I don't want to start a rumor mill, so you can take this for what it is worth.
New ARI Head Coach Kliff Kingsbury loves Kyler Murray.
ARI has the #1 pick
Kyler Murray declared for the draft right after Kingsbury was named Head Coach of AZ.
Not sure Josh Rosen is a personality fit for Kingsbury. That could be me looking too deep in to things, I will admit that.
Leads me to: Can Josh Rosen be had in a trade? I am giving #6 overall if that is the case. Right now. Maybe more.
Its like buying a car, you drive it off the lot and it's value goes down
Josh Rosen went #10 last year and the perception is that he had a rough year. That would be furthered by an interest in trading Rosen by Arizona as it will be perceived as "getting out" of Rosen
His value, despite draft grades, will be less than the #10 pick and not the 6 pick.
Just on public perception, an organization and a GM wont do that.
I dont think its as low as a 2nd rounder the Giants could offer but I cant imagine the Giants trading this years 6 pick for a guy who fell to 10 lasy year over attitude concerns and came in and didnt play well and his team is trading him and drafting a new QB.
Instead of Rosen marinating on the bench "learning" from Eli we are able to dissect his value behind the worst OL in the NFL past 10 years is very valuable
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I know these would be different circumstance but the fact remains...
We didn’t pass on Rosen. We passed on every qb for a generational freak talent. We would have passed on mayfield as well and I truly believe that DG wanted Barkley all along. I would 100 percent trade the six overall for Rosen right now and I beleive to get him would cost more than that
Um ok. Neverthless we passed...
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I know these would be different circumstance but the fact remains...
THey passed on him for what the considered a better player. Who knows if he was their highest rated QB or not. They passed on Chubb and Nelson, too. You don't think they would take either if they had the chance?
I agree we don't know, except we do know we could have picked Rosen (and theoretically we could have made deals to go get him) but we passed.
Its like buying a car, you drive it off the lot and it's value goes down
Josh Rosen went #10 last year and the perception is that he had a rough year. That would be furthered by an interest in trading Rosen by Arizona as it will be perceived as "getting out" of Rosen
His value, despite draft grades, will be less than the #10 pick and not the 6 pick.
Just on public perception, an organization and a GM wont do that.
I dont think its as low as a 2nd rounder the Giants could offer but I cant imagine the Giants trading this years 6 pick for a guy who fell to 10 lasy year over attitude concerns and came in and didnt play well and his team is trading him and drafting a new QB.
An NFL QB is not a car, and they don't depreciate over the rookie season unless they are Jemarcus Russell.
The team wants to run a different offense and the existing QB cannot run it. Does not mean he did anything wrong and trading him gets something back. So why would his value drop when he survived a difficult year? He proved he can survive a lousy offensive line and team. Those would be pluses.
Public perception? GTFO. If teams operated on public perception they would fold in a minute. Rosen didn't kill, rape, assault or harm anybody. He is a QB that may not fit the next HC philosophy, period. Trade him for picks.
If Rosen was in this draft, he would easily be the highest rated QB. He has a year's worth of NFL tape. His draft position last year is irrelevant to this year. The only things that matter are if he can run an NFL offense that Shurmur wants to run, is his arm capable of making the throws necessary and did the FO see improvement throughout the year that would warrant Rosen becoming the next franchise QB of the New York Giants.
How can anyone possibly know that pre-combine? Bowl games just ended, the #1 pick last year who took many by surprise due to his size will likely win ROY, and Rosen will still have his attitude issues.
I think he might best the first QB taken in 2019 but its far from a certainty.
The Cardinals are a dumpster fire though. I don’t know how you can blame Rosen after playing behind that Oline that was just brutal.
The Cardinals are a dumpster fire though. I don’t know how you can blame Rosen after playing behind that Oline that was just brutal.
Where did Schefter confirm it?
If the Cardinals called asking for the 6th pick for Rosen you say yes.
We have no choice but to keep improving the OL, it shouldn't stop being a priority depending on the type of QB we have.
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The rumor.
The Cardinals are a dumpster fire though. I don’t know how you can blame Rosen after playing behind that Oline that was just brutal.
Where did Schefter confirm it?
If the Cardinals called asking for the 6th pick for Rosen you say yes.
NFL logoNFL Schefter Floats Josh Rosen Trade Scenario 👀 - ( New Window )
Or less
3-4/4-3, it doesn't matter. We just need to field a competent defense. We can't do that now. Heck, if we could sign sumo wrestlers from BBI lore, we should do that. It would be more respectable than the trash that takes the field now.
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How has that worked out the last 6 years?
We have no choice but to keep improving the OL, it shouldn't stop being a priority depending on the type of QB we have.
Fully agree, UConn.
This is my thought as well. And, I still have the same longevity concerns about him that I had last year. With a season under his belt, nfl gms (who talk) can do more than just base the pick on innate talent. And, DG has repeatedly emphasized team culture. I'm guessing for that reason (and longevity means they might be back at the Tuo well next year...2 #1 picks on QB's) the pole DG would need to touch Rosen would be very long indeed.
3-4/4-3, it doesn't matter. We just need to field a competent defense. We can't do that now. Heck, if we could sign sumo wrestlers from BBI lore, we should do that. It would be more respectable than the trash that takes the field now.
I'm confused why you are discussing this here under the Rosen thread.
Agree, that we need to fix the defense, but priority #1 should be to complete the rebuild of the offensive line.
It came from various scouting reports that leaked, it wasn't invented.
You're free to ignore these bullet points, if it offends you.
Let someone take Haskins before us.
Bosa
Q. Williams
Josh Allen
Jonah Williams/Clein Ferrell/Devin White
Giants become very happy.
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from the nostalgia of their boyhood memories. But we aren't any closer to running a 3-4 as we are to a 4-3. With Keim looking for a veteran coach to run a 3-4, trading Bettcher along with a package of picks (not #6) would give a lot of credence to the fan base where Bettcher is respected.
3-4/4-3, it doesn't matter. We just need to field a competent defense. We can't do that now. Heck, if we could sign sumo wrestlers from BBI lore, we should do that. It would be more respectable than the trash that takes the field now.
I'm confused why you are discussing this here under the Rosen thread.
Agree, that we need to fix the defense, but priority #1 should be to complete the rebuild of the offensive line.
I suggested it above when others are speculating draft picks to trade. The team has other assets besides draft collateral to trade. I might be in the minority and plenty have offered the excuse that Bettcher didn't have the talent to work with, but I don't see any reason why we have to married to that guy. His defense was awful (talent to a degree), but so was the playcalling. He was known for blitzing yet, time and again teams converted 3rd downs for firsts and marched down the field like a hot knife through butter.
I would trade the 6th for Rosen and Arizona's second pick.
Or the Giants second this year and a third next year.
While Rosen has potential he was statistically the worst QB in the NFL last year.
He demonstrated good and bad traits. He did, however, show a really good arm and toughness.
That is a place to start.
Suit yourself. A lot of it is nonsense, and a lot of is perfectly true and valid. I share what I hear, in my case, it's not regurgitated shit off ESPN or a local rag.
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In comment 14256459 Diver_Down said:
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from the nostalgia of their boyhood memories. But we aren't any closer to running a 3-4 as we are to a 4-3. With Keim looking for a veteran coach to run a 3-4, trading Bettcher along with a package of picks (not #6) would give a lot of credence to the fan base where Bettcher is respected.
3-4/4-3, it doesn't matter. We just need to field a competent defense. We can't do that now. Heck, if we could sign sumo wrestlers from BBI lore, we should do that. It would be more respectable than the trash that takes the field now.
I'm confused why you are discussing this here under the Rosen thread.
Agree, that we need to fix the defense, but priority #1 should be to complete the rebuild of the offensive line.
I suggested it above when others are speculating draft picks to trade. The team has other assets besides draft collateral to trade. I might be in the minority and plenty have offered the excuse that Bettcher didn't have the talent to work with, but I don't see any reason why we have to married to that guy. His defense was awful (talent to a degree), but so was the playcalling. He was known for blitzing yet, time and again teams converted 3rd downs for firsts and marched down the field like a hot knife through butter.
Our defense lacked a ton of talent everywhere besides the DTs. Our LBs and secondary are brutal and we had Vernon as the only pass rusher in the team and on top of that we made a switch to a 3-4.
I give B a pass. In all honesty I know the d wasn’t very good, but I wasn’t nearly as frustrated as I have been in the past. We gave up leads in the 4th quarter, that’s when teams with good depth win ball games and teams with non loose them.
Jared Goff looked less than average his rookie year.
It is funny that sometime during the season, he threw out this wacky scenario where Rosen would be traded to the Giants. He was obviously joking, but it is amusing that this rumor is actually out there now.
I understand the awe of Murray. But I don't see it, not yet. I havent charted things with him yet though, so I still have work to do. I was under assumption all year he would play baseball, so I didn't scout. But I don't see him being much better overall than McSorley to be honest.
Agreed, Rosen in this draft would be the consensus top pick. He happened to be in a very talented 2018 qb class. Yes, I would trade the number 6 overall pick for him in a minute. Alternative is likely to wait until 2020 and have to give up multiple assets to get a qb.
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If Rosen was in this draft he would be the consensus #1 pick. What inpressed me about Rosen last year was that he stayed healthy despite playing behind an awful offensive line.
Agreed, Rosen in this draft would be the consensus top pick. He happened to be in a very talented 2018 qb class. Yes, I would trade the number 6 overall pick for him in a minute. Alternative is likely to wait until 2020 and have to give up multiple assets to get a qb.
Worried that we do that regardless. And then we could have had a D- or O-line.