"They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help."
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out. Can we suspend the philosophizing, the pearl clutching, and the arguing and chew on this nugget for a bit: we are not allowed to discuss what goes on in prison unless we have been there. Get a load of Cool Hand Luke over here...
first of all, it's not his team and I'm sure Tim would be the first to tell you that. For Christians like Tebow, Jesus said there is ONE way to God. ONE way to heaven. Jesus is THE way.
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
RE: it's NOT about getting more people on his team Â
first of all, it's not his team and I'm sure Tim would be the first to tell you that. For Christians like Tebow, Jesus said there is ONE way to God. ONE way to heaven. Jesus is THE way.
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
You keep mentioning this "free gift of eternal life". What if you don't believe in it? Why does someone have to keep hearing about this? Does an atheist that leads a good, honorable life get into heaven or do you have to be in the club?
And, the bible was written and revised (countless times) for hundreds of years after Jesus died. Please don't make it out to be a factually correct historic document. There wasn't a journalist there writing down things that Jesus allegedly said.
I'm really not here to argue. I consider myself very non-confrontational. I generally try to stay away from it... but here I am.
You say you're a Christian (and who am I to question anyone), but that would normally indicate that you believe in heaven and hell (because the Bible teaches about both)... And yet you don't seem to care about how many people... end up eternally separated from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light (that's what I think hell is).
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
To have any of those viewpoints is your prerogative, but I would question if you really follow the teachings of Christ.
To not follow His teachings is also your prerogative; my main point throughout this thread is that I believe people like Tebow actually care about how many people hear "the good news". To not care, is basically saying F*k 'em.
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
Now if I were to voluntarily attend an event (say like a prison ministry as mentioned above, and I'm assuming inmates aren't being forced to attend) with a pretty clear purpose of sharing beliefs, I wouldn't be all too surprised someone is sharing their beliefs.
I tend to find someone sharing their religious faith casually in the media or an interview as benign as someone endorsing any other cause. If George Clooney casually mentions a humanitarian crisis, or Ashley Judge mentions a woman's workplace rights issue, or if Kyrie Irving mentions the Earth being flat, I feel the same level of assailed as when Tim Tebow wants to share his faith -- not assailed at all.
"They don't know about Jesus for whatever reason and that's where people like Tebow help."
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
I worked with someone that tried to convert people. That may be worded too strongly as she wasn't pushy about it, but if it came up in convo and she would recommend coming to her church. One day I asked her why she seems interested in people becoming christians (for the record I am, but I have not practiced in many moons). She said it's because she believes the only path to heaven is to believe in Jesus and she wanted people she cared about to be there. So at least in her case, it wasn't about getting someone on her team. She wanted them to be eternally happy.
I wouldn't like people pushing their religion on me, but despite having numerous friends over the years that are very devoted to their faith no one has pushed it on me. It's something I hear about, but have never really encountered even from Teboweseque people in my life. As for Tebow, I think he's genuinely a good guy. He promotes his faith on field and i can see how that annoys some, but I don't think it'd be much of an issue of the media didn't incessantly bring it up like they have.
so maybe I have missed it but I don't recall him ever really pushing his faith on people. If he goes somewhere, or some event where he is scheduled to talk about his faith and people show up to hear, then so what? It's a free country and there is nothing wrong with that.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
so maybe I have missed it but I don't recall him ever really pushing his faith on people. If he goes somewhere, or some event where he is scheduled to talk about his faith and people show up to hear, then so what? It's a free country and there is nothing wrong with that.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
Now that I can respect. I don;t want to hear that you know something that "non-believers" don't and you're somehow obligated to share that with them (us). I have a set of beliefs that I have no need to share with you, whatever works for you is the rule I go by when it comes to religion.
Steve -- in my experience there are very, very few brow beatings, and virtually none that come out of nowhere like a surprise attack.
I'm genuinely curious what other's experiences are.
I tend not to associate with people who are pushy with their beliefs in general.
I've had the great pleasure in life of knowing some real whacky people, who believe in some stuff that's pretty weird to me. It's great to better understand people and learn what makes them tick.
If somebody is real jerk or believes in something that offends my sensibilities I like knowing that so I can run, but I can probably count them on one hand.
I guess I should accept I'm in a pretty slim minority. I'm not naive enough to think there aren't people out there pushing their beliefs. But really aside from the whackadoos on a bullhorn now again in front of Yankee Stadium, not something I encounter much if ever.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
I’m sorry but, this is just an idiotic argument.
You’re literally conflating people pushing religious values on people to football rooting interests. Makes zero sense.
He has never forced his beliefs on anyone on BBI. He has indeed professed them on here but never has he condemned nor judge any that don't believe the same.
He carries himself with respect for others and listens to their counterpoint.
Steve and I have different beliefs in many aspects but I have always enjoyed my conversations with him.
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
I suspect you are greatly misunderstanding how a prison ministry works and who is on attendance.
Teboew isn't setting up a booth in the cafeteria and sneak attacking unsuspecting prisoners with a bullhorn while they eat.
it could be because of my location, but I run into religious solicitation quite a lot:
Quote:
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christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
Dr. D:
Quote:
You say you're a Christian (and who am I to question anyone), but that would normally indicate that you believe in heaven and hell (because the Bible teaches about both)... And yet you don't seem to care about how many people... end up eternally separated from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light (that's what I think hell is).
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
I believe in Christ. That is the definition of a Christian. I'm not saying Fuck 'Em to those who don't believe. I'm saying that I don't care who believes. Just because I believe doesn't mean that Christ exists, so who the hell am I to tell people who they should believe in?
My minor from college is in Religion. In that coursework, I learned a shitload of information about other faiths. And I'm at peace with the idea that as humans, we are free to believe in what we choose to. Again - if God exists, does it matter if he has a singular follower or billions? It is a serious question.
I really think religion should be there to give an individual direction to be a good Human being. That's the best we can accomplish on this planet. But there are countless times in history where the guise of religion is used to govern, murder, rob and brainwash people. All in the supposed effort for everyone to believe the same thing. In that vein, saying "Fuck 'Em" is the best avenue.
By the way, I know that steve is a religious person and I've always tried to be sensitive to his beliefs because he seems like a very good person too. I do not mock religious beliefs, I simply wish they would remain personal
it could be because of my location, but I run into religious solicitation quite a lot:
Quote:
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christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
One of the few times I've been solicited, I'm scurrying through the BART station in San Francisco, and it's one of these stations you can enter a mall through so it's packed.
This kick the doors down hot girl comes right to my face and says, "Are you Christian?" and I'm thinking she knows me, and thinking how did I forget a girl like you. My girlfriend at the time is equal parts not amused and laughing at me.
Gotta be one of the few times in this world proselytizing was tragically misinterpreted as a former hook-up.
This thread now reminded me of 3 incidents in my life Â
One, in college in Albany, on campus during Sukkot there were Hassidic Jewish men out of a mobile unit asking if you were Jewish. I never saw a Hassidic Jew any other time of the year in Alabany and to this sect of Hassidism, I am not even seen as Newish the rest of the year.
Two, I remember being followed fod 2 blocks after getting off the train near home by a Jew for Jesus. Guy, wouldn't leave me alone.
Three, in my first job out of college on Christmas Eve day, a co-worker asked me what I was doing that evening. I said I was waiting to hear from my friends; maybe a bar or club or movie. She asked why I wasn't doing something else like family, mass, etc. I reminded her I'm Jewish, which she knew. Her response was, "but it's Christmas." I reminded her again I was Jewish. Then she started asking me why I didn't want to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I re.inded her avain I was Jewish and then tried to end the conversation. It was truly odd.
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
And it causes a shitload of conflict in the World today.
If you were to ask me what the biggest issue is in society today and I'd probably reply that it has to do with the misuse of religion.
There is literally no reasonable justification for trying to get another person to believe in what you do regarding God or the afterlife.
And it causes a shitload of conflict in the World today.
If you were to ask me what the biggest issue is in society today and I'd probably reply that it has to do with the misuse of religion.
There is literally no reasonable justification for trying to get another person to believe in what you do regarding God or the afterlife.
I couldn't agree more.
It's been monetized, weaponized, and used to hypnotize.
I admire people who use it wisely and quietly.
Quote:
Telling someone about faith is nothing like medical advice.
It isn't brave. It isn't a gift.
it is an intrusion. And yet there are people like you who think it is perfectly acceptable to do it.
Belief systems aren't dependent on how many people follow them.
If people feel obligated to help others, do it with actions. Do it with deeds. Telling others what will lead to salvation, even if it is done with good intentions, is just pushing an agenda.
Bravo FMiC
And to others, don't talk about what goes on in Prisons unless you've been in one, please.
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Time out. Can we suspend the philosophizing, the pearl clutching, and the arguing and chew on this nugget for a bit: we are not allowed to discuss what goes on in prison unless we have been there. Get a load of Cool Hand Luke over here...
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
Now, I'm not going to say that a Jew who faithfully obeys the 10 Commandments or a really good person somewhere in the 3rd world who never heard of Jesus isn't going to make it. None of this is for me to decide. I'm just saying what is said in the New Testament (and it does basically say that it won't be held against those who have never heard the gospel).
I know that's very controversial and you can disagree all you want, but that's what the Bible says and contrary to what many skeptics say, there's good evidence (historical, archeological) that the New Testament was written by a combination of eye/ear witnesses to the teachings and life of Jesus (John, Matthew, Peter (his disciples), James (his one time skeptical "brother"), Paul (the one time nemesis of his followers) and others who were companions of eye witnesses (Luke, Mark).
So, to people like Tebow, they're letting people know about this free gift of eternal life for their soul in heaven that can't be gotten, at least not nearly as easily elsewhere. It's not about getting more people on his team, as if he's getting a commission or points.
You keep mentioning this "free gift of eternal life". What if you don't believe in it? Why does someone have to keep hearing about this? Does an atheist that leads a good, honorable life get into heaven or do you have to be in the club?
And, the bible was written and revised (countless times) for hundreds of years after Jesus died. Please don't make it out to be a factually correct historic document. There wasn't a journalist there writing down things that Jesus allegedly said.
You say you're a Christian (and who am I to question anyone), but that would normally indicate that you believe in heaven and hell (because the Bible teaches about both)... And yet you don't seem to care about how many people... end up eternally separated from God and everything that is Godly, i.e., love, beauty, light (that's what I think hell is).
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
To have any of those viewpoints is your prerogative, but I would question if you really follow the teachings of Christ.
To not follow His teachings is also your prerogative; my main point throughout this thread is that I believe people like Tebow actually care about how many people hear "the good news". To not care, is basically saying F*k 'em.
Now if I were to voluntarily attend an event (say like a prison ministry as mentioned above, and I'm assuming inmates aren't being forced to attend) with a pretty clear purpose of sharing beliefs, I wouldn't be all too surprised someone is sharing their beliefs.
I tend to find someone sharing their religious faith casually in the media or an interview as benign as someone endorsing any other cause. If George Clooney casually mentions a humanitarian crisis, or Ashley Judge mentions a woman's workplace rights issue, or if Kyrie Irving mentions the Earth being flat, I feel the same level of assailed as when Tim Tebow wants to share his faith -- not assailed at all.
"help" what? To get more people on your team? If people are searching for some kind of spiritual enlightenment, it's not hard to find. People need to keep their religion to themselves, I for one don't want to hear about it.
I worked with someone that tried to convert people. That may be worded too strongly as she wasn't pushy about it, but if it came up in convo and she would recommend coming to her church. One day I asked her why she seems interested in people becoming christians (for the record I am, but I have not practiced in many moons). She said it's because she believes the only path to heaven is to believe in Jesus and she wanted people she cared about to be there. So at least in her case, it wasn't about getting someone on her team. She wanted them to be eternally happy.
I wouldn't like people pushing their religion on me, but despite having numerous friends over the years that are very devoted to their faith no one has pushed it on me. It's something I hear about, but have never really encountered even from Teboweseque people in my life. As for Tebow, I think he's genuinely a good guy. He promotes his faith on field and i can see how that annoys some, but I don't think it'd be much of an issue of the media didn't incessantly bring it up like they have.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
I'm a Christian but I don't really care for it when people harass others about their beliefs or attempt to push their faith on strangers. And lets face it you can't force or push anyone into a belief in God. Kind of misses the entire point.
This is all entirely personal but for myself this is my take. I try to live my life as faithful as I can and really that's not always the easiest thing to do so I think I should be concentrating on my own life, and my own walk with God, rather than be worrying about how others are living their lives. That's none of my business. And if along the way someone is curious about it, or sees something in my life that makes them wonder about it and asks me about my faith I will share it with them but I'm not comfortable pushing my beliefs on anyone.
Basically if it comes up in conversation I am not ashamed of my faith and will discuss it, but I don't see the benefit in trying to brow beat others about what I believe.
Now that I can respect. I don;t want to hear that you know something that "non-believers" don't and you're somehow obligated to share that with them (us). I have a set of beliefs that I have no need to share with you, whatever works for you is the rule I go by when it comes to religion.
I'm genuinely curious what other's experiences are.
I tend not to associate with people who are pushy with their beliefs in general.
I've had the great pleasure in life of knowing some real whacky people, who believe in some stuff that's pretty weird to me. It's great to better understand people and learn what makes them tick.
If somebody is real jerk or believes in something that offends my sensibilities I like knowing that so I can run, but I can probably count them on one hand.
I guess I should accept I'm in a pretty slim minority. I'm not naive enough to think there aren't people out there pushing their beliefs. But really aside from the whackadoos on a bullhorn now again in front of Yankee Stadium, not something I encounter much if ever.
Quote:
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith?
Because they're passionate about it. Why do people feel they need to share their politics? Why do people feel they need to share their football preferences?
I’m sorry but, this is just an idiotic argument.
You’re literally conflating people pushing religious values on people to football rooting interests. Makes zero sense.
Ridiculous.
He carries himself with respect for others and listens to their counterpoint.
Steve and I have different beliefs in many aspects but I have always enjoyed my conversations with him.
Quote:
That’s what I don’t get. Why do people feel they need or have to share their faith? Look at the asshole who got killed for doing just that this year. He thought an island inhabited by a tribe who is isolated from the world just needed Jesus so much, he broke the law, trespassed, and was then killed by said tribe.
No one needs or has to hear any of that bullshit. You want to celebrate your faith? Fine, I have no problem with that. Just don’t push it on me or act like you have some kind of moral high ground because, it’s been proven time and again, “Christians” certainly don’t.
There's a pretty big difference between a dude sneaking onto a protected island and Tebow's church being invited to speak at the prison, presumably to a group of guys who are voluntarily present.
I'm not particularly interested in hearing what most people think about much, and it's incredibly tough to not. Are you really getting bombarded by people's views?
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
The difference between the asshole sneaking onto an island and trying to push jesus onto people and Tebow trying to push jesus onto people is, Tebow had cameras on him and prison security.
I suspect you are greatly misunderstanding how a prison ministry works and who is on attendance.
Teboew isn't setting up a booth in the cafeteria and sneak attacking unsuspecting prisoners with a bullhorn while they eat.
christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
Dr. D:
No offense, but the attitude is almost like - F*k 'em… or else a) you really don't believe in heaven and hell or b) you think everybody except guys like Hitler get into heaven or I guess c) people can maybe find out about it some other less potentially offensive way.
I believe in Christ. That is the definition of a Christian. I'm not saying Fuck 'Em to those who don't believe. I'm saying that I don't care who believes. Just because I believe doesn't mean that Christ exists, so who the hell am I to tell people who they should believe in?
My minor from college is in Religion. In that coursework, I learned a shitload of information about other faiths. And I'm at peace with the idea that as humans, we are free to believe in what we choose to. Again - if God exists, does it matter if he has a singular follower or billions? It is a serious question.
I really think religion should be there to give an individual direction to be a good Human being. That's the best we can accomplish on this planet. But there are countless times in history where the guise of religion is used to govern, murder, rob and brainwash people. All in the supposed effort for everyone to believe the same thing. In that vein, saying "Fuck 'Em" is the best avenue.
By the way, I know that steve is a religious person and I've always tried to be sensitive to his beliefs because he seems like a very good person too. I do not mock religious beliefs, I simply wish they would remain personal
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christian : 1/11/2019 11:33 pm : link : reply
Maybe I'm sheltered in a reverse kind of way that I've lived in a major metro area my entire adult life, and along with that the general stay out of each other's way that is necessary to survive, but I don't commonly run into anyone who's trying to sell me on what they believe. Is this really an infringing problem for folks in contemporary America?
It is even timely. I was at the grocery store this morning and a kind old woman was standing next to me waiting for deli meat to be cut. She turns to me and asks where I attend church. I told her and she told me that she was sorry that our old sanctuary had recently had a fire. Then she went on to say that she's glad I have Jesus Christ in my life. Very innocuous, but to me an odd conversation to have with a person I do not know.
But more frequently, you get an actual solicitation. A stranger will ask if you've accepted Jesus Christ as your savior. Frequently, the first topic from a stranger is to ask where you worship. Now, it could just be a way to break the ice, but I can't say that I have ever led a conversation off asking about religion. To me, it is like going up to somebody and asking what their political affiliation is and then make a pitch to convert them.
One of the few times I've been solicited, I'm scurrying through the BART station in San Francisco, and it's one of these stations you can enter a mall through so it's packed.
This kick the doors down hot girl comes right to my face and says, "Are you Christian?" and I'm thinking she knows me, and thinking how did I forget a girl like you. My girlfriend at the time is equal parts not amused and laughing at me.
Gotta be one of the few times in this world proselytizing was tragically misinterpreted as a former hook-up.
Two, I remember being followed fod 2 blocks after getting off the train near home by a Jew for Jesus. Guy, wouldn't leave me alone.
Three, in my first job out of college on Christmas Eve day, a co-worker asked me what I was doing that evening. I said I was waiting to hear from my friends; maybe a bar or club or movie. She asked why I wasn't doing something else like family, mass, etc. I reminded her I'm Jewish, which she knew. Her response was, "but it's Christmas." I reminded her again I was Jewish. Then she started asking me why I didn't want to celebrate the birth of Jesus. I re.inded her avain I was Jewish and then tried to end the conversation. It was truly odd.