why people on this Board feel personally hurt when a player under-performs his contract. It tends to make them resent the player and unable to evaluate his worth to the team.
It’s because Giants fans suck. They want play to play for minimum wage and if they don’t and don’t perform to what they feel is equal to their pay, they become enemy number 1.
You’re talking about a fan base that acts like Jonathon Stewart is the devil and the Giants will never recover from that “crippling” contract.
that was voted into the Pro Bowl without even having played a game the entire season. People voted for him because they knew his name. Wish I could remember who it was...
And the only semblance of an edge rush we have on the roster
He's also overpaid and not worth the contract he received. But the way some people take it so personally against him is strange. What was he supposed to do, not take the most money he could get?
And the only semblance of an edge rush we have on the roster
He's also overpaid and not worth the contract he received. But the way some people take it so personally against him is strange. What was he supposed to do, not take the most money he could get?
This +1
.
They are stuck with him I think, don't have any damn edge rushers on this team.
If they had one or two others,
I think they would move on from him. The same I feel
would apply to the mercurial Jenkins at CB.
Who else you got around here?
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
People love to hate Vernon. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's the injury thing. As if he didn't play with a broken wrist his first year here and just likes to sit out games. Could also be because he was a Reese pick up. Idk.
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
People love to hate Vernon. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's the injury thing. As if he didn't play with a broken wrist his first year here and just likes to sit out games. Could also be because he was a Reese pick up. Idk.
It's the contract value. I like Vernon and he is clearly our best pass rusher but it's hard to justify what we are paying him based on overall production. It's a shame really because I feel like he was going to have a MONSTER year before getting that high ankle sprain in practice this season.
There's always a "because" with Vernon. There's always an explanation of why he hasn't lived up to the contract.
That assumes he hasn't lived up to the contract. I disagree with that premise.
He's definitely a top 30 ER. He's averaged 9 sacks and 23 QB hits per 16 games with the Giants. Those are good numbers. Our defense wasn't bad because we had Olivier Vernon. It was bad because he's the only good ER on the team and we don't have a coverage safety or decent number 2 corner. Hopefully, Beal and Carter can help in some of those areas. And ideally we might finally get a FS. But I don't see how Vernon is a problem.
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
People love to hate Vernon. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's the injury thing. As if he didn't play with a broken wrist his first year here and just likes to sit out games. Could also be because he was a Reese pick up. Idk.
It's the contract value. I like Vernon and he is clearly our best pass rusher but it's hard to justify what we are paying him based on overall production. It's a shame really because I feel like he was going to have a MONSTER year before getting that high ankle sprain in practice this season.
I agree he might be overpaid. But how much he's overpaid isn't a huge number. I don't think you're going to be able to get rid of Vernon and replace his production for that amount. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, because then you're getting essentially two players for him, in the pick and cap space.
I agree he might be overpaid. But how much he's overpaid isn't a huge number. I don't think you're going to be able to get rid of Vernon and replace his production for that amount. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, because then you're getting essentially two players for him, in the pick and cap space.
I agree with you. I don't think he is going anywhere though anyway, IMO he is on the defense for 2019. Hopefully we can add some help to the defense at LB and secondary... and another ER would be fantastic (Although I have high hopes for Carter).
but if salary didnt matter, he is a plus player on the field- he is not a game wrecker so not worth his $. but there are far worse things on for the giants on the field then when he is there.
he best pairing would be with a guy like Osi in a 4-3.
Sadly he's it on the field enough. And when he is not always even close to 100% he disappears.
And his "selection" to the Pro Bowl Pretty much shows that using that supposed honor is meaningless she as some Type of measure of greatness
RE: Geez...
Dave in Hoboken : 10:44 am : link : reply
In comment 14256631 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
OV + JPP = Arod's of football
Stat compilers in meaningless situations that come up small in big spots
They're not on the same planet as ARod as talents or smarts. Not to mention, ARod was the driving force in a Championship. I won't hold my breath for Vernon to do that.
just about every Yankee fan was giggling in anticipation of all the pennants/WS they would win.....
And what happened? UP 3-1 against the Sox, and Alex disappeared and the Red Sox ended the curse.......9 seasons with ARod resulted in just one pennant/WS.....he was a failure in the post season except for 2009....
There are stat machines, who just compile stats.....but some of them ARE difference makers....Arod and OV weren't....
A team that's trading to fill a spot generally overpays, giving away "too much" -- as the Giants did when they traded for Eli. That's common in all sports. The "seller"" gets overpaid, the "buyer" overpays.
Free agency is similar. The team (the buyer) overpays to fill a spot with the player (the seller). A lot of players decline, or get hurt, or whatever. Few improve, or continue to play at a high level for a long time.
Fans may wail about guys not playing up their contract, and fume about guys "stealing money" because they were hurt, but that's just the economics of the business. Guys like David Baas and Geoff Schwartz didn't steal money, they didn't work out. Vernon has been ok, not the force we hoped he'd be, but serviceable. We all wish Damontre Moore had turned into Olivier Vernon. But I guess he is "overpaid." Welcome to pro sports.
... often misattributed to either Mark Twain or Abraham Lincoln. Essentially the gist is: "It is better to remain silent and appear stupid than to tap your keyboard and remove all doubt." Apparently its fame has not spread entirely throughout BBI.
Injuries, scheme and JPP leaving town (exposing him to double-teaming) "done him in". I want to see the Giants pick up another "edge", either Bosa, Ferrell, or Allen at #6.
We know, as Giants fans what a good set of "book-end" rushers can do - two Lombardi Trophies.
There's always a "because" with Vernon. There's always an explanation of why he hasn't lived up to the contract.
That assumes he hasn't lived up to the contract. I disagree with that premise.
He's definitely a top 30 ER. He's averaged 9 sacks and 23 QB hits per 16 games with the Giants. Those are good numbers. Our defense wasn't bad because we had Olivier Vernon. It was bad because he's the only good ER on the team and we don't have a coverage safety or decent number 2 corner. Hopefully, Beal and Carter can help in some of those areas. And ideally we might finally get a FS. But I don't see how Vernon is a problem.
Vernon is the worst contract on the team. You don’t pay tip 5 money for a “top 30 ER” if he’s even that.
He wasn’t even doubled this year despite being the only ER. What does that tell you?
He’s a complimentary piece at best, not a playmaker.
OV gets grief for underperforming, for not being able to stay on the field, and for not containing his side of the field....
7.5 sacks? As pointed out, in mainly 3 games, and against backup tackles, backup qb's, etc. Name all the big plays he has made in the fourth quarter? I can name a lot that he hasn't made....
And yet, talent wise, he is probably the best edge rusher on the team.......which sadly points out the state that this team is in......
Is he is 10x the player Kareem Martin is. Martin is just absolute trash
Kareem Martin is a waste of a roster spot.. Another head scratcher by DG.. should’ve resigned Kennard who this year had more sacks then Martin has over his whole career
He’s a good player that can play at an elite level for stretches Â
But he’s got the contract that fans love to hate. The giants are better with Vernon than without. If they can let him go and adequately replace him I’m all for it but that’s a tough endeveor. You aren’t swapping out Vernon with the dead money next year and getting his equal for half the pay. Not in FA. Giants need to draft another Edge rusher that’s for sure — even if they hit on 1-2 guys this offseason having Vernon here with them would help.
Biggest injury all year was Vernon. If he plays all year at his usual level the giants probably win at least 2 more games. They need to add more players here so that they can withstand an injury or two. This last season they were thin to say the least.
Quote:
JPP was a major part of a super bowl. We don't win it without him in 2011.
+1
It’s because Giants fans suck. They want play to play for minimum wage and if they don’t and don’t perform to what they feel is equal to their pay, they become enemy number 1.
You’re talking about a fan base that acts like Jonathon Stewart is the devil and the Giants will never recover from that “crippling” contract.
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
I thought to be a stat compiler, you actually had to, you know, play in games..........
He's also overpaid and not worth the contract he received. But the way some people take it so personally against him is strange. What was he supposed to do, not take the most money he could get?
This +1
Quote:
And the only semblance of an edge rush we have on the roster
He's also overpaid and not worth the contract he received. But the way some people take it so personally against him is strange. What was he supposed to do, not take the most money he could get?
This +1
They are stuck with him I think, don't have any damn edge rushers on this team.
If they had one or two others,
I think they would move on from him. The same I feel
would apply to the mercurial Jenkins at CB.
Who else you got around here?
Will Carter ready to fill his shoes? Don't know.
Tough call.
In comment 14256650 TheMick7 said:
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
People love to hate Vernon. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's the injury thing. As if he didn't play with a broken wrist his first year here and just likes to sit out games. Could also be because he was a Reese pick up. Idk.
Quote:
love the old take on stat compilation.
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
People love to hate Vernon. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's the injury thing. As if he didn't play with a broken wrist his first year here and just likes to sit out games. Could also be because he was a Reese pick up. Idk.
It's the contract value. I like Vernon and he is clearly our best pass rusher but it's hard to justify what we are paying him based on overall production. It's a shame really because I feel like he was going to have a MONSTER year before getting that high ankle sprain in practice this season.
That assumes he hasn't lived up to the contract. I disagree with that premise.
He's definitely a top 30 ER. He's averaged 9 sacks and 23 QB hits per 16 games with the Giants. Those are good numbers. Our defense wasn't bad because we had Olivier Vernon. It was bad because he's the only good ER on the team and we don't have a coverage safety or decent number 2 corner. Hopefully, Beal and Carter can help in some of those areas. And ideally we might finally get a FS. But I don't see how Vernon is a problem.
One of the top 10 funniest posts of the year. So true, so sad.
Quote:
In comment 14256654 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
love the old take on stat compilation.
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
People love to hate Vernon. I don't know why that is. Maybe it's the injury thing. As if he didn't play with a broken wrist his first year here and just likes to sit out games. Could also be because he was a Reese pick up. Idk.
It's the contract value. I like Vernon and he is clearly our best pass rusher but it's hard to justify what we are paying him based on overall production. It's a shame really because I feel like he was going to have a MONSTER year before getting that high ankle sprain in practice this season.
I agree he might be overpaid. But how much he's overpaid isn't a huge number. I don't think you're going to be able to get rid of Vernon and replace his production for that amount. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, because then you're getting essentially two players for him, in the pick and cap space.
Nice!
I agree he might be overpaid. But how much he's overpaid isn't a huge number. I don't think you're going to be able to get rid of Vernon and replace his production for that amount. That said, I wouldn't be opposed to trading him for a 2nd or 3rd round pick, because then you're getting essentially two players for him, in the pick and cap space.
I agree with you. I don't think he is going anywhere though anyway, IMO he is on the defense for 2019. Hopefully we can add some help to the defense at LB and secondary... and another ER would be fantastic (Although I have high hopes for Carter).
he best pairing would be with a guy like Osi in a 4-3.
Sadly he's it on the field enough. And when he is not always even close to 100% he disappears.
And his "selection" to the Pro Bowl Pretty much shows that using that supposed honor is meaningless she as some Type of measure of greatness
I'm more guilty of that than anyone here. iPhones and laziness. Not a good combo for me at all. Welcome to the club
Dave in Hoboken : 10:44 am : link : reply
In comment 14256631 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
OV + JPP = Arod's of football
Stat compilers in meaningless situations that come up small in big spots
They're not on the same planet as ARod as talents or smarts. Not to mention, ARod was the driving force in a Championship. I won't hold my breath for Vernon to do that.
just about every Yankee fan was giggling in anticipation of all the pennants/WS they would win.....
And what happened? UP 3-1 against the Sox, and Alex disappeared and the Red Sox ended the curse.......9 seasons with ARod resulted in just one pennant/WS.....he was a failure in the post season except for 2009....
There are stat machines, who just compile stats.....but some of them ARE difference makers....Arod and OV weren't....
Free agency is similar. The team (the buyer) overpays to fill a spot with the player (the seller). A lot of players decline, or get hurt, or whatever. Few improve, or continue to play at a high level for a long time.
Fans may wail about guys not playing up their contract, and fume about guys "stealing money" because they were hurt, but that's just the economics of the business. Guys like David Baas and Geoff Schwartz didn't steal money, they didn't work out. Vernon has been ok, not the force we hoped he'd be, but serviceable. We all wish Damontre Moore had turned into Olivier Vernon. But I guess he is "overpaid." Welcome to pro sports.
They are almost as compelling as the arguments saying if you take away a player's longest runs, then he sucks at YPC.
Take away Barkley's longest run in every game this year and he only averaged 1.7 yards per carry!!!
Injuries, scheme and JPP leaving town (exposing him to double-teaming) "done him in". I want to see the Giants pick up another "edge", either Bosa, Ferrell, or Allen at #6.
We know, as Giants fans what a good set of "book-end" rushers can do - two Lombardi Trophies.
Quote:
There's always a "because" with Vernon. There's always an explanation of why he hasn't lived up to the contract.
That assumes he hasn't lived up to the contract. I disagree with that premise.
He's definitely a top 30 ER. He's averaged 9 sacks and 23 QB hits per 16 games with the Giants. Those are good numbers. Our defense wasn't bad because we had Olivier Vernon. It was bad because he's the only good ER on the team and we don't have a coverage safety or decent number 2 corner. Hopefully, Beal and Carter can help in some of those areas. And ideally we might finally get a FS. But I don't see how Vernon is a problem.
Vernon is the worst contract on the team. You don’t pay tip 5 money for a “top 30 ER” if he’s even that.
He wasn’t even doubled this year despite being the only ER. What does that tell you?
He’s a complimentary piece at best, not a playmaker.
Funny thing, it’s not his fault he has the contract, Reese offered, OV signed.
The question is why did we sign him to begin with? Because we didn’t draft very well. So we need to overpay for free agents.
This is why we need to draft an OLB with the first pick. Lower cost contract for a premium position.
OV gets grief for underperforming, for not being able to stay on the field, and for not containing his side of the field....
7.5 sacks? As pointed out, in mainly 3 games, and against backup tackles, backup qb's, etc. Name all the big plays he has made in the fourth quarter? I can name a lot that he hasn't made....
And yet, talent wise, he is probably the best edge rusher on the team.......which sadly points out the state that this team is in......
Kareem Martin is a waste of a roster spot.. Another head scratcher by DG.. should’ve resigned Kennard who this year had more sacks then Martin has over his whole career
Biggest injury all year was Vernon. If he plays all year at his usual level the giants probably win at least 2 more games. They need to add more players here so that they can withstand an injury or two. This last season they were thin to say the least.
Just seems his career here has been marred with injuries, QBs that slip under his grasp and not holding the edge.
But if you wonder what we are going to do at QB if Eli is released, Edge Rusher is a worry right behind that...
LOL
- Barely played
- Was outplayed by his backup Adam Koets
- Graded out as a Bottom 5 Center when he did play
Worst Pro Bowl selection in NFL history