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Browns to hire Freddie Kitchens as HC

Anakim : 1/9/2019 12:00 pm
Chris Mortensen
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Verified account

@mortreport

Freddie Kitchens will be named new Browns head coach later today, per sources.
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Harbaugh..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2019 12:20 pm : link
was at least a coordinator for several years. And a coordinator in College as well as the NFL.

Big difference to position coach
RE: Good point...  
Jay on the Island : 1/9/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14255426 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:


Quote:


He wasn't even the OC for the whole season, he got promoted after they fired Haley.



We'll see how this plays out, but NFL history hasn't turned out well for these type of hires.

You're right. While I sort of understand their justification for hiring him I think that they should have hired someone else but kept Kitchens as OC.
Losing franchises lose..  
Sean : 1/9/2019 12:25 pm : link
Why should Baker have a factor in who the next HC is? This is why we always see the same few teams competing for a title.
I hate this hire, just as I hated GB's hire  
Chris684 : 1/9/2019 12:29 pm : link
and especially hated AZ's hire.

But time will tell.

Look how far Mike Mularkey has fallen  
Anakim : 1/9/2019 12:31 pm : link
He led the Titans to the playoffs in 2017, got canned and now is the TE coach of the Falcons
Bill Belichick must wake up laughing  
Go Terps : 1/9/2019 12:34 pm : link
When he starts the season he knows there are only about 7 or 8 teams with which he is actually competing. The rest of the teams rule themselves out through their own incompetence.
RE: I'm not..  
Beezer : 1/9/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14255394 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
sure the Browns are getting any better at this.

He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.

Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.


Lots of truth in that post.

But also, who the hell knows? Sometimes a guy is just ... the right fit.

I'm rooting for the Browns to have success. Hope this works out.
These HC hires are so uninspiring.  
BrettNYG10 : 1/9/2019 12:37 pm : link
.
RE: I'm not..  
Racer : 1/9/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14255394 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
sure the Browns are getting any better at this.


"Browns"
"Browns pre-Dorsey"
"Browns w/Dorsey"

Important distinction, no? I think comes down to the GM choosing somebody he thinks he can work with regarding roster construction, that will keep the locker room moving forward, and somebody who has a demonstrated rapport with Mayfield. Also, somebody that the dirtbag owner feels he can invite to social gatherings that won't ding his reputation. Williams might have fit in like Jake and Elwood in the French restaurant.
I just hope a guy like Wilks gets another shot...  
Chris684 : 1/9/2019 12:44 pm : link
These opportunities are so rare you can't pass them up.

Then you go to a place like Arizona and your first year as a head coach lines up with arguably the toughest schedule in the league, in one of the toughest divisions, with a rookie QB.

Talk about the short end of the stick.
Bruce Arians wanted to be the coach of the Browns  
Jints in Carolina : 1/9/2019 12:47 pm : link
and he wanted Kitchens as his OC. I guess the Browns thought that highly of Kitchens that they hired him as head coach.

Anthony Lynn of the Chargers, I don't believe, was ever more than a RB coach and he is doing very well.

I was just thinking of Arians  
jcn56 : 1/9/2019 12:50 pm : link
if you're a Browns fan, knowing that you had a shot at Arians as HC and Bowles as DC (who did a good job at that level and a decent job with the Jets defensively), how angry are you this morning?

I mean, how much *more* angry, since they're Browns fans...
I was reading a column  
Matt in SGS : 1/9/2019 12:52 pm : link
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
RE: I was reading a column  
Go Terps : 1/9/2019 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14255494 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.


Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Matt it's an interesting point because right now  
Chris684 : 1/9/2019 12:59 pm : link
John Fassel is probably the best in the league. I was very interested in him as a possibility last year but maybe for reasons beyond him NYG would never be realistic for him.

Toub in KC is another highly regarded ST coach.
RE: RE: I was reading a column  
jcn56 : 1/9/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14255505 Go Terps said:
Quote:

Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.


Good god that raises a scary thought...
RE: RE: I was reading a column  
81_Great_Dane : 1/9/2019 1:17 pm : link
In comment 14255505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
When you look at the Giants with Quinn as special teams coordinator, that would explain a lot. Most of it bad.
RE: RE: RE: I was reading a column  
Go Terps : 1/9/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14255548 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14255505 Go Terps said:


Quote:



Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.



Good god that raises a scary thought...


There's a great chapter in his book about a specific play - the second of Eric Metcalf's two punt return TDs against the Steelers in 1993. He outlines how the Browns' punt return unit is comprised of players the Browns deemed important (either starters or significant role players). He describes what those players do on this play, and how they outmatch the Steelers special teamers - many of whom are UDFAs or otherwise essentially afterthoughts on the Pittsburgh roster. The punt return is linked below. It's a great play by everyone involved...it was a fake middle return designed to go to the right sideline after a couple of deceiving initial steps from Metcalf.

That's one thing that really came across about Belichick in the book...the incredible emphasis on special teams. The attention to detail is incredible.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: I just hope a guy like Wilks gets another shot...  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/9/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14255478 Chris684 said:
Quote:
These opportunities are so rare you can't pass them up.

Then you go to a place like Arizona and your first year as a head coach lines up with arguably the toughest schedule in the league, in one of the toughest divisions, with a rookie QB.

Talk about the short end of the stick.


You forgot about the worst offensive line in all of football as well.
RE: Bill Belichick must wake up laughing  
BillKo : 1/9/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14255466 Go Terps said:
Quote:
When he starts the season he knows there are only about 7 or 8 teams with which he is actually competing. The rest of the teams rule themselves out through their own incompetence.


Funny, Bill Walsh is quoted as saying the same thing back in the 80s.

I guess things don't really change..........
RE: RE: I was reading a column  
BillKo : 1/9/2019 1:43 pm : link
In comment 14255505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14255494 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.



Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.


Small sample size, but I remember Ganz being a dud. Lasted only a couple years before being fired?

Harbaugh obviously has done a great job in BALT.
He's inexperienced  
HoodieGelo : 1/9/2019 1:48 pm : link
but I do like the move a lot. What they did the second half of the season was great. Last thing they need is to miss on yet another HC so instead of some outside higher they higher someone that WORKED. I'm all for it, good for them.
HIRE  
HoodieGelo : 1/9/2019 1:49 pm : link
HIRE, HIRE wow I missed my morning cup of coffee if you can't tell
I don't know  
MetsAreBack : 1/9/2019 2:03 pm : link
I'm not one to throw the race card around and as someone directly impacted, in my opinion unfairly but whatever, by the diversity movement in this country....

I find this years coaching selections (and even the Oakland GM hire) very troubling. Virtually all inexperienced, virtually all under 45 white males.
And in the cases of LaFleur and Kingsbury  
MetsAreBack : 1/9/2019 2:05 pm : link
Unproven doesn't even cover it ... they were not good at their prior jobs in 2018 (more years in Kingsbury case ... and LaFleur didn't even call the plays in La)
RE: Bill Belichick must wake up laughing  
Optimus-NY : 1/9/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14255466 Go Terps said:
Quote:
When he starts the season he knows there are only about 7 or 8 teams with which he is actually competing. The rest of the teams rule themselves out through their own incompetence.


Bill Walsh used to say that he was only competing against about 8 teams.
Walsh is where I got the quote  
Go Terps : 1/9/2019 2:23 pm : link
It is so, so true. It is unbelievably frustrating...our season is over at Columbus Day but there are teams whose real seasons don't even start until Thanksgiving.
RE: RE: I was reading a column  
santacruzom : 1/9/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14255505 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14255494 Matt in SGS said:


Quote:


and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.



Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.


That's aligned with something I've been wondering about: whether our deficit in player development can be traced to our special teams coaching.
I think of another Walsh quote..  
Sean : 1/9/2019 2:25 pm : link
“If we are all thinking alike, no one is thinking.” That is what is going on now with the hiring of these young, QB specialists.
Don't forget the Redskins hired Jim Zorn from the Seattle Seahawks...  
GFAN52 : 1/9/2019 2:28 pm : link
where he had only been the QB coach to be their OC only to then suddenly make him head coach.
RE: I don't know  
BillKo : 1/9/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14255652 MetsAreBack said:
Quote:
I'm not one to throw the race card around and as someone directly impacted, in my opinion unfairly but whatever, by the diversity movement in this country....

I find this years coaching selections (and even the Oakland GM hire) very troubling. Virtually all inexperienced, virtually all under 45 white males.


At least they are all old, white guys lol ;)
RE: RE: Baker is happy  
micky : 1/9/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14255381 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14255376 Oscar said:


Quote:


Had to be a huge factor.



Well, Baker likes to be in Kitchens


Cooking Brownies
at least he's been a coach in the league  
bluepepper : 1/9/2019 3:07 pm : link
for a long time. Since 2006. Probably more than a few position coaches could make the leap as the aforementioned Anthony Lynn has done. The head scratchers to me are the guys like Vrabel and LaFleur who have very little NFL coaching experience and a guy like Klingsbury who has none and a weak track record as a HC in college.
McCarthy turned down the Browns  
montanagiant : 1/9/2019 3:17 pm : link
because they wanted Kitchens as OC and McCarthy did not
There's two sides to everything..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2019 3:29 pm : link
and there's taking the contrarian view to do what nobody else is doing.

Part of the reason the NFL tends to go with the "safe" choices is because it is very costly to experience failure. Kitchens could become a good HC. He could be a terrible HC. He could be a mediocre HC. For the Browns organization, if he isn't a good HC, they won't make strides forward.

It is kind of like the Josh Allen analysis last year. For him to stay a successful starter, he'll have to buck history that says the majority of QB's that have poor completion % in college will not make it in the NFL. And by majority, I think it was like 2 guys out of 37 had mediocre careers.

Kitchens is basically a lottery ticket. If you are the Browns and are looking to have sustained success under Mayfield, is that really the wisest choice?
RE: RE: I'm not..  
Pepe LePugh : 1/9/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14255472 Racer said:
Quote:
In comment 14255394 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


sure the Browns are getting any better at this.


"Browns"
"Browns pre-Dorsey"
"Browns w/Dorsey"

Important distinction, no? I think comes down to the GM choosing somebody he thinks he can work with regarding roster construction, that will keep the locker room moving forward, and somebody who has a demonstrated rapport with Mayfield. Also, somebody that the dirtbag owner feels he can invite to social gatherings that won't ding his reputation. Williams might have fit in like Jake and Elwood in the French restaurant.


Listening to Cleveland ESPN. It leaked out that search committee had Dorsey and 5 others with equal voice. Kitchens is an analytics guy, and appeals to the faction that is trying to run the Browns on statistics rather than football savvy, primarily Di Podesta.
Browns being Browns.
Historically, promoting from within doesn’t work  
Sean : 1/9/2019 6:42 pm : link
That article is prettying telling. With Belichick, coordinators come & go and the program doesn’t suffer. Here, the Browns couldn’t fathom losing Freddie Kitchens.
Link - ( New Window )
Why didn't they just keep Gregg Williams?  
FStubbs : 1/9/2019 7:28 pm : link
I thought he had earned the job.
So much for continuity...  
MetsAreBack : 1/9/2019 7:38 pm : link
Most of the Browns staff was let go this evening, including Ken Zampese who was QBs coach.

Browns seem like an incredibly political organization. Like, Redskins light.

As much young talent as they have, perhaps McCarthy wasn't being completely self-serving when he said he would only coach the Jets. As much talent as they have, it doesnt stick together all that long before salary cap and free agency hits... hope for their sake Mayfield overcomes a lot of the bullshit.

RE: at least he's been a coach in the league  
FStubbs : 1/9/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14255754 bluepepper said:
Quote:
for a long time. Since 2006. Probably more than a few position coaches could make the leap as the aforementioned Anthony Lynn has done. The head scratchers to me are the guys like Vrabel and LaFleur who have very little NFL coaching experience and a guy like Klingsbury who has none and a weak track record as a HC in college.


Andy Reid is the best example of a position coach who jumped to head coach and he's done quite well obviously.
---  
Peppers : 1/9/2019 8:34 pm : link
The familiarity and rapport with Baker was a big reason why.

Technically...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2019 8:55 pm : link
Reid wasn't just a position coach. He was an offensive assistant for two years and an assistant HC for two years.

Successful HC's who were position coaches are very rare.
Sounds like a bunch of Malarkey ..  
Manny in CA : 1/9/2019 9:02 pm : link

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/10/12/162791655/whats-all-this-malarkey-about-malarkey
Umm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/9/2019 9:04 pm : link
what the fuck is that link for?

It literally pertains to nothing.
now they're  
madgiantscow009 : 1/9/2019 9:10 pm : link
cooking.
RE: Umm..  
MetsAreBack : 1/10/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14256150 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
what the fuck is that link for?

It literally pertains to nothing.


Manny being Manny... BBI's resident pot head.
Copy Cat league  
joeinpa : 1/10/2019 9:46 am : link
All trying to be Rams
RE: Why didn't they just keep Gregg Williams?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/10/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14256032 FStubbs said:
Quote:
I thought he had earned the job.


Williams has a lousy reputation and an attitude.
You could..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/10/2019 9:49 am : link
make a case that Williams (and by extension Payton) should have been barred from coaching in the NFL.

Williams has advocated intentionally injuring players several times in his career.
Browns  
PaulN : 1/10/2019 5:23 pm : link
Being fucking idiots once again.
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