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If the Giants release Eli tomorrow

GoBlue6599 : 1/10/2019 1:59 pm
Is there a team in the NFL that would commit to him as the QB next season as well as a big cap #. Then why should the Giants?
The only leverage Eli really has is that Mara is to much of a coward to stand up to the fans who want Eli as the QB no matter how many games the team continues to lose.
Wouldnít it make more sense to approach Eli about a paycut if not then outright release and use that money on a young player who actually has a future with this team?
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RE: Jesus Christ  
FStubbs : 1/10/2019 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14256980 Photoguy said:
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on a moped, and I though political threads were tedious.

What the fuck is it with this fan base?


Hope you like political threads, you're in one!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Two Things  
BobbyJohnson4thand17 : 1/10/2019 5:51 pm : link
In comment 14257359 ron mexico said:
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In comment 14257290 BobbyJohnson4thand17 said:


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In comment 14257276 ron mexico said:


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In comment 14257238 BobbyJohnson4thand17 said:


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In comment 14257224 ron mexico said:


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In comment 14257205 BobbyJohnson4thand17 said:


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Ron Mexico - I like you as a poster. I said less than 10M, but my bigger point was the lack of anything to support the premise of forcing Eli to retire and signing Fitzpatrick as a bridge. Since when are the NY Giants going to sign a Ryan Fitzpatrick type as a bridge? Does he have Kurt Warner's pedigree?




who cares about his pedigree? Hopefully he only plays a handful of games before the rookie (or possibly KL but that seems unlikely) takes over

It keeps getting said that we will have to spend the same amount on the QB position even if we cut Eli. Its simply not true



I see I have to spell it out a little more for you, pedigree as in you could sell Kurt Warner to Giants fans as a way to try and be competitive while bring along your #1 pick at QB. Didn't they start out 6-2 that year? You can't do that with Ryan Fitzpatrick. Instead, you tell the fans we're tanking, and we took a QB this year when the QB class is thought to be stronger next year. Easy thing to say when it's not your money/bottomline.



No one except for that poster harooni on the old Giants message board cared about Kurt warner in 2004. Everyone will be focused on the shiny new toy waiting in the wings.

But if you are insistent on having a QB with a ring fill the bridge role, maybe we can sign Flacco (kidding)



I actually prefer one with two rings (kidding). I guess you and GB6599 are all in on getting Haskins so you'll have to swing assets to pull that off so you can get your bridge QB. Tail meet dog. Now wag.



That's clearly what's it's all about for you. Keeping Eli in his job at all costs.

I think it's time to move on. No other QB has a chance with Eli on the roster.
Sometimes you have to rip the Band aid off, even if it's scary.

But if Eli is back as the starting QB next year I will cheer him on like I always have.


Love the passive aggressiveness at the end. I think I asked the OP for facts to support his opinion/rationale instead of this abstract if Eli is released tomorrow crap. I actually assess risk in my day to day and even ripping off a band aid has to entail some sort of analysis to assess the risk of doing so. All I'm asking is please provide that assessment with real world considerations like trading assets to move up in the draft to get a QB, and how savings from releasing Eli or reducing his salary helps not only sign a bridge QB but also improve the OLine and our putrid defense.

But similar to your sentiment, if we have a bridge QB starting next year, with a bright shiny object waiting in the wings, I'll cheer them and the Giants on like I always have.
If you cut Eli you dave $17mm in cap space...  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/10/2019 6:35 pm : link
Good luck finding a better QB for a 1 year $17mm commitment. Below average QBs are signing for $20mm-$30mm per year with large guarantees. Why do we want to tie up more money for a stop gap player?

Like it or not, keeping Eli for 2019 makes sense financially.
Save  
Scuzzlebutt : 1/10/2019 6:35 pm : link
.
RE: If you cut Eli you dave $17mm in cap space...  
ron mexico : 1/10/2019 6:47 pm : link
In comment 14257466 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
Good luck finding a better QB for a 1 year $17mm commitment. Below average QBs are signing for $20mm-$30mm per year with large guarantees. Why do we want to tie up more money for a stop gap player?

Like it or not, keeping Eli for 2019 makes sense financially.


The point would be to get a cheap rookie on the roster and a cheap stop gap to bridge the gap.

Very few people are calling for a market price vet replacement
Bobby Johnson  
ron mexico : 1/10/2019 6:50 pm : link
My last line is not passive aggressive at all.

I have a ton of respect and admiration for Eli , even if I think it's time to MoveOn
RE: Bobby Johnson  
Johnny5 : 1/10/2019 6:57 pm : link
In comment 14257486 ron mexico said:
Quote:
My last line is not passive aggressive at all.

I have a ton of respect and admiration for Eli , even if I think it's time to MoveOn

It's time to move on but not for the sake of just moving on. There are no vets (or anyone in this years draft) I see out there that can be had that would give us a better chance to win, especially if we keep improving the OL. Plus now he has a full year of Shurmur's system under his belt. I just don't see where cutting him makes sense in any way shape or form at this point. Sure we need to keep looking diligently for his replacement, that is a given. But I clearly see more capability in him with competent blocking than many here. Even if we were to just bolster the OL and defense a bit we will be in the mix for the division next year in my view.
RE: RE: Bobby Johnson  
GoBlue6599 : 1/10/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14257494 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 14257486 ron mexico said:


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My last line is not passive aggressive at all.

I have a ton of respect and admiration for Eli , even if I think it's time to MoveOn


It's time to move on but not for the sake of just moving on. There are no vets (or anyone in this years draft) I see out there that can be had that would give us a better chance to win, especially if we keep improving the OL. Plus now he has a full year of Shurmur's system under his belt. I just don't see where cutting him makes sense in any way shape or form at this point. Sure we need to keep looking diligently for his replacement, that is a given. But I clearly see more capability in him with competent blocking than many here. Even if we were to just bolster the OL and defense a bit we will be in the mix for the division next year in my view.

We differ, facts are we havenít beaten the Eagles or Cowboys in 2 years weíre like 0-8 against both teams. Until I see consistent wins vs either club I donít think the Giants are in the race for the division that we sadly havenít won since 2011 which is a pathetic 8 seasons ago
RE: RE: RE: Bobby Johnson  
Johnny5 : 1/10/2019 7:30 pm : link
In comment 14257517 GoBlue6599 said:
Quote:


We differ, facts are we havenít beaten the Eagles or Cowboys in 2 years weíre like 0-8 against both teams. Until I see consistent wins vs either club I donít think the Giants are in the race for the division that we sadly havenít won since 2011 which is a pathetic 8 seasons ago

I just don't see how you can argue that with improved blocking, which also greatly helps Saquon (who at one point was averaging getting contacted by the defense 6 inches after he got the handoff), we aren't in the mix especially if we add defense. Nobody in the division is crushing anyone else. Eagles barely beat us at their house the second game. The offense let us down in the 1st half of the year but it was the defense that held us back the second half of the season. I just don't see an argument against even with just better defense we are right there in the division. If Gettleman has a draft like he did last year and we sign even just one decent FA OT (Ja'wuan James, Daryl Williams), another decent LB and safety.... we are right there for the division.
Restructure Eli and give him a two year deal  
Earl the goat : 1/10/2019 7:49 pm : link
With any amount of money you save go into free agency and get a center and RT
First two rounds of draft are BPA on defense and BPA on defense

Draft your QB in 2020 There are much better QBs there and if we stink enough we get a franchise QB

Build the trenches this year
RE: RE: RE: RE: Bobby Johnson  
GoBlue6599 : 1/10/2019 7:55 pm : link
In comment 14257533 Johnny5 said:
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In comment 14257517 GoBlue6599 said:


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We differ, facts are we havenít beaten the Eagles or Cowboys in 2 years weíre like 0-8 against both teams. Until I see consistent wins vs either club I donít think the Giants are in the race for the division that we sadly havenít won since 2011 which is a pathetic 8 seasons ago


I just don't see how you can argue that with improved blocking, which also greatly helps Saquon (who at one point was averaging getting contacted by the defense 6 inches after he got the handoff), we aren't in the mix especially if we add defense. Nobody in the division is crushing anyone else. Eagles barely beat us at their house the second game. The offense let us down in the 1st half of the year but it was the defense that held us back the second half of the season. I just don't see an argument against even with just better defense we are right there in the division. If Gettleman has a draft like he did last year and we sign even just one decent FA OT (Ja'wuan James, Daryl Williams), another decent LB and safety.... we are right there for the division.

It all sounds good but I have to see it to believe it.. the Giants havenít won the division since 2011.. Every team has won it twice since then even the stinking Redskins. Pathetic really...Iím not against upgrading the blocking that much is obvious .. I also think we need a upgrade at QB desperately
What younger QB could the Giants just sign tomorrow  
Jay on the Island : 1/10/2019 8:50 pm : link
that has a "future" with the team? I didn't realize there were young franchise QB's just waiting to be signed. Unless you were suggesting that they move forward with Lauletta as the starter. What a great idea this is. Cut Eli tomorrow and just figure out who the starter will be later. What could go wrong?

I love these threads where people suggest big moves with absolutely no suggestion of a replacement.
If the Giants release him, what is the Plan ?  
Doomster : 1/10/2019 8:59 pm : link
One of the sticking points with Eli is, the roster bonus that kicks in on Mar 17, 2019...It's 5M....

If the Plan is to release Eli BEFORE Mar 17th, they create cap space of 17M, but they better have someone to replace him..... Because, if they go into the season with Tanney/Lauletta, and they stink up the joint, the fanbase will truly be in an uproar....

Maybe the Plan is, keep Eli until after the draft.....if there is no QB available that we want, we could keep Eli....but if one falls into our lap, we can still cut Eli and still save 11.5M.....think of that 5M as insurance for the draft.....

What some on this board don't seem to realize is, even though many have posted this, that Eli has a dead cap of 6.2M......it makes NO DIFFERENCE if Eli is cut, traded, retires, or is hit by a bus, that 6.2M is "dead" money that can't be used and it is part of the total Cap.

The other option is a bold one......you truly go into rebuild mode, cut him outright, save 17M to be used in FAcy, and you do go into the season with some form of Tanney/Lauletta, letting your fanbase know, you are building for the future, and one more season, of Eli at the helm is really not going to fix anything......would the Giants be accused of tanking? It's possible....Would Mara even go for something like that? It's one thing to plan to win, and yet lose....it's another thing to go into full rebuild mode, and know you are going to lose, because you know you don't have the horses......but would the owner go for it? Would players go for it? What kind of an atmosphere would it create in the locker room and on the field?

DG has a plan, and none of us are privy to it....whether it will be the right one, is a matter of conjecture....
What does a restructure do?  
Doomster : 1/10/2019 9:09 pm : link
Restructure Eli and give him a two year deal
Earl the goat : 7:49 pm : link : reply
With any amount of money you save go into free agency and get a center and RT
First two rounds of draft are BPA on defense and BPA on defense

Draft your QB in 2020 There are much better QBs there and if we stink enough we get a franchise QB

Build the trenches this year


You are just robbing Peter to pay Paul.....you will create more cap space this year, but you will pay for it next year.....

And if we stink enough? You mean with all these moves, we could stink more? If that happened, DG and Shurm & company wouldn't even last a full season next year, like their predecessors....
ďIf they truly stink up the joint the fanbase will be in an uproarĒ  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2019 10:16 pm : link
What the hell do you think the last 8 years have been? We are the definition of stinking up the joint other than being located in Cleveland, Jax or Buffalo
Jimmy,  
Doomster : 1/10/2019 10:26 pm : link
you don't think it would happen, if Eli was cut, and those were our qb's next year, and they were total failures?

What would that say about DG's ability to formulate a Plan?
You all need to start conditioning yourself that Eli has got to go  
Jimmy Googs : 1/10/2019 10:36 pm : link
for this franchise to get better. It may be worse for some transition period but then it will begin to improve.

It just really has to start...
RE: You all need to start conditioning yourself that Eli has got to go  
BlueLou'sBack : 1/11/2019 6:48 am : link
In comment 14257827 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
for this franchise to get better. It may be worse for some transition period but then it will begin to improve.

It just really has to start...


Dude, his contract ends after 2019. So far as we know, DG told Eli the Giants have decided that's it, 2019 is his last year in Blue. Ain't that soon enough?
Dude  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2019 7:46 am : link
that's for yourself to decide...
RE: You all need to start conditioning yourself that Eli has got to go  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 7:52 am : link
In comment 14257827 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
for this franchise to get better. It may be worse for some transition period but then it will begin to improve.

It just really has to start...


All I care right now is whoever replaces him is the guy for a decade. If itís haskins, fine. Lock? Fine.

I think getting a stopgap FA or a bridgewater or hell even lauletta isnít part of the solution either. No band aids.
Concerned the 10-year guy approach is muddied  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2019 8:01 am : link
by continuous delay of the inevitable...
RE: Concerned the 10-year guy approach is muddied  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 8:29 am : link
In comment 14257943 Jimmy Googs said:
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by continuous delay of the inevitable...


But replacing Eli with a band aid is delaying the rebuild as well.
RE: RE: Concerned the 10-year guy approach is muddied  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 8:37 am : link
In comment 14257963 dep026 said:
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In comment 14257943 Jimmy Googs said:


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by continuous delay of the inevitable...



But replacing Eli with a band aid is delaying the rebuild as well.


No it's not. It's the exact opposite. You are freeing up cap to invest elsewhere and give young cheap guys a chance.

Looking for a sure fire 10 year starter is a redicoulous bar to set. Even Andrew luck might not achieve that
RE: RE: RE: Concerned the 10-year guy approach is muddied  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 8:46 am : link
In comment 14257972 ron mexico said:
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In comment 14257963 dep026 said:


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In comment 14257943 Jimmy Googs said:


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by continuous delay of the inevitable...



But replacing Eli with a band aid is delaying the rebuild as well.



No it's not. It's the exact opposite. You are freeing up cap to invest elsewhere and give young cheap guys a chance.

Looking for a sure fire 10 year starter is a redicoulous bar to set. Even Andrew luck might not achieve that


That money comes off the book this year IF Eli is the QB. Plus a band aid at QB is going to take a good chunk of that 17 million we will have to pay Eli as well.

Getting a foles wil lcost more than what Eli is paid. Getting Bridgewater is going to cost us. Hell, even a Fitz is going to be pretty decent too.

If Lauletta is as bad as he looked or as the rumors have said - he cannot be a realistic option. You cannot trade for a Brissett or Mullens because the team needs the draft picks - and the asking price is going to be more than what they are worth.

If you draft a QB at #6.... fine. I am ok with that. I am not sure there is a guy there worth it, but it is what it is. If you think that this years class isnt worth it, then stick with Eli. Continue to build through the draft. We arent a QB away from the SB, so in regards to Eli's contract - its not going to prevent us from winning a SB this year.
Eli has been an albatross on this team...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2019 8:50 am : link
for at least two years.

But the clowns in this organization have chosen to draft a TE and RB the last two years instead of Mahomes or Darnold/Rosen. Had we done either, it would be such a smooth transition from Eli.

Right now, we could have Mahomes and Barkley. Or Engram and Darnold/Rosen.

Instead, we have Engram, Barkley, and no QB.


Fitz value is well established  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 8:54 am : link
And it's 3 mil per year.

Not sure why people think he is going to get 10 or more other than looking for excuses to hang on to Eli.

I don't want a bridgewater or foles. Cheap vet and young guys on rookie deals.
RE: Eli has been an albatross on this team...  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 8:56 am : link
In comment 14257982 bw in dc said:
Quote:
for at least two years.

But the clowns in this organization have chosen to draft a TE and RB the last two years instead of Mahomes or Darnold/Rosen. Had we done either, it would be such a smooth transition from Eli.

Right now, we could have Mahomes and Barkley. Or Engram and Darnold/Rosen.

Instead, we have Engram, Barkley, and no QB.



It would be impossible to have both Mahomes and Barkley. We would have had to given up our 2018 draft pick like KC did to trade up that far.

And Eli is not an albatross. We signed the richest LT in the history of the NFL. We gave Odell the richest contract for a WR.

The narratives being pushed around here are just 100% false.
RE: Fitz value is well established  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 9:00 am : link
In comment 14257984 ron mexico said:
Quote:
And it's 3 mil per year.

Not sure why people think he is going to get 10 or more other than looking for excuses to hang on to Eli.

I don't want a bridgewater or foles. Cheap vet and young guys on rookie deals.


Fitz may get more than what you think. He did produced in the limited time he was around. Even if its 5-8 million a year. What does bringing in him do? Whether fans want to believe this or not.... the Giants are going to want to win going into next year. And Eli will still give them the best chance over a Fitzpatrick type replacement.

And I said if they dont choose a rookie firt. So stop this BS narrative that people are looking for excuses to keep Eli. Getting a band aid over Eli is not the smartest move. Ive seen a lot of band aid ideas...

trade for carr or some other highly paid, under productive QB.
trade for some PS player
trade for a journey backup
Sign some castaway FA
Sign a Big name FA

There are two choices that the Giants should go with:
1. Let Eli play 1 more year.
2. Draft a rookie at #6 and go with him.

Anything else is going to set the franchise back.
Bringing Fitz in accomplishes theee things  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 9:07 am : link
Frees up cap relative to Eli.
Provides a playable option till the young guys are ready
And most importantly, gives the young guys a legitimate chance to develop, which I don't think is possible with Eli around.

Eli is going to do everything in his power to be as prepared as possible to compete and win, as he should. That means taking as many practice snaps as possible and spending a lot of time working with the coaches.

Moving in from Eli will create a vacuum that will be beneficial to the young guys. Fitz won't cast nearly the same shadow. This is obviously just my opinion as an outsider.
We have won 8 games in the past two years  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 9:08 am : link
How much further back can we go?
RE: Bringing Fitz in accomplishes theee things  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 9:11 am : link
In comment 14258009 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Frees up cap relative to Eli.
Provides a playable option till the young guys are ready
And most importantly, gives the young guys a legitimate chance to develop, which I don't think is possible with Eli around.


1. Cap space is beneficial. But that cap space will be available after next year too. And relying on free agents when you arent close to competing means you are overpaying them - which is not smart.

2. What young guys are ready? You're saying a young guy learning from Eli is NOT beneficial. They would learn more from a guy like Fitz? I am not sure that makes sense.

3. Younger players arent getting better playing with Eli? Like who? And they would get better with a worse player? What young players on offense would get better playing with a Fitz or Lauletta?

I totally dont understand points 2 and 3.

If you go with Fitz - there are NO young guys around to take over.
RE: RE: So you release Eli. Wonderful  
djstat : 1/11/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14256979 GoBlue6599 said:
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In comment 14256968 Tuckrule said:


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Whatís your plan? Who is the qb next season?


Draft Dwayne Haskins and sign a Ryan Fitzpatrick type.. the bar is set at 5 wins .. not exactly insurmountable
BAr is set at 5 wins? Loser mentality. My bar is different. We have a dynamic RB and WR. Draft a QB and Keep Eli makes much more sense then draft a rookie and sign a Fitzpatrick type.
Ok one last try  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 9:44 am : link
Cap can be rolled over

The statement that paying for free agents in the current state of the team means you will be overpaying is redicoulous. We can use that money to lock up young talent like LC that will be here for a long time. (Please don't turn this into a LC debate)

By players I'm clearly talking about QBs. If elinis here, he is the guy. He will get all the snaps and the prep time. If it's Fitz or similar, that's not the case. A void is created that that the young guys will have an opportunity to fill. That opportunity is more valuable to a young QBs development the the ability to watch Eli work.

The fact is that during Elis tenure not one back up has gone one to do a single thing, josh johnsons current run with the skins is the most success any of them have had by far. That's not Eli's fault and it's not his job to develop other players but having young QBs develop under Eli has zero track record of success
RE: Ok one last try  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 9:49 am : link
In comment 14258067 ron mexico said:
Quote:
Cap can be rolled over

The statement that paying for free agents in the current state of the team means you will be overpaying is redicoulous. We can use that money to lock up young talent like LC that will be here for a long time. (Please don't turn this into a LC debate)

By players I'm clearly talking about QBs. If elinis here, he is the guy. He will get all the snaps and the prep time. If it's Fitz or similar, that's not the case. A void is created that that the young guys will have an opportunity to fill. That opportunity is more valuable to a young QBs development the the ability to watch Eli work.

The fact is that during Elis tenure not one back up has gone one to do a single thing, josh johnsons current run with the skins is the most success any of them have had by far. That's not Eli's fault and it's not his job to develop other players but having young QBs develop under Eli has zero track record of success


Roll over cap just means more overpay. Signing FA's was lauded in 2016 - and it is now burning us. We have plenty of money to sign Collins if we want. It didnt restrict us getting Solder or signing Beckham, plus the cap is going up 10 million. So there are no worries there.

Drafting a rookie at 6 for me is that Eli WILL be gone. I thought I made that pretty clear. If we are to take a rookie at 6, then its time to move on from Eli. But if they dont feel like a QB is worthy at 6, then you play Eli and have lauletta back him up.

And I am not worried about backup QBs becoming relevant. There maybe a few cases around the NFL where the backup QB does good things on different teams, but that is sporadic at best.

Shurmur and the Giants are going to go into next year to win. If they think they can do that with Jaskins/Lock - then giddy up. If they think Eli is still good enough, then so be it.

But trading and bringing in vet backups, IMO, will not be an option. So be prepared for another year of Eli or a rookie being thrown into the fire.
RE: RE: Concerned the 10-year guy approach is muddied  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14257963 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14257943 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


by continuous delay of the inevitable...



But replacing Eli with a band aid is delaying the rebuild as well.


I disagree. In fact, for all extensive purposes Eli is the band-aid right now as there is no way we are ever going to the playoffs with him under center again...ever.

Further, he is an expensive band-aid but more importantly a band-aid that could be in the way of a rookie taking the reins if they draft one. Now, maybe Shurmur does a legit job of getting a rookie developed efficiently adn judiciously but I subscribe to some playing time/snaps as a rookie to move that along...albeit not "thrown to wolves". But that concerns me that it will not be done properly with Eli on that roster and his history here.

And some free agent band-aids (not top of the line expensive ones like Foles) might not be a bad idea if Shurmur thinks Lauletta is truly a train wreck...if. We are going to need a back-up QB too if we draft a prized rookie this year or next, so maybe the band-aid starts in 2019 and becomes the back-up thereafter so we don't have to draft another backup QB if KL doesn't work out.

All debatable but some of my views...
how is rolling over the cap going to guarantee overpaying for FAs?  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 10:03 am : link
and which is it, are we getting burned by the 2016 spending or are we not hamstrung? Cant have it both ways.

My main point is that if the thing a young guy is the future, be it Laluetta, haskins, jones greer etc...they should bridge the gap to that guy with a cheap vet instead of Eli

RE: how is rolling over the cap going to guarantee overpaying for FAs?  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 10:04 am : link
In comment 14258095 ron mexico said:
Quote:
and which is it, are we getting burned by the 2016 spending or are we not hamstrung? Cant have it both ways.

My main point is that if the thing a young guy is the future, be it Laluetta, haskins, jones greer etc...they should bridge the gap to that guy with a cheap vet instead of Eli


RM,

We arent really too far off in views. I just want a cheap vet playing though. If we draft Haskins, Lock, or whoever - then play him. Sure bring in a cheap vet to be the backup. But either try to win with the better vet (Eli vs. whoever...) or play the rookie.
dont want  
dep026 : 1/11/2019 10:05 am : link
*
Knowing this franchise  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 10:10 am : link
I highly doubt they will start a rookie or KL week one.

I wouldn't be opposed it it but I don't see it happening.
RE: RE: Eli has been an albatross on this team...  
Johnny5 : 1/11/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14257986 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14257982 bw in dc said:


Quote:


for at least two years.

But the clowns in this organization have chosen to draft a TE and RB the last two years instead of Mahomes or Darnold/Rosen. Had we done either, it would be such a smooth transition from Eli.

Right now, we could have Mahomes and Barkley. Or Engram and Darnold/Rosen.

Instead, we have Engram, Barkley, and no QB.





It would be impossible to have both Mahomes and Barkley. We would have had to given up our 2018 draft pick like KC did to trade up that far.

And Eli is not an albatross. We signed the richest LT in the history of the NFL. We gave Odell the richest contract for a WR.

The narratives being pushed around here are just 100% false.

Agree Dep. I'll say it over and over, People are focused too much on Eli. I think we can mostly agree the root of the problem is in the horrible drafting since 2008. Awful AWFUL misses on high draft picks especially on the OL. The fact is Eli is still better than what's available (and certainly better than what all the people screaming for his head make him out to be, though they may not want to admit it). Cutting him for the sake of cutting him because anger over the Giants sucking (for many reasons other than QB) is just dumb.
I think..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 1/11/2019 11:25 am : link
people focus on Eli primarily because he's been here the entire time. You even see the ridiculous "He's been the only constant" posted frequently.

It HAS to be him. He's the only thing that's stayed the same. Shit, when he leaves, we have to start blaming the Meadowlands??
RE: RE: Eli has been an albatross on this team...  
bw in dc : 1/11/2019 11:41 am : link
In comment 14257986 dep026 said:
Quote:

It would be impossible to have both Mahomes and Barkley. We would have had to given up our 2018 draft pick like KC did to trade up that far.

And Eli is not an albatross. We signed the richest LT in the history of the NFL. We gave Odell the richest contract for a WR.

The narratives being pushed around here are just 100% false.


Good catch - you are right. Assuming we would have had to offer a similar package as the Chiefs, are first round pick this year would not exist.

Okay, then we take another good RB instead in the second round - Nick Chubb. ;)

So we'd have Mahalloffame and Chubb.
Only issue  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 1/11/2019 11:42 am : link
The only thing I find wrong with the line of thinking in the OP is the belief that we will win more games without Manning and somehow still save cap money by signing a vet. I have been making the case dep made above for months now. There are two courses of action the Giants should seriously consider:

1) Cut Eli and go with Lauletta/rookie. Admit 2019 is a lost cause and allocate all of the cap savings towards other weaknesses on the team, basically anywhere on defense and the OL.

2) Keep Eli if you want to be "competitive". I'm not as down on Eli as Googs, Mook, et al. I think the Giants could contend for a wildcard spot, but I realistically think that's a stretch and I don't see them as legitimate Super Bowl contenders by any means. This path doesn't preclude the drafting of a rookie either, though I'm not sure even Haskins is worth it with the way this line is constructed.

Basically, cutting Eli because you want to win more games in 2019 is dumb. It's not going to happen, at least not in a way that actually saves the Giants money against the cap. Signing anyone who may be an upgrade will end up costing more against the cap than Eli will alone when factoring in his dead money, and nobody on the market even appears to be a significant upgrade. Trading away draft picks likewise is prohibitive in terms of rebuilding a roster that has way too many holes.
Cap'n Bluebeard  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2019 11:51 am : link
Quote:
2) Keep Eli if you want to be "competitive". I'm not as down on Eli as Googs, Mook, et al. I think the Giants could contend for a wildcard spot, but I realistically think that's a stretch and I don't see them as legitimate Super Bowl contenders by any means.


Quote:
Basically, cutting Eli because you want to win more games in 2019 is dumb.



I am not down on Eli as I clearly know he doesn't make us worse. My point is he simply does not make us marginally better either so this is a waste of time until we pursue a solution. We may not find one easily but we have to pursue it.

And I don't want to cut Eli to win more games in 2019. I want to move away from him so we can begin to win more games over the next decade and start doing it sooner versus later.

big differences...
RE: RE: RE: So you release Eli. Wonderful  
GoBlue6599 : 1/11/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14258056 djstat said:
Quote:
In comment 14256979 GoBlue6599 said:


Quote:


In comment 14256968 Tuckrule said:


Quote:


Whatís your plan? Who is the qb next season?


Draft Dwayne Haskins and sign a Ryan Fitzpatrick type.. the bar is set at 5 wins .. not exactly insurmountable

BAr is set at 5 wins? Loser mentality. My bar is different. We have a dynamic RB and WR. Draft a QB and Keep Eli makes much more sense then draft a rookie and sign a Fitzpatrick type.

You can set the bar wherever you like but the Giants are coming off a 5 win season. You must be forgetting the cap # Eli brings with him. Maybe the Giants can use that money on a young player for the OL or defense somebody with a future on this team
RE: Cap'n Bluebeard  
ron mexico : 1/11/2019 12:36 pm : link
In comment 14258256 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


Quote:


2) Keep Eli if you want to be "competitive". I'm not as down on Eli as Googs, Mook, et al. I think the Giants could contend for a wildcard spot, but I realistically think that's a stretch and I don't see them as legitimate Super Bowl contenders by any means.





Quote:


Basically, cutting Eli because you want to win more games in 2019 is dumb.




I am not down on Eli as I clearly know he doesn't make us worse. My point is he simply does not make us marginally better either so this is a waste of time until we pursue a solution. We may not find one easily but we have to pursue it.

And I don't want to cut Eli to win more games in 2019. I want to move away from him so we can begin to win more games over the next decade and start doing it sooner versus later.

big differences...


yes. the point is to get to a level of sustained success built around Barkley and Beckham. Its not about 2019
RE: Cap'n Bluebeard  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 1/11/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14258256 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


Quote:


2) Keep Eli if you want to be "competitive". I'm not as down on Eli as Googs, Mook, et al. I think the Giants could contend for a wildcard spot, but I realistically think that's a stretch and I don't see them as legitimate Super Bowl contenders by any means.





Quote:


Basically, cutting Eli because you want to win more games in 2019 is dumb.




I am not down on Eli as I clearly know he doesn't make us worse. My point is he simply does not make us marginally better either so this is a waste of time until we pursue a solution. We may not find one easily but we have to pursue it.

And I don't want to cut Eli to win more games in 2019. I want to move away from him so we can begin to win more games over the next decade and start doing it sooner versus later.

big differences...


Googs - sorry if I misinterpreted your posts over the past few months, it can be hard to tell when you are serious or when you are trolling/being sarcastic sometimes lol

Also, I didn't mean to group you in necessarily with those who seem to think that a change in QB will lead us to getting more wins automatically. My bad.

I think we actually see Eli's ability similarly at this point. His ceiling for a year's worth of play is league average. He'll have a handful of games where we see the greatness he used to have, and another handful where he's dreadful. If he averages out to league average at the end of the season, that's would be considered a "win" for him, and I no longer think that's good enough.

The problem is that this team is so poor in so many different areas that I feel like cutting Eli and signing or trading for a vet QB is cost prohibitive in terms of long term team building and not likely to improve much of anything at all anyway. We're left in the unenviable position of having to choose between sticking with a QB who will, at best, lead us to a wildcard spot and mediocre draft position or basically giving up on another season after two of the worst seasons in the history of the team.
No worries Cap'n. I am without question sarcastic  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2019 12:51 pm : link
but there is always some level of truth behind it so I understand not easily interpreted. I try to bring a little humor to comments as well as it keeps me from crying talking about the sad state of NY Giant affairs and the BBI recommended "fixes".

Regarding your last paragraph...I understand fans will look at that decision differently. But I am steadfast that we will not sniff the playoffs with Eli ever again, and even if we did I could give a shit about limping in as a one n' done wild card because no way 2007 and 2011 are coming back to life with this overall team.

We need to restructure the team and it needs to start with the guy under center if you want it to start and gain momentum...

And you all really need to lose using the word  
Jimmy Googs : 1/11/2019 12:52 pm : link
"troll" so often. Its as cringe-worthy as the poster its pertaining to...
RE: No worries Cap'n. I am without question sarcastic  
Cap'n Bluebeard : 1/11/2019 2:47 pm : link
In comment 14258357 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but there is always some level of truth behind it so I understand not easily interpreted. I try to bring a little humor to comments as well as it keeps me from crying talking about the sad state of NY Giant affairs and the BBI recommended "fixes".

Regarding your last paragraph...I understand fans will look at that decision differently. But I am steadfast that we will not sniff the playoffs with Eli ever again, and even if we did I could give a shit about limping in as a one n' done wild card because no way 2007 and 2011 are coming back to life with this overall team.

We need to restructure the team and it needs to start with the guy under center if you want it to start and gain momentum...


I basically agree with all of this. I love Eli, but I would personally probably advocate for cutting him and going with a rookie/Lauletta for 2019.

I think it's less advantageous to bring Eli back, but I understand that it may be helpful if they don't believe there is a rookie worth taking, or if they would prefer to have a rookie sit for a year and learn behind him.

Either way, I don't see them winning much in 2019 and the worst case for me is wasting cap money and/or draft picks to get a bandaid stopgap QB who will get similar results to what we would get with Eli.
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