why telling others about eternal salvation is looked at as something that's OK to do:
Quote:
Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
FatMan, with all due respect, first, my guess is no one in the prison was forced to go to the cafeteria or wherever to hear him speak.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
You said he was a bit if a phony for doing it though, which clearly implies the idea.
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
That's basically exactly what you suggested. That he couldn't be sincere in his faith and was a phony because he dated pretty women.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Everyone wants perfect 10's who also fit a personality type. Who says she isnt also a great person? When you're young rich and famous just a lot more of those available to you I imagine.
My contention is just that if you're ripped (like Tebow is), handsome, young, rich, not a player, famous, hes probabaly swatting away 9 perfect 10's for everyone 10 he dates.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Excellent post FMiC.
While I personally don't want to hear from these Christian groups or any religious group for that matter, I only find it an intrusion if it is forced upon me. But nobody forces me. A polite no thanks usually does the trick(just like any sales pitch). I have my own cross to bare with my own religion. But as far as Tebow, his family are/were missionaries. So he is comfortable with it as that is what he grew up with, just like about 90% of people are comfortable in their own religion. Very few people convert.
The people I don't like are these TV Evangelists and their multi-million dollar lifestyles. Speaking of hubris....
have a problem with Tim Tebow for what HE believes and how he practices his faith than anything else.
When is Tim Tebow out telling people what to do? Oh, he talked in a prison. Big deal. You think anyone in his audience was forced to listen or forced to convert because of it? His religious ways have always made people feel uncomfortable.
For some reason, it bothers people. Look at Gettleman's "touched by the hand of God" comment. You'd think Gettleman forcefully baptized Barkley during a press conference the way some people harped on it and it was nothing more than a passing compliment from Gettleman (who apparently believes in God and wasn't asking anyone else to) about a player he just drafted.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
It's amazing to me how polarizing Tim Tebow is and has always been. Through all of it, he's seemed to be a genuinely good guy. Some get pissy about his religious stuff, but whatever. Ignore it if you don't like it. I don't pay much attention to it.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
Sure sounds like you do, but I've made my point. Point is, no one knows for sure. We can only speculate.
7.25 carat internally flawless diamond? That stone must have cost about $700,000. Between flying her family and friends in from SA, and getting an SA rock star to come perform, that engagement must have cost a $1M!
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
7.25 carat internally flawless diamond? That stone must have cost about $700,000. Between flying her family and friends in from SA, and getting an SA rock star to come perform, that engagement must have cost a $1M!
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
Have to wonder how much of the "over the top" approach was geared toward marketing.
I know that sounds cynical, and I AM a Tebow fan, generally. But for a guy who's an OK baseball player and who bounced out of the NFL, and who is middle-of-the-road at best as a commentator?
Eh. Maybe I can't escape my cynical side, after all.
Don't really understand how Tebow is "controversial" Â
again, I’m pretty sure no one in the prison or anywhere else that Tim Tebow speaks, is being forced to attend and listen to him.
My comment about the doctor not telling a friend of a deadly disease was obviously a metaphor. And I thought I made it clear that it was from someone like Tim Tebow’s perspective, i.e., that’s how he thinks regardless of how someone like you feels.
I understand you don’t like the metaphor, but you probably wouldn’t like any metaphor I try. But I’ll try anyway, think of it (again from a Christian’s perspective), for someone like Tebow to not speak of the Gospel is akin to not telling people of a great free gift they could have. And this great free gift is available to EVERYONE.
When I refer to Tebow as brave, I mean that he could easily practice his faith in private and not set himself up for so much hate and ridicule. Most Christians prefer to avoid being ridiculed, called stupid, believers in an imaginary friend in the sky, etc. But Christians who read the Bible know that we’re supposed to spread “the good news” (“Gospel” in Greek).
To Christians, the good news is that we (our souls) can have eternal life in heaven through faith in Jesus. The Bible says those who don’t accept this free gift will have eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light.. Basically, God won’t force those who never accepted Him to spend eternity with Him.
That probably sounds like crap to you and it’s of course your prerogative to believe whatever you want. My wife and I have multiple degrees between us, including Molecular Biology and Chemical Engineering and it’s clear to us (and most Christians) that believing in God and science is not remotely mutually exclusive.
In fact for many, including the Director of the Human Genome project (who has an MD and PhD in Genetics), the more he looked at human DNA, the more he felt it couldn’t have happened randomly or by accident. He was an atheist for about half his life, but became a Christian and someone like Tim Tebow sowed the first seeds for his belief.
Probably nothing I say is going to change your mind, so have a nice day.
If he were a devout Muslim there'd be no controversy.....
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
when you talk about things as if there is a certainty that people are missing out by not being given certain information, no - you aren't going to change my mind.
In fact, it reinforces the delusion that somehow spreading the "Good News" has a benefit. That it leads to a certain outcome. That it leads a person to eternal grace instead of damnation.
It is probably one of the biggest dividers of Planet Earth that we have, so I do not find it either positive nor compelling.
I would have caved in about .00002 seconds with those Gators chicks throwing themselves @ me.
I would've been hitting like the fist of an angry God left and right. I get depressed thinking about it, how I'll never be in that position (so to speak)
If he were a devout Muslim there'd be no controversy.....
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
You know, for someone who comes off as a douche to me often on here I usually agree w your posts.
Well said
I never said anything about a "certainty", but we will all find out some day. I'm not 100% certain, but I have a lot of reasons why I believe and I'm sure Tim Tebow does as well. You can choose to hate him (and I) or just think we're stupid or pushy or whatever.
What's the worst if Tim and I are wrong? I know I've helped a lot of people I would not have, if not for my beliefs (my wife and I have given a crapload of money to charity (including sponsoring families in South America and we lead a local chapter of a charity that has sent Christmas gifts to tens of thousands of kids around the world, who otherwise probably wouldn't have received anything).
Those are things I can guarantee you we wouldn't be doing without our beliefs. Yeah, we would give token amounts to charity, but not to the extent that it keeps us from having a nicer 2nd car or going on vacations (like last year).
I'm sure you can think of bad examples of Christians who are judgmental, but they don't seem to have exclusive rights in judging others; the judgement just comes from a different perspective.
This topic isn't about hate ot love. It is about common decency.
There is literally no reason for anyone to push their belief system on anyone else. None.
Like I said above, salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise. A belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower. The only one who benefits in a greater number capacity are those with an expected revenue flow.
My beliefs are my beliefs. I could give a rat's ass if you choose to accept them or not. I'm also a Christian, but that really isn't the point. Whether I believe in Christ as a supreme being or I believe in Joe down the street is immaterial.
What is material is that people have the onus on themselves to be the best they can be. To do the right things. To help their fellow man. That has nothing to do with Christ or Joe. It has to do with us.
on whether or not he pushes his religion on other people as Kurt Warner was known for. Tebow seems like a genuinely great human being regardless of his religious beliefs. It's unfortunate that he wasn't a great QB because he is a great role model.
but I will say, I have a daughter with special needs who has been to two of his "Night to shine" proms (and will be going to another this April) and they are pretty fantastic. He can keep the proselytizing to himself but he really does do a lot of good and "walks the walk" when it comes to things like this.
and in the end, hopefully Tebow will be known as a great person.
Could't agree more. (although I like and appreciate the work he does, I'll never be a big fan. Do the work and keep your opinions regarding religion to yourself!)
I admit I skimmed a little over your posts on this thread. I actually don't enjoy these exchanges; nothing personal. I've read your posts for it seems like 20 years and I often agree with you. But when it comes to this subject, there are a hundred things I'd rather be doing than be insulted, having my intelligence or sanity questioned (not saying you necessarily have here, but that's how it usually goes).
I agree that "salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise." And that "a belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower". That is more of a belief of a certain "religion of peace".
I also agree that there have been too many opportunists who have gotten rich off their "ministries". I don't think Tebow is one of them. I happen to think he's one of the good guys.
Salvation is a very individual and personal thing, but i guess where you and I disagree is that there are tens of millions who don't know about it. They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help.
Unfortunately, I believe the Catholic Church has done more harm than good for X number of centuries now. I know so many people, including good friends, who have turned away from God and the one common denominator is that they grew up Catholic.
People have to know that they shouldn't reject Jesus because of the sins of man-made organizations like the Catholic Church or Westboro Baptist.
Good sincere Christians like I think Tebow is, can help people see past the other BS. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything, at least not when it comes to Christianity.
But if someone like Tebow isn't telling people about the free gift of salvation, many will never know it's available or that maybe it's a good thing to want.
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Believe it or not, he is simply doing it to help others.. to know about eternal salvation. It's available to everyone. Maybe some don't accept it or get anything out of his visits, but I bet some do.
People shouldn't have to "accept it". They shouldn't be getting lectured from anyone about it. Period.
How well would it go over if satanists started telling people what they should believe in?
FatMan, with all due respect, first, my guess is no one in the prison was forced to go to the cafeteria or wherever to hear him speak.
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Does have a bit of everything, dunnit?
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and responded to you said alleging.
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Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
You said he was a bit if a phony for doing it though, which clearly implies the idea.
(It’s a joke, relax)
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and responded to you said alleging.
Quote:
Basically, what I'm ALLEGING
Anakim : 9:10 pm : link : reply
Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Look if you want to believe someone can't be a sincere Christian and date pretty women that's your prerogative, but you are wrong. There is no biblical basis for that belief.
And again, no one said that. I never once said that you couldn't do both.
That's basically exactly what you suggested. That he couldn't be sincere in his faith and was a phony because he dated pretty women.
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
Quote:
he likes pretty girls, so he's a fake?
I'm not a Christian and I don't like public displays of piety all that much; they give me the willies. But you just sound like a fool.
I didn't say he was fake (read it again). I said he was a bit of a phony. He does seem like a genuinely good dude and I know he's big in charities, but when it comes to his personal life, let's not act like he'll date anyone with a kindred spirit. He wants perfect 10s.
Everyone wants perfect 10's who also fit a personality type. Who says she isnt also a great person? When you're young rich and famous just a lot more of those available to you I imagine.
Quote:
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Excellent post FMiC.
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this is the type of bullshit I was referring to:
Quote:
Second, for a Christian like Tim Tebow (whether you agree or not - I'm speaking from their perspective), not telling people about the free GIFT of eternal salvation vs. eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, light, beauty, etc., is akin to a doctor not telling a friend that they may have a deadly disease (because they don't want to be offensive or hurt anyones feelings).
The thing is, most Christians don't feel comfortable doing what Tebow does. He/they surely don't do it because they WANT to offend anyone (Westboro Baptist is a VERY bad exception who give Christians a bad name). The braver ones like Tebow do so in a kind compassionate way because they feel obligated (because they want more people to know about the free gift - that will last an eternal lifetime).
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Excellent post FMiC.
While I personally don't want to hear from these Christian groups or any religious group for that matter, I only find it an intrusion if it is forced upon me. But nobody forces me. A polite no thanks usually does the trick(just like any sales pitch). I have my own cross to bare with my own religion. But as far as Tebow, his family are/were missionaries. So he is comfortable with it as that is what he grew up with, just like about 90% of people are comfortable in their own religion. Very few people convert.
The people I don't like are these TV Evangelists and their multi-million dollar lifestyles. Speaking of hubris....
When is Tim Tebow out telling people what to do? Oh, he talked in a prison. Big deal. You think anyone in his audience was forced to listen or forced to convert because of it? His religious ways have always made people feel uncomfortable.
For some reason, it bothers people. Look at Gettleman's "touched by the hand of God" comment. You'd think Gettleman forcefully baptized Barkley during a press conference the way some people harped on it and it was nothing more than a passing compliment from Gettleman (who apparently believes in God and wasn't asking anyone else to) about a player he just drafted.
This place is great.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
This place is great.
It's amazing to me how polarizing Tim Tebow is and has always been. Through all of it, he's seemed to be a genuinely good guy. Some get pissy about his religious stuff, but whatever. Ignore it if you don't like it. I don't pay much attention to it.
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
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In comment 14257670 Anakim said:
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
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In comment 14258089 bradshaw44 said:
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In comment 14257670 Anakim said:
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Is when it comes to women, looks come first to Tebow and the other things are just gravy.
Again, never met him. Never met his past girlfriends and don't really know anything about them. But I find it somewhat suspicious that someone as self-righteous as Tim Tebow portends to be only dates physically flawless women.
Physical attraction is still important to people. Just because he is religious doesn’t mean he can’t appreciate beauty. And when did it become a prerequisite for religous people to marry for brains alone?
Overall I understand your point. But when it comes to procreation physical attraction is still important.
No doubt, and I'm not saying it's not, but it just seems to me that physical attraction to Tebow is more important than other factors...or at least, physical perfection (which is what those three girls are) is absolutely necessary in a partner.
Maybe you can't read his mind. Isn't intellectual humility a virtue?
Again, don't have much of a stake in the dude, but when you claim "he's a phony", you sound like someone who is intellectually sloppy. When you fall to the mat to defend it, you sound worse.
BTW, sexual attraction is a major part of romantic relationships. If not, why not just be friends? Is this new info to you?
Sure sounds like you do, but I've made my point. Point is, no one knows for sure. We can only speculate.
the guy is awesome
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
Tebow never had a big sports contract, and his net worth is estimated at $4M. His prime earning days are behind him, and he just blew a quarter of his net worth on the engagement, and he still has a wedding to pay for! Not smart!
Have to wonder how much of the "over the top" approach was geared toward marketing.
I know that sounds cynical, and I AM a Tebow fan, generally. But for a guy who's an OK baseball player and who bounced out of the NFL, and who is middle-of-the-road at best as a commentator?
Eh. Maybe I can't escape my cynical side, after all.
My hunch is that those who have a problem with him would not have a problem with him were he a devout follower of another religion.
Kind of like how all "right-thinking" people were supposed to boycott Chick-Fil-A a few years back.
the guy is awesome
But he's a devout Christian, and to a certain segment of people that is either suspicious, at best, or unforgivable, at worst.
My comment about the doctor not telling a friend of a deadly disease was obviously a metaphor. And I thought I made it clear that it was from someone like Tim Tebow’s perspective, i.e., that’s how he thinks regardless of how someone like you feels.
I understand you don’t like the metaphor, but you probably wouldn’t like any metaphor I try. But I’ll try anyway, think of it (again from a Christian’s perspective), for someone like Tebow to not speak of the Gospel is akin to not telling people of a great free gift they could have. And this great free gift is available to EVERYONE.
When I refer to Tebow as brave, I mean that he could easily practice his faith in private and not set himself up for so much hate and ridicule. Most Christians prefer to avoid being ridiculed, called stupid, believers in an imaginary friend in the sky, etc. But Christians who read the Bible know that we’re supposed to spread “the good news” (“Gospel” in Greek).
To Christians, the good news is that we (our souls) can have eternal life in heaven through faith in Jesus. The Bible says those who don’t accept this free gift will have eternal separation from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light.. Basically, God won’t force those who never accepted Him to spend eternity with Him.
That probably sounds like crap to you and it’s of course your prerogative to believe whatever you want. My wife and I have multiple degrees between us, including Molecular Biology and Chemical Engineering and it’s clear to us (and most Christians) that believing in God and science is not remotely mutually exclusive.
In fact for many, including the Director of the Human Genome project (who has an MD and PhD in Genetics), the more he looked at human DNA, the more he felt it couldn’t have happened randomly or by accident. He was an atheist for about half his life, but became a Christian and someone like Tim Tebow sowed the first seeds for his belief.
Probably nothing I say is going to change your mind, so have a nice day.
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
In fact, it reinforces the delusion that somehow spreading the "Good News" has a benefit. That it leads to a certain outcome. That it leads a person to eternal grace instead of damnation.
It is probably one of the biggest dividers of Planet Earth that we have, so I do not find it either positive nor compelling.
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In comment 14257286 antdog24 said:
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seems like a decent human being. Need more of those around.
True, but let's be honest: Tebow is a bit of a phony
I couldn't disagree more. I actually think that he is one of the few that is NOT phony. Seems like a genuinely decent person. Good for him.
Nothing more real than staging your engagement for an exclusive reveal in People Magazine.
I would've been hitting like the fist of an angry God left and right. I get depressed thinking about it, how I'll never be in that position (so to speak)
Nothing more real than staging your engagement for an exclusive reveal in People Magazine.
Maybe they kicked in a few bucks towards the ring. It's not like he's getting commercials hawking credit cards to help him pay the bills.
And she is really good looking. God for them then make a pretty pair.
Brother!
Being a devout anything is at minimal controversial if you use that devoteness to influence other people.
If he's a great person, let's call him that. Just like anyone else who is a great human. But when we have to use the additional modifier that he's a "great Christian" that puts it over the top.
It's like being christian has some innate advantage, when really it doesn't.
You know, for someone who comes off as a douche to me often on here I usually agree w your posts.
Well said
What's the worst if Tim and I are wrong? I know I've helped a lot of people I would not have, if not for my beliefs (my wife and I have given a crapload of money to charity (including sponsoring families in South America and we lead a local chapter of a charity that has sent Christmas gifts to tens of thousands of kids around the world, who otherwise probably wouldn't have received anything).
Those are things I can guarantee you we wouldn't be doing without our beliefs. Yeah, we would give token amounts to charity, but not to the extent that it keeps us from having a nicer 2nd car or going on vacations (like last year).
I'm sure you can think of bad examples of Christians who are judgmental, but they don't seem to have exclusive rights in judging others; the judgement just comes from a different perspective.
Have a nice night.
This topic isn't about hate ot love. It is about common decency.
There is literally no reason for anyone to push their belief system on anyone else. None.
Like I said above, salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise. A belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower. The only one who benefits in a greater number capacity are those with an expected revenue flow.
My beliefs are my beliefs. I could give a rat's ass if you choose to accept them or not. I'm also a Christian, but that really isn't the point. Whether I believe in Christ as a supreme being or I believe in Joe down the street is immaterial.
What is material is that people have the onus on themselves to be the best they can be. To do the right things. To help their fellow man. That has nothing to do with Christ or Joe. It has to do with us.
Could't agree more. (although I like and appreciate the work he does, I'll never be a big fan. Do the work and keep your opinions regarding religion to yourself!)
I agree that "salvation isn't a group in numbers exercise." And that "a belief system doesn't have any stronger pull with 1,000,000 followers than a system with 1 follower". That is more of a belief of a certain "religion of peace".
I also agree that there have been too many opportunists who have gotten rich off their "ministries". I don't think Tebow is one of them. I happen to think he's one of the good guys.
Salvation is a very individual and personal thing, but i guess where you and I disagree is that there are tens of millions who don't know about it. They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help.
Unfortunately, I believe the Catholic Church has done more harm than good for X number of centuries now. I know so many people, including good friends, who have turned away from God and the one common denominator is that they grew up Catholic.
People have to know that they shouldn't reject Jesus because of the sins of man-made organizations like the Catholic Church or Westboro Baptist.
Good sincere Christians like I think Tebow is, can help people see past the other BS. No one is forcing anyone to believe anything, at least not when it comes to Christianity.
But if someone like Tebow isn't telling people about the free gift of salvation, many will never know it's available or that maybe it's a good thing to want.