I don't want to start a rumor mill, so you can take this for what it is worth.
New ARI Head Coach Kliff Kingsbury loves Kyler Murray.
ARI has the #1 pick
Kyler Murray declared for the draft right after Kingsbury was named Head Coach of AZ.
Not sure Josh Rosen is a personality fit for Kingsbury. That could be me looking too deep in to things, I will admit that.
Leads me to: Can Josh Rosen be had in a trade? I am giving #6 overall if that is the case. Right now. Maybe more.
How come?
Not at all surprising. Murray hasn't even declared for the draft yet but putting that aside for a second, the GM who traded up to draft Rosen is still their GM. It would be highly unlikely for him to admit that was a mistake a year in (essentially).
I do think a QB is more important than a pass rusher, but even more than that, I think the Rosen grade will be higher than all of them besides Bosa.
I have work to do on him.
Right now, I see a middle round QB prospect, not a 1st rounder.
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see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.
Really? Even if it means the QB saga is solved?
I dont believe that Giants brass believes there is a QB saga.
That doesn't make sense. The Giants have said numerous times that Barkley was the best player in the draft and they felt he was a generational talent. That doesn't mean that they didn't like Darnold, Rosen, etc. it just means that they had the highest grade on Barkley. Now that Barkley has lived up to the hype and Eli is another year older their focus will be to find a QB. Having the chance to get Rosen could be too good to pass up.
Rosen probably isn't worth the #6 pick straight-up, and that's not a knock on him. If the Cards are trading with the Giants to get Murray, the Giants could ask for a sweetener, maybe the Giants #4 pick for the Cards' #3 pick. However the Giants aren't going to draft Murray anyway, so the Cards have the luxury of walking away and talking to the Jaguars if the Giants try to drive too hard a bargain.
Someone mentioned that if the Cards want to trade Rosen, they might want a player, not a pick. They might want OBJ. Re that: If the Cards are coming to trade for OBJ, they need to offer Rosen plus a lot more. Maybe their #2 and #3 picks, or this year's #2 and next year's #1. OBJ in exchange for Rosen, the #33 pick and the #65 pick, or the #33 and the Cards' first-rounder for 2020, isn't crazy. I still wouldn't do it, but it isn't crazy.
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In comment 14257024 Photoguy said:
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see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.
Really? Even if it means the QB saga is solved?
I dont believe that Giants brass believes there is a QB saga.
If TRUE, that's part of the problem.
[quote] They wouldn't think he's worth #6 this year with one less year on his rookie deal and a poor first year (beating included). [/quotte]
That's one possibility. Another is that DG meant what he said about last year's available QBs at 2. That taking Barkley wasn't a referendum on the QBs (Darnold, Rosen, Allen). It was a statement about Barkley.
Rosen wanted to go to the Giants, at least not to the Browns.
Rosen probably isn't worth the #6 pick straight-up, and that's not a knock on him. If the Cards are trading with the Giants to get Murray, the Giants could ask for a sweetener, maybe the Giants #4 pick for the Cards' #3 pick. However the Giants aren't going to draft Murray anyway, so the Cards have the luxury of walking away and talking to the Jaguars if the Giants try to drive too hard a bargain.
Someone mentioned that if the Cards want to trade Rosen, they might want a player, not a pick. They might want OBJ. Re that: If the Cards are coming to trade for OBJ, they need to offer Rosen plus a lot more. Maybe their #2 and #3 picks, or this year's #2 and next year's #1. OBJ in exchange for Rosen, the #33 pick and the #65 pick, or the #33 and the Cards' first-rounder for 2020, isn't crazy. I still wouldn't do it, but it isn't crazy.
If the Cards were offering up their 2020 1st round pick I would jump at the chance because there is a very good chance that that is going to be another top 5 pick. I doubt they would give that up with Rosen for Beckham though. I don't want to trade Beckham but if the Cards came offering that package I would jump on it.
I think a fair offer is Rosen and the Cardinals 2nd and 3rd round picks for the #6 pick and the Giants 2nd round pick. The Giants would get their QB, move up to the top spot in round 2 plus get another 3rd.
With 11 draft picks, why are some so adament about drafting the best defensive player with the # 6 pick(in a defensive rich draft) but last year it was all about drafting a QB or Offensive Lineman?
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see Gettleman trading #6 with so many players that would make an immediate impact on defense.
With 11 draft picks, why are some so adament about drafting the best defensive player with the # 6 pick(in a defensive rich draft) but last year it was all about drafting a QB or Offensive Lineman?
Because there was a lot of love for the QB prospects in last year's draft, not so much in this year's. Same with the OL. Add in that finding an impact defender has to be high on the list of Giants needs this year, and you have what seems to be a clear solution to an admitted problem.
I'm really warming up to Haskins, and won't complain if he's drafted. I generally just put my trust in the pros anyway, since I know enough to know my limitations as a "scout" LOL.
"Dwayne has extraordinary talent to become a franchise quarterback for the team that selects him. He has a quick release that teams are going to love and makes all the throws with the accuracy and the velocity that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and make you say…Oh brother! He is a pure pocket passer who has the mental talent and football IQ to adjust his style of play to any style of offense system and that is a unique talent that only a franchise potential player has the ability to do."
I know Boyelhart has his fans and detractors here. Just passing this on.
Haskins Review - ( New Window )
I think it was a mistake to swap out Steve Wilks after one year for Kliff Kingsbury and be looking at McAdoofus to help run the offense. Who knows what Arizona is thinking.
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I wonder if the Giants view Rosen as worth the #6 pick
Heisenberg : 10:23 am : link : reply
What a really interesting scenario.
Just a really interesting scenario. It provides an avenue to getting the young, cost controlled QB that teams crave. But the second part of that is if he's worth it.
That's above all our pay grades, but it sure does make for something interesting to discuss.
Agree with it all except the "above pay grades" thing as this FO and previous have made enough mistakes in both drafts, free agency and contracts to put their ultimate judgment calls in question...at least somewhat.
I liked Rosen last year and what he showed as a rookie at times, and would think this is a different/creative move to potentially fix a big problem staring this franchise in the face...
"Dwayne has extraordinary talent to become a franchise quarterback for the team that selects him. He has a quick release that teams are going to love and makes all the throws with the accuracy and the velocity that makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and make you say…Oh brother! He is a pure pocket passer who has the mental talent and football IQ to adjust his style of play to any style of offense system and that is a unique talent that only a franchise potential player has the ability to do."
I know Boyelhart has his fans and detractors here. Just passing this on. Haskins Review - ( New Window )
They lost me at quick release.
You think I really trust some of the morons here to tell me how Rosen is likely to perform?
can Haskins move as well as Big Ben, if not better?
Some of that fly has been unzipped at this point on this guy.
And yes there are moronic opinions on BBI, but still enough of them to cover the range of being correct as well...
You think I really trust some of the morons here to tell me how Rosen is likely to perform?
Fat-Mara - you can always count on me...
You think I really trust some of the morons here to tell me how Rosen is likely to perform?
You do realize our very own gm posts here under his burner account “saqbar”, don’t you?
“His table manners: Unbelievable,” Tisch said. “He was brought up very well. He’s a very charismatic young man.”
Giants material? It’s too soon to tell that. Tisch, like most Giants officials, is adamant that the team does not yet know who it will target in the first round.”
Sounds like Tisch was partly joking but then he throws in the word “charismatic.”
Rock in Newsday - ( New Window )
And all this talk about Rosen being picked at 10 and therefore not worth the 6th overall the following year is just dumb. Last year's draft had more blue chip talent at the top. Rosen would be the top QB in this draft and go earlier than the 6th spot if he were coming out this year. That makes him MORE valuable than the #6 overall, not less.
But again, it's doubtful that the Cards would trade him anyway.
And all this talk about Rosen being picked at 10 and therefore not worth the 6th overall the following year is just dumb. Last year's draft had more blue chip talent at the top. Rosen would be the top QB in this draft and go earlier than the 6th spot if he were coming out this year. That makes him MORE valuable than the #6 overall, not less.
But again, it's doubtful that the Cards would trade him anyway.
It is very unlikely that the Cardinals would trade Rosen this offseason but crazier things have happened. If Kingsbury is enamored with Murray he could convince the FO to take Murray and trade Rosen for assets to improve the roster around Murray.
Sy, I respect you man, but Rosen is a joke. Don’t double down on stupid.
If this somehow comes true, it would be the ideal scenario. Basically walking out of last year’s draft with Barkley AND Rosen.
Make it happen, Gettleman!
If this somehow comes true, it would be the ideal scenario. Basically walking out of last year’s draft with Barkley AND Rosen.
Make it happen, Gettleman!
It's actually a dream scenario. Probably a pipe dream, but damn, if it could actually happen....
Sy, I respect you man, but Rosen is a joke. Don’t double down on stupid.
Any reasoning behind this?
-The guy that is labeled "stupid"
Only the SoCal guys here have probably seen a lot of Rosen actually play, and have seen the # of times Rosen has thread the needle to put balls on his WRs or TE's hands only to have pass after pass dropped. His and Darnold's last year, was USC v. UCLA even aired on the east Coast? At what hour?
Agreed. I'd do it.
LMAO! You've got me rolling. So true.
can Haskins move as well as Big Ben, if not better?
They're not even sure Murrary is 5ft 9in. And he has a slender frame. We know the consensus here about quarterbacks who love to rush: they're an accident waiting to happen. Well, Murray is smaller than any of the NFL quarterbacks discussed on here in the past twelve months.
That plus the possibility of an opt out to baseball means there's no way he can be considered a round one draft prospect.
Gettleman is conservative, but he's also willing to think outside of the box, so there's an chance, though not a big one, that Murray may be wearing blue next season.
Gettleman is conservative, but he's also willing to think outside of the box, so there's an chance, though not a big one, that Murray may be wearing blue next season.
He's not 5'11 that's for sure. I would bet under 5'9" when he's officially measured. It's silly to think he would be drafted #1 by the Cardinals.
The OU football "official roster" has him at 5'10", 195, which likely included measurement in his cleats, helmet, and pads.
After the A's drafted Murray in the MLB draft this year, there is a picture of Murray standing next to A's GM Billy Beane. Beane is like 6'3". Murray looks like a jockey getting ready to ride in the Preakness.
I will be shocked if he breaks 5'9".
About the same as Darnold had. I wouldn’t worry about the weather unless arm strength was in question but that is definitely not the case with Rosen.
When OU lists you at 5-10 and 195 you are not 5-10 and 195
If the Cardinals were stupid enough to offer Rosen for the 6th pick you absolutely do it. Your QB search is done
You then have Rosen & Barkley in back to back years - that is stealing
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At this point. To my credit, I knew he was not an nfl qb, and would be an awful fit in NY.
Sy, I respect you man, but Rosen is a joke. Don’t double down on stupid.
Any reasoning behind this?
-The guy that is labeled "stupid"
And I really like Kyler Murray.