture his achillies with any wrong step.

In comment 14255998 GiantsGorilla1980s said:

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In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: . Yea great job passing on a stud like this when we were told for a few years this was the year they were going all out to sign Harper or Machado. I�m sure people who spend good money on tickets want to watch Brett Gardner Aaron Hicks and Troy Tulowitzki replacement because that fragile guy who be on the 60 DL by may 15th I�m sure people will be ecstatic to watch Cc start against the world champs in August.

Hahahaha. You wrote all of that for nothing.

the third best team in the American League yet again.

Moves for Harper, Machado, and Corbin. But my concern is that they aren�t even really trying, or at least that�s how it seems...

In comment 14256009 bceagle05 said:

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the third best team in the American League yet again.

Hal is such a fucking douche bag. Ugh. Machado was the guy...

I know I'm just a spoiled Yankee fan, but I'm so disappointed.

In comment 14255998 GiantsGorilla1980s said:

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In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: . Yea great job passing on a stud like this when we were told for a few years this was the year they were going all out to sign Harper or Machado. I�m sure people who spend good money on tickets want to watch Brett Gardner Aaron Hicks and Troy Tulowitzki replacement because that fragile guy who be on the 60 DL by may 15th I�m sure people will be ecstatic to watch Cc start against the world champs in August.

This lie continues to be passed off as fact by fans- there was NO- repeat NO promise ever made by the Yanks that the Yanks would spend. Hal only said that the Yanks did not need a payroll over $200M to compete. He NEVER EVER promised that they would spend in FA.

That was an assumption by fans and media alike, who just assumed that this was going to lead to a spending spree.

I still think Machado should be signed, but no promise was EVER made by the team and people need to stop repeating this nonsense to justify their own desires.

We'll see what happens

Sorry Rich, but it has nothing to do about promises and assumptions, and everything to do with opportunity and resources. It doesn�t matter to me what the media and fans thought do to the luxury tax goal. It�s more about this. Very rarely do the talents like this but the free agent market at 26. And the Yankees are positioned better than anyone to add generational talent to an already loaded, but flawed roster. And it more and more looks like being very good and making money is more important to the ownership than winnering a championship.



In comment 14256018 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14255998 GiantsGorilla1980s said: Quote: In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: . Yea great job passing on a stud like this when we were told for a few years this was the year they were going all out to sign Harper or Machado. I�m sure people who spend good money on tickets want to watch Brett Gardner Aaron Hicks and Troy Tulowitzki replacement because that fragile guy who be on the 60 DL by may 15th I�m sure people will be ecstatic to watch Cc start against the world champs in August. This lie continues to be passed off as fact by fans- there was NO- repeat NO promise ever made by the Yanks that the Yanks would spend. Hal only said that the Yanks did not need a payroll over $200M to compete. He NEVER EVER promised that they would spend in FA. That was an assumption by fans and media alike, who just assumed that this was going to lead to a spending spree. I still think Machado should be signed, but no promise was EVER made by the team and people need to stop repeating this nonsense to justify their own desires.

for the Yankees. Not pursuing either one and, if true, not even making an offer?

and Machado to the Phillies without the Yankees making an offer to either, i'm going to be pissed off. I don't think we needed either of them but failing to compete for elite talent is beyond absurd. Much like their being too late to the IFA party.

In comment 14256026 LarmerTJR said:

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Sorry Rich, but it has nothing to do about promises and assumptions, and everything to do with opportunity and resources. It doesn�t matter to me what the media and fans thought do to the luxury tax goal. It�s more about this. Very rarely do the talents like this but the free agent market at 26. And the Yankees are positioned better than anyone to add generational talent to an already loaded, but flawed roster. And it more and more looks like being very good and making money is more important to the ownership than winnering a championship. In comment 14256018 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 14255998 GiantsGorilla1980s said: Quote: In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: . Yea great job passing on a stud like this when we were told for a few years this was the year they were going all out to sign Harper or Machado. I�m sure people who spend good money on tickets want to watch Brett Gardner Aaron Hicks and Troy Tulowitzki replacement because that fragile guy who be on the 60 DL by may 15th I�m sure people will be ecstatic to watch Cc start against the world champs in August. This lie continues to be passed off as fact by fans- there was NO- repeat NO promise ever made by the Yanks that the Yanks would spend. Hal only said that the Yanks did not need a payroll over $200M to compete. He NEVER EVER promised that they would spend in FA. That was an assumption by fans and media alike, who just assumed that this was going to lead to a spending spree. I still think Machado should be signed, but no promise was EVER made by the team and people need to stop repeating this nonsense to justify their own desires.

Ok. I see now. You are one of the "the Yanks make money so they should spend it to satisfy me" sheep. No problem- won't engage with you any further. No point in lowering myself to that level.

but the way you talk to people, you're already at a certain level.

Not saying I'm better, but you're acting like you're the Mother Teresa of Yankees fans. Very pompous.

Rich

What in my reponse warrented such a condescending response?

Don�t like opposing viewpoints? The suggestion the Yanks were positioned to make these moves?

But please don�t stoop to my level to respond...don�t belittle yourself.

I didn�t say the Yankees owe me anything. I said they have the resources to use an opportunity that doesn�t present itself very often in MLB. Maybe I like it when my favorite baseball team signs the best baseball players.

But by all means, please ignore everything I say going forward. I wouldn�t want you to lower your extremely high standards of discourse.


In comment 14256042 rich in DC said:

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In comment 14256026 LarmerTJR said: Quote: Sorry Rich, but it has nothing to do about promises and assumptions, and everything to do with opportunity and resources. It doesn�t matter to me what the media and fans thought do to the luxury tax goal. It�s more about this. Very rarely do the talents like this but the free agent market at 26. And the Yankees are positioned better than anyone to add generational talent to an already loaded, but flawed roster. And it more and more looks like being very good and making money is more important to the ownership than winnering a championship. In comment 14256018 rich in DC said: Quote: In comment 14255998 GiantsGorilla1980s said: Quote: In comment 14255982 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: . Yea great job passing on a stud like this when we were told for a few years this was the year they were going all out to sign Harper or Machado. I�m sure people who spend good money on tickets want to watch Brett Gardner Aaron Hicks and Troy Tulowitzki replacement because that fragile guy who be on the 60 DL by may 15th I�m sure people will be ecstatic to watch Cc start against the world champs in August. This lie continues to be passed off as fact by fans- there was NO- repeat NO promise ever made by the Yanks that the Yanks would spend. Hal only said that the Yanks did not need a payroll over $200M to compete. He NEVER EVER promised that they would spend in FA. That was an assumption by fans and media alike, who just assumed that this was going to lead to a spending spree. I still think Machado should be signed, but no promise was EVER made by the team and people need to stop repeating this nonsense to justify their own desires. Ok. I see now. You are one of the "the Yanks make money so they should spend it to satisfy me" sheep. No problem- won't engage with you any further. No point in lowering myself to that level.

level Rich? You are on a message board for NY Giants football fans what elite level do you believe yourself to be on?

In comment 14255156 GMAN4LIFE said:

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Starting pitching!!!!!!

Yanks don�t really need starting pitching as much as they, along with many other teams, need that one HOF bad ass starting pitcher. There�s a difference. They have the staff to win 100 games again but we don�t know if they have that guy for that one game. They didn�t last Year.

A lot of offseason left...

In comment 14256025 Greg from LI said:

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We'll see what happens

This

Calm the fuck down people.

In comment 14256188 Hsilwek92 said:

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In comment 14256025 Greg from LI said: Quote: We'll see what happens This Calm the fuck down people.

He�s a reputable reporter, especially when it pertains to players of Dominican descent. He broke the Cano PED story and recently was ahead of Nelson Cruz�s FA dealings.

I would not simply disregard this guy as fake news, he is connected to the Latino sports community.

That does not mean NYY is out on Machado because Cashman is a ninja... Let's see where this lands.

consistently comes across as an asshole on these threads. What's hilarious is the he fancies himself some kind of Yankee "intellectual" when in reality he's an absolute moron.

Not only that but he literally appears to have been brainwashed by Hal Steinbrenner and is outraged that an Yankee fan would be "stupid" enough to believe that Hal should invest some of the $600 million in annual revenue back into the team.

Rich, just do everyone a favor and stop polluting on these threads with your condescension and lengthy drivel.

In comment 14256198 Strahan91 said:

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In comment 14256188 Hsilwek92 said: Quote: In comment 14256025 Greg from LI said: Quote: We'll see what happens This Calm the fuck down people. He�s a reputable reporter, especially when it pertains to players of Dominican descent. He broke the Cano PED story and recently was ahead of Nelson Cruz�s FA dealings.

I�m not saying he isn�t and, from what I can tell, neither is Greg.

What I�m saying is simple, relax. People are literally here, on this thread arguing and getting bent out of shape about stuff they�re presuming will happen or should�ve happened by now. It�s January 9th. No team in the league has made a blockbuster signing yet, unless you count Corbin (I don�t).

It all just seems silly to me.

Realmuto�s name has been talked about more this offseason than Machado and Harper.

is what that should have said

No way Hal authorizes going that high.

this offseason has grown long, with no Giant playoffs, or competitve Knicks or Rangers. But, it is time only for comiseration because we're in the same boat, not sniping at each other. Yanks probably aren't done.

fans� reaction over the team�s perceived lack of total commitment to winning at all costs.

It�s like he�s related to Hal or something...

I am actually not too upset over this. I am still not happy Stanton�s on the team and of the belief that they�d be more aggressive in pursuing either Machado or Harper.

In comment 14256246 Phil in LA said:

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this offseason has grown long, with no Giant playoffs, or competitve Knicks or Rangers. But, it is time only for comiseration because we're in the same boat, not sniping at each other. Yanks probably aren't done.

Agreed. The monotony of a hot stove season that was supposed to be one of the greatest ever has made people a little stir crazy.

Mark Teixeira�s signing came out of no where.

over both Harper or Machado on my team anytime.

after saying "Enrique Wilson is our Third Baseman." We've also been told "Bubba Crosby is our CF" and "Nick Swisher is our 1B." None of that turned out to be true. So be patient, as long as players are unsigned, the Yanks are still in play.

offer a contract.

I could see not aggressively pursuing him, or not signing him at any cost. I could see being outbid. But not even an offer, even if it were to pale in either years or total value compared to competitors? If that ends up being the case, it would be very disappointing.

most reports are saying the White Sox are the only team to have offered him a contract so far. Or maybe Philly did very recently. The Yanks just might want to see what those two offer him first before matching or coming close to it with their own contract. I'll wait until both Machado and Harper sign elsewhere before getting pissed with Hal and the front office.

In comment 14256280 jcn56 said:

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offer a contract. I could see not aggressively pursuing him, or not signing him at any cost. I could see being outbid. But not even an offer, even if it were to pale in either years or total value compared to competitors? If that ends up being the case, it would be very disappointing.

This is exactly how I would feel. If someone pays him or Harper 400 million I wouldn�t blame the Yankees for saying no way to matching it but if the Yankees just showed no interest in either of them it would be pretty worrisome about the future. That being said, a few reports are coming out that the Yankees are still in it on Machado so hope remains.

let's wait to see how things play out before we get all pissed.

But this all fits with my belief that Machado has been a red herring all along and that Harper is the true target.

a little restraint and common sense. A few years ago this team could barley compete as they had too many old, often injured fading stars starting. At the time the team was handcuffed with what they could do because of the obscene contracts they had handed out to players like ARod, CC, Tex, Jacoby, etc. I think they will stay away from the 10 year mega-deals.

�Yankees haven't been very engaged on Machado since New Years, per multiple sources, but here's the thing: It's hard to get an offer from Cashman but when he strikes he strikes quickly, aggressively. Regardless of how this looks like it's going, I'm not ready to believe its over�

In comment 14256334 Milton said:

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But this all fits with my belief that Machado has been a red herring all along and that Harper is the true target.

This is Scott Boras we're talking about. He has a pet national reporter, and a good working relationship with the remainder. It is absolutely not in his business interest to keep Yankee interest quiet. If there was any indication whatsoever they were in, it would have been trumpeted to the ends of the earth.

In comment 14256350 Beer Man said:

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a little restraint and common sense. A few years ago this team could barley compete as they had too many old, often injured fading stars starting. At the time the team was handcuffed with what they could do because of the obscene contracts they had handed out to players like ARod, CC, Tex, Jacoby, etc. I think they will stay away from the 10 year mega-deals.

I'd agree with this completely if it weren't for the fact that there is a huge anomaly in the 2018 FA class-2 26 year old superstars available only for $$$. I cannot ever remember this scenario taking place in free agency. With the new style of contract,10 year contracts(And I don't believe either will get one) are really 4 year opt out,6 year opt out contracts w/both player & team having the options.So, old arguments about ARod type contracts are dead. Like others have said,waiting until Machado & Harper sign is the prudent thing to do, but if the Yankees don't sign either,you have to ask what type of commitment Hal has to #28. Now,as a businessman, he needs to put a winning product on the field to bring out the fan base but not going the extra mile (like the Red Sox did last year) to put your team over the top will elicit questions about Hal & his dedication to the bottom line. As I said in a previous post,the repurchase of the YES network after Hal stupidly sold a percentage of it,looms large when it comes to the distribution of Yankee money. Only time will tell!

for a lengthy discussion of the Yankees spending plans. I don't think people realistically expect them to be spending 150% of what the next closest team is spending. But coming off a Red Sox WS in which they were the biggest spender, in which they had a payroll tens of millions higher than the Yanks, and in which (significantly) they ate a lot of bad money, Yankee fans quite reasonably expect the Yankees to be a top 2-3 payroll and they expect them to at least be competitive in the bidding for premium FAs at positions of need (Machado).

Rich makes a lot of salient points. There was no promise of profligacy in this FA period, they never said they were going over the luxury tax threshold, and they still have a high payroll. And in everything that isn't reflected on player payroll (amateur scouting, player development, analytics) they're a trendsetter.

But if May 1 finds Machado with a .900 OPS and Tulowitzki on the DL, I think Yankee fans will be justified in their frustration. None of the cost-savings (relative or otherwise) has been passed along to fans - ticket prices are high and getting higher. We are not obligated to celebrate higher profit margins for the Steinbrothers.

Boras will give the Yankees every opportunity to end up being the winning bidder. That doesn�t mean the Yankees will WANT to be the winning bidder, but Cashman can afford to wait this out a little longer. No sense in throwing out some massive offer when no over team apparently is doing so either.

In comment 14256549 Dave in PA said:
[quote] Boras will give the Yankees every opportunity to end up being the winning bidder. That doesn�t mean the Yankees will WANT to be the winning bidder, but Cashman can afford to wait this out a little longer. No sense in throwing out some massive offer when no over team apparently is doing so either. [/quot

Boras represents Harper,not Manny!

In comment 14256561 TheMick7 said:

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In comment 14256549 Dave in PA said: [quote] Boras will give the Yankees every opportunity to end up being the winning bidder. That doesn�t mean the Yankees will WANT to be the winning bidder, but Cashman can afford to wait this out a little longer. No sense in throwing out some massive offer when no over team apparently is doing so either. [/quot Boras represents Harper,not Manny!

D�oh! Never mind then

Yankees fans should be pissed if the Yanks did not at least attempt to sign Manny. I can understand being out bid, but to not even attempt to work out a deal should be viewed with contempt and derision.
I for one am against 10 yrs/ $350(?) mill. But a 5/6/7 year deal with opt outs, etc should allow them to find a place that is financially sound (at least as far as paying a ball player could be).

Hal may look at it and say, doggone we won 100 games with a marginal starting pitching staff and Judge injured. We fixed it a bit so we should be good to go. But Didi is out. They don't know what happens at 1B. They don't know what in season injuries could happen. They don't know if Gary will rebound.
Look at what 7 weeks without Judge did... Manny's bat together with Stanton helps cover a long term injury.

Maybe fans need to be a bit more vocal.

In comment 14256571 section125 said:

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Yankees fans should be pissed if the Yanks did not at least attempt to sign Manny. I can understand being out bid, but to not even attempt to work out a deal should be viewed with contempt and derision. I for one am against 10 yrs/ $350(?) mill. But a 5/6/7 year deal with opt outs, etc should allow them to find a place that is financially sound (at least as far as paying a ball player could be). Hal may look at it and say, doggone we won 100 games with a marginal starting pitching staff and Judge injured. We fixed it a bit so we should be good to go. But Didi is out. They don't know what happens at 1B. They don't know what in season injuries could happen. They don't know if Gary will rebound. Look at what 7 weeks without Judge did... Manny's bat together with Stanton helps cover a long term injury. Maybe fans need to be a bit more vocal.

With the money that Hal makes from the YES network, I doubt he'll care.

To be an every day SS for at least 4 months. That�s just poor decision making

Right now the only "known" commodity in terms of infield defense is Gleyber Torres, who has the makings of a great defender but who made some mistakes.

Greg Bird is roughly league average at 1B.

Miguel Andujar is well below after and Luke Voit is a butcher. Could either improve? Sure. But if neither does they're in for a rough ride.

Tulo was a fantastic defender three years and a couple of heel operations ago. If he's healthy and if he's healed, he's still 34.

Infield defense may be the weakest link for this team.

In comment 14256582 Dave in PA said:

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To be an every day SS for at least 4 months. That�s just poor decision making

Remember, Cashman also talked about possibly shifting Torres from 2nd to SS.

In comment 14256591 GFAN52 said:

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In comment 14256582 Dave in PA said: Quote: To be an every day SS for at least 4 months. That�s just poor decision making Remember, Cashman also talked about possibly shifting Torres from 2nd to SS.

True that would seem to be the most prudent decision, but are we then turning Tulo into a 2B/SS combo? Is the 2B in this scenario even on the team right now? I�ve heard rumors of Josh Harrison, which could make sense in the short term. LeMahieu is a legit player but he�ll want a longer term deal and that doesn�t make sense for NY.

Lol @mets spending 20M on Robbie Cano in 2023

but has not demonstrated that he can hit his bodyweight.

In comment 14256628 Dave in PA said:

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In comment 14256591 GFAN52 said: Quote: In comment 14256582 Dave in PA said: Quote: To be an every day SS for at least 4 months. That�s just poor decision making Remember, Cashman also talked about possibly shifting Torres from 2nd to SS. True that would seem to be the most prudent decision, but are we then turning Tulo into a 2B/SS combo? Is the 2B in this scenario even on the team right now? I�ve heard rumors of Josh Harrison, which could make sense in the short term. LeMahieu is a legit player but he�ll want a longer term deal and that doesn�t make sense for NY.

Torres is the starting 2B and relief SS as of now. Cash must have thought taking Tulo at SS was better than any option at 2B and moving Torres to SS (stunting his growth at 2nd).
IMHO, Torres is the 2B of the future unless something catastrophic happens.

In comment 14256585 Dunedin81 said:

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Right now the only "known" commodity in terms of infield defense is Gleyber Torres, who has the makings of a great defender but who made some mistakes. Greg Bird is roughly league average at 1B. Miguel Andujar is well below after and Luke Voit is a butcher. Could either improve? Sure. But if neither does they're in for a rough ride. Tulo was a fantastic defender three years and a couple of heel operations ago. If he's healthy and if he's healed, he's still 34. Infield defense may be the weakest link for this team.

And with a team that still has question marks in the starting rotation, the last thing we need is a shaky infield defense that can't help the pitcher cut innings short and keep guys off base.

(and there are a few FAs available for that),it wouldn't completely surprise me(if they are committed to Gleyber at 2B) if Kyle Holder (former #1 pick who's not on the 40 & all teams passed on during the Rule 5 Draft) becomes the defensive backup. As Dunedin81 said,Wade can't hit a lick & neither can Holder but Holder is considered outstanding glove man, a major league SS from a defensive point.(And,added plus,it would save Hal $$$)

In comment 14256672 section125 said:

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In comment 14256628 Dave in PA said: Quote: In comment 14256591 GFAN52 said: Quote: In comment 14256582 Dave in PA said: Quote: To be an every day SS for at least 4 months. That�s just poor decision making Remember, Cashman also talked about possibly shifting Torres from 2nd to SS. True that would seem to be the most prudent decision, but are we then turning Tulo into a 2B/SS combo? Is the 2B in this scenario even on the team right now? I�ve heard rumors of Josh Harrison, which could make sense in the short term. LeMahieu is a legit player but he�ll want a longer term deal and that doesn�t make sense for NY. Torres is the starting 2B and relief SS as of now. Cash must have thought taking Tulo at SS was better than any option at 2B and moving Torres to SS (stunting his growth at 2nd). IMHO, Torres is the 2B of the future unless something catastrophic happens.

Who knows how durable Tulo will be is the big question. He could break down in Spring training for all we know.

In comment 14256684 TheMick7 said:

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(and there are a few FAs available for that),it wouldn't completely surprise me(if they are committed to Gleyber at 2B) if Kyle Holder (former #1 pick who's not on the 40 & all teams passed on during the Rule 5 Draft) becomes the defensive backup. As Dunedin81 said,Wade can't hit a lick & neither can Holder but Holder is considered outstanding glove man, a major league SS from a defensive point.(And,added plus,it would save Hal $$$)

That's an interesting thought. I'm not sure he's there yet, although he could be later in the year. They're probably more comfortable giving Wade a sustained look than rushing Holder, and Wade does provide the added bonus of speed, but it's something to think about.

he was a fringe Rule 5 candidate but they chose not to add him. Had they added him, there would have been a little more urgency.

He had the absolute year from hell last year, personally and professionally (he fractured a vertebrae and, as I understand it, his brother died), so hopefully everything will be better for him this time around.

In comment 14256480 TheMick7 said:

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In comment 14256350 Beer Man said: Quote: a little restraint and common sense. A few years ago this team could barley compete as they had too many old, often injured fading stars starting. At the time the team was handcuffed with what they could do because of the obscene contracts they had handed out to players like ARod, CC, Tex, Jacoby, etc. I think they will stay away from the 10 year mega-deals. I'd agree with this completely if it weren't for the fact that there is a huge anomaly in the 2018 FA class-2 26 year old superstars available only for $$$. I cannot ever remember this scenario taking place in free agency. With the new style of contract,10 year contracts(And I don't believe either will get one) are really 4 year opt out,6 year opt out contracts w/both player & team having the options.So, old arguments about ARod type contracts are dead. Like others have said,waiting until Machado & Harper sign is the prudent thing to do, but if the Yankees don't sign either,you have to ask what type of commitment Hal has to #28. Now,as a businessman, he needs to put a winning product on the field to bring out the fan base but not going the extra mile (like the Red Sox did last year) to put your team over the top will elicit questions about Hal & his dedication to the bottom line. As I said in a previous post,the repurchase of the YES network after Hal stupidly sold a percentage of it,looms large when it comes to the distribution of Yankee money. Only time will tell!

You also have to look at what the Yankees have paid in luxury taxes to date. I read an article today that said since 2003 the Yanks have paid $341M in luxury taxes, that's a lot of money to add on top of the enormous salaries already being paid to the players.

ha

revenues spent on player payroll, but here is an interesting analysis of it by a guest writer on RAB.

some interesting financial stats on the Yanks - ( New Window )

In comment 14256418 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 14256334 Milton said: Quote: But this all fits with my belief that Machado has been a red herring all along and that Harper is the true target. This is Scott Boras we're talking about. He has a pet national reporter, and a good working relationship with the remainder. It is absolutely not in his business interest to keep Yankee interest quiet. If there was any indication whatsoever they were in, it would have been trumpeted to the ends of the earth.

Well it wouldn't be much of a bluff if he clued Boras in on it. But Harper hasn't signed with anyone else yet and I think it's safe to say that Boras will make one last phone call before he does. He would make that call even if Machado signs with the Yankees, so you can bet he'll make it if Machado is still unsigned or worse yet (and more likely), has signed elsewhere. Until then, both sides are playing hard to get.

But when that phone call happens...
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