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The ARI Cardinals - Kyler Murray - Josh Rosen

Sy'56 : 1/9/2019 11:47 pm
I don't want to start a rumor mill, so you can take this for what it is worth.

New ARI Head Coach Kliff Kingsbury loves Kyler Murray.

ARI has the #1 pick

Kyler Murray declared for the draft right after Kingsbury was named Head Coach of AZ.

Not sure Josh Rosen is a personality fit for Kingsbury. That could be me looking too deep in to things, I will admit that.

Leads me to: Can Josh Rosen be had in a trade? I am giving #6 overall if that is the case. Right now. Maybe more.
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If the Giants didn't think Rosen was worth #2 last year  
widmerseyebrow : 1/10/2019 4:13 pm : link
They wouldn't think he's worth #6 this year with one less year on his rookie deal and a poor first year (beating included).
RE: If the Giants didn't think Rosen was worth #2 last year  
Sy'56 : 1/10/2019 4:49 pm : link
In comment 14257254 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
They wouldn't think he's worth #6 this year with one less year on his rookie deal and a poor first year (beating included).


How come?
F++k. Rosen  
5BowlsSoon : 1/10/2019 4:52 pm : link
He stinks, is injury prone, and fragile looking. No thank you
Sy - quick question  
buddyryansux10 : 1/10/2019 5:13 pm : link
You mentioned before there were very elite pass rushers available in this draft. Is Rosen a better value than any of them as it stands now? Thanks always for your insight!
Sy - quick question  
buddyryansux10 : 1/10/2019 5:15 pm : link
You mentioned before there were very elite pass rushers available in this draft. Is Rosen a better value than any of them as it stands now? Thanks always for your insight!
R. Eisen: Two Sources Say Rosen Won't  
clatterbuck : 1/10/2019 5:25 pm : link
be traded. Fwiw.
Fwiw, R. Eisen: Two Source Say Rosen  
clatterbuck : 1/10/2019 5:26 pm : link
won't be traded.
RE: R. Eisen: Two Sources Say Rosen Won't  
Strahan91 : 1/10/2019 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14257372 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
be traded. Fwiw.

Not at all surprising. Murray hasn't even declared for the draft yet but putting that aside for a second, the GM who traded up to draft Rosen is still their GM. It would be highly unlikely for him to admit that was a mistake a year in (essentially).
RE: Sy - quick question  
Sy'56 : 1/10/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14257351 buddyryansux10 said:
Quote:
You mentioned before there were very elite pass rushers available in this draft. Is Rosen a better value than any of them as it stands now? Thanks always for your insight!


I do think a QB is more important than a pass rusher, but even more than that, I think the Rosen grade will be higher than all of them besides Bosa.
Sy  
Go Terps : 1/10/2019 5:38 pm : link
How do you see Murray as an NFL prospect?
RE: Sy  
Sy'56 : 1/10/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14257389 Go Terps said:
Quote:
How do you see Murray as an NFL prospect?


I have work to do on him.

Right now, I see a middle round QB prospect, not a 1st rounder.
RE: RE: I can't  
Default : 1/10/2019 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14257251 Mr. Bungle said:
Quote:
In comment 14257024 Photoguy said:


Quote:


see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.


Really? Even if it means the QB saga is solved?


I dont believe that Giants brass believes there is a QB saga.
RE: If the Giants didn't think Rosen was worth #2 last year  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14257254 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
They wouldn't think he's worth #6 this year with one less year on his rookie deal and a poor first year (beating included).

That doesn't make sense. The Giants have said numerous times that Barkley was the best player in the draft and they felt he was a generational talent. That doesn't mean that they didn't like Darnold, Rosen, etc. it just means that they had the highest grade on Barkley. Now that Barkley has lived up to the hype and Eli is another year older their focus will be to find a QB. Having the chance to get Rosen could be too good to pass up.
Long thread above, can't read all of it at work.  
81_Great_Dane : 1/10/2019 6:59 pm : link
Rosen would be a gamble. Haskins would be a gamble -- probably an even bigger gamble, since Rosen has at least had a year in the league and there's pro tape on him.

Rosen probably isn't worth the #6 pick straight-up, and that's not a knock on him. If the Cards are trading with the Giants to get Murray, the Giants could ask for a sweetener, maybe the Giants #4 pick for the Cards' #3 pick. However the Giants aren't going to draft Murray anyway, so the Cards have the luxury of walking away and talking to the Jaguars if the Giants try to drive too hard a bargain.

Someone mentioned that if the Cards want to trade Rosen, they might want a player, not a pick. They might want OBJ. Re that: If the Cards are coming to trade for OBJ, they need to offer Rosen plus a lot more. Maybe their #2 and #3 picks, or this year's #2 and next year's #1. OBJ in exchange for Rosen, the #33 pick and the #65 pick, or the #33 and the Cards' first-rounder for 2020, isn't crazy. I still wouldn't do it, but it isn't crazy.
RE: RE: RE: I can't  
Dutch77 : 1/10/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14257391 Default said:
Quote:
In comment 14257251 Mr. Bungle said:


Quote:


In comment 14257024 Photoguy said:


Quote:


see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.


Really? Even if it means the QB saga is solved?



I dont believe that Giants brass believes there is a QB saga.

If TRUE, that's part of the problem.
RE: If the Giants didn't think Rosen was worth #2 last year  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/10/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14257254 widmerseyebrow said:
[quote] They wouldn't think he's worth #6 this year with one less year on his rookie deal and a poor first year (beating included). [/quotte]

That's one possibility. Another is that DG meant what he said about last year's available QBs at 2. That taking Barkley wasn't a referendum on the QBs (Darnold, Rosen, Allen). It was a statement about Barkley.

Rosen wanted to go to the Giants, at least not to the Browns.
RE: Long thread above, can't read all of it at work.  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 7:15 pm : link
In comment 14257496 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
Rosen would be a gamble. Haskins would be a gamble -- probably an even bigger gamble, since Rosen has at least had a year in the league and there's pro tape on him.

Rosen probably isn't worth the #6 pick straight-up, and that's not a knock on him. If the Cards are trading with the Giants to get Murray, the Giants could ask for a sweetener, maybe the Giants #4 pick for the Cards' #3 pick. However the Giants aren't going to draft Murray anyway, so the Cards have the luxury of walking away and talking to the Jaguars if the Giants try to drive too hard a bargain.

Someone mentioned that if the Cards want to trade Rosen, they might want a player, not a pick. They might want OBJ. Re that: If the Cards are coming to trade for OBJ, they need to offer Rosen plus a lot more. Maybe their #2 and #3 picks, or this year's #2 and next year's #1. OBJ in exchange for Rosen, the #33 pick and the #65 pick, or the #33 and the Cards' first-rounder for 2020, isn't crazy. I still wouldn't do it, but it isn't crazy.

If the Cards were offering up their 2020 1st round pick I would jump at the chance because there is a very good chance that that is going to be another top 5 pick. I doubt they would give that up with Rosen for Beckham though. I don't want to trade Beckham but if the Cards came offering that package I would jump on it.

I think a fair offer is Rosen and the Cardinals 2nd and 3rd round picks for the #6 pick and the Giants 2nd round pick. The Giants would get their QB, move up to the top spot in round 2 plus get another 3rd.
RE: I can't  
Dutch77 : 1/10/2019 7:18 pm : link
In comment 14257024 Photoguy said:
Quote:
see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.

With 11 draft picks, why are some so adament about drafting the best defensive player with the # 6 pick(in a defensive rich draft) but last year it was all about drafting a QB or Offensive Lineman?
RE: RE: I can't  
Dan in the Springs : 1/10/2019 7:27 pm : link
In comment 14257518 Dutch77 said:
Quote:
In comment 14257024 Photoguy said:


Quote:


see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.


With 11 draft picks, why are some so adament about drafting the best defensive player with the # 6 pick(in a defensive rich draft) but last year it was all about drafting a QB or Offensive Lineman?


Because there was a lot of love for the QB prospects in last year's draft, not so much in this year's. Same with the OL. Add in that finding an impact defender has to be high on the list of Giants needs this year, and you have what seems to be a clear solution to an admitted problem.

I'm really warming up to Haskins, and won't complain if he's drafted. I generally just put my trust in the pros anyway, since I know enough to know my limitations as a "scout" LOL.
Boyelhart (FWIW) gave Haskins a huge rating today  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 1/10/2019 7:32 pm : link
higher than Joey Bosa.

"Dwayne has extraordinary talent to become a franchise quarterback for the team that selects him. He has a quick release that teams are going to love and makes all the throws with the accuracy and the velocity that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and make you say…Oh brother! He is a pure pocket passer who has the mental talent and football IQ to adjust his style of play to any style of offense system and that is a unique talent that only a franchise potential player has the ability to do."

I know Boyelhart has his fans and detractors here. Just passing this on.
Haskins Review - ( New Window )
RE: Josh Rosen and Saquon Barkley  
FStubbs : 1/10/2019 7:34 pm : link
In comment 14256924 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
and OBJ and Evan Engram and FA/Draft to fix the O-line is the stuff that this Giants fan's dreams are made of. I think it would be a mistake for Cards essentially to swap out Rosen for Murray who seems to be a smaller version of RGIII. But if this is a real possibility, I'd urge Giants to explore it seriously.


I think it was a mistake to swap out Steve Wilks after one year for Kliff Kingsbury and be looking at McAdoofus to help run the offense. Who knows what Arizona is thinking.
RE: From a fan's perspective...  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2019 7:37 pm : link
In comment 14256596 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this is how I view it:



Quote:


I wonder if the Giants view Rosen as worth the #6 pick
Heisenberg : 10:23 am : link : reply
What a really interesting scenario.



Just a really interesting scenario. It provides an avenue to getting the young, cost controlled QB that teams crave. But the second part of that is if he's worth it.

That's above all our pay grades, but it sure does make for something interesting to discuss.


Agree with it all except the "above pay grades" thing as this FO and previous have made enough mistakes in both drafts, free agency and contracts to put their ultimate judgment calls in question...at least somewhat.

I liked Rosen last year and what he showed as a rookie at times, and would think this is a different/creative move to potentially fix a big problem staring this franchise in the face...
RE: Boyelhart (FWIW) gave Haskins a huge rating today  
bw in dc : 1/10/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14257537 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
higher than Joey Bosa.

"Dwayne has extraordinary talent to become a franchise quarterback for the team that selects him. He has a quick release that teams are going to love and makes all the throws with the accuracy and the velocity that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and make you say…Oh brother! He is a pure pocket passer who has the mental talent and football IQ to adjust his style of play to any style of offense system and that is a unique talent that only a franchise potential player has the ability to do."

I know Boyelhart has his fans and detractors here. Just passing this on. Haskins Review - ( New Window )


They lost me at quick release.
Regardless of how..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/10/2019 7:49 pm : link
proficient you think the FO is, it is most definitely above our pay grades to evaluate Rosen.

You think I really trust some of the morons here to tell me how Rosen is likely to perform?
I want a mobile QB, so i'm intrigued by Murray  
SHO'NUFF : 1/10/2019 7:50 pm : link
but i'm also concerned about his frame (not so much his height) and commitment to football.

can Haskins move as well as Big Ben, if not better?

He was already graded. His market was established  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2019 7:55 pm : link
and there is a bunch of NFL games on tape now.

Some of that fly has been unzipped at this point on this guy.

And yes there are moronic opinions on BBI, but still enough of them to cover the range of being correct as well...
RE: Regardless of how..  
bw in dc : 1/10/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14257559 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
proficient you think the FO is, it is most definitely above our pay grades to evaluate Rosen.

You think I really trust some of the morons here to tell me how Rosen is likely to perform?


Fat-Mara - you can always count on me...
RE: Regardless of how..  
Strahan91 : 1/10/2019 7:59 pm : link
In comment 14257559 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
proficient you think the FO is, it is most definitely above our pay grades to evaluate Rosen.

You think I really trust some of the morons here to tell me how Rosen is likely to perform?

You do realize our very own gm posts here under his burner account “saqbar”, don’t you?
Larry Tisch on Rosen  
cosmicj : 1/10/2019 8:13 pm : link
“Giants co-owner Steve Tisch was part of the Giants’ delegation that had dinner with quarterback Josh Rosen in Los Angeles last week. What was Tisch’s scouting report on the player who could be available for the Giants with the No. 2 pick in April’s draft?

“His table manners: Unbelievable,” Tisch said. “He was brought up very well. He’s a very charismatic young man.”

Giants material? It’s too soon to tell that. Tisch, like most Giants officials, is adamant that the team does not yet know who it will target in the first round.”

Sounds like Tisch was partly joking but then he throws in the word “charismatic.”
Rock in Newsday - ( New Window )
Gettleman on Rosen, Apr 20 2018 press conference  
cosmicj : 1/10/2019 8:17 pm : link
“Gettleman was asked specifically about Rosen’s love for the game. It has been something that has been questioned. After meeting with Rosen at the combine and privately during a visit, it wasn’t a concern. Gettleman had no doubts Rosen wants to play football.“
I Find it Funny That BBI Thinks...  
Jim in Tampa : 1/10/2019 9:15 pm : link
The Cards would actually trade Rosen after 1 year. And if they did that they'd have to add either a pick or another player to sweeten the deal in order to get the Giants' pick at 6.

And all this talk about Rosen being picked at 10 and therefore not worth the 6th overall the following year is just dumb. Last year's draft had more blue chip talent at the top. Rosen would be the top QB in this draft and go earlier than the 6th spot if he were coming out this year. That makes him MORE valuable than the #6 overall, not less.

But again, it's doubtful that the Cards would trade him anyway.
RE: I Find it Funny That BBI Thinks...  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14257678 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
The Cards would actually trade Rosen after 1 year. And if they did that they'd have to add either a pick or another player to sweeten the deal in order to get the Giants' pick at 6.

And all this talk about Rosen being picked at 10 and therefore not worth the 6th overall the following year is just dumb. Last year's draft had more blue chip talent at the top. Rosen would be the top QB in this draft and go earlier than the 6th spot if he were coming out this year. That makes him MORE valuable than the #6 overall, not less.

But again, it's doubtful that the Cards would trade him anyway.

It is very unlikely that the Cardinals would trade Rosen this offseason but crazier things have happened. If Kingsbury is enamored with Murray he could convince the FO to take Murray and trade Rosen for assets to improve the roster around Murray.
I remember how shocked I was  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 9:29 pm : link
when Josh McDaniels traded away Jay Cutler shortly after he was hired.
What an asinine thread. Rosen isn’t even worth a 2nd round pick  
NYGmen58 : 1/10/2019 9:52 pm : link
At this point. To my credit, I knew he was not an nfl qb, and would be an awful fit in NY.

Sy, I respect you man, but Rosen is a joke. Don’t double down on stupid.
Rosen!!!  
TD : 1/10/2019 10:43 pm : link
He was my pick at #2 last year and I would certainly take him at 6 this year.

If this somehow comes true, it would be the ideal scenario. Basically walking out of last year’s draft with Barkley AND Rosen.

Make it happen, Gettleman!
RE: Rosen!!!  
Britt in VA : 1/10/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14257841 TD said:
Quote:
He was my pick at #2 last year and I would certainly take him at 6 this year.

If this somehow comes true, it would be the ideal scenario. Basically walking out of last year’s draft with Barkley AND Rosen.

Make it happen, Gettleman!


It's actually a dream scenario. Probably a pipe dream, but damn, if it could actually happen....
RE: What an asinine thread. Rosen isn’t even worth a 2nd round pick  
Sy'56 : 1/10/2019 10:54 pm : link
In comment 14257751 NYGmen58 said:
Quote:
At this point. To my credit, I knew he was not an nfl qb, and would be an awful fit in NY.

Sy, I respect you man, but Rosen is a joke. Don’t double down on stupid.


Any reasoning behind this?

-The guy that is labeled "stupid"
Sy'56 - before you go off you gotta realize that very often  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/11/2019 12:50 am : link
here opinions about college players especially is not based on actually watching players play... A guy reads something - a lot of garbage was spread around Rosen's demeanor, desire (or lack of it), the fact he has other interests, UCLA's record during his tenure there...

Only the SoCal guys here have probably seen a lot of Rosen actually play, and have seen the # of times Rosen has thread the needle to put balls on his WRs or TE's hands only to have pass after pass dropped. His and Darnold's last year, was USC v. UCLA even aired on the east Coast? At what hour?
This will never happen  
montanagiant : 1/11/2019 1:05 am : link
On face value, it's ridiculous to even consider
RE: I would give serious consideration  
Optimus-NY : 1/11/2019 3:05 am : link
In comment 14256517 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
to trading that #6 for Rosen. If you can go back in time 1 year and say the Giants would end up Saquon and Rosen, and it would cost the #6 overall the next year, I think everyone would jump on that.


Agreed. I'd do it.
RE: It doesn't have to be a pick that we trade  
Optimus-NY : 1/11/2019 4:08 am : link
In comment 14256897 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It could be a player. I won't say his name because all the same posters will descend on this thread and scream. It's like saying Beetlejuice three times.


LMAO! You've got me rolling. So true.
RE: I want a mobile QB, so i'm intrigued by Murray  
Gruber : 1/11/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14257563 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
but i'm also concerned about his frame (not so much his height) and commitment to football.

can Haskins move as well as Big Ben, if not better?


They're not even sure Murrary is 5ft 9in. And he has a slender frame. We know the consensus here about quarterbacks who love to rush: they're an accident waiting to happen. Well, Murray is smaller than any of the NFL quarterbacks discussed on here in the past twelve months.
That plus the possibility of an opt out to baseball means there's no way he can be considered a round one draft prospect.
We'll know how tall he really is when he's measured at the combine.  
Ira : 1/11/2019 9:36 am : link
I've read 5'9, 5'10, 5'11 and now he's not even 5'9. For me, waiting is better than speculating. I love the videos I've seen of him and I'm impressed by his stats, but size does matter. As far as his frame goes, he doesn't look that slender to me - probably stronger than OBJ. But we'll get a better idea at the combine.

Gettleman is conservative, but he's also willing to think outside of the box, so there's an chance, though not a big one, that Murray may be wearing blue next season.
Rosen in cold weather?  
CT Charlie : 1/11/2019 11:06 am : link
How much tape is there on Rosen in Meadlowlands-type conditions?
RE: We'll know how tall he really is when he's measured at the combine.  
GFAN52 : 1/11/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14258053 Ira said:
Quote:
I've read 5'9, 5'10, 5'11 and now he's not even 5'9. For me, waiting is better than speculating. I love the videos I've seen of him and I'm impressed by his stats, but size does matter. As far as his frame goes, he doesn't look that slender to me - probably stronger than OBJ. But we'll get a better idea at the combine.

Gettleman is conservative, but he's also willing to think outside of the box, so there's an chance, though not a big one, that Murray may be wearing blue next season.


He's not 5'11 that's for sure. I would bet under 5'9" when he's officially measured. It's silly to think he would be drafted #1 by the Cardinals.
RE: We'll know how tall he really is when he's measured at the combine.  
bw in dc : 1/11/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14258053 Ira said:
Quote:
I've read 5'9, 5'10, 5'11 and now he's not even 5'9. For me, waiting is better than speculating. I love the videos I've seen of him and I'm impressed by his stats, but size does matter. As far as his frame goes, he doesn't look that slender to me - probably stronger than OBJ. But we'll get a better idea at the combine.



The OU football "official roster" has him at 5'10", 195, which likely included measurement in his cleats, helmet, and pads.

After the A's drafted Murray in the MLB draft this year, there is a picture of Murray standing next to A's GM Billy Beane. Beane is like 6'3". Murray looks like a jockey getting ready to ride in the Preakness.

I will be shocked if he breaks 5'9".
RE: Rosen in cold weather?  
Jay on the Island : 1/11/2019 12:59 pm : link
In comment 14258205 CT Charlie said:
Quote:
How much tape is there on Rosen in Meadlowlands-type conditions?

About the same as Darnold had. I wouldn’t worry about the weather unless arm strength was in question but that is definitely not the case with Rosen.
Murray  
stretch234 : 1/11/2019 1:43 pm : link
Colleges have history of adding height and weight to players

When OU lists you at 5-10 and 195 you are not 5-10 and 195

If the Cardinals were stupid enough to offer Rosen for the 6th pick you absolutely do it. Your QB search is done

You then have Rosen & Barkley in back to back years - that is stealing
RE: RE: What an asinine thread. Rosen isn’t even worth a 2nd round pick  
Thegratefulhead : 1/11/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14257857 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14257751 NYGmen58 said:


Quote:


At this point. To my credit, I knew he was not an nfl qb, and would be an awful fit in NY.

Sy, I respect you man, but Rosen is a joke. Don’t double down on stupid.



Any reasoning behind this?

-The guy that is labeled "stupid"
Sy, I suspect this is because of the picture of Rosen in hat. This has the tone of a certain type of social media poster. Thank you for all your contributions here.
RE: Despite the QB prototype changing...  
WarriorHal : 1/11/2019 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14256298 bw in dc said:
Quote:
using the first pick for a 5’9”, 170 lb QB would be incredulous.

And I really like Kyler Murray.




Some folks are saying he's really only 5'7"
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