More talking head fodder of course, but it is an interesting point raised by Sy earlier and now being discussed nationally.
I'm still not sure what to make of Murray, but he's certainly added a lot of intrigue to this draft...
Schefter - (
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Complete madness to consider him at #1, and shows exactly how teams will overpay/reach for QB's.
I'll delete if it's so offensive...
I'll delete if it's so offensive...
Leave it. It’s fine, imo
This, absolutely. It seems entirely plausible that, after taking a beating for two years behind the horrid Cardinals OL, he says "The hell with this, I'm gonna go be an Oakland A now."
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the kid has an out to leave the sport if things don't go well.
This, absolutely. It seems entirely plausible that, after taking a beating for two years behind the horrid Cardinals OL, he says "The hell with this, I'm gonna go be an Oakland A now."
Drew Henson Career Simulator 2.0?
Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.
But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.
If the player is traded it is manageable, it wouldn't get in the way of a deal
So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?
So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?
I doubt it happens. The Cards have massive needs in other areas.
AZ gets Bosa and Murray. NYG Gets Rosen and a 2019 3rd round pick. We have our future QB and another pick in the top 65 to add to the other 9 picks we have. This would give DG ammo to make some moves or just stay put and select the BPA.
That seems plausible and I would sign up for this.
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it deserved a thread as it's elevated from BBI speculation to grade-A certified ESPN speculation...
I'll delete if it's so offensive...
Leave it. It’s fine, imo
I agree. This is validation of Sy from a major NFL writer. I think it deserves a thread.
Poor play by a rookie QB like Rosen means he is dogshit and being shopped (even though it seems to be a direct result of the new HC loving Murray), while Darnold and Allen can look poor and people say that's just rookie growing pains and they will be awesome.
One dude wants us to trade Beckham for Allen straight up. Said we'll be set for the next ten years.
His offensive line was hot garbage. Much worse than even our line.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...
that said, i think its crazy people don't like the idea of having Rosen on a rookie deal with this talent around him.
What fans don't realize, is that year of game experience is much more valuable in their development. Especially when guys like Rosen where dropping back and constantly under fire.
No QB threw into tight windows more often (21.6%)
Or had a lower expected completion percentage (59.4%)
So he had a ton put on his shoulders year 1.
Poor play by a rookie QB like Rosen means he is dogshit and being shopped (even though it seems to be a direct result of the new HC loving Murray), while Darnold and Allen can look poor and people say that's just rookie growing pains and they will be awesome.
One dude wants us to trade Beckham for Allen straight up. Said we'll be set for the next ten years.
What about the dude who said he would rather be the Jets than the Giants right now?
To be clear, the only reason this is a rumor is because of a comment that someone who wasn't even his NFL head coach made in October of 2018.
Also, everything about the Arizona Cardinals was toxic waste last year. Worse than the Giants in 2017 or 2018.
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If he wasn’t good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?
His offensive line was hot garbage. Much worse than even our line.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...
that said, i think its crazy people don't like the idea of having Rosen on a rookie deal with this talent around him.
He was getting his bell rung behind that line. If people thought the Giants OL left a lot to be desired, check out a few games of Arizona. Eli would have been on IR by week 5. In the right setting, Rosen can thrive. He has a little zip on the ball and can make all the the throws. I honestly would be more than OK with him in a Giant uniform. I can see him working well with these skill position players and a "better" OL.
Poor play by a rookie QB like Rosen means he is dogshit and being shopped (even though it seems to be a direct result of the new HC loving Murray), while Darnold and Allen can look poor and people say that's just rookie growing pains and they will be awesome.
One dude wants us to trade Beckham for Allen straight up. Said we'll be set for the next ten years.
I remember the days when you could depend on good debate and rational discussion here. Now it's name calling, and agendas.
No QB threw into tight windows more often (21.6%)
Or had a lower expected completion percentage (59.4%)
So he had a ton put on his shoulders year 1.
But but but he's teh positional value mobile qb that would have won us the SB.
And then it became "I can't hit an open receiver".
Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.
But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.
Maybe I'm misreading it, but Spotrac has his dead caop money at $14.4 mill. That is a big pill to swallow for a team with so many holes.
Josh Rosen Salary Details - ( New Window )
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Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.
But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.
Maybe I'm misreading it, but Spotrac has his dead caop money at $14.4 mill. That is a big pill to swallow for a team with so many holes. Josh Rosen Salary Details - ( New Window )
That's because they're listing dead money if the player is cut, not traded. The difference is that in a trade, the new team assumes the guaranteed salaries, whereas if a player is cut, the original team assumes the guaranteed salaries and it becomes dead money against the cap.
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If he wasn’t good enough to fend off rumors of being traded why would he be worth the #6 overall pick in trade?
His offensive line was hot garbage. Much worse than even our line.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion...
that said, i think its crazy people don't like the idea of having Rosen on a rookie deal with this talent around him.
If Arizona is crazy enough to draft Murray, and then they call about Rosen for the #6 pick, I'm at least going to listen. I'd probably want their 3rd and 4th rounder back.
- Josh Rosen sucks because the cards are trading him even though that is just a theory.
- Rosen sucks because he didn't set the league on fire as a 21 year old playing behind one of the worst offensive lines of the past three seasons. Want further proof for how bad the line was? Look at David Johnson's season.
- Rosen also had arguably the worst WR and TE cores in the league.
- The Cards had a HC who was in way over his head and was fired after 1 year.
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In comment 14256676 giants#1 said:
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Depends. Rosen received a $10.8M signing bonus so trading him would result in ~$7.1M in dead money which is manageable.
But for first round picks, cutting them is even worse since most of their base salaries are fully guaranteed.
Maybe I'm misreading it, but Spotrac has his dead caop money at $14.4 mill. That is a big pill to swallow for a team with so many holes. Josh Rosen Salary Details - ( New Window )
That's because they're listing dead money if the player is cut, not traded. The difference is that in a trade, the new team assumes the guaranteed salaries, whereas if a player is cut, the original team assumes the guaranteed salaries and it becomes dead money against the cap.
I'd do it tomorrow. QB problem solved. You only need a decent QB to win - ask the Eagles. Rosen will be better than decent.
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Does not look like a future franchise QB to me, he could develop into a decent QB, but I would never turn over this franchise from Eli to Rosen.
I'd do it tomorrow. QB problem solved. You only need a decent QB to win - ask the Eagles. Rosen will be better than decent.
Agreed, I think Rosen's floor is a Foles or Alex Smith type.
If he wants to play in Az and everyone knows that....Az can trade back with 1st....gather extra picks....draft OL....then trade the 2nd rd pick to get back down into 1st....
If he wants to play in Az and everyone knows that....Az can trade back with 1st....gather extra picks....draft OL....then trade the 2nd rd pick to get back down into 1st....
That's what interviews are for to determine his intentions. He reportedly prefers football which is why he is entering the NFL draft. Just because he wants to play somewhere doesn't mean that he won't play anywhere else. I don't know why your suggesting that he wants to play in Arizona. There hasn't been a single report about Murray preferring to play for a specific organization. If they trade down Murray could be selected elsewhere.
So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?
i didn't think it would be crazy for the Browns to draft both Mayfield AND Darnold last year. why not?
So much talk about QB Hell but it's predicated on the idea that if you draft a QB high you have to ride with him for 4 or 5 years. No you don't. Go take another QB the next year. The position is orders of magnitude more important than any other. Not crazy to spend multiple high draft picks over a few years on the position. Hell, that's what teams do when they trade up - except they spend multiple picks on one guy. Why not multiple picks on multiple guys?
This!
I’ve said the same about our situation. We could easily draft a QB this and dip into the well again next year or the year after for one of the big names we keep hearing about (if we are in position the draft them). Why not? Basically giving up 2 #1 picks for a franchise QB.. which is what many teams do. Hell, we gave up more for Eli.