Turned 24 today. He's young. Big question for Gettleman. Are there better values out there? Does the prospect of a 2020 comp pick plus the potential to spend more at a bigger need area off set the loss of a top SS?
Thoughts BBI?
Happy birthday, Landon!
We certainly will have a hard time finding a better player at the position.
We certainly will have a hard time finding a better player at the position.
I'd say it's almost certainly going to be a drop off in talent if they don't re-sign him.
But the potential to add some draft capital to next year's draft will be much more intriguing if they don't like the QBs in this draft. Tua potentially coming out next year makes having an extra third rounder potentially a good thing to have...
Plus, I think he is a guy that will benefit from being surrounded by talent as opposed to the guy in a defense that will make those around him better.
Long story short, we can use our resources better than signing him to a long term big money deal. I like him but ws havd had some really shitty defenses during his tenure here.
Beat me to it, this exactly.
After his rookie year, he was approached about it (I think by Spags) and was very adamant about being a safety. He dropped some weight and had his best year by far.
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but I read or heard somewhere that he doesn't want to do it.
After his rookie year, he was approached about it (I think by Spags) and was very adamant about being a safety. He dropped some weight and had his best year by far.
I could see Landon Collins in a "moneybacker" role in Bettcher's system Alabama Drone Bucannon
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14257200 81_Great_Dane said:
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but I read or heard somewhere that he doesn't want to do it.
After his rookie year, he was approached about it (I think by Spags) and was very adamant about being a safety. He dropped some weight and had his best year by far.
I could see Landon Collins in a "moneybacker" role in Bettcher's system Alabama Drone Bucannon
Ala Deone Bucannon
I get your point, but this is not Spags system and the NFL is very different these days.
Gman11 : 3:34 pm : link : reply
to utilize his skills to best serve the team. If he's in coverage all the time then that's not using him in the best way possible. Make him rush the passer more, play the run more. Use somebody else with some coverage skills back there. Of course, they might do that if they had someone else with coverage skills.
You want to pay him top SS money, but want him to be a linebacker....
I'd rather pay big money on a linebacker....
The top strong safeties average about 12M, which is the cost of franchising him...I wouldn't pay it......get somebody who can cover....
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when Spags approached him about playing LB. Link - ( New Window )
I get your point, but this is not Spags system and the NFL is very different these days.
Did 2018 not happen? Did Collins play LB last year? Do you think he is going to sign with a team where they want him to play a position he doesn't want to play? This could have happened this year so not sure what you are saying.
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Guess you could include these guys as well...
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Tre Boston
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Guess you could include these guys as well...
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Tre Boston
Joyner is 4 years older, Thomas, 5, soon to be 6, Mathieu, 3..You decide. :)
This
He can’t cover one on one, so I see why people get frustrated with him. But he is still a damn good safety
Definite resign imo
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candidate for the franchise tag and then re-sign mid or late season if his play and health are back to usual
This
Does that equate to a salary of the top 5 (or is it 10?) FREE Safeties or just of Safeties in general?
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Lamarcus Joyner
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Guess you could include these guys as well...
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Tre Boston
Joyner is 4 years older, Thomas, 5, soon to be 6, Mathieu, 3..You decide. :)
If we can get Honey Badger for what he signed for in Houston, I'd love to pair him with LC.
Granted my impression of him might be out of date.
Outside of 1 forced fumble, he didn't make any impact plays this year. No interceptions. No sacks. The further we get from his breakout year in 2016, the more he looks like a one hit wonder.
Michael Thomas made more plays than he did.
I like Collins. He seems like a good guy and he plays through his injuries every season, but he's just not worth what he'll command. He's also made comments already that he's sick of losing so I'm sure he's going to listen to other offers.
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Lamarcus Joyner
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Guess you could include these guys as well...
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Tre Boston
Joyner is 4 years older, Thomas, 5, soon to be 6, Mathieu, 3..You decide. :)
Oh, my pick would be Collins. Age, leadership, hate to lose attitude, plus his play on the field. I don't really no Amos, but he sounds like someone i would be interested in though. Boston sounds like he would be a great fit next to Collins, but i don't see how you allocate FA money both.
More contact with better dudes, better chance of shortening his career.
How quickly? That was 3 seasons ago. He had one great season 3 years ago out of 4. So did Richburg. Should we have resigned him for big money?
Yes, Collins was an animal that year. He was amazing but he isn't the same player. As someone mentioned earlier, the game has changed. He is a liability in coverage. A move to LB will not help. He'll gain weight and be even slower. He cannot cover TEs and RBs now.
You are right about one thing. He is much better when surrounded by talent. The problem is that isnt us. We would be paying him to make players around him better. No thanks. He shouldn't be the top guy on your D or paid like one. That is why I said earlier if he goes to a good defensd with a good supporting cast then that is when you'll see him blossom.
I cannot get that one game out of my head this year either when he missed so many tackles. It was embarrassing.
I cannot get that one game out of my head this year either when he missed so many tackles. It was embarrassing.
What game was that? I heard on a podcast from someone during the year, one of the beat writers that is in the lockerroom pretty much every week, that Collin's shoulder was really jacked up this season. To the point where he couldn't even lift it to get his jersey off after a game.
I have to assume that his injury played a part in that, because he's usually a pretty sure tackler.
In spite of what I might think, it seems pretty likely that the Giants will attempt to keep him.
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how dynamic and dominant he was in 2016 with solid talent around him.
How quickly? That was 3 seasons ago. He had one great season 3 years ago out of 4. So did Richburg. Should we have resigned him for big money?
Yes, Collins was an animal that year. He was amazing but he isn't the same player. As someone mentioned earlier, the game has changed. He is a liability in coverage. A move to LB will not help. He'll gain weight and be even slower. He cannot cover TEs and RBs now.
You are right about one thing. He is much better when surrounded by talent. The problem is that isnt us. We would be paying him to make players around him better. No thanks. He shouldn't be the top guy on your D or paid like one. That is why I said earlier if he goes to a good defensd with a good supporting cast then that is when you'll see him blossom.
I cannot get that one game out of my head this year either when he missed so many tackles. It was embarrassing.
He just turned 24. He's primed for this second pro contract and isn't even in his prime yet. He flashed in the two seasons since his monster year, but when he tries to do too much it often backfires on him.
If you want to build talent, you keep him and pay him a number you're ok with. If you're off the school of thought where $10-12M is too much for a top notch SS, you could make an argument to trade him.
He has shown he can be a difference maker. I would re-sign him.
And the game was against Carolina earlier in the year. Missed tackle after missed tackle. He's throwing shoulders around instead of wrapping up.
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The answer to that in the short term is almost certainly no.
But the Giants need to take a long term look at this. They arent a win now team. They need to get out of the business of overpaying players. Collins is not a great player. He's good but he has significant flaws. He is going to get too much money for what he's worth. The Giants current defense can't hide his flaws. And likely wont be able to for at least a year or two.
It's a tough decision but the correct one in my opinion is to let him walk unless he comes back on a team friendly deal. Collins isn't enough of a difference maker to pay him big money on a rebuilding team.
Hehehe. One can dream.
All D draft y'all .
Too many "ifs" associated with Collins. If he has a good free safety next to him, if he has a good defensive line, if he has this, if he has that.
Great players don't have that many ifs associated with them.
He can't cover. That's a problem in todays NFL. Why would I want to pay big money for a guy who can't cover?
This is a total rebuild that we have here. The sooner everyone realizes that the better. The Giants are going to suck with or without Landon Collins next year.
The Giants decision making process this off-season needs to be all long term. If they make any move thinking they can win in 2018, they've already failed.
I am not dead set against bringing him back, but I think he will be paid a lot more than he's worth to the Giants.
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candidate for the franchise tag and then re-sign mid or late season if his play and health are back to usual
This
What does back to usual mean? He was a very good player 1 season out of 4.
I'm not looking for flawless players. I'm looking at the best way to build a defense and that occurs with having a strong front seven. Your secondary doesn't mean shit without the guys up front. I have played corner and safety at high levels. I would never think that I could do my job effectively if I couldn't count on the guys in front of me to do their job.
We have flaws everywhere. I am not looking to replace Collins or get some stud. In fact I have stated I would probably sit out the first wave of FA and spend our money smartly by filling multiple needs instead od just trying to hit the homerun in FA.
Another reason people really like Collins is because the people in front of him haven't been getting the job done. You don't really want your secondary players leading your team in tackles. Yes, there are instances and calls where it is okay for your safety to be the first guy there but over the course of a whole season that isn't what any DC draws up. It also affects his ability to cover because he doesn't trust his teammates to make the play in front of him so he has "run" in his mind when it should be "pass". If he is constantly worried about the run then he's too easy to take advantage of in the pass game.
He's not a linebacker but just the very best "box" safety in the NFL. Spags figured that out when Collins made ALL PRO.
#1 need on this team is an outstanding pass rush, #2 and #2A are a top-tier free safety and a corner. (Riley & BW Webb are not the answers ).
The only thing that held Sanders back were his injury issues. His flaws did not show up nearly as much as Collins do.
Sanders was a force for more than 1 year
I just hope, for the sake of this team that today's front three = Snacks Harrison (run stopping wise). - SOON.
He's not a linebacker but just the very best "box" safety in the NFL. Spags figured that out when Collins made ALL PRO.
#1 need on this team is an outstanding pass rush, #2 and #2A are a top-tier free safety and a corner. (Riley & BW Webb are not the answers ).
I remember at one point in 2016 Collins lead the team in tackles, interceptions, and sacks.
The league has adjusted to him, though.
I'd love to have him back but not at a huge amount of money. I used to think someone would pay him a monster contract (if not the Giants), but I'm not sure anymore. I think the book on him is out, so he might actually come at a reasonable price.
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Guess you could include these guys as well...
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Tre Boston
Give me Collins and then Joyner in that order
Have you seen where the Giants have ranked defensively with him on the team? Safety is just not a position that changes a team unless the other pieces are in place. He isn't making an offense change their plays or their protections. Nobody cares where he is lined up unless they get him one on one against anybody. He doesn't change anything for us being on the field.
JonC : 4:43 pm : link : reply
He just turned 24. He's primed for this second pro contract and isn't even in his prime yet. He flashed in the two seasons since his monster year, but when he tries to do too much it often backfires on him.
If you want to build talent, you keep him and pay him a number you're ok with. If you're off the school of thought where $10-12M is too much for a top notch SS, you could make an argument to trade him.
Doomster : 10:13 pm : link : reply
RE: RE: How quickly they forget
JonC : 4:43 pm : link : reply
He just turned 24. He's primed for this second pro contract and isn't even in his prime yet. He flashed in the two seasons since his monster year, but when he tries to do too much it often backfires on him.
If you want to build talent, you keep him and pay him a number you're ok with. If you're off the school of thought where $10-12M is too much for a top notch SS, you could make an argument to trade him.
you can't trade him because he is an UFA!!!!!!!!
The guy had one good year....and he only plays better when surrounded by talent? What the hell does that say?
He has been injured the last two seasons.....
According to Eric, in his podcast, Collins made a comment about being sick of losing, and might be looking elsewhere in FAcy.....
That's why DG tried to trade him during the season......but he already gave Snacks away, and nobody came with a serious offer.....but right now, who wouldn't have taken a 3rd or 4th round pick if he does leave in FAcy?
If you are not OK paying Collins around $10-$11M, then ask yourself if you are OK with paying older vets OV $17M, Jenkins $14M, Ogletree $10M or Martin $5M? Giants have screwed up the cap so badly that average to subpar players are getting top of the market guaranteed contracts for little to no production.
Collins is going to be in his prime for another couple of years and he is a leader on the team.
I kind of hope they tag him AND add a coverage safety next to him. Not sure how possible that is with the cap, though.
Earl Thomas
Tyrann Mathieu
Landon Collins
Guess you could include these guys as well...
Adrian Amos
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Tre Boston
Give me Adrian Amos instead. I wanted Amos in the draft out of State Penn years ago.
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candidate for the franchise tag and then re-sign mid or late season if his play and health are back to usual
This
I really like him and would love to have him back. But, I don't want to grossly overpay to try to find out the player he really is. Givent that it is highly unlikely they can sign hjm for a reasonable deal, I would be open to letting him walk, especially given 2 factors. One, we have no idea who will be opposite him. Unless there is a significant upgrade at FS, he will not truly thrive at SS. Two, he is coming off shoulder surgery, which makes me very wary, especially for a guy whose game is physical.
But it’s not the ‘80s or the SEC. The NFL is morphing into the Big 12/PAC 12. Which is very sad because I’m attracted to his physical play, too.
However, you have to be able to cover as a safety in today’s game. Collins can’t be trusted to do that on a reliable basis. So what’s his value? A few good, big hits here and there. But a potential liability on every passing down. Sorry, but there is limited benefit.
He has to go and we need a more reliable player with skills that fit today’s game.
And the game was against Carolina earlier in the year. Missed tackle after missed tackle. He's throwing shoulders around instead of wrapping up. Link - ( New Window )
If the perspective is the same as yours, I get it, and have no problem moving along (trying to trade him first) if his camp's price target doesn't work for NYG. I've touted $10-12M as plenty, but ultimately the open market will probably deliver more cash to him, if he holds firm for it.
But, some of the perspective in this thread on how talented he is when utilized correctly and healthy is off target. He's a foundational piece. At 24, he's in the right age range to keep in blue, provided the numbers can be agreed upon.
The NFL is changing to where it's next to impossible to shut down the top offenses, the best strategy may be to play bend-dont-break, clamp down in the redzone and create drive ending plays in the form of sacks, TFLs, fumbles and interceptions. Chunk plays are okay if you follow up with a drive killer. Collins fits that philosophy. It's not as simple as "his weakness is in coverage and this is a pass league".
You sound like dep trying to defend Eli Manning.
When Collins had his best year A guy named Snacks had a
career year was head and toe above any DT in tackles
Should look for another CB as well was a big difference when we had DRC in the slot .