anyone who was associated with Urban Meyer has to be tainted. I think she only married him to get out of South Africa before her property is confiscated.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
If he was being sincere, that's all that matters to me. Not much of what any of us say makes an impact on anyone else's lives, but that doesn't keep us from espousing our POVs. If what he said resonated with one person, then good for him. Don't people turn their lives around all the time in prison? Isn't that what rehabilitation is all about?
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
If he was being sincere, that's all that matters to me. Not much of what any of us say makes an impact on anyone else's lives, but that doesn't keep us from espousing our POVs. If what he said resonated with one person, then good for him. Don't people turn their lives around all the time in prison? Isn't that what rehabilitation is all about?
Recidivism and rehabilitation are important to the taxpayer. Not so important to the P-I complex that makes far too much money to fully commit to programs slated to reduce the prison population. But that's a discussion for another time.
All I know is that this particular ESPN segment struck me as being extremely insensitive and used these inmates as pawns in the feel-good story. There were no interviews with inmates, no stories of inspiration, only about Tebow.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
Yeah... I can see how this can really bother someone with a rich and fulfilling life. This really makes Tebow seem like he is a real dope. Why try to make other people's lives better when you can be trolling a college campus.... or trolling BBI? Jeez.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
Yeah... I can see how this can really bother someone with a rich and fulfilling life. This really makes Tebow seem like he is a real dope. Why try to make other people's lives better when you can be trolling a college campus.... or trolling BBI? Jeez.
I'll try to spell this out for you. It was a blind attempt as part of his ministry. The message was completely lost on these guys because it came from some kid. I've witnessed dozens of these talks and sessions, and I've seen the same reactions. I've also seen some honestly resonate with the inmates. This wasn't one of them.
to understand human kindness. Whether is was genuine or not, who knows? Your commentary is ridiculous.
Kindness is fine - I have no problem with that. While leading a plush and cushy life he decides to pontificate to men who have no future on the outside. He holds no clout with these men. The segment was ridiculous. As someone who has advocated for inmate rights for well over a decade, I certainly don't expect someone like you to understand.
You don't share his views, so he couldn't really believe them? What is the basis for believing he is phoney?
As it relates to the prison ministering, that is a program a lot of churches follow. He may have been simply participating in a program of his church. While I can see the point that it probably doesn't mean a lot coming from a privileged 19 year old athlete, that doesn't mean he was just doing it for show. He believes the words he is passing along has power, and what the actual impact is, I would guess he was doing it with good intentions, not just because ESPN was there with a camera.
I am not a religious person at all, but I can appreciate that what he is doing is well intentioned and he should be given some credit for that.
What a life - college champion, exciting playoff win in NFL Â
you know me a lot less than you know Tim Tebow. And you know squat about him. You are incapable of having an adult conversation and resort to the low brow attack. I'm not playing with you today...
you know me a lot less than you know Tim Tebow. And you know squat about him. You are incapable of having an adult conversation and resort to the low brow attack. I'm not playing with you today...
There are no attacks. None at all. I simply don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. Not an attack. Just a simple fact.
You don't share his views, so he couldn't really believe them? What is the basis for believing he is phoney?
As it relates to the prison ministering, that is a program a lot of churches follow. He may have been simply participating in a program of his church. While I can see the point that it probably doesn't mean a lot coming from a privileged 19 year old athlete, that doesn't mean he was just doing it for show. He believes the words he is passing along has power, and what the actual impact is, I would guess he was doing it with good intentions, not just because ESPN was there with a camera.
I am not a religious person at all, but I can appreciate that what he is doing is well intentioned and he should be given some credit for that.
This is all true Mike - good post. My point is that there is a nuance to supporting inmates that is often lost on those who - while they may have good intentions - simply want to espouse the virtues of the life that they lead. The message gets lost and you can end up with some very resentful and pissed off people. I've seen it happen and it's not pretty. Far from it - it's downright sad.
He always came across to me as a hard-working, genuinely nice guy who believes what he says. However, I always thought he was a bit "simple" and a pollyanna. It's possible that a lot of that is misconstrued by his speech affectations/inflections.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
I kind of get where you're coming with this. I left a lucrative career in banking and ultimately became a teacher in a very poor rural community at an alternative school full of troubled kids. They typically have the type of troubles that I just couldn't relate to at all - even though I thought I did. The first few years I really struggled to connect and couldn't understand why the kids seemed so dismissive of my counsel/wisdom. Didn't they want to hear from me about how to have a successful life?
It took years for me to learn and understand them so that I could relate to what they were going through. I've learned enough now to know that what I was doing at first was genuine, it simply wasn't effective.
The key to being genuine though is whether you care enough about the future of the people you serve to stick around and keep getting to know them and their problems. I'd hesitate to pass judgment on him based on his initial efforts. A better question would be what has he done since?
Additionally, did you really mean it when you said it was one of the most cringe-worthy or ridiculous things you've ever seen a 19 year old do? Think about that for a minute. What about the things your inmates were doing at 19? What about other star athletes at that age? If you're honest with yourself I think you'd have to acknowledge that while it may have been ineffective, it's far from the most ridiculous or cringe-worthy action a 19 year old gets engaged in.
He has many admirable qualities. If he were to play NFL football again, I'd probably watch him play, if that was the game on TV.
But I can't stand seeing him in my Mets feed. Can hardly express how much I hate seeing Tim Tebow Mets news. What a waste of time and a roster spot. Can't they get him over to the Yankees or the Phillies or the Braves? The Nippon Ham Fighters? ANYBODY BUT THE METS. Are they a MLB team or a clickbait farm?
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
Yeah... I can see how this can really bother someone with a rich and fulfilling life. This really makes Tebow seem like he is a real dope. Why try to make other people's lives better when you can be trolling a college campus.... or trolling BBI? Jeez.
I'll try to spell this out for you. It was a blind attempt as part of his ministry. The message was completely lost on these guys because it came from some kid. I've witnessed dozens of these talks and sessions, and I've seen the same reactions. I've also seen some honestly resonate with the inmates. This wasn't one of them.
How many have you been to? Mr. Expert over here.
According to the quotes in this old article it seems some inmates got something from his visits.
I'm sure many rolled their eyes or took it as you suggest but that doesn't mean he wasn't getting through to some of them.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
I know it's hard for non-believers to understand, but to someone like Tim Tebow, the idea of "no future" is laughable. To someone like Tebow, there can be a very bright future, even to someone who's in prison for "life".
To a Christian like Tim Tebow, this life in our physical body on earth is very short; like the blink of an eye compared to the eternal spiritual life of our soul.
To criticize someone like Tebow for going out of his way while in college to speak to inmates, while 99.9% of other college kids (including myself when I was there), could care less about anyone other than ourselves and whose biggest concerns are getting drunk, high and laid, it's silly and typical of the unfair criticism of him.
with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
I know it's hard for non-believers to understand, but to someone like Tim Tebow, the idea of "no future" is laughable. To someone like Tebow, there can be a very bright future, even to someone who's in prison for "life".
To a Christian like Tim Tebow, this life in our physical body on earth is very short; like the blink of an eye compared to the eternal spiritual life of our soul.
To criticize someone like Tebow for going out of his way while in college to speak to inmates, while 99.9% of other college kids (including myself when I was there), could care less about anyone other than ourselves and whose biggest concerns are getting drunk, high and laid, it's silly and typical of the unfair criticism of him.
And there you go. Non - believers and their faults.
Sure but if he had a passion for trying to help inmates it has to start somewhere. Maybe when he was younger he had the heart for it but because of his age and inexperience was less influential but through those visits and experiences better prepared himself to help inmates as he himself matured and grew older.
We don't really know what everyone in the room felt about him for the visit you saw filmed but it obviously was something he felt committed to even after he was a college athlete and points to his sincerity.
I live near where Tebow grew up and played in HS Â
(my daughter just played against his old school in hoop recently). He did not grow up rich and as far as I could tell, he didn't act like a privileged punk while in college. He may have been one of the few who didn't... and he was the QB.
IMO, he doesn't deserve the negative crap; just the opposite.
seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
Like this girl, for example, and I think he dated that smokeshow Olivia Culpo a few years back. I mean let's not pretend that he's with these women because they're "good Christians." He's with them because they're hot. I mean these girls could be wonderful girls, but let's call a spade a spade here.
seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
Like this girl, for example, and I think he dated that smokeshow Olivia Culpo a few years back. I mean let's not pretend that he's with these women because they're "good Christians." He's with them because they're hot. I mean these girls could be wonderful girls, but let's call a spade a spade here.
So a Christian is not supposed to be attracted to someone who is pretty?
Have to give him credit for staying a virgin around this
Yeah, Lucy Pinder. See? And look, I'm not saying he shouldn't be trying to score with these hot chicks, but if you're going to act like this holier than thou, sanctimonious, pious person, at least be honest that you want to be with an attractive woman.
seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
Like this girl, for example, and I think he dated that smokeshow Olivia Culpo a few years back. I mean let's not pretend that he's with these women because they're "good Christians." He's with them because they're hot. I mean these girls could be wonderful girls, but let's call a spade a spade here.
So a Christian is not supposed to be attracted to someone who is pretty?
I would think for a pious person, physical attractiveness in a partner would be down on the list. And BTW, it's not like these girls are cute girl-next-door types. These are supermodels. Culpo? Supermodel. This chick? Miss Universe.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
re. "non believers and their faults", I'm not judging you or anyone else. Real Christians know that we ALL have faults, i.e., we ALL sin.
I'm just saying that it's probably hard for non believers to understand that someone like Tebow isn't going to prisons to get his rocks off or to boost his ego and I'm sure he wasn't being paid.
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
I would think for a pious person, physical attractiveness in a partner would be down on the list. And BTW, it's not like these girls are cute girl-next-door types. These are supermodels. Culpo? Supermodel. This chick? Miss Universe.
I think you're a smart enough guy Anakim to know better than to judge a book off its cover. I don't know about his dating history, but others on this thread appear to and have said he never dated Pinder (whoever she is).
I really don't get why a guy who says Christ (or Allah, or whoever) is most important should not date the absolutely best-looking girl who shares common beliefs.
Do you know the beliefs of the girls he dated? I sure don't, including his fiance, but I think it would be very weird if any of them were NOT of similar belief. If you could date any hot chick available, would you pick one who was way out there with her Christian beliefs? With the guys they could attract, I'm guessing they found his Christian beliefs attractive.
I would think for a pious person, physical attractiveness in a partner would be down on the list. And BTW, it's not like these girls are cute girl-next-door types. These are supermodels. Culpo? Supermodel. This chick? Miss Universe.
I think you're a smart enough guy Anakim to know better than to judge a book off its cover. I don't know about his dating history, but others on this thread appear to and have said he never dated Pinder (whoever she is).
I really don't get why a guy who says Christ (or Allah, or whoever) is most important should not date the absolutely best-looking girl who shares common beliefs.
Do you know the beliefs of the girls he dated? I sure don't, including his fiance, but I think it would be very weird if any of them were NOT of similar belief. If you could date any hot chick available, would you pick one who was way out there with her Christian beliefs? With the guys they could attract, I'm guessing they found his Christian beliefs attractive.
Sure, there is some assumption on my part, but look at these three women. Again, they may be amazing, brilliant and devout women, but they're also truly stunning women. It leads me to SUSPECT that he wasn't just in love with their souls...And again, that's fine, but then cut the "holier than thou" attitude. He's human and has flaws like the rest of us. They're all 9s and 10s. - ( New Window )
So Tebow's list of acceptable partners is limited to one per year, I guess.
There ya go. Two Miss Universes. They may truly be lovely girls, but perhaps carnal impulses rule over Tebow's life more than he wishes to acknowledge.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Why shouldn't he date girls he is attracted to? You're making no sense. Being a Christian doesn't mean you become an ugly chaser.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Why shouldn't he date girls he is attracted to? You're making no sense. Being a Christian doesn't mean you become an ugly chaser.
You're putting words in my mouth. Physical attraction means something, but for someone as sanctimonious as Tebow, I would think that physical attraction would be a bit further down on the list.
it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
RE: RE: Just because he is able to date pretty women Â
it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
Did you read the part where her Dad made everyone at the engagement party get in a circle and pray?
There are hot people in all walks of life. Tim Tebow gets the hottest Christian girls. Just works out that way. Being a Christian doesn't mean he doesn't have his tastes.
It's not like a bread line and God hands you a wife along with a Bible, and you get no choice.
why telling others about eternal salvation is looked at as something that's OK to do:
Quote:
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
RE: RE: Just because he is able to date pretty women Â
it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
You really are dense. People date others who they are attracted to in order to better get to know them in order to see if they share other things in common which are important to them. To suggest that he purposely shouldn't just because he is a Christian is ignorant.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
RE: RE: RE: Just because he is able to date pretty women Â
it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
Did you read the part where her Dad made everyone at the engagement party get in a circle and pray?
There are hot people in all walks of life. Tim Tebow gets the hottest Christian girls. Just works out that way. Being a Christian doesn't mean he doesn't have his tastes.
It's not like a bread line and God hands you a wife along with a Bible, and you get no choice.
Didn't read any of it. Just looked at the pictures :D Why the hell would I be interested that Tim Tebow got engaged?
he is in position to date very attractive women. I don't think that makes him a phony in the least bit. I'd put money in him valuing more than their looks and the same goes for the women. Tebow isn't a casual follower of the faith. His partners need to share his views or it'd be an utter nightmare of a relationship. The guy has lasted 31 years without sleeping with a woman despite being having the looks and high profile to be with anyone. Either he's conned us all or he cares very deeply about finding the right person
it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
You really are dense. People date others who they are attracted to in order to better get to know them in order to see if they share other things in common which are important to them. To suggest that he purposely shouldn't just because he is a Christian is ignorant.
Okay, and if he has dated women who are anything less than perfect, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But so far, based on what we know about his dating life, he hasn't.
Let me guess: he dated the big boobed chick above because she had a beautiful heart. Right? I thought Lust was one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Curse her perfect breasts!
Just like I can't prove that priority numero uno in his dating life is perfect women, you can't prove that he fell for these girls because of their beautiful souls and faith.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
You have zero idea how much he has valued "other things" in the women he has dated.
No shit, Steve. That's why I said "SUSPECT".
Just for clarification counselor, you said "ALLEGING" (to assert without proof. to declare with positiveness)
So according to you he shouldn't have dated pretty women, should he also avoid good food? Just bland is probably more sincere with all the starving people in the world.
why telling others about eternal salvation is looked at as something that's OK to do:
Quote:
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
Pretty good chance no one, even in prison is being forced to attend a religious lecture.
He's there to share his faith. There was probably a mix of prisoners who were curious, believers, and the majority I'd suspect there because prison sucks and is really boring and an athlete and ESPN visiting was the biggest that happened that month aside from chocolate pudding day and someone getting stabbed.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
You have zero idea how much he has valued "other things" in the women he has dated.
No shit, Steve. That's why I said "SUSPECT".
Just for clarification counselor, you said "ALLEGING" (to assert without proof. to declare with positiveness)
So according to you he shouldn't have dated pretty women, should he also avoid good food? Just bland is probably more sincere with all the starving people in the world.
I said suspect earlier, STEVE. "It leads me to SUSPECT that he wasn't just in love with their souls"
You really think that's a good comparison? Gorgeous women and good food?
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
why telling others about eternal salvation is looked at as something that's OK to do:
Quote:
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
Pretty good chance no one, even in prison is being forced to attend a religious lecture.
He's there to share his faith. There was probably a mix of prisoners who were curious, believers, and the majority I'd suspect there because prison sucks and is really boring and an athlete and ESPN visiting was the biggest that happened that month aside from chocolate pudding day and someone getting stabbed.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
why telling others about eternal salvation is looked at as something that's OK to do:
Quote:
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
FatMan, with all due respect, first, my guess is no one in the prison was forced to go to the cafeteria or wherever to hear him speak.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
You said he was a bit if a phony for doing it though, which clearly implies the idea.
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
That's basically exactly what you suggested. That he couldn't be sincere in his faith and was a phony because he dated pretty women.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Everyone wants perfect 10's who also fit a personality type. Who says she isnt also a great person? When you're young rich and famous just a lot more of those available to you I imagine.
My contention is just that if you're ripped (like Tebow is), handsome, young, rich, not a player, famous, hes probabaly swatting away 9 perfect 10's for everyone 10 he dates.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Excellent post FMiC.
While I personally don't want to hear from these Christian groups or any religious group for that matter, I only find it an intrusion if it is forced upon me. But nobody forces me. A polite no thanks usually does the trick(just like any sales pitch). I have my own cross to bare with my own religion. But as far as Tebow, his family are/were missionaries. So he is comfortable with it as that is what he grew up with, just like about 90% of people are comfortable in their own religion. Very few people convert.
The people I don't like are these TV Evangelists and their multi-million dollar lifestyles. Speaking of hubris....
have a problem with Tim Tebow for what HE believes and how he practices his faith than anything else.
When is Tim Tebow out telling people what to do? Oh, he talked in a prison. Big deal. You think anyone in his audience was forced to listen or forced to convert because of it? His religious ways have always made people feel uncomfortable.
For some reason, it bothers people. Look at Gettleman's "touched by the hand of God" comment. You'd think Gettleman forcefully baptized Barkley during a press conference the way some people harped on it and it was nothing more than a passing compliment from Gettleman (who apparently believes in God and wasn't asking anyone else to) about a player he just drafted.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
It's amazing to me how polarizing Tim Tebow is and has always been. Through all of it, he's seemed to be a genuinely good guy. Some get pissy about his religious stuff, but whatever. Ignore it if you don't like it. I don't pay much attention to it.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
Sure sounds like you do, but I've made my point. Point is, no one knows for sure. We can only speculate.
7.25 carat internally flawless diamond? That stone must have cost about $700,000. Between flying her family and friends in from SA, and getting an SA rock star to come perform, that engagement must have cost a $1M!
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
7.25 carat internally flawless diamond? That stone must have cost about $700,000. Between flying her family and friends in from SA, and getting an SA rock star to come perform, that engagement must have cost a $1M!
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
Have to wonder how much of the "over the top" approach was geared toward marketing.
I know that sounds cynical, and I AM a Tebow fan, generally. But for a guy who's an OK baseball player and who bounced out of the NFL, and who is middle-of-the-road at best as a commentator?
Eh. Maybe I can't escape my cynical side, after all.
Don't really understand how Tebow is "controversial" Â
again, I’m pretty sure no one in the prison or anywhere else that Tim Tebow speaks, is being forced to attend and listen to him.
My comment about the doctor not telling a friend of a deadly disease was obviously a metaphor. And I thought I made it clear that it was from someone like Tim Tebow’s perspective, i.e., that’s how he thinks regardless of how someone like you feels.
I understand you don’t like the metaphor, but you probably wouldn’t like any metaphor I try. But I’ll try anyway, think of it (again from a Christian’s perspective), for someone like Tebow to not speak of the Gospel is akin to not telling people of a great free gift they could have. And this great free gift is available to EVERYONE.
When I refer to Tebow as brave, I mean that he could easily practice his faith in private and not set himself up for so much hate and ridicule. Most Christians prefer to avoid being ridiculed, called stupid, believers in an imaginary friend in the sky, etc. But Christians who read the Bible know that we’re supposed to spread “the good news” (“Gospel” in Greek).
To Christians, the good news is that we (our souls) can have eternal life in heaven through faith in Jesus. The Bible says those who don’t accept this free gift will have eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light.. Basically, God won’t force those who never accepted Him to spend eternity with Him.
That probably sounds like crap to you and it’s of course your prerogative to believe whatever you want. My wife and I have multiple degrees between us, including Molecular Biology and Chemical Engineering and it’s clear to us (and most Christians) that believing in God and science is not remotely mutually exclusive.
In fact for many, including the Director of the Human Genome project (who has an MD and PhD in Genetics), the more he looked at human DNA, the more he felt it couldn’t have happened randomly or by accident. He was an atheist for about half his life, but became a Christian and someone like Tim Tebow sowed the first seeds for his belief.
Probably nothing I say is going to change your mind, so have a nice day.
If he were a devout Muslim there'd be no controversy.....
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
when you talk about things as if there is a certainty that people are missing out by not being given certain information, no - you aren't going to change my mind.
In fact, it reinforces the delusion that somehow spreading the "Good News" has a benefit. That it leads to a certain outcome. That it leads a person to eternal grace instead of damnation.
It is probably one of the biggest dividers of Planet Earth that we have, so I do not find it either positive nor compelling.
I would have caved in about .00002 seconds with those Gators chicks throwing themselves @ me.
I would've been hitting like the fist of an angry God left and right. I get depressed thinking about it, how I'll never be in that position (so to speak)
If he were a devout Muslim there'd be no controversy.....
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
You know, for someone who comes off as a douche to me often on here I usually agree w your posts.
Well said
I never said anything about a "certainty", but we will all find out some day. I'm not 100% certain, but I have a lot of reasons why I believe and I'm sure Tim Tebow does as well. You can choose to hate him (and I) or just think we're stupid or pushy or whatever.
What's the worst if Tim and I are wrong? I know I've helped a lot of people I would not have, if not for my beliefs (my wife and I have given a crapload of money to charity (including sponsoring families in South America and we lead a local chapter of a charity that has sent Christmas gifts to tens of thousands of kids around the world, who otherwise probably wouldn't have received anything).
Those are things I can guarantee you we wouldn't be doing without our beliefs. Yeah, we would give token amounts to charity, but not to the extent that it keeps us from having a nicer 2nd car or going on vacations (like last year).
I'm sure you can think of bad examples of Christians who are judgmental, but they don't seem to have exclusive rights in judging others; the judgement just comes from a different perspective.
This topic isn't about hate ot love. It is about common decency.
There is literally no reason for anyone to push their belief system on anyone else. None.
Like I said above, salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise. A belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower. The only one who benefits in a greater number capacity are those with an expected revenue flow.
My beliefs are my beliefs. I could give a rat's ass if you choose to accept them or not. I'm also a Christian, but that really isn't the point. Whether I believe in Christ as a supreme being or I believe in Joe down the street is immaterial.
What is material is that people have the onus on themselves to be the best they can be. To do the right things. To help their fellow man. That has nothing to do with Christ or Joe. It has to do with us.
on whether or not he pushes his religion on other people as Kurt Warner was known for. Tebow seems like a genuinely great human being regardless of his religious beliefs. It's unfortunate that he wasn't a great QB because he is a great role model.
but I will say, I have a daughter with special needs who has been to two of his "Night to shine" proms (and will be going to another this April) and they are pretty fantastic. He can keep the proselytizing to himself but he really does do a lot of good and "walks the walk" when it comes to things like this.
and in the end, hopefully Tebow will be known as a great person.
Could't agree more. (although I like and appreciate the work he does, I'll never be a big fan. Do the work and keep your opinions regarding religion to yourself!)
I admit I skimmed a little over your posts on this thread. I actually don't enjoy these exchanges; nothing personal. I've read your posts for it seems like 20 years and I often agree with you. But when it comes to this subject, there are a hundred things I'd rather be doing than be insulted, having my intelligence or sanity questioned (not saying you necessarily have here, but that's how it usually goes).
I agree that "salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise." And that "a belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower". That is more of a belief of a certain "religion of peace".
I also agree that there have been too many opportunists who have gotten rich off their "ministries". I don't think Tebow is one of them. I happen to think he's one of the good guys.
Salvation is a very individual and personal thing, but i guess where you and I disagree is that there are tens of millions who don't know about it. They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help.
Unfortunately, I believe the Catholic Church has done more harm than good for X number of centuries now. I know so many people, including good friends, who have turned away from God and the one common denominator is that they grew up Catholic.
People have to know that they shouldn't reject Jesus because of the sins of man-made organizations like the Catholic Church or Westboro Baptist.
Good sincere Christians like I think Tebow is, can help people see past the other BS. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything, at least not when it comes to Christianity.
But if someone like Tebow isn't telling people about the free gift of salvation, many will never know it's available or that maybe it's a good thing to want.
"They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help."
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out. Can we suspend the philosophizing, the pearl clutching, and the arguing and chew on this nugget for a bit: we are not allowed to discuss what goes on in prison unless we have been there. Get a load of Cool Hand Luke over here...
first of all, it's not his team and I'm sure Tim would be the first to tell you that. For Christians like Tebow, Jesus said there is ONE way to God. ONE way to heaven. Jesus is THE way.
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
RE: it's NOT about getting more people on his team Â
first of all, it's not his team and I'm sure Tim would be the first to tell you that. For Christians like Tebow, Jesus said there is ONE way to God. ONE way to heaven. Jesus is THE way.
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
You keep mentioning this "free gift of eternal life". What if you don't believe in it? Why does someone have to keep hearing about this? Does an atheist that leads a good, honorable life get into heaven or do you have to be in the club?
And, the bible was written and revised (countless times) for hundreds of years after Jesus died. Please don't make it out to be a factually correct historic document. There wasn't a journalist there writing down things that Jesus allegedly said.
I'm really not here to argue. I consider myself very non-confrontational. I generally try to stay away from it... but here I am.
You say you're a Christian (and who am I to question anyone), but that would normally indicate that you believe in heaven and hell (because the Bible teaches about both)... And yet you don't seem to care about how many people... end up eternally separated from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light (that's what I think hell is).
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
To have any of those viewpoints is your prerogative, but I would question if you really follow the teachings of Christ.
To not follow His teachings is also your prerogative; my main point throughout this thread is that I believe people like Tebow actually care about how many people hear "the good news". To not care, is basically saying F*k 'em.
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
Now if I were to voluntarily attend an event (say like a prison ministry as mentioned above, and I'm assuming inmates aren't being forced to attend) with a pretty clear purpose of sharing beliefs, I wouldn't be all too surprised someone is sharing their beliefs.
I tend to find someone sharing their religious faith casually in the media or an interview as benign as someone endorsing any other cause. If George Clooney casually mentions a humanitarian crisis, or Ashley Judge mentions a woman's workplace rights issue, or if Kyrie Irving mentions the Earth being flat, I feel the same level of assailed as when Tim Tebow wants to share his faith -- not assailed at all.
"They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help."
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
I worked with someone that tried to convert people. That may be worded too strongly as she wasn't pushy about it, but if it came up in convo and she would recommend coming to her church. One day I asked her why she seems interested in people becoming christians (for the record I am, but I have not practiced in many moons). She said it's because she believes the only path to heaven is to believe in Jesus and she wanted people she cared about to be there. So at least in her case, it wasn't about getting someone on her team. She wanted them to be eternally happy.
I wouldn't like people pushing their religion on me, but despite having numerous friends over the years that are very devoted to their faith no one has pushed it on me. It's something I hear about, but have never really encountered even from Teboweseque people in my life. As for Tebow, I think he's genuinely a good guy. He promotes his faith on field and i can see how that annoys some, but I don't think it'd be much of an issue of the media didn't incessantly bring it up like they have.
so maybe I have missed it but I don't recall him ever really pushing his faith on people. If he goes somewhere, or some event where he is scheduled to talk about his faith and people show up to hear, then so what? It's a free country and there is nothing wrong with that.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
so maybe I have missed it but I don't recall him ever really pushing his faith on people. If he goes somewhere, or some event where he is scheduled to talk about his faith and people show up to hear, then so what? It's a free country and there is nothing wrong with that.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
Now that I can respect. I don;t want to hear that you know something that "non-believers" don't and you're somehow obligated to share that with them (us). I have a set of beliefs that I have no need to share with you, whatever works for you is the rule I go by when it comes to religion.
Steve -- in my experience there are very, very few brow beatings, and virtually none that come out of nowhere like a surprise attack.
I'm genuinely curious what other's experiences are.
I tend not to associate with people who are pushy with their beliefs in general.
I've had the great pleasure in life of knowing some real whacky people, who believe in some stuff that's pretty weird to me. It's great to better understand people and learn what makes them tick.
If somebody is real jerk or believes in something that offends my sensibilities I like knowing that so I can run, but I can probably count them on one hand.
I guess I should accept I'm in a pretty slim minority. I'm not naive enough to think there aren't people out there pushing their beliefs. But really aside from the whackadoos on a bullhorn now again in front of Yankee Stadium, not something I encounter much if ever.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
I’m sorry but, this is just an idiotic argument.
You’re literally conflating people pushing religious values on people to football rooting interests. Makes zero sense.
He has never forced his beliefs on anyone on BBI. He has indeed professed them on here but never has he condemned nor judge any that don't believe the same.
He carries himself with respect for others and listens to their counterpoint.
Steve and I have different beliefs in many aspects but I have always enjoyed my conversations with him.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
I suspect you are greatly misunderstanding how a prison ministry works and who is on attendance.
Teboew isn't setting up a booth in the cafeteria and sneak attacking unsuspecting prisoners with a bullhorn while they eat.
it could be because of my location, but I run into religious solicitation quite a lot:
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christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
Dr. D:
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You say you're a Christian (and who am I to question anyone), but that would normally indicate that you believe in heaven and hell (because the Bible teaches about both)... And yet you don't seem to care about how many people... end up eternally separated from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light (that's what I think hell is).
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
I believe in Christ. That is the definition of a Christian. I'm not saying Fuck 'Em to those who don't believe. I'm saying that I don't care who believes. Just because I believe doesn't mean that Christ exists, so who the hell am I to tell people who they should believe in?
My minor from college is in Religion. In that coursework, I learned a shitload of information about other faiths. And I'm at peace with the idea that as humans, we are free to believe in what we choose to. Again - if God exists, does it matter if he has a singular follower or billions? It is a serious question.
I really think religion should be there to give an individual direction to be a good Human being. That's the best we can accomplish on this planet. But there are countless times in history where the guise of religion is used to govern, murder, rob and brainwash people. All in the supposed effort for everyone to believe the same thing. In that vein, saying "Fuck 'Em" is the best avenue.
By the way, I know that steve is a religious person and I've always tried to be sensitive to his beliefs because he seems like a very good person too. I do not mock religious beliefs, I simply wish they would remain personal
it could be because of my location, but I run into religious solicitation quite a lot:
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christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
One of the few times I've been solicited, I'm scurrying through the BART station in San Francisco, and it's one of these stations you can enter a mall through so it's packed.
This kick the doors down hot girl comes right to my face and says, "Are you Christian?" and I'm thinking she knows me, and thinking how did I forget a girl like you. My girlfriend at the time is equal parts not amused and laughing at me.
Gotta be one of the few times in this world proselytizing was tragically misinterpreted as a former hook-up.
This thread now reminded me of 3 incidents in my life Â
One, in college in Albany, on campus during Sukkot there were Hassidic Jewish men out of a mobile unit asking if you were Jewish. I never saw a Hassidic Jew any other time of the year in Alabany and to this sect of Hassidism, I am not even seen as Newish the rest of the year.
Two, I remember being followed fod 2 blocks after getting off the train near home by a Jew for Jesus. Guy, wouldn't leave me alone.
Three, in my first job out of college on Christmas Eve day, a co-worker asked me what I was doing that evening. I said I was waiting to hear from my friends; maybe a bar or club or movie. She asked why I wasn't doing something else like family, mass, etc. I reminded her I'm Jewish, which she knew. Her response was, "but it's Christmas." I reminded her again I was Jewish. Then she started asking me why I didn't want to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I re.inded her avain I was Jewish and then tried to end the conversation. It was truly odd.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
I couldn't disagree more. I actually think that he is one of the few that is NOT phony. Seems like a genuinely decent person. Good for him.
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
If you’re an Atheist or Agnostic of course.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
If he was being sincere, that's all that matters to me. Not much of what any of us say makes an impact on anyone else's lives, but that doesn't keep us from espousing our POVs. If what he said resonated with one person, then good for him. Don't people turn their lives around all the time in prison? Isn't that what rehabilitation is all about?
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with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
If he was being sincere, that's all that matters to me. Not much of what any of us say makes an impact on anyone else's lives, but that doesn't keep us from espousing our POVs. If what he said resonated with one person, then good for him. Don't people turn their lives around all the time in prison? Isn't that what rehabilitation is all about?
Recidivism and rehabilitation are important to the taxpayer. Not so important to the P-I complex that makes far too much money to fully commit to programs slated to reduce the prison population. But that's a discussion for another time.
All I know is that this particular ESPN segment struck me as being extremely insensitive and used these inmates as pawns in the feel-good story. There were no interviews with inmates, no stories of inspiration, only about Tebow.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
Yeah... I can see how this can really bother someone with a rich and fulfilling life. This really makes Tebow seem like he is a real dope. Why try to make other people's lives better when you can be trolling a college campus.... or trolling BBI? Jeez.
+1
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with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
Yeah... I can see how this can really bother someone with a rich and fulfilling life. This really makes Tebow seem like he is a real dope. Why try to make other people's lives better when you can be trolling a college campus.... or trolling BBI? Jeez.
I'll try to spell this out for you. It was a blind attempt as part of his ministry. The message was completely lost on these guys because it came from some kid. I've witnessed dozens of these talks and sessions, and I've seen the same reactions. I've also seen some honestly resonate with the inmates. This wasn't one of them.
How many have you been to? Mr. Expert over here.
Kindness is fine - I have no problem with that. While leading a plush and cushy life he decides to pontificate to men who have no future on the outside. He holds no clout with these men. The segment was ridiculous. As someone who has advocated for inmate rights for well over a decade, I certainly don't expect someone like you to understand.
As it relates to the prison ministering, that is a program a lot of churches follow. He may have been simply participating in a program of his church. While I can see the point that it probably doesn't mean a lot coming from a privileged 19 year old athlete, that doesn't mean he was just doing it for show. He believes the words he is passing along has power, and what the actual impact is, I would guess he was doing it with good intentions, not just because ESPN was there with a camera.
I am not a religious person at all, but I can appreciate that what he is doing is well intentioned and he should be given some credit for that.
There are no attacks. None at all. I simply don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. Not an attack. Just a simple fact.
As it relates to the prison ministering, that is a program a lot of churches follow. He may have been simply participating in a program of his church. While I can see the point that it probably doesn't mean a lot coming from a privileged 19 year old athlete, that doesn't mean he was just doing it for show. He believes the words he is passing along has power, and what the actual impact is, I would guess he was doing it with good intentions, not just because ESPN was there with a camera.
I am not a religious person at all, but I can appreciate that what he is doing is well intentioned and he should be given some credit for that.
This is all true Mike - good post. My point is that there is a nuance to supporting inmates that is often lost on those who - while they may have good intentions - simply want to espouse the virtues of the life that they lead. The message gets lost and you can end up with some very resentful and pissed off people. I've seen it happen and it's not pretty. Far from it - it's downright sad.
Have to give him credit for staying a virgin around this
Tebow's head looks cartoonishly small in proportion to his body in this photo lol
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
I kind of get where you're coming with this. I left a lucrative career in banking and ultimately became a teacher in a very poor rural community at an alternative school full of troubled kids. They typically have the type of troubles that I just couldn't relate to at all - even though I thought I did. The first few years I really struggled to connect and couldn't understand why the kids seemed so dismissive of my counsel/wisdom. Didn't they want to hear from me about how to have a successful life?
It took years for me to learn and understand them so that I could relate to what they were going through. I've learned enough now to know that what I was doing at first was genuine, it simply wasn't effective.
The key to being genuine though is whether you care enough about the future of the people you serve to stick around and keep getting to know them and their problems. I'd hesitate to pass judgment on him based on his initial efforts. A better question would be what has he done since?
Additionally, did you really mean it when you said it was one of the most cringe-worthy or ridiculous things you've ever seen a 19 year old do? Think about that for a minute. What about the things your inmates were doing at 19? What about other star athletes at that age? If you're honest with yourself I think you'd have to acknowledge that while it may have been ineffective, it's far from the most ridiculous or cringe-worthy action a 19 year old gets engaged in.
Have to give him credit for staying a virgin around this
That was never his girlfriend. That's Lucy Pinder.
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is way hotter:
Have to give him credit for staying a virgin around this
That was never his girlfriend. That's Lucy Pinder.
I think you're right, this is the one:
But I can't stand seeing him in my Mets feed. Can hardly express how much I hate seeing Tim Tebow Mets news. What a waste of time and a roster spot. Can't they get him over to the Yankees or the Phillies or the Braves? The Nippon Ham Fighters? ANYBODY BUT THE METS. Are they a MLB team or a clickbait farm?
Have to give him credit for staying a virgin around this
LOL...Well dammit I'm 0-2
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just a hot girl at UF that capitalized on that picture for some recognition.
LOL...Well dammit I'm 0-2
You may have gotten the girls wrong, but you’re 2-0 in my book.
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In comment 14257363 B in ALB said:
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with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
It was one of the most cringeworthy and ridiculous things I've witnessed in my life. Having worked with correctional systems and inmates for the last 15 years, their reaction to Tebow was pretty typical. One of disbelief and incredulity - as if this kid has ANY concept of what they're going thru on a daily basis and the ramblings of a 19 year old will make no fucking difference in our lives once we're back inside and behind bars.
It was the regular ESPN puff-piece with absolutely no concept of context. Just ridiculous. That's the only thing that ever really bothered me about Tebow - his incessant need to inject his faith into virtually everything he does and periods of complete obliviousness.
Yeah... I can see how this can really bother someone with a rich and fulfilling life. This really makes Tebow seem like he is a real dope. Why try to make other people's lives better when you can be trolling a college campus.... or trolling BBI? Jeez.
I'll try to spell this out for you. It was a blind attempt as part of his ministry. The message was completely lost on these guys because it came from some kid. I've witnessed dozens of these talks and sessions, and I've seen the same reactions. I've also seen some honestly resonate with the inmates. This wasn't one of them.
How many have you been to? Mr. Expert over here.
According to the quotes in this old article it seems some inmates got something from his visits.
I'm sure many rolled their eyes or took it as you suggest but that doesn't mean he wasn't getting through to some of them.
Regardless, either way I think he is sincere.
NY Jets quarterback Tim Tebow, through talk and prayer, is helping turn inmates' lives around - ( New Window )
I know it's hard for non-believers to understand, but to someone like Tim Tebow, the idea of "no future" is laughable. To someone like Tebow, there can be a very bright future, even to someone who's in prison for "life".
To a Christian like Tim Tebow, this life in our physical body on earth is very short; like the blink of an eye compared to the eternal spiritual life of our soul.
To criticize someone like Tebow for going out of his way while in college to speak to inmates, while 99.9% of other college kids (including myself when I was there), could care less about anyone other than ourselves and whose biggest concerns are getting drunk, high and laid, it's silly and typical of the unfair criticism of him.
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
Not even a little bit. What you see on TV is exactly what you get with Tebow. Dating back to his HS days. Awesome person.
That isn't kindness - it is telling people that if they have certain beliefs they will be better off, usually told from the standpoint of superiority
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with Tebow speaking to inmates at a maximum security prison in Florida back when he was still in college. Here was a privileged, college athlete whose only real stress in life was trying not to bang the hottest women on campus pontificating to men with no future about being a good person, trusting and god and giving yourself up to the lord.
I know it's hard for non-believers to understand, but to someone like Tim Tebow, the idea of "no future" is laughable. To someone like Tebow, there can be a very bright future, even to someone who's in prison for "life".
To a Christian like Tim Tebow, this life in our physical body on earth is very short; like the blink of an eye compared to the eternal spiritual life of our soul.
To criticize someone like Tebow for going out of his way while in college to speak to inmates, while 99.9% of other college kids (including myself when I was there), could care less about anyone other than ourselves and whose biggest concerns are getting drunk, high and laid, it's silly and typical of the unfair criticism of him.
And there you go. Non - believers and their faults.
Sure but if he had a passion for trying to help inmates it has to start somewhere. Maybe when he was younger he had the heart for it but because of his age and inexperience was less influential but through those visits and experiences better prepared himself to help inmates as he himself matured and grew older.
We don't really know what everyone in the room felt about him for the visit you saw filmed but it obviously was something he felt committed to even after he was a college athlete and points to his sincerity.
IMO, he doesn't deserve the negative crap; just the opposite.
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In comment 14257286 antdog24 said:
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
Like this girl, for example, and I think he dated that smokeshow Olivia Culpo a few years back. I mean let's not pretend that he's with these women because they're "good Christians." He's with them because they're hot. I mean these girls could be wonderful girls, but let's call a spade a spade here.
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In comment 14257319 Anakim said:
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In comment 14257286 antdog24 said:
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
Like this girl, for example, and I think he dated that smokeshow Olivia Culpo a few years back. I mean let's not pretend that he's with these women because they're "good Christians." He's with them because they're hot. I mean these girls could be wonderful girls, but let's call a spade a spade here.
So a Christian is not supposed to be attracted to someone who is pretty?
Have to give him credit for staying a virgin around this
Yeah, Lucy Pinder. See? And look, I'm not saying he shouldn't be trying to score with these hot chicks, but if you're going to act like this holier than thou, sanctimonious, pious person, at least be honest that you want to be with an attractive woman.
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In comment 14257369 bradshaw44 said:
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In comment 14257319 Anakim said:
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In comment 14257286 antdog24 said:
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
What evidence do you have to support this claim? I was just talking with a co-worker about how I couldn't stand him in college and thought he was putting on a show, but he has remained genuine through it all.
Like this girl, for example, and I think he dated that smokeshow Olivia Culpo a few years back. I mean let's not pretend that he's with these women because they're "good Christians." He's with them because they're hot. I mean these girls could be wonderful girls, but let's call a spade a spade here.
So a Christian is not supposed to be attracted to someone who is pretty?
I would think for a pious person, physical attractiveness in a partner would be down on the list. And BTW, it's not like these girls are cute girl-next-door types. These are supermodels. Culpo? Supermodel. This chick? Miss Universe.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
I'm just saying that it's probably hard for non believers to understand that someone like Tebow isn't going to prisons to get his rocks off or to boost his ego and I'm sure he wasn't being paid.
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
I would think for a pious person, physical attractiveness in a partner would be down on the list. And BTW, it's not like these girls are cute girl-next-door types. These are supermodels. Culpo? Supermodel. This chick? Miss Universe.
I think you're a smart enough guy Anakim to know better than to judge a book off its cover. I don't know about his dating history, but others on this thread appear to and have said he never dated Pinder (whoever she is).
I really don't get why a guy who says Christ (or Allah, or whoever) is most important should not date the absolutely best-looking girl who shares common beliefs.
Do you know the beliefs of the girls he dated? I sure don't, including his fiance, but I think it would be very weird if any of them were NOT of similar belief. If you could date any hot chick available, would you pick one who was way out there with her Christian beliefs? With the guys they could attract, I'm guessing they found his Christian beliefs attractive.
So Tebow's list of acceptable partners is limited to one per year, I guess.
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I would think for a pious person, physical attractiveness in a partner would be down on the list. And BTW, it's not like these girls are cute girl-next-door types. These are supermodels. Culpo? Supermodel. This chick? Miss Universe.
I think you're a smart enough guy Anakim to know better than to judge a book off its cover. I don't know about his dating history, but others on this thread appear to and have said he never dated Pinder (whoever she is).
I really don't get why a guy who says Christ (or Allah, or whoever) is most important should not date the absolutely best-looking girl who shares common beliefs.
Do you know the beliefs of the girls he dated? I sure don't, including his fiance, but I think it would be very weird if any of them were NOT of similar belief. If you could date any hot chick available, would you pick one who was way out there with her Christian beliefs? With the guys they could attract, I'm guessing they found his Christian beliefs attractive.
Sure, there is some assumption on my part, but look at these three women. Again, they may be amazing, brilliant and devout women, but they're also truly stunning women. It leads me to SUSPECT that he wasn't just in love with their souls...And again, that's fine, but then cut the "holier than thou" attitude. He's human and has flaws like the rest of us.
They're all 9s and 10s. - ( New Window )
So Tebow's list of acceptable partners is limited to one per year, I guess.
There ya go. Two Miss Universes. They may truly be lovely girls, but perhaps carnal impulses rule over Tebow's life more than he wishes to acknowledge.
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he likes pretty girls, so he's a fake?
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Why shouldn't he date girls he is attracted to? You're making no sense. Being a Christian doesn't mean you become an ugly chaser.
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In comment 14257638 Moondawg said:
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he likes pretty girls, so he's a fake?
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Why shouldn't he date girls he is attracted to? You're making no sense. Being a Christian doesn't mean you become an ugly chaser.
You're putting words in my mouth. Physical attraction means something, but for someone as sanctimonious as Tebow, I would think that physical attraction would be a bit further down on the list.
My wife is Christian and she's hot.
(sorry, not posting any pics for the pervs here, but she's told pretty often that she looks like Nicole Kidman - without any surgery).
I'm sure he could've married some hot chick before now, if that's all he cared about.
I'm sure he could've married some hot chick before now, if that's all he cared about.
He's certainly explored the field...
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
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it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
Did you read the part where her Dad made everyone at the engagement party get in a circle and pray?
There are hot people in all walks of life. Tim Tebow gets the hottest Christian girls. Just works out that way. Being a Christian doesn't mean he doesn't have his tastes.
It's not like a bread line and God hands you a wife along with a Bible, and you get no choice.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
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it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
You really are dense. People date others who they are attracted to in order to better get to know them in order to see if they share other things in common which are important to them. To suggest that he purposely shouldn't just because he is a Christian is ignorant.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
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In comment 14257658 steve in ky said:
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it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
Did you read the part where her Dad made everyone at the engagement party get in a circle and pray?
There are hot people in all walks of life. Tim Tebow gets the hottest Christian girls. Just works out that way. Being a Christian doesn't mean he doesn't have his tastes.
It's not like a bread line and God hands you a wife along with a Bible, and you get no choice.
Didn't read any of it. Just looked at the pictures :D Why the hell would I be interested that Tim Tebow got engaged?
This thread is great, more Tebow please.
You have zero idea how much he has valued "other things" in the women he has dated.
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In comment 14257658 steve in ky said:
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it doesn't mean he has lowered his standards for other attributes in a women? I am sure he wants to find a women he shares his values with and finds beautiful. Why would you expect anyone to purposely date someone he isn't attracted to, which is basically what you are suggesting he should have done?
I just showed you three girls who are nearly perfect physically. And again, this is an assumption on my part, but what exactly are the odds that he dated/fell in love/got engaged/whatever with those girls because of ANYTHING but their looks?
You really are dense. People date others who they are attracted to in order to better get to know them in order to see if they share other things in common which are important to them. To suggest that he purposely shouldn't just because he is a Christian is ignorant.
Okay, and if he has dated women who are anything less than perfect, I'd be inclined to agree with you. But so far, based on what we know about his dating life, he hasn't.
Let me guess: he dated the big boobed chick above because she had a beautiful heart. Right? I thought Lust was one of the Seven Deadly Sins. Curse her perfect breasts!
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
You have zero idea how much he has valued "other things" in the women he has dated.
No shit, Steve. That's why I said "SUSPECT".
This thread is great, more Tebow please.
Literally no one said or even alluded to that, but sure, run with it
No, I'm telling you what I SUSPECT he values. I never met the guy.
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
You have zero idea how much he has valued "other things" in the women he has dated.
No shit, Steve. That's why I said "SUSPECT".
Just for clarification counselor, you said "ALLEGING" (to assert without proof. to declare with positiveness)
So according to you he shouldn't have dated pretty women, should he also avoid good food? Just bland is probably more sincere with all the starving people in the world.
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Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
Pretty good chance no one, even in prison is being forced to attend a religious lecture.
He's there to share his faith. There was probably a mix of prisoners who were curious, believers, and the majority I'd suspect there because prison sucks and is really boring and an athlete and ESPN visiting was the biggest that happened that month aside from chocolate pudding day and someone getting stabbed.
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In comment 14257676 steve in ky said:
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
You have zero idea how much he has valued "other things" in the women he has dated.
No shit, Steve. That's why I said "SUSPECT".
Just for clarification counselor, you said "ALLEGING" (to assert without proof. to declare with positiveness)
So according to you he shouldn't have dated pretty women, should he also avoid good food? Just bland is probably more sincere with all the starving people in the world.
I said suspect earlier, STEVE. "It leads me to SUSPECT that he wasn't just in love with their souls"
You really think that's a good comparison? Gorgeous women and good food?
Actually, come to think of it...
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
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why telling others about eternal salvation is looked at as something that's OK to do:
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Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
Pretty good chance no one, even in prison is being forced to attend a religious lecture.
He's there to share his faith. There was probably a mix of prisoners who were curious, believers, and the majority I'd suspect there because prison sucks and is really boring and an athlete and ESPN visiting was the biggest that happened that month aside from chocolate pudding day and someone getting stabbed.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
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Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
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Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
FatMan, with all due respect, first, my guess is no one in the prison was forced to go to the cafeteria or wherever to hear him speak.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Does have a bit of everything, dunnit?
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and responded to you said alleging.
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Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
You said he was a bit if a phony for doing it though, which clearly implies the idea.
(It’s a joke, relax)
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and responded to you said alleging.
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Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
That's basically exactly what you suggested. That he couldn't be sincere in his faith and was a phony because he dated pretty women.
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
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he likes pretty girls, so he's a fake?
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Everyone wants perfect 10's who also fit a personality type. Who says she isnt also a great person? When you're young rich and famous just a lot more of those available to you I imagine.
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Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Excellent post FMiC.
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this is the type of bullshit I was referring to:
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Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Excellent post FMiC.
While I personally don't want to hear from these Christian groups or any religious group for that matter, I only find it an intrusion if it is forced upon me. But nobody forces me. A polite no thanks usually does the trick(just like any sales pitch). I have my own cross to bare with my own religion. But as far as Tebow, his family are/were missionaries. So he is comfortable with it as that is what he grew up with, just like about 90% of people are comfortable in their own religion. Very few people convert.
The people I don't like are these TV Evangelists and their multi-million dollar lifestyles. Speaking of hubris....
When is Tim Tebow out telling people what to do? Oh, he talked in a prison. Big deal. You think anyone in his audience was forced to listen or forced to convert because of it? His religious ways have always made people feel uncomfortable.
For some reason, it bothers people. Look at Gettleman's "touched by the hand of God" comment. You'd think Gettleman forcefully baptized Barkley during a press conference the way some people harped on it and it was nothing more than a passing compliment from Gettleman (who apparently believes in God and wasn't asking anyone else to) about a player he just drafted.
This place is great.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
This place is great.
It's amazing to me how polarizing Tim Tebow is and has always been. Through all of it, he's seemed to be a genuinely good guy. Some get pissy about his religious stuff, but whatever. Ignore it if you don't like it. I don't pay much attention to it.
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
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In comment 14257670 Anakim said:
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
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In comment 14258089 bradshaw44 said:
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In comment 14257670 Anakim said:
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
Sure sounds like you do, but I've made my point. Point is, no one knows for sure. We can only speculate.
the guy is awesome
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
Have to wonder how much of the "over the top" approach was geared toward marketing.
I know that sounds cynical, and I AM a Tebow fan, generally. But for a guy who's an OK baseball player and who bounced out of the NFL, and who is middle-of-the-road at best as a commentator?
Eh. Maybe I can't escape my cynical side, after all.
My hunch is that those who have a problem with him would not have a problem with him were he a devout follower of another religion.
Kind of like how all "right-thinking" people were supposed to boycott Chick-Fil-A a few years back.
the guy is awesome
But he's a devout Christian, and to a certain segment of people that is either suspicious, at best, or unforgivable, at worst.
My comment about the doctor not telling a friend of a deadly disease was obviously a metaphor. And I thought I made it clear that it was from someone like Tim Tebow’s perspective, i.e., that’s how he thinks regardless of how someone like you feels.
I understand you don’t like the metaphor, but you probably wouldn’t like any metaphor I try. But I’ll try anyway, think of it (again from a Christian’s perspective), for someone like Tebow to not speak of the Gospel is akin to not telling people of a great free gift they could have. And this great free gift is available to EVERYONE.
When I refer to Tebow as brave, I mean that he could easily practice his faith in private and not set himself up for so much hate and ridicule. Most Christians prefer to avoid being ridiculed, called stupid, believers in an imaginary friend in the sky, etc. But Christians who read the Bible know that we’re supposed to spread “the good news” (“Gospel” in Greek).
To Christians, the good news is that we (our souls) can have eternal life in heaven through faith in Jesus. The Bible says those who don’t accept this free gift will have eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light.. Basically, God won’t force those who never accepted Him to spend eternity with Him.
That probably sounds like crap to you and it’s of course your prerogative to believe whatever you want. My wife and I have multiple degrees between us, including Molecular Biology and Chemical Engineering and it’s clear to us (and most Christians) that believing in God and science is not remotely mutually exclusive.
In fact for many, including the Director of the Human Genome project (who has an MD and PhD in Genetics), the more he looked at human DNA, the more he felt it couldn’t have happened randomly or by accident. He was an atheist for about half his life, but became a Christian and someone like Tim Tebow sowed the first seeds for his belief.
Probably nothing I say is going to change your mind, so have a nice day.
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
In fact, it reinforces the delusion that somehow spreading the "Good News" has a benefit. That it leads to a certain outcome. That it leads a person to eternal grace instead of damnation.
It is probably one of the biggest dividers of Planet Earth that we have, so I do not find it either positive nor compelling.
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In comment 14257286 antdog24 said:
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
I couldn't disagree more. I actually think that he is one of the few that is NOT phony. Seems like a genuinely decent person. Good for him.
Nothing more real than staging your engagement for an exclusive reveal in People Magazine.
I would've been hitting like the fist of an angry God left and right. I get depressed thinking about it, how I'll never be in that position (so to speak)
Nothing more real than staging your engagement for an exclusive reveal in People Magazine.
Maybe they kicked in a few bucks towards the ring. It's not like he's getting commercials hawking credit cards to help him pay the bills.
And she is really good looking. God for them then make a pretty pair.
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
You know, for someone who comes off as a douche to me often on here I usually agree w your posts.
Well said
What's the worst if Tim and I are wrong? I know I've helped a lot of people I would not have, if not for my beliefs (my wife and I have given a crapload of money to charity (including sponsoring families in South America and we lead a local chapter of a charity that has sent Christmas gifts to tens of thousands of kids around the world, who otherwise probably wouldn't have received anything).
Those are things I can guarantee you we wouldn't be doing without our beliefs. Yeah, we would give token amounts to charity, but not to the extent that it keeps us from having a nicer 2nd car or going on vacations (like last year).
I'm sure you can think of bad examples of Christians who are judgmental, but they don't seem to have exclusive rights in judging others; the judgement just comes from a different perspective.
Have a nice night.
This topic isn't about hate ot love. It is about common decency.
There is literally no reason for anyone to push their belief system on anyone else. None.
Like I said above, salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise. A belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower. The only one who benefits in a greater number capacity are those with an expected revenue flow.
My beliefs are my beliefs. I could give a rat's ass if you choose to accept them or not. I'm also a Christian, but that really isn't the point. Whether I believe in Christ as a supreme being or I believe in Joe down the street is immaterial.
What is material is that people have the onus on themselves to be the best they can be. To do the right things. To help their fellow man. That has nothing to do with Christ or Joe. It has to do with us.
Could't agree more. (although I like and appreciate the work he does, I'll never be a big fan. Do the work and keep your opinions regarding religion to yourself!)
I agree that "salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise." And that "a belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower". That is more of a belief of a certain "religion of peace".
I also agree that there have been too many opportunists who have gotten rich off their "ministries". I don't think Tebow is one of them. I happen to think he's one of the good guys.
Salvation is a very individual and personal thing, but i guess where you and I disagree is that there are tens of millions who don't know about it. They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help.
Unfortunately, I believe the Catholic Church has done more harm than good for X number of centuries now. I know so many people, including good friends, who have turned away from God and the one common denominator is that they grew up Catholic.
People have to know that they shouldn't reject Jesus because of the sins of man-made organizations like the Catholic Church or Westboro Baptist.
Good sincere Christians like I think Tebow is, can help people see past the other BS. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything, at least not when it comes to Christianity.
But if someone like Tebow isn't telling people about the free gift of salvation, many will never know it's available or that maybe it's a good thing to want.
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
And it causes a shitload of conflict in the World today.
If you were to ask me what the biggest issue is in society today and I'd probably reply that it has to do with the misuse of religion.
There is literally no reasonable justification for trying to get another person to believe in what you do regarding God or the afterlife.
And it causes a shitload of conflict in the World today.
If you were to ask me what the biggest issue is in society today and I'd probably reply that it has to do with the misuse of religion.
There is literally no reasonable justification for trying to get another person to believe in what you do regarding God or the afterlife.
I couldn't agree more.
It's been monetized, weaponized, and used to hypnotize.
I admire people who use it wisely and quietly.
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Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out. Can we suspend the philosophizing, the pearl clutching, and the arguing and chew on this nugget for a bit: we are not allowed to discuss what goes on in prison unless we have been there. Get a load of Cool Hand Luke over here...
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
You keep mentioning this "free gift of eternal life". What if you don't believe in it? Why does someone have to keep hearing about this? Does an atheist that leads a good, honorable life get into heaven or do you have to be in the club?
And, the bible was written and revised (countless times) for hundreds of years after Jesus died. Please don't make it out to be a factually correct historic document. There wasn't a journalist there writing down things that Jesus allegedly said.
You say you're a Christian (and who am I to question anyone), but that would normally indicate that you believe in heaven and hell (because the Bible teaches about both)... And yet you don't seem to care about how many people... end up eternally separated from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light (that's what I think hell is).
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
To have any of those viewpoints is your prerogative, but I would question if you really follow the teachings of Christ.
To not follow His teachings is also your prerogative; my main point throughout this thread is that I believe people like Tebow actually care about how many people hear "the good news". To not care, is basically saying F*k 'em.
Now if I were to voluntarily attend an event (say like a prison ministry as mentioned above, and I'm assuming inmates aren't being forced to attend) with a pretty clear purpose of sharing beliefs, I wouldn't be all too surprised someone is sharing their beliefs.
I tend to find someone sharing their religious faith casually in the media or an interview as benign as someone endorsing any other cause. If George Clooney casually mentions a humanitarian crisis, or Ashley Judge mentions a woman's workplace rights issue, or if Kyrie Irving mentions the Earth being flat, I feel the same level of assailed as when Tim Tebow wants to share his faith -- not assailed at all.
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
I worked with someone that tried to convert people. That may be worded too strongly as she wasn't pushy about it, but if it came up in convo and she would recommend coming to her church. One day I asked her why she seems interested in people becoming christians (for the record I am, but I have not practiced in many moons). She said it's because she believes the only path to heaven is to believe in Jesus and she wanted people she cared about to be there. So at least in her case, it wasn't about getting someone on her team. She wanted them to be eternally happy.
I wouldn't like people pushing their religion on me, but despite having numerous friends over the years that are very devoted to their faith no one has pushed it on me. It's something I hear about, but have never really encountered even from Teboweseque people in my life. As for Tebow, I think he's genuinely a good guy. He promotes his faith on field and i can see how that annoys some, but I don't think it'd be much of an issue of the media didn't incessantly bring it up like they have.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
Now that I can respect. I don;t want to hear that you know something that "non-believers" don't and you're somehow obligated to share that with them (us). I have a set of beliefs that I have no need to share with you, whatever works for you is the rule I go by when it comes to religion.
I'm genuinely curious what other's experiences are.
I tend not to associate with people who are pushy with their beliefs in general.
I've had the great pleasure in life of knowing some real whacky people, who believe in some stuff that's pretty weird to me. It's great to better understand people and learn what makes them tick.
If somebody is real jerk or believes in something that offends my sensibilities I like knowing that so I can run, but I can probably count them on one hand.
I guess I should accept I'm in a pretty slim minority. I'm not naive enough to think there aren't people out there pushing their beliefs. But really aside from the whackadoos on a bullhorn now again in front of Yankee Stadium, not something I encounter much if ever.
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That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
I’m sorry but, this is just an idiotic argument.
You’re literally conflating people pushing religious values on people to football rooting interests. Makes zero sense.
Ridiculous.
He carries himself with respect for others and listens to their counterpoint.
Steve and I have different beliefs in many aspects but I have always enjoyed my conversations with him.
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That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
I suspect you are greatly misunderstanding how a prison ministry works and who is on attendance.
Teboew isn't setting up a booth in the cafeteria and sneak attacking unsuspecting prisoners with a bullhorn while they eat.
christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
Dr. D:
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
I believe in Christ. That is the definition of a Christian. I'm not saying Fuck 'Em to those who don't believe. I'm saying that I don't care who believes. Just because I believe doesn't mean that Christ exists, so who the hell am I to tell people who they should believe in?
My minor from college is in Religion. In that coursework, I learned a shitload of information about other faiths. And I'm at peace with the idea that as humans, we are free to believe in what we choose to. Again - if God exists, does it matter if he has a singular follower or billions? It is a serious question.
I really think religion should be there to give an individual direction to be a good Human being. That's the best we can accomplish on this planet. But there are countless times in history where the guise of religion is used to govern, murder, rob and brainwash people. All in the supposed effort for everyone to believe the same thing. In that vein, saying "Fuck 'Em" is the best avenue.
By the way, I know that steve is a religious person and I've always tried to be sensitive to his beliefs because he seems like a very good person too. I do not mock religious beliefs, I simply wish they would remain personal
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christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
One of the few times I've been solicited, I'm scurrying through the BART station in San Francisco, and it's one of these stations you can enter a mall through so it's packed.
This kick the doors down hot girl comes right to my face and says, "Are you Christian?" and I'm thinking she knows me, and thinking how did I forget a girl like you. My girlfriend at the time is equal parts not amused and laughing at me.
Gotta be one of the few times in this world proselytizing was tragically misinterpreted as a former hook-up.
Two, I remember being followed fod 2 blocks after getting off the train near home by a Jew for Jesus. Guy, wouldn't leave me alone.
Three, in my first job out of college on Christmas Eve day, a co-worker asked me what I was doing that evening. I said I was waiting to hear from my friends; maybe a bar or club or movie. She asked why I wasn't doing something else like family, mass, etc. I reminded her I'm Jewish, which she knew. Her response was, "but it's Christmas." I reminded her again I was Jewish. Then she started asking me why I didn't want to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I re.inded her avain I was Jewish and then tried to end the conversation. It was truly odd.