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Schefter: Not implausible Cardinals draft Murray& trade Rosen

Giantophile : 1/10/2019 10:24 am
More talking head fodder of course, but it is an interesting point raised by Sy earlier and now being discussed nationally.

I'm still not sure what to make of Murray, but he's certainly added a lot of intrigue to this draft...
Schefter - ( New Window )
This  
RinR : 1/10/2019 10:27 am : link
is being discussed in at least 2 other threads. See Sy's.
With the Cardinals..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/10/2019 10:29 am : link
history, they'd draft Murray and then watch him sign a long-term deal in MLB!

Complete madness to consider him at #1, and shows exactly how teams will overpay/reach for QB's.
The Cards would have to be insane to take  
bradshaw44 : 1/10/2019 10:29 am : link
him #1 overall. He's 5'9". I get that he's got crazy talent but there is a point where measurables are undeniable. Not too mention the kid has an out to leave the sport if things don't go well. Just my two cents. And that's why I don't get paid the big bucks.
I thought  
Giantophile : 1/10/2019 10:29 am : link
it deserved a thread as it's elevated from BBI speculation to grade-A certified ESPN speculation...

I'll delete if it's so offensive...
RE: I thought  
Big Blue '56 : 1/10/2019 10:31 am : link
In comment 14256602 Giantophile said:
Quote:
it deserved a thread as it's elevated from BBI speculation to grade-A certified ESPN speculation...

I'll delete if it's so offensive...


Leave it. Itís fine, imo
Sy on top of things -  
ZogZerg : 1/10/2019 10:34 am : link
Nice Job!
With all the speculation this is creating  
Beer Man : 1/10/2019 10:39 am : link
it will be interesting to see if the Cardinals keep quiet or speak out immediately and denounce it.
RE: The Cards would have to be insane to take  
Beer Man : 1/10/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14256601 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
him #1 overall. He's 5'9". I get that he's got crazy talent but there is a point where measurables are undeniable. Not too mention the kid has an out to leave the sport if things don't go well. Just my two cents. And that's why I don't get paid the big bucks.
I'm sure they also have to consider the dead cap implications of trading Rosen
I could be worng..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/10/2019 10:46 am : link
but aren't dead cap hits on rookie contracts basically minimal?
RE: The Cards would have to be insane to take  
Greg from LI : 1/10/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14256601 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
the kid has an out to leave the sport if things don't go well.


This, absolutely. It seems entirely plausible that, after taking a beating for two years behind the horrid Cardinals OL, he says "The hell with this, I'm gonna go be an Oakland A now."
RE: RE: The Cards would have to be insane to take  
jcn56 : 1/10/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14256657 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 14256601 bradshaw44 said:


Quote:


the kid has an out to leave the sport if things don't go well.



This, absolutely. It seems entirely plausible that, after taking a beating for two years behind the horrid Cardinals OL, he says "The hell with this, I'm gonna go be an Oakland A now."


Drew Henson Career Simulator 2.0?
It's the reverse Drew Henson  
Greg from LI : 1/10/2019 10:53 am : link
Henson was "I can't hit a curveball, so the hell with this - I'm gonna go be a Dallas Cowboy"
Well, in Henson's defense he was consistent  
jcn56 : 1/10/2019 10:55 am : link
Consistently awful at both sports.
RE: I could be worng..  
giants#1 : 1/10/2019 10:55 am : link
In comment 14256647 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but aren't dead cap hits on rookie contracts basically minimal?


Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.

But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.
RE: I could be worng..  
ron mexico : 1/10/2019 10:58 am : link
In comment 14256647 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but aren't dead cap hits on rookie contracts basically minimal?


If the player is traded it is manageable, it wouldn't get in the way of a deal

one thing I'd like about this  
bluepepper : 1/10/2019 11:02 am : link
is the Cards taking another QB if they don't like Rosen.

So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?
RE: one thing I'd like about this  
GFAN52 : 1/10/2019 11:06 am : link
In comment 14256691 bluepepper said:
Quote:
is the Cards taking another QB if they don't like Rosen.

So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?


I doubt it happens. The Cards have massive needs in other areas.
If this happens I would think it wouldn't happen until draft day  
Rjanyg : 1/10/2019 11:28 am : link
Arizona may decide to go with Bosa with the 1st pick, wait until pick 5 has been announces to see if NYG wants to trade the 6th pick for Rosen. If I am Gettlemen, depending on who is available ( Josh Allen OLB ) I would counter with AZ including their 3rd round pick.

AZ gets Bosa and Murray. NYG Gets Rosen and a 2019 3rd round pick. We have our future QB and another pick in the top 65 to add to the other 9 picks we have. This would give DG ammo to make some moves or just stay put and select the BPA.

That seems plausible and I would sign up for this.
enough with rosen  
ArcadeSlumlord : 1/10/2019 11:49 am : link
what future does Rosen have? please stop it.
RE: RE: I thought  
adamg : 1/10/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14256603 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14256602 Giantophile said:


Quote:


it deserved a thread as it's elevated from BBI speculation to grade-A certified ESPN speculation...

I'll delete if it's so offensive...



Leave it. Itís fine, imo


I agree. This is validation of Sy from a major NFL writer. I think it deserves a thread.
How did Rosen look this year?  
Jerz44 : 1/10/2019 12:22 pm : link
If he wasnít good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?
Da faq?  
trueblueinpw : 1/10/2019 12:26 pm : link
Iím no insider but this seems completely ridiculous in all ways. Do people really think the book is written on Rosen?
People do some..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/10/2019 12:31 pm : link
strange takes.

Poor play by a rookie QB like Rosen means he is dogshit and being shopped (even though it seems to be a direct result of the new HC loving Murray), while Darnold and Allen can look poor and people say that's just rookie growing pains and they will be awesome.

One dude wants us to trade Beckham for Allen straight up. Said we'll be set for the next ten years.
RE: How did Rosen look this year?  
GiantGrit : 1/10/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14256831 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
If he wasnít good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?



His offensive line was hot garbage. Much worse than even our line.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

that said, i think its crazy people don't like the idea of having Rosen on a rookie deal with this talent around him.
Instant gratification  
figgy2989 : 1/10/2019 12:35 pm : link
Mahomes is the exception, not the rule. Most QB's struggle early in their careers. Hell Mahomes had to essentially wait a full year before becoming the starter.

What fans don't realize, is that year of game experience is much more valuable in their development. Especially when guys like Rosen where dropping back and constantly under fire.
they're writing Rosen off  
bc4life : 1/10/2019 12:37 pm : link
this quickly?
Some stats on Rosen  
GiantGrit : 1/10/2019 12:39 pm : link
No QB was pressured more often (37.2%)

No QB threw into tight windows more often (21.6%)

Or had a lower expected completion percentage (59.4%)


So he had a ton put on his shoulders year 1.
RE: People do some..  
GiantGrit : 1/10/2019 12:40 pm : link
In comment 14256845 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
strange takes.

Poor play by a rookie QB like Rosen means he is dogshit and being shopped (even though it seems to be a direct result of the new HC loving Murray), while Darnold and Allen can look poor and people say that's just rookie growing pains and they will be awesome.

One dude wants us to trade Beckham for Allen straight up. Said we'll be set for the next ten years.


What about the dude who said he would rather be the Jets than the Giants right now?
and apparently  
bc4life : 1/10/2019 12:40 pm : link
management didn't think much of HC.

I would 100% give our #6 for Rosen  
PatersonPlank : 1/10/2019 1:31 pm : link
Well worth it. Then we'd have gotten both Barkley and Rosen, and we have out "franchise" QB of the future too. Hell, there were many scouts who liked him better than Mayfield and Darnold
RE: How did Rosen look this year?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 1/10/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14256831 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
If he wasnít good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?


To be clear, the only reason this is a rumor is because of a comment that someone who wasn't even his NFL head coach made in October of 2018.

Also, everything about the Arizona Cardinals was toxic waste last year. Worse than the Giants in 2017 or 2018.
RE: RE: How did Rosen look this year?  
anon837 : 1/10/2019 1:40 pm : link
In comment 14256848 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 14256831 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


If he wasnít good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?




His offensive line was hot garbage. Much worse than even our line.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

that said, i think its crazy people don't like the idea of having Rosen on a rookie deal with this talent around him.
+1
He was getting his bell rung behind that line. If people thought the Giants OL left a lot to be desired, check out a few games of Arizona. Eli would have been on IR by week 5. In the right setting, Rosen can thrive. He has a little zip on the ball and can make all the the throws. I honestly would be more than OK with him in a Giant uniform. I can see him working well with these skill position players and a "better" OL.
RE: People do some..  
Photoguy : 1/10/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14256845 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
strange takes.

Poor play by a rookie QB like Rosen means he is dogshit and being shopped (even though it seems to be a direct result of the new HC loving Murray), while Darnold and Allen can look poor and people say that's just rookie growing pains and they will be awesome.

One dude wants us to trade Beckham for Allen straight up. Said we'll be set for the next ten years.



I remember the days when you could depend on good debate and rational discussion here. Now it's name calling, and agendas.
RE: Some stats on Rosen  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 1/10/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14256855 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
No QB was pressured more often (37.2%)

No QB threw into tight windows more often (21.6%)

Or had a lower expected completion percentage (59.4%)


So he had a ton put on his shoulders year 1.

But but but he's teh positional value mobile qb that would have won us the SB.
RE: It's the reverse Drew Henson  
Section331 : 1/10/2019 2:55 pm : link
In comment 14256665 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Henson was "I can't hit a curveball, so the hell with this - I'm gonna go be a Dallas Cowboy"


And then it became "I can't hit an open receiver".
RE: RE: I could be worng..  
Section331 : 1/10/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14256676 giants#1 said:
Quote:

Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.

But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.


Maybe I'm misreading it, but Spotrac has his dead caop money at $14.4 mill. That is a big pill to swallow for a team with so many holes.
Josh Rosen Salary Details - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I could be worng..  
Gatorade Dunk : 1/10/2019 4:20 pm : link
In comment 14257102 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14256676 giants#1 said:


Quote:



Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.

But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.



Maybe I'm misreading it, but Spotrac has his dead caop money at $14.4 mill. That is a big pill to swallow for a team with so many holes. Josh Rosen Salary Details - ( New Window )

That's because they're listing dead money if the player is cut, not traded. The difference is that in a trade, the new team assumes the guaranteed salaries, whereas if a player is cut, the original team assumes the guaranteed salaries and it becomes dead money against the cap.
Rosen  
PaulN : 1/10/2019 5:07 pm : link
Does not look like a future franchise QB to me, he could develop into a decent QB, but I would never turn over this franchise from Eli to Rosen.
qb  
jurban : 1/10/2019 5:20 pm : link
theres talk right now that marino might come out of retirement.....think the G-men might be interested???....u fucking guys with this rosen talk...get a life...geez...
RE: RE: How did Rosen look this year?  
FStubbs : 1/10/2019 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14256848 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 14256831 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


If he wasnít good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?




His offensive line was hot garbage. Much worse than even our line.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion...

that said, i think its crazy people don't like the idea of having Rosen on a rookie deal with this talent around him.


If Arizona is crazy enough to draft Murray, and then they call about Rosen for the #6 pick, I'm at least going to listen. I'd probably want their 3rd and 4th rounder back.
This place is funny sometimes  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 7:00 pm : link
Speculation that the Cardinals COULD draft Kyler Murray and trade Josh Rosen leads to the following:
- Josh Rosen sucks because the cards are trading him even though that is just a theory.
- Rosen sucks because he didn't set the league on fire as a 21 year old playing behind one of the worst offensive lines of the past three seasons. Want further proof for how bad the line was? Look at David Johnson's season.
- Rosen also had arguably the worst WR and TE cores in the league.
- The Cards had a HC who was in way over his head and was fired after 1 year.

RE: RE: RE: RE: I could be worng..  
Beer Man : 1/10/2019 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14257259 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 14257102 Section331 said:


Quote:


In comment 14256676 giants#1 said:


Quote:



Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.

But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.



Maybe I'm misreading it, but Spotrac has his dead caop money at $14.4 mill. That is a big pill to swallow for a team with so many holes. Josh Rosen Salary Details - ( New Window )


That's because they're listing dead money if the player is cut, not traded. The difference is that in a trade, the new team assumes the guaranteed salaries, whereas if a player is cut, the original team assumes the guaranteed salaries and it becomes dead money against the cap.
+1
RE: Rosen  
section125 : 1/10/2019 8:50 pm : link
In comment 14257339 PaulN said:
Quote:
Does not look like a future franchise QB to me, he could develop into a decent QB, but I would never turn over this franchise from Eli to Rosen.


I'd do it tomorrow. QB problem solved. You only need a decent QB to win - ask the Eagles. Rosen will be better than decent.
RE: RE: Rosen  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14257651 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14257339 PaulN said:


Quote:


Does not look like a future franchise QB to me, he could develop into a decent QB, but I would never turn over this franchise from Eli to Rosen.



I'd do it tomorrow. QB problem solved. You only need a decent QB to win - ask the Eagles. Rosen will be better than decent.

Agreed, I think Rosen's floor is a Foles or Alex Smith type.
Great  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 9:10 pm : link
From now until draft day I am going to dream of a roster of Rosen, Barkley, Beckham, Engram, and Shepard.
Why would Az use the 1st pick for Murray?  
George from PA : 1/10/2019 9:11 pm : link
If Murray has the baseball option, why would anyone risk drafting him.

If he wants to play in Az and everyone knows that....Az can trade back with 1st....gather extra picks....draft OL....then trade the 2nd rd pick to get back down into 1st....
RE: Why would Az use the 1st pick for Murray?  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14257672 George from PA said:
Quote:
If Murray has the baseball option, why would anyone risk drafting him.

If he wants to play in Az and everyone knows that....Az can trade back with 1st....gather extra picks....draft OL....then trade the 2nd rd pick to get back down into 1st....

That's what interviews are for to determine his intentions. He reportedly prefers football which is why he is entering the NFL draft. Just because he wants to play somewhere doesn't mean that he won't play anywhere else. I don't know why your suggesting that he wants to play in Arizona. There hasn't been a single report about Murray preferring to play for a specific organization. If they trade down Murray could be selected elsewhere.
RE: one thing I'd like about this  
markky : 1/10/2019 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14256691 bluepepper said:
Quote:
is the Cards taking another QB if they don't like Rosen.

So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?


i didn't think it would be crazy for the Browns to draft both Mayfield AND Darnold last year. why not?
RE: one thing I'd like about this  
TD : 1/11/2019 7:37 am : link
In comment 14256691 bluepepper said:
Quote:
is the Cards taking another QB if they don't like Rosen.

So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?


This!
Iíve said the same about our situation. We could easily draft a QB this and dip into the well again next year or the year after for one of the big names we keep hearing about (if we are in position the draft them). Why not? Basically giving up 2 #1 picks for a franchise QB.. which is what many teams do. Hell, we gave up more for Eli.
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