This guy was a RB coach until this November. Talk about a meteoric rise. I get that he's popular but I don't see how anyone can be prepared given the timeframe.
He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.
Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.
He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.
Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.
He wasn't even the OC for the whole season, he got promoted after they fired Haley. They might as well consider hiring Condoleeza....oh right. Browns.
So why didn't they make him interim HC during the season Â
One player basically gets to select (or is the reason behind) which head coach is hired. Leadership, culture building...these seem to take a back seat to making the QB happy.
When he starts the season he knows there are only about 7 or 8 teams with which he is actually competing. The rest of the teams rule themselves out through their own incompetence.
He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.
Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.
Lots of truth in that post.
But also, who the hell knows? Sometimes a guy is just ... the right fit.
I'm rooting for the Browns to have success. Hope this works out.
Important distinction, no? I think comes down to the GM choosing somebody he thinks he can work with regarding roster construction, that will keep the locker room moving forward, and somebody who has a demonstrated rapport with Mayfield. Also, somebody that the dirtbag owner feels he can invite to social gatherings that won't ding his reputation. Williams might have fit in like Jake and Elwood in the French restaurant.
I just hope a guy like Wilks gets another shot... Â
These opportunities are so rare you can't pass them up.
Then you go to a place like Arizona and your first year as a head coach lines up with arguably the toughest schedule in the league, in one of the toughest divisions, with a rookie QB.
Talk about the short end of the stick.
Bruce Arians wanted to be the coach of the Browns Â
if you're a Browns fan, knowing that you had a shot at Arians as HC and Bowles as DC (who did a good job at that level and a decent job with the Jets defensively), how angry are you this morning?
I mean, how much *more* angry, since they're Browns fans...
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Matt it's an interesting point because right now Â
John Fassel is probably the best in the league. I was very interested in him as a possibility last year but maybe for reasons beyond him NYG would never be realistic for him.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
When you look at the Giants with Quinn as special teams coordinator, that would explain a lot. Most of it bad.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Good god that raises a scary thought...
There's a great chapter in his book about a specific play - the second of Eric Metcalf's two punt return TDs against the Steelers in 1993. He outlines how the Browns' punt return unit is comprised of players the Browns deemed important (either starters or significant role players). He describes what those players do on this play, and how they outmatch the Steelers special teamers - many of whom are UDFAs or otherwise essentially afterthoughts on the Pittsburgh roster. The punt return is linked below. It's a great play by everyone involved...it was a fake middle return designed to go to the right sideline after a couple of deceiving initial steps from Metcalf.
That's one thing that really came across about Belichick in the book...the incredible emphasis on special teams. The attention to detail is incredible. Link - ( New Window )
RE: I just hope a guy like Wilks gets another shot... Â
These opportunities are so rare you can't pass them up.
Then you go to a place like Arizona and your first year as a head coach lines up with arguably the toughest schedule in the league, in one of the toughest divisions, with a rookie QB.
Talk about the short end of the stick.
You forgot about the worst offensive line in all of football as well.
When he starts the season he knows there are only about 7 or 8 teams with which he is actually competing. The rest of the teams rule themselves out through their own incompetence.
Funny, Bill Walsh is quoted as saying the same thing back in the 80s.
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Small sample size, but I remember Ganz being a dud. Lasted only a couple years before being fired?
but I do like the move a lot. What they did the second half of the season was great. Last thing they need is to miss on yet another HC so instead of some outside higher they higher someone that WORKED. I'm all for it, good for them.
I'm not one to throw the race card around and as someone directly impacted, in my opinion unfairly but whatever, by the diversity movement in this country....
I find this years coaching selections (and even the Oakland GM hire) very troubling. Virtually all inexperienced, virtually all under 45 white males.
Unproven doesn't even cover it ... they were not good at their prior jobs in 2018 (more years in Kingsbury case ... and LaFleur didn't even call the plays in La)
When he starts the season he knows there are only about 7 or 8 teams with which he is actually competing. The rest of the teams rule themselves out through their own incompetence.
Bill Walsh used to say that he was only competing against about 8 teams.
It is so, so true. It is unbelievably frustrating...our season is over at Columbus Day but there are teams whose real seasons don't even start until Thanksgiving.
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
That's aligned with something I've been wondering about: whether our deficit in player development can be traced to our special teams coaching.
I'm not one to throw the race card around and as someone directly impacted, in my opinion unfairly but whatever, by the diversity movement in this country....
I find this years coaching selections (and even the Oakland GM hire) very troubling. Virtually all inexperienced, virtually all under 45 white males.
for a long time. Since 2006. Probably more than a few position coaches could make the leap as the aforementioned Anthony Lynn has done. The head scratchers to me are the guys like Vrabel and LaFleur who have very little NFL coaching experience and a guy like Klingsbury who has none and a weak track record as a HC in college.
and there's taking the contrarian view to do what nobody else is doing.
Part of the reason the NFL tends to go with the "safe" choices is because it is very costly to experience failure. Kitchens could become a good HC. He could be a terrible HC. He could be a mediocre HC. For the Browns organization, if he isn't a good HC, they won't make strides forward.
It is kind of like the Josh Allen analysis last year. For him to stay a successful starter, he'll have to buck history that says the majority of QB's that have poor completion % in college will not make it in the NFL. And by majority, I think it was like 2 guys out of 37 had mediocre careers.
Kitchens is basically a lottery ticket. If you are the Browns and are looking to have sustained success under Mayfield, is that really the wisest choice?
Important distinction, no? I think comes down to the GM choosing somebody he thinks he can work with regarding roster construction, that will keep the locker room moving forward, and somebody who has a demonstrated rapport with Mayfield. Also, somebody that the dirtbag owner feels he can invite to social gatherings that won't ding his reputation. Williams might have fit in like Jake and Elwood in the French restaurant.
Listening to Cleveland ESPN. It leaked out that search committee had Dorsey and 5 others with equal voice. Kitchens is an analytics guy, and appeals to the faction that is trying to run the Browns on statistics rather than football savvy, primarily Di Podesta.
Browns being Browns.
Historically, promoting from within doesn’t work Â
That article is prettying telling. With Belichick, coordinators come & go and the program doesn’t suffer. Here, the Browns couldn’t fathom losing Freddie Kitchens. Link - ( New Window )
Most of the Browns staff was let go this evening, including Ken Zampese who was QBs coach.
Browns seem like an incredibly political organization. Like, Redskins light.
As much young talent as they have, perhaps McCarthy wasn't being completely self-serving when he said he would only coach the Jets. As much talent as they have, it doesnt stick together all that long before salary cap and free agency hits... hope for their sake Mayfield overcomes a lot of the bullshit.
for a long time. Since 2006. Probably more than a few position coaches could make the leap as the aforementioned Anthony Lynn has done. The head scratchers to me are the guys like Vrabel and LaFleur who have very little NFL coaching experience and a guy like Klingsbury who has none and a weak track record as a HC in college.
Andy Reid is the best example of a position coach who jumped to head coach and he's done quite well obviously.
Well, Baker likes to be in Kitchens
Quote:
Had to be a huge factor.
Well, Baker likes to be in Kitchens
Ohhhh, Anak.....
He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.
Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.
Quote:
Had to be a huge factor.
Well, Baker likes to be in Kitchens
He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.
Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.
He wasn't even the OC for the whole season, he got promoted after they fired Haley. They might as well consider hiring Condoleeza....oh right. Browns.
Eagles special teams coach
Glad he got fired too. Talk about someone who has a very high opinion of themselves.
We'll see how this plays out, but NFL history hasn't turned out well for these type of hires.
Big difference to position coach
Quote:
He wasn't even the OC for the whole season, he got promoted after they fired Haley.
We'll see how this plays out, but NFL history hasn't turned out well for these type of hires.
You're right. While I sort of understand their justification for hiring him I think that they should have hired someone else but kept Kitchens as OC.
But time will tell.
He was OC for a season. The jump to HC is significant and prior to 2018, he was never anything more than a position coach.
Being a HC usually requires either a bit more experience, or he has some untapped proficiency at designing an offense. Didn't really see that this year.
Lots of truth in that post.
But also, who the hell knows? Sometimes a guy is just ... the right fit.
I'm rooting for the Browns to have success. Hope this works out.
"Browns"
"Browns pre-Dorsey"
"Browns w/Dorsey"
Important distinction, no? I think comes down to the GM choosing somebody he thinks he can work with regarding roster construction, that will keep the locker room moving forward, and somebody who has a demonstrated rapport with Mayfield. Also, somebody that the dirtbag owner feels he can invite to social gatherings that won't ding his reputation. Williams might have fit in like Jake and Elwood in the French restaurant.
Then you go to a place like Arizona and your first year as a head coach lines up with arguably the toughest schedule in the league, in one of the toughest divisions, with a rookie QB.
Talk about the short end of the stick.
Anthony Lynn of the Chargers, I don't believe, was ever more than a RB coach and he is doing very well.
I mean, how much *more* angry, since they're Browns fans...
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Toub in KC is another highly regarded ST coach.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Good god that raises a scary thought...
Quote:
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Good god that raises a scary thought...
There's a great chapter in his book about a specific play - the second of Eric Metcalf's two punt return TDs against the Steelers in 1993. He outlines how the Browns' punt return unit is comprised of players the Browns deemed important (either starters or significant role players). He describes what those players do on this play, and how they outmatch the Steelers special teamers - many of whom are UDFAs or otherwise essentially afterthoughts on the Pittsburgh roster. The punt return is linked below. It's a great play by everyone involved...it was a fake middle return designed to go to the right sideline after a couple of deceiving initial steps from Metcalf.
That's one thing that really came across about Belichick in the book...the incredible emphasis on special teams. The attention to detail is incredible.
Link - ( New Window )
Then you go to a place like Arizona and your first year as a head coach lines up with arguably the toughest schedule in the league, in one of the toughest divisions, with a rookie QB.
Talk about the short end of the stick.
You forgot about the worst offensive line in all of football as well.
Funny, Bill Walsh is quoted as saying the same thing back in the 80s.
I guess things don't really change..........
Quote:
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
Small sample size, but I remember Ganz being a dud. Lasted only a couple years before being fired?
Harbaugh obviously has done a great job in BALT.
I find this years coaching selections (and even the Oakland GM hire) very troubling. Virtually all inexperienced, virtually all under 45 white males.
Bill Walsh used to say that he was only competing against about 8 teams.
Quote:
and I don't recall who said it, but they really should consider more Special Teams coordinators for head coaching opportunities. When you think of it, a head coach really is a CEO. They need to be able to delegate to their assistants, and have oversight of the entire team. Most head coaches tend to focus on their specialty (as an offensive or defensive guy, with the current flavor of the month being to go find the next McVay). But a special teams coach is the only coach who actually interacts with the entire roster, offense and defense, and needs to work with starters on both sides. Over the years I can't think of too many who got that shot other than Harbaugh. Frank Ganz in Kansas City in the mid 1980s was another.
Mike Lombardi's been saying that exact thing. He may have written the column you're talking about. He talks a lot about special teams being the unit that builds the culture and character for the rest of the team.
That's aligned with something I've been wondering about: whether our deficit in player development can be traced to our special teams coaching.
I find this years coaching selections (and even the Oakland GM hire) very troubling. Virtually all inexperienced, virtually all under 45 white males.
At least they are all old, white guys lol ;)
Quote:
Had to be a huge factor.
Well, Baker likes to be in Kitchens
Cooking Brownies
Part of the reason the NFL tends to go with the "safe" choices is because it is very costly to experience failure. Kitchens could become a good HC. He could be a terrible HC. He could be a mediocre HC. For the Browns organization, if he isn't a good HC, they won't make strides forward.
It is kind of like the Josh Allen analysis last year. For him to stay a successful starter, he'll have to buck history that says the majority of QB's that have poor completion % in college will not make it in the NFL. And by majority, I think it was like 2 guys out of 37 had mediocre careers.
Kitchens is basically a lottery ticket. If you are the Browns and are looking to have sustained success under Mayfield, is that really the wisest choice?
Quote:
sure the Browns are getting any better at this.
"Browns"
"Browns pre-Dorsey"
"Browns w/Dorsey"
Important distinction, no? I think comes down to the GM choosing somebody he thinks he can work with regarding roster construction, that will keep the locker room moving forward, and somebody who has a demonstrated rapport with Mayfield. Also, somebody that the dirtbag owner feels he can invite to social gatherings that won't ding his reputation. Williams might have fit in like Jake and Elwood in the French restaurant.
Listening to Cleveland ESPN. It leaked out that search committee had Dorsey and 5 others with equal voice. Kitchens is an analytics guy, and appeals to the faction that is trying to run the Browns on statistics rather than football savvy, primarily Di Podesta.
Browns being Browns.
Link - ( New Window )
Browns seem like an incredibly political organization. Like, Redskins light.
As much young talent as they have, perhaps McCarthy wasn't being completely self-serving when he said he would only coach the Jets. As much talent as they have, it doesnt stick together all that long before salary cap and free agency hits... hope for their sake Mayfield overcomes a lot of the bullshit.
Andy Reid is the best example of a position coach who jumped to head coach and he's done quite well obviously.
Successful HC's who were position coaches are very rare.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2012/10/12/162791655/whats-all-this-malarkey-about-malarkey
It literally pertains to nothing.
It literally pertains to nothing.
Manny being Manny... BBI's resident pot head.
Williams has a lousy reputation and an attitude.
Williams has advocated intentionally injuring players several times in his career.