Lowrie in 2014. He's next three years were pretty brutal. Isnt it those years we'd have been acquiring him for? The years he posted a wRC+ of 95, 95, and 76? That's all I meant. I'd surely take this version who's broken out and become an all-star over the last couple of years.
You'd have to be a complete asshole to not like this move. lol
The move is ok...
But Harper or Machado would be better. That's the whole point.
If you start with the precondition that the Mets can not sign Machado or Harper, then their off-season had been pretty good.
If you don't start with that ridiculous precondition, the off-season has been completely half assed and is being overrated.
That's the point KO is making...
It also is a little weird that BVW is bringing in former clients who are at the very end of their careers.
That's fine. There is a contingent of fans that would have never been happy with anything unless we signed Harper or Machado. I get it. But at least admit it acknowledge that nothing barring that would have ever made you happy. There are 29 other teams and everyone wants those two players. They are going to cost 300+ million. It was always a long shot even if money was bottomless.
As for Lowrie, if you don't like this move than you shouldn't have liked Pollock or Marwin Gonzalez or any other addition because he's in that "tier" and just as good.
1) I'm definitely part of that contingent, with one qualificiation: I'm more mad about them not even TRYING to sign Harper/Machado. If they had legitimate, genuine competitive offers on the table and lost, can't fault them.
2) I wanted no part of Pollock, Marwin, or any other 2nd tier addition if it wasn't in addition to Harper/Machado.
This off-season has been fine. Nothing to get excited about. They could be a pretty good team.
..but there is no doubt in my mind that if they expanded the payroll, they would be a better team than they are now...
95 wRC+, 1.7 fWAR season. I was referring to what he did in 2014. Holy overreaction. Lowrie has clearly evolved in to a much better hitter over the last couple of seasons than he was earlier in his year.
5 years ago was his best season prior to the last two where he had a 120 wRC+ and a 3.4 fWAR.
Right but even so 5 years ago he'd have been heading int0 2014 (we are heading into to 2019), so he wouldnt have been good the year we had him.
Moving on off of that. Clearly a huge miscommunication. Still thing Olberman is a clown. lol
You'd have to be a complete asshole to not like this move. lol
The move is ok...
But Harper or Machado would be better. That's the whole point.
If you start with the precondition that the Mets can not sign Machado or Harper, then their off-season had been pretty good.
If you don't start with that ridiculous precondition, the off-season has been completely half assed and is being overrated.
That's the point KO is making...
It also is a little weird that BVW is bringing in former clients who are at the very end of their careers.
That's fine. There is a contingent of fans that would have never been happy with anything unless we signed Harper or Machado. I get it. But at least admit it acknowledge that nothing barring that would have ever made you happy. There are 29 other teams and everyone wants those two players. They are going to cost 300+ million. It was always a long shot even if money was bottomless.
As for Lowrie, if you don't like this move than you shouldn't have liked Pollock or Marwin Gonzalez or any other addition because he's in that "tier" and just as good.
1) I'm definitely part of that contingent, with one qualificiation: I'm more mad about them not even TRYING to sign Harper/Machado. If they had legitimate, genuine competitive offers on the table and lost, can't fault them.
2) I wanted no part of Pollock, Marwin, or any other 2nd tier addition if it wasn't in addition to Harper/Machado.
This off-season has been fine. Nothing to get excited about. They could be a pretty good team.
..but there is no doubt in my mind that if they expanded the payroll, they would be a better team than they are now...
Regardless on whether or not there were any formal sit downs or not, I am 100% positive Brody has spoken to Boras this offseason. Im sure he is well aware of the costs involved in Harper. He probably felt that money could have been better invested in 5-6 players than 1. Just a guess.
RE: Not to keep it going but lets assume we did acquire Â
Lowrie in 2014. He's next three years were pretty brutal. Isnt it those years we'd have been acquiring him for? The years he posted a wRC+ of 95, 95, and 76? That's all I meant. I'd surely take this version who's broken out and become an all-star over the last couple of years.
In 2014 he got a 1 year / 5m deal with Oakland and was worth 1.7fwar.
2015-2017 he was on a 3 year / 23m deal (4th year option brought it to 29m total) he signed with Houston. Over those 4 years he posted 1.1 fwar, -.7 fwar, and then the last 2 years that totaled almost 9fwar.
So both of his FA deals paid off pretty well. Let's hope this one follows suit.
Lowrie in 2014. He's next three years were pretty brutal. Isnt it those years we'd have been acquiring him for? The years he posted a wRC+ of 95, 95, and 76? That's all I meant. I'd surely take this version who's broken out and become an all-star over the last couple of years.
In 2014 he got a 1 year / 5m deal with Oakland and was worth 1.7fwar.
2015-2017 he was on a 3 year / 23m deal (4th year option brought it to 29m total) he signed with Houston. Over those 4 years he posted 1.1 fwar, -.7 fwar, and then the last 2 years that totaled almost 9fwar.
So both of his FA deals paid off pretty well. Let's hope this one follows suit.
Sure. Im just saying I want this version that broke out now. Not the guy that was heading into 2014. He was ok when he was younger but a lot of that was likely tied to the position he played and defense. He wasn't make all star games before recently. I know he's older, but he's another guy coming off a damn near elite season and he can hit. I stand by this being yet another solid player added of the "MGone, Pollock, ilk. No, its not Harper or Machado but its ok to like adding quality to players to the team IMO in spite of those two.
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
Hey, we wont know until we know... Harper would be amazing.. But I trust Cotts numbers and they got us around 158 million. Give me Ottavino for around 10 and that pushes us to almost 170. Ill be very satisfied with that.
but the point is even as a clown the Mets would be a better team today and almost as importantly in the foreseeable future with Manny Machado than Cano and Lowrie.
Especially if Manny played 3B and it kept McNeil in the lineup at 2B.
Losing Swarzak and Bruce could have happened any number of ways but didn't have to be part of the Cano/Diaz trade.
It's a fair point, especially when you consider the age of Cano and Lowrie vs Machado.
Not sure why two things can't be true:
Olbermann is an asshole
Olbermann is right about this
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
Hey, we wont know until we know... Harper would be amazing.. But I trust Cotts numbers and they got us around 158 million. Give me Ottavino for around 10 and that pushes us to almost 170. Ill be very satisfied with that.
That makes 1 of us ;)
I won't be satisfied until we operate like it's 2004/5 again and are a major player in every big time free agent or trade candidate that hits the market.... And if it means paying luxury tax then so be it.. the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Tigers, Nationals, and Angels have all done it at some point...
And you know what, we don't need to be spending that much every year... But when the team is on the brink, when they are just a couple pieces away, that's the time to stretch and go for it.
The "Mets are going for it", "Mets are in win-now mode" bullshit pisses me off... No they aren't. They are in a "let's put the best team on the field we can without breaking the bank" mode, and they have been that way for years.
but the point is even as a clown the Mets would be a better team today and almost as importantly in the foreseeable future with Manny Machado than Cano and Lowrie.
Especially if Manny played 3B and it kept McNeil in the lineup at 2B.
Losing Swarzak and Bruce could have happened any number of ways but didn't have to be part of the Cano/Diaz trade.
It's a fair point, especially when you consider the age of Cano and Lowrie vs Machado.
Not sure why two things can't be true:
Olbermann is an asshole
Olbermann is right about this
Yes but part of the Cano deal was that they had to take back Bruce/Swarzak (and 20 million) in order to keep the payroll low TO sign Ramos and Lowrie. That's why is comment makes no sense in my mind. He's leaving out important details. If Bruce and Swarzak are still here and we sign Machado instead. Our payroll is much higher now. We also likely had to go out and sign a closer on top of Familia right? He's just shooting off and not thinking anything through.
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
Hey, we wont know until we know... Harper would be amazing.. But I trust Cotts numbers and they got us around 158 million. Give me Ottavino for around 10 and that pushes us to almost 170. Ill be very satisfied with that.
That makes 1 of us ;)
I won't be satisfied until we operate like it's 2004/5 again and are a major player in every big time free agent or trade candidate that hits the market.... And if it means paying luxury tax then so be it.. the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Tigers, Nationals, and Angels have all done it at some point...
And you know what, we don't need to be spending that much every year... But when the team is on the brink, when they are just a couple pieces away, that's the time to stretch and go for it.
The "Mets are going for it", "Mets are in win-now mode" bullshit pisses me off... No they aren't. They are in a "let's put the best team on the field we can without breaking the bank" mode, and they have been that way for years.
Remember that we went through a long rebuild for a reason and that many of our top players arent making a lot of money yet. Thats a big part of it. Syndergaard, deGrom, Wheeler, Nimmo, Conforto, etc. are going to cost a fortune when they are free agents. If we had signed them all to big deals early and the roster was the same but our payroll was 220 million would you be happy then? Just be happy we have a bunch of cost controllable talent in starting roles. That's what everyone wants! I want Machado and Harper too but so does everyone.
I also read recently that the Mets actually don't bring in what people think they do. Blame it on the Wilpons but the SNY deal actually sucks. They only get 50% of the profits from SNY. I think if you count total operational revenue the Mets came in around 18th or something like that. Ill try to dig it up.
Machado is the best free agent fit to come available at a position of need for the Mets in ages. Maybe since Beltran. And he won't even cost a draft pick.
It's practically a no-brainer. Especially with a new GM looking to make a splash.
It is reasonable to think the Mets could have signed Machado and also unloaded Bruce and Swarzak separately and the payroll wouldn't be much different.
So while I like Lowrie and think, as I mentioned, he adds an additional element to the team and depth, but he doesn't cone without risk.
Machado is the best free agent fit to come available at a position of need for the Mets in ages. Maybe since Beltran. And he won't even cost a draft pick.
It's practically a no-brainer. Especially with a new GM looking to make a splash.
It is reasonable to think the Mets could have signed Machado and also unloaded Bruce and Swarzak separately and the payroll wouldn't be much different.
So while I like Lowrie and think, as I mentioned, he adds an additional element to the team and depth, but he doesn't cone without risk.
And he's not a plan A (for me).
And I don't see anything wrong with that. That's absolutely fine. Harper or Machado would have been my A+ offseason also, especially if we could have slid in more on top of it. But I think both were long shots and it's still ok to like everything else we've done instead. We've now added 5 recent all-stars at positions of needs and strengthened our bench and AAA depth. If you told me you can't have Harper or Machado but Ill give you anything else you want, I probably would have come up with something similar to what we've done to be honest. Im very pleased and I STILL think we add another arm.
Can we be cool again now? Im sorry about the shit I said to you a few weeks ago. Its going to be a long season if we are sniping at each other all year.
On track for HOF careers that they would have to pay down the road the Mets from adding Beltran, Pedro, Delgado, etc...
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Is what the Mets did then that much different than what we've done now? Beltran was young and in his prime but Delgado, Wagner, Glavine, and Pedro were good players at the end of their careers, weren't they? Isnt Diaz young and elite and just entering his prime? Lowrie, Familia, Cano, and Ramos are older but all are still playing at a high level, similar to then. I also think our homegrown base far outweighs the 2006-2008 years. This is the best foundation of talent since the mid 80s. It still might not be enough but damnit this team should be fun to watch with relative health IMO.
I know it's a broken record, but Machado or Harper (Machado more for me) shouldn't have been long-shots. They should have been speculated to the Mets all along, it makes so much sense.
I like the off-season for 2019.
Long-term not so sure.
Hinges on how Cano ages and if Diaz maintains/improves.
and that doesn't even consider how Kelenic and Dunn pan out.
If Kelenic becomes Trout it could make this off-season franchise altering. That risk is worth taking if it leads to Mets WS, but otherwise it will be looked at negatively.
On track for HOF careers that they would have to pay down the road the Mets from adding Beltran, Pedro, Delgado, etc...
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Is what the Mets did then that much different than what we've done now? Beltran was young and in his prime but Delgado, Wagner, Glavine, and Pedro were good players at the end of their careers, weren't they? Isnt Diaz young and elite and just entering his prime? Lowrie, Familia, Cano, and Ramos are older but all are still playing at a high level, similar to then. I also think our homegrown base far outweighs the 2006-2008 years. This is the best foundation of talent since the mid 80s. It still might not be enough but damnit this team should be fun to watch with relative health IMO.
Yes. They added Carlos Beltran..which was akin to adding Machado or Harper.
That's exactly the difference. Exactly it.
Floyd, Nady, Valentin, LoDuca.. I can see the parallels to today...
But we don't have any position player as good as Beltran, Wright, or Reyes from those teams. Adding Harper or Machado would do that..
On track for HOF careers that they would have to pay down the road the Mets from adding Beltran, Pedro, Delgado, etc...
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Is what the Mets did then that much different than what we've done now? Beltran was young and in his prime but Delgado, Wagner, Glavine, and Pedro were good players at the end of their careers, weren't they? Isnt Diaz young and elite and just entering his prime? Lowrie, Familia, Cano, and Ramos are older but all are still playing at a high level, similar to then. I also think our homegrown base far outweighs the 2006-2008 years. This is the best foundation of talent since the mid 80s. It still might not be enough but damnit this team should be fun to watch with relative health IMO.
Yes. They added Carlos Beltran..which was akin to adding Machado or Harper.
That's exactly the difference. Exactly it.
Floyd, Nady, Valentin, LoDuca.. I can see the parallels to today...
But we don't have any position player as good as Beltran, Wright, or Reyes from those teams. Adding Harper or Machado would do that..
Yeah Beltran was a huge player and get but I still think he was a tier lower than when we almost went after Griffey and Arod (which are more like Machado/Harper today) Those were the mega deals of that day.
Like I said, going out and getting a Diaz is similar to also getting a younger elite talent in his prime, not just a bunch of older talent. Ill take this roster over the 2006-2008 ones actually. The only thing hurting this team right now is a bit of uncertainty with how well or how far some of our younger hitters go but that's not a bad thing. These arent scrubs. These are talented young hitters. The lineup looks deep and versatile now.
and get another pitcher. We really need more depth there. My initial reaction was concern with blocking McNeil and not spending the money on pitching, but after more thought, Lowrie is a REALLY underrated player and I'm glad he's in the blue and orange.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
But I do think we gambled on the wrong bat. I wanted Cespedes as much as the next guy but if he's not on the team right now, I am convinced we ARE in on Harper/Machado. Cespedes is killing us right now.
Facts are facts and we are paying a guy 30 million AAV and he might be back mid season. Let's assume the Mets think he is coming back around then. How is Harper even fitting with Nimmo, Conforto, and everyone else on this roster? Maybe you should say "Oh well, make it work, THIS IS NY" but a team running a 160 million dollar payroll that has extensions they have to work out in the future to keep their pitching likely isnt thinking that way.
Just a guess.
This offseason will very interesting to look at with hindsight Â
I think there's legitimate argument on both sides.
Right now, I think it's an interesting bet as to whether or not Cano + Lowrie will outproduce Machado over the next couple years. I think the odds are literally 50-50. So is it a better investment to go after Machado and roll the dice long term for a guy who has a lot of value in his defense which could start declining or short term on older players who are still performing? Like I said, I think there's a legitimate argument both ways.
Where I think there's no argument is to be going for it but to be haphazard not making the necessary short term signings for depth in the BP. It's like putting a new roof on a house but not sealing it. Once you've done the heavy lifting, paid for the new roof, and labor to install, why skimp on finishing the job with the cheapest part?
and get another pitcher. We really need more depth there. My initial reaction was concern with blocking McNeil and not spending the money on pitching, but after more thought, Lowrie is a REALLY underrated player and I'm glad he's in the blue and orange.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Sign Derek Holland for 2 million to compete with Vargas (loser goes to the pen as the long man). Sign either Ottavino, Allen, or Warren. Somebody like that. Shouldn't cost a ton more.
the Mets from pursuing Machado (at least a part of it), but saying they shouldn't have signed him is pure 20/20 hind sight.
it didn't work out, but he was the best available option at the time. I had no issue with it at the time, seemed like good term based on what the projections were initially that he'd get.
What the Mets should explore having a new GM (as an excuse) is try and work out a settlement with Cespedes and cut him loose if that's possible.
and get another pitcher. We really need more depth there. My initial reaction was concern with blocking McNeil and not spending the money on pitching, but after more thought, Lowrie is a REALLY underrated player and I'm glad he's in the blue and orange.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Sign Derek Holland for 2 million to compete with Vargas (loser goes to the pen as the long man). Sign either Ottavino, Allen, or Warren. Somebody like that. Shouldn't cost a ton more.
You're talking about the Holland that was on the Giants last year? I had no idea he was a UFA. He's realllllly underrated (if you're into fantasy baseball, and need to start a lot of pitchers, look to snag him late in your draft).
We are still missing the true superstar..back then we had 3..
I think Conforto and Nimmo are those homegrown superstars or are on the verge of that. I know you mentioned Loduca, Valentin, etc. but give me Cano, Ramos, and Lowrie over those guys. I also think we have potential for a bunch of young breakout guys to add to Nimmo and Conforto. Alonso, JD Davis, Rosario. McNeil all could shatter what we had then depending on how far they go. If Cespedes comes back second half healthy this lineup could be elite. Right now Ill settle for deep and versatile.
and get another pitcher. We really need more depth there. My initial reaction was concern with blocking McNeil and not spending the money on pitching, but after more thought, Lowrie is a REALLY underrated player and I'm glad he's in the blue and orange.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Sign Derek Holland for 2 million to compete with Vargas (loser goes to the pen as the long man). Sign either Ottavino, Allen, or Warren. Somebody like that. Shouldn't cost a ton more.
You're talking about the Holland that was on the Giants last year? I had no idea he was a UFA. He's realllllly underrated (if you're into fantasy baseball, and need to start a lot of pitchers, look to snag him late in your draft).
Would LOVE to add him to our team.
Yup. There was a blurb on MLBTR about a week ago BVW was pursuing him. There was a thought he might even settle for a minor league deal but was holding out for a ML contract with somebody. He should! He's a good player. Shouldn't cost much either.
the Mets from pursuing Machado (at least a part of it), but saying they shouldn't have signed him is pure 20/20 hind sight.
it didn't work out, but he was the best available option at the time. I had no issue with it at the time, seemed like good term based on what the projections were initially that he'd get.
What the Mets should explore having a new GM (as an excuse) is try and work out a settlement with Cespedes and cut him loose if that's possible.
This year they will probably end up getting most of his money back through insurance. Maybe next offseason you can flip him for another bad contract (or 2) since he'd only have 1 year left. Or they can do a buyout in the offseason a la Kemp/AGon. But totally agree - we all wanted Cespedes back. Pretty sure there were gofundme's and everything. Just got terrible luck that he all of a sudden became extremely injury prone after being a 550ab guy his whole prior career. Kind of like the Wright contract.
RE: RE: He's going to cost more than $2M though... Â
the Mets are better now on Jan 10 than they were on Sep 30.
And while it's not the approach I think would have been the easiest to improve, if it leads to results on the field I don't care.
I'll sacrifice the future for a WS, but the problem I'll have is at the deadline if god forbid the Mets are alive and in a race if they don't make the smart moves to help improve the team. because short of a WS or being consistently competitive there are no moral victories.
Let's hope we get there (to being competitive at the deadline) and have that option instead of being sellers like the past two years.
I believe the Holland rumor came from Rosenthal so I think it's legit Â
I think there's legitimate argument on both sides.
Right now, I think it's an interesting bet as to whether or not Cano + Lowrie will outproduce Machado over the next couple years. I think the odds are literally 50-50. So is it a better investment to go after Machado and roll the dice long term for a guy who has a lot of value in his defense which could start declining or short term on older players who are still performing? Like I said, I think there's a legitimate argument both ways.
Where I think there's no argument is to be going for it but to be haphazard not making the necessary short term signings for depth in the BP. It's like putting a new roof on a house but not sealing it. Once you've done the heavy lifting, paid for the new roof, and labor to install, why skimp on finishing the job with the cheapest part?
I think that's coming. Look at what he just did to the lineup. We added a ton of depth to the bench so it's not like Brody is overlooking it. I think we'll start to see a bunch of arms added. They might be cheap ones or minor league invites like Avilan today but Im betting there's some interesting names by the time we head to camp. Caminero was interesting. He was the hardest throwing reliever in baseball after Chapman before he got hurt. That said I want one more established name too.
RE: RE: I agree Cespedes is probably what is preventing Â
the Mets from pursuing Machado (at least a part of it), but saying they shouldn't have signed him is pure 20/20 hind sight.
it didn't work out, but he was the best available option at the time. I had no issue with it at the time, seemed like good term based on what the projections were initially that he'd get.
What the Mets should explore having a new GM (as an excuse) is try and work out a settlement with Cespedes and cut him loose if that's possible.
This year they will probably end up getting most of his money back through insurance. Maybe next offseason you can flip him for another bad contract (or 2) since he'd only have 1 year left. Or they can do a buyout in the offseason a la Kemp/AGon. But totally agree - we all wanted Cespedes back. Pretty sure there were gofundme's and everything. Just got terrible luck that he all of a sudden became extremely injury prone after being a 550ab guy his whole prior career. Kind of like the Wright contract.
The frustrating thing about Cespedes is that he's not some guy who just "lost it" after he came to the Mets or after he signed a contract. Whenever he's on the field, he's hit like the elite stud that we all want him to be.
He'll never live up to that contract, but that's a sunk cost. If he can be our trade deadline acquisition and give us 6-8 weeks of elite play (and postseason ?!?!) and give us 400-450 ABS in 2020, the contract won't be a complete disaster.
with a tractor trailer, and that might be founded, but how different are things if Wright, Harvey, and Cespedes are healthy over the last 4-5 years?
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
We did that for years. That's what got us into such a ridiculous mess at the end of Omar's tenure. Forcing Bay's and Castillos, and Perez's just ended up a disaster. Even going after Santana when the core was crumbling was stupid. You can overcome one star but not many teams can overcome what we've went through with 3. And we are spending to try to supplement the best we can. Look, its not perfect but there are Braves fans, and Brewers fans, and countless teams out there with lower payrolls than us getting excited for this upcoming season. It's not all about the payroll.
with a tractor trailer, and that might be founded, but how different are things if Wright, Harvey, and Cespedes are healthy over the last 4-5 years?
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
Good point, Mets are clearly the only team in baseball avoiding long term contracts. Seems like the whole industry is spending like drunken sailors. How many contracts this offseason have been longer than three years? TWO. A whopping two. In one of the most anticipated free agent classes perhaps ever.
Yes, the team scared of a long term contract. Took on Canos. Which would be the second longest contract given out this offseason if he were considered a free agent...
apparently talking to 6 teams - dodgers, astros, braves, reds, padres, rays.
One thing I absolutely LOVE about BVW and his negotiating style. He is honest. He is aggressive. He will knowing overpay tog et what he wants. But he is always ready to walk when the other side is unwilling to be reasonable. And he moves on in an instant. Sends a really, REALLY strong message to other GMs. I LOVE it.
with a tractor trailer, and that might be founded, but how different are things if Wright, Harvey, and Cespedes are healthy over the last 4-5 years?
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
Good point, Mets are clearly the only team in baseball avoiding long term contracts. Seems like the whole industry is spending like drunken sailors. How many contracts this offseason have been longer than three years? TWO. A whopping two. In one of the most anticipated free agent classes perhaps ever.
Yes, the team scared of a long term contract. Took on Canos. Which would be the second longest contract given out this offseason if he were considered a free agent...
Nobody else is doing it so we shouldn't either is your excuse?
How many 26 year old uber super stars even hit free agency anymore?
And how many don't even cost you a draft pick?
structure the deal with opt outs, deferred money, insurance, whatever, get creative if you want protection.
but don't tell me no one else is giving long-term contracts either so we're not going to pursue Machado. If anything it should make the pursuit easier, right?
second, don't tell me you don't find Machado to be a cultural fit (through the media) and then get linked to Puig. That reeks of convenience and cost.
long-term contracts are risky no doubt and many have failed spectacularly, so teams should absolutely be judicious in deciding who to offer a LTC to, but those failures should set back franchises like Arizona, not a NY team.
Quote:
In comment 14257685 ZGiants98 said:
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I can't believe he is even remotely relevant.
You'd have to be a complete asshole to not like this move. lol
The move is ok...
But Harper or Machado would be better. That's the whole point.
If you start with the precondition that the Mets can not sign Machado or Harper, then their off-season had been pretty good.
If you don't start with that ridiculous precondition, the off-season has been completely half assed and is being overrated.
That's the point KO is making...
It also is a little weird that BVW is bringing in former clients who are at the very end of their careers.
That's fine. There is a contingent of fans that would have never been happy with anything unless we signed Harper or Machado. I get it. But at least admit it acknowledge that nothing barring that would have ever made you happy. There are 29 other teams and everyone wants those two players. They are going to cost 300+ million. It was always a long shot even if money was bottomless.
As for Lowrie, if you don't like this move than you shouldn't have liked Pollock or Marwin Gonzalez or any other addition because he's in that "tier" and just as good.
1) I'm definitely part of that contingent, with one qualificiation: I'm more mad about them not even TRYING to sign Harper/Machado. If they had legitimate, genuine competitive offers on the table and lost, can't fault them.
2) I wanted no part of Pollock, Marwin, or any other 2nd tier addition if it wasn't in addition to Harper/Machado.
This off-season has been fine. Nothing to get excited about. They could be a pretty good team.
..but there is no doubt in my mind that if they expanded the payroll, they would be a better team than they are now...
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95 wRC+, 1.7 fWAR season. I was referring to what he did in 2014. Holy overreaction. Lowrie has clearly evolved in to a much better hitter over the last couple of seasons than he was earlier in his year.
5 years ago was his best season prior to the last two where he had a 120 wRC+ and a 3.4 fWAR.
Right but even so 5 years ago he'd have been heading int0 2014 (we are heading into to 2019), so he wouldnt have been good the year we had him.
Moving on off of that. Clearly a huge miscommunication. Still thing Olberman is a clown. lol
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In comment 14257702 moze1021 said:
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In comment 14257685 ZGiants98 said:
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I can't believe he is even remotely relevant.
You'd have to be a complete asshole to not like this move. lol
The move is ok...
But Harper or Machado would be better. That's the whole point.
If you start with the precondition that the Mets can not sign Machado or Harper, then their off-season had been pretty good.
If you don't start with that ridiculous precondition, the off-season has been completely half assed and is being overrated.
That's the point KO is making...
It also is a little weird that BVW is bringing in former clients who are at the very end of their careers.
That's fine. There is a contingent of fans that would have never been happy with anything unless we signed Harper or Machado. I get it. But at least admit it acknowledge that nothing barring that would have ever made you happy. There are 29 other teams and everyone wants those two players. They are going to cost 300+ million. It was always a long shot even if money was bottomless.
As for Lowrie, if you don't like this move than you shouldn't have liked Pollock or Marwin Gonzalez or any other addition because he's in that "tier" and just as good.
1) I'm definitely part of that contingent, with one qualificiation: I'm more mad about them not even TRYING to sign Harper/Machado. If they had legitimate, genuine competitive offers on the table and lost, can't fault them.
2) I wanted no part of Pollock, Marwin, or any other 2nd tier addition if it wasn't in addition to Harper/Machado.
This off-season has been fine. Nothing to get excited about. They could be a pretty good team.
..but there is no doubt in my mind that if they expanded the payroll, they would be a better team than they are now...
Regardless on whether or not there were any formal sit downs or not, I am 100% positive Brody has spoken to Boras this offseason. Im sure he is well aware of the costs involved in Harper. He probably felt that money could have been better invested in 5-6 players than 1. Just a guess.
In 2014 he got a 1 year / 5m deal with Oakland and was worth 1.7fwar.
2015-2017 he was on a 3 year / 23m deal (4th year option brought it to 29m total) he signed with Houston. Over those 4 years he posted 1.1 fwar, -.7 fwar, and then the last 2 years that totaled almost 9fwar.
So both of his FA deals paid off pretty well. Let's hope this one follows suit.
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
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Lowrie in 2014. He's next three years were pretty brutal. Isnt it those years we'd have been acquiring him for? The years he posted a wRC+ of 95, 95, and 76? That's all I meant. I'd surely take this version who's broken out and become an all-star over the last couple of years.
In 2014 he got a 1 year / 5m deal with Oakland and was worth 1.7fwar.
2015-2017 he was on a 3 year / 23m deal (4th year option brought it to 29m total) he signed with Houston. Over those 4 years he posted 1.1 fwar, -.7 fwar, and then the last 2 years that totaled almost 9fwar.
So both of his FA deals paid off pretty well. Let's hope this one follows suit.
Sure. Im just saying I want this version that broke out now. Not the guy that was heading into 2014. He was ok when he was younger but a lot of that was likely tied to the position he played and defense. He wasn't make all star games before recently. I know he's older, but he's another guy coming off a damn near elite season and he can hit. I stand by this being yet another solid player added of the "MGone, Pollock, ilk. No, its not Harper or Machado but its ok to like adding quality to players to the team IMO in spite of those two.
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
Hey, we wont know until we know... Harper would be amazing.. But I trust Cotts numbers and they got us around 158 million. Give me Ottavino for around 10 and that pushes us to almost 170. Ill be very satisfied with that.
Especially if Manny played 3B and it kept McNeil in the lineup at 2B.
Losing Swarzak and Bruce could have happened any number of ways but didn't have to be part of the Cano/Diaz trade.
It's a fair point, especially when you consider the age of Cano and Lowrie vs Machado.
Not sure why two things can't be true:
Olbermann is an asshole
Olbermann is right about this
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How about the 5 or 6 players AND Harper.
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
Hey, we wont know until we know... Harper would be amazing.. But I trust Cotts numbers and they got us around 158 million. Give me Ottavino for around 10 and that pushes us to almost 170. Ill be very satisfied with that.
That makes 1 of us ;)
I won't be satisfied until we operate like it's 2004/5 again and are a major player in every big time free agent or trade candidate that hits the market.... And if it means paying luxury tax then so be it.. the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Tigers, Nationals, and Angels have all done it at some point...
And you know what, we don't need to be spending that much every year... But when the team is on the brink, when they are just a couple pieces away, that's the time to stretch and go for it.
The "Mets are going for it", "Mets are in win-now mode" bullshit pisses me off... No they aren't. They are in a "let's put the best team on the field we can without breaking the bank" mode, and they have been that way for years.
Especially if Manny played 3B and it kept McNeil in the lineup at 2B.
Losing Swarzak and Bruce could have happened any number of ways but didn't have to be part of the Cano/Diaz trade.
It's a fair point, especially when you consider the age of Cano and Lowrie vs Machado.
Not sure why two things can't be true:
Olbermann is an asshole
Olbermann is right about this
Yes but part of the Cano deal was that they had to take back Bruce/Swarzak (and 20 million) in order to keep the payroll low TO sign Ramos and Lowrie. That's why is comment makes no sense in my mind. He's leaving out important details. If Bruce and Swarzak are still here and we sign Machado instead. Our payroll is much higher now. We also likely had to go out and sign a closer on top of Familia right? He's just shooting off and not thinking anything through.
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In comment 14257747 moze1021 said:
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How about the 5 or 6 players AND Harper.
Mets have a lot of room between current payroll and luxury tax.
The moves they have done and signing Harper/Machado do not have to be mutually exclusive.
I'm still hoping with all hope that getting Harper is still a possibility.
Hey, we wont know until we know... Harper would be amazing.. But I trust Cotts numbers and they got us around 158 million. Give me Ottavino for around 10 and that pushes us to almost 170. Ill be very satisfied with that.
That makes 1 of us ;)
I won't be satisfied until we operate like it's 2004/5 again and are a major player in every big time free agent or trade candidate that hits the market.... And if it means paying luxury tax then so be it.. the Red Sox, Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Tigers, Nationals, and Angels have all done it at some point...
And you know what, we don't need to be spending that much every year... But when the team is on the brink, when they are just a couple pieces away, that's the time to stretch and go for it.
The "Mets are going for it", "Mets are in win-now mode" bullshit pisses me off... No they aren't. They are in a "let's put the best team on the field we can without breaking the bank" mode, and they have been that way for years.
Remember that we went through a long rebuild for a reason and that many of our top players arent making a lot of money yet. Thats a big part of it. Syndergaard, deGrom, Wheeler, Nimmo, Conforto, etc. are going to cost a fortune when they are free agents. If we had signed them all to big deals early and the roster was the same but our payroll was 220 million would you be happy then? Just be happy we have a bunch of cost controllable talent in starting roles. That's what everyone wants! I want Machado and Harper too but so does everyone.
I also read recently that the Mets actually don't bring in what people think they do. Blame it on the Wilpons but the SNY deal actually sucks. They only get 50% of the profits from SNY. I think if you count total operational revenue the Mets came in around 18th or something like that. Ill try to dig it up.
I don't even know if he's a Mets fan.
Machado is the best free agent fit to come available at a position of need for the Mets in ages. Maybe since Beltran. And he won't even cost a draft pick.
It's practically a no-brainer. Especially with a new GM looking to make a splash.
It is reasonable to think the Mets could have signed Machado and also unloaded Bruce and Swarzak separately and the payroll wouldn't be much different.
So while I like Lowrie and think, as I mentioned, he adds an additional element to the team and depth, but he doesn't cone without risk.
And he's not a plan A (for me).
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
..down the road *Didn't stop* the Mets from adding Beltran..
I don't even know if he's a Mets fan.
Machado is the best free agent fit to come available at a position of need for the Mets in ages. Maybe since Beltran. And he won't even cost a draft pick.
It's practically a no-brainer. Especially with a new GM looking to make a splash.
It is reasonable to think the Mets could have signed Machado and also unloaded Bruce and Swarzak separately and the payroll wouldn't be much different.
So while I like Lowrie and think, as I mentioned, he adds an additional element to the team and depth, but he doesn't cone without risk.
And he's not a plan A (for me).
And I don't see anything wrong with that. That's absolutely fine. Harper or Machado would have been my A+ offseason also, especially if we could have slid in more on top of it. But I think both were long shots and it's still ok to like everything else we've done instead. We've now added 5 recent all-stars at positions of needs and strengthened our bench and AAA depth. If you told me you can't have Harper or Machado but Ill give you anything else you want, I probably would have come up with something similar to what we've done to be honest. Im very pleased and I STILL think we add another arm.
Can we be cool again now? Im sorry about the shit I said to you a few weeks ago. Its going to be a long season if we are sniping at each other all year.
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Is what the Mets did then that much different than what we've done now? Beltran was young and in his prime but Delgado, Wagner, Glavine, and Pedro were good players at the end of their careers, weren't they? Isnt Diaz young and elite and just entering his prime? Lowrie, Familia, Cano, and Ramos are older but all are still playing at a high level, similar to then. I also think our homegrown base far outweighs the 2006-2008 years. This is the best foundation of talent since the mid 80s. It still might not be enough but damnit this team should be fun to watch with relative health IMO.
I like the off-season for 2019.
Long-term not so sure.
Hinges on how Cano ages and if Diaz maintains/improves.
and that doesn't even consider how Kelenic and Dunn pan out.
If Kelenic becomes Trout it could make this off-season franchise altering. That risk is worth taking if it leads to Mets WS, but otherwise it will be looked at negatively.
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On track for HOF careers that they would have to pay down the road the Mets from adding Beltran, Pedro, Delgado, etc...
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Is what the Mets did then that much different than what we've done now? Beltran was young and in his prime but Delgado, Wagner, Glavine, and Pedro were good players at the end of their careers, weren't they? Isnt Diaz young and elite and just entering his prime? Lowrie, Familia, Cano, and Ramos are older but all are still playing at a high level, similar to then. I also think our homegrown base far outweighs the 2006-2008 years. This is the best foundation of talent since the mid 80s. It still might not be enough but damnit this team should be fun to watch with relative health IMO.
Yes. They added Carlos Beltran..which was akin to adding Machado or Harper.
That's exactly the difference. Exactly it.
Floyd, Nady, Valentin, LoDuca.. I can see the parallels to today...
But we don't have any position player as good as Beltran, Wright, or Reyes from those teams. Adding Harper or Machado would do that..
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In comment 14257783 moze1021 said:
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On track for HOF careers that they would have to pay down the road the Mets from adding Beltran, Pedro, Delgado, etc...
Didn't stop the Yankees from adding Stanton, the Red Sox from adding Price..
The big market teams operate differently... A $220M payroll for a few years should be doable for the Mets... If not, then sell the team
Is what the Mets did then that much different than what we've done now? Beltran was young and in his prime but Delgado, Wagner, Glavine, and Pedro were good players at the end of their careers, weren't they? Isnt Diaz young and elite and just entering his prime? Lowrie, Familia, Cano, and Ramos are older but all are still playing at a high level, similar to then. I also think our homegrown base far outweighs the 2006-2008 years. This is the best foundation of talent since the mid 80s. It still might not be enough but damnit this team should be fun to watch with relative health IMO.
Yes. They added Carlos Beltran..which was akin to adding Machado or Harper.
That's exactly the difference. Exactly it.
Floyd, Nady, Valentin, LoDuca.. I can see the parallels to today...
But we don't have any position player as good as Beltran, Wright, or Reyes from those teams. Adding Harper or Machado would do that..
Yeah Beltran was a huge player and get but I still think he was a tier lower than when we almost went after Griffey and Arod (which are more like Machado/Harper today) Those were the mega deals of that day.
Like I said, going out and getting a Diaz is similar to also getting a younger elite talent in his prime, not just a bunch of older talent. Ill take this roster over the 2006-2008 ones actually. The only thing hurting this team right now is a bit of uncertainty with how well or how far some of our younger hitters go but that's not a bad thing. These arent scrubs. These are talented young hitters. The lineup looks deep and versatile now.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Like I said...real, genuine offer on the table, less to complain about right now
Bullpen and Lineup better then
We are still missing the true superstar..back then we had 3..
Facts are facts and we are paying a guy 30 million AAV and he might be back mid season. Let's assume the Mets think he is coming back around then. How is Harper even fitting with Nimmo, Conforto, and everyone else on this roster? Maybe you should say "Oh well, make it work, THIS IS NY" but a team running a 160 million dollar payroll that has extensions they have to work out in the future to keep their pitching likely isnt thinking that way.
Just a guess.
Right now, I think it's an interesting bet as to whether or not Cano + Lowrie will outproduce Machado over the next couple years. I think the odds are literally 50-50. So is it a better investment to go after Machado and roll the dice long term for a guy who has a lot of value in his defense which could start declining or short term on older players who are still performing? Like I said, I think there's a legitimate argument both ways.
Where I think there's no argument is to be going for it but to be haphazard not making the necessary short term signings for depth in the BP. It's like putting a new roof on a house but not sealing it. Once you've done the heavy lifting, paid for the new roof, and labor to install, why skimp on finishing the job with the cheapest part?
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Sign Derek Holland for 2 million to compete with Vargas (loser goes to the pen as the long man). Sign either Ottavino, Allen, or Warren. Somebody like that. Shouldn't cost a ton more.
it didn't work out, but he was the best available option at the time. I had no issue with it at the time, seemed like good term based on what the projections were initially that he'd get.
What the Mets should explore having a new GM (as an excuse) is try and work out a settlement with Cespedes and cut him loose if that's possible.
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and get another pitcher. We really need more depth there. My initial reaction was concern with blocking McNeil and not spending the money on pitching, but after more thought, Lowrie is a REALLY underrated player and I'm glad he's in the blue and orange.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Sign Derek Holland for 2 million to compete with Vargas (loser goes to the pen as the long man). Sign either Ottavino, Allen, or Warren. Somebody like that. Shouldn't cost a ton more.
You're talking about the Holland that was on the Giants last year? I had no idea he was a UFA. He's realllllly underrated (if you're into fantasy baseball, and need to start a lot of pitchers, look to snag him late in your draft).
Would LOVE to add him to our team.
Bullpen and Lineup better then
We are still missing the true superstar..back then we had 3..
I think Conforto and Nimmo are those homegrown superstars or are on the verge of that. I know you mentioned Loduca, Valentin, etc. but give me Cano, Ramos, and Lowrie over those guys. I also think we have potential for a bunch of young breakout guys to add to Nimmo and Conforto. Alonso, JD Davis, Rosario. McNeil all could shatter what we had then depending on how far they go. If Cespedes comes back second half healthy this lineup could be elite. Right now Ill settle for deep and versatile.
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In comment 14257819 Metnut said:
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and get another pitcher. We really need more depth there. My initial reaction was concern with blocking McNeil and not spending the money on pitching, but after more thought, Lowrie is a REALLY underrated player and I'm glad he's in the blue and orange.
Please just go the extra mile and add the pitching depth that we really need.
Sign Derek Holland for 2 million to compete with Vargas (loser goes to the pen as the long man). Sign either Ottavino, Allen, or Warren. Somebody like that. Shouldn't cost a ton more.
You're talking about the Holland that was on the Giants last year? I had no idea he was a UFA. He's realllllly underrated (if you're into fantasy baseball, and need to start a lot of pitchers, look to snag him late in your draft).
Would LOVE to add him to our team.
Yup. There was a blurb on MLBTR about a week ago BVW was pursuing him. There was a thought he might even settle for a minor league deal but was holding out for a ML contract with somebody. He should! He's a good player. Shouldn't cost much either.
Link - ( New Window )
it didn't work out, but he was the best available option at the time. I had no issue with it at the time, seemed like good term based on what the projections were initially that he'd get.
What the Mets should explore having a new GM (as an excuse) is try and work out a settlement with Cespedes and cut him loose if that's possible.
This year they will probably end up getting most of his money back through insurance. Maybe next offseason you can flip him for another bad contract (or 2) since he'd only have 1 year left. Or they can do a buyout in the offseason a la Kemp/AGon. But totally agree - we all wanted Cespedes back. Pretty sure there were gofundme's and everything. Just got terrible luck that he all of a sudden became extremely injury prone after being a 550ab guy his whole prior career. Kind of like the Wright contract.
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Coming off of a 2.0 fWAR season last year.
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Tomlin stinks. No thanks. Gimme Holland.
And while it's not the approach I think would have been the easiest to improve, if it leads to results on the field I don't care.
I'll sacrifice the future for a WS, but the problem I'll have is at the deadline if god forbid the Mets are alive and in a race if they don't make the smart moves to help improve the team. because short of a WS or being consistently competitive there are no moral victories.
Let's hope we get there (to being competitive at the deadline) and have that option instead of being sellers like the past two years.
Right now, I think it's an interesting bet as to whether or not Cano + Lowrie will outproduce Machado over the next couple years. I think the odds are literally 50-50. So is it a better investment to go after Machado and roll the dice long term for a guy who has a lot of value in his defense which could start declining or short term on older players who are still performing? Like I said, I think there's a legitimate argument both ways.
Where I think there's no argument is to be going for it but to be haphazard not making the necessary short term signings for depth in the BP. It's like putting a new roof on a house but not sealing it. Once you've done the heavy lifting, paid for the new roof, and labor to install, why skimp on finishing the job with the cheapest part?
I think that's coming. Look at what he just did to the lineup. We added a ton of depth to the bench so it's not like Brody is overlooking it. I think we'll start to see a bunch of arms added. They might be cheap ones or minor league invites like Avilan today but Im betting there's some interesting names by the time we head to camp. Caminero was interesting. He was the hardest throwing reliever in baseball after Chapman before he got hurt. That said I want one more established name too.
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the Mets from pursuing Machado (at least a part of it), but saying they shouldn't have signed him is pure 20/20 hind sight.
it didn't work out, but he was the best available option at the time. I had no issue with it at the time, seemed like good term based on what the projections were initially that he'd get.
What the Mets should explore having a new GM (as an excuse) is try and work out a settlement with Cespedes and cut him loose if that's possible.
This year they will probably end up getting most of his money back through insurance. Maybe next offseason you can flip him for another bad contract (or 2) since he'd only have 1 year left. Or they can do a buyout in the offseason a la Kemp/AGon. But totally agree - we all wanted Cespedes back. Pretty sure there were gofundme's and everything. Just got terrible luck that he all of a sudden became extremely injury prone after being a 550ab guy his whole prior career. Kind of like the Wright contract.
The frustrating thing about Cespedes is that he's not some guy who just "lost it" after he came to the Mets or after he signed a contract. Whenever he's on the field, he's hit like the elite stud that we all want him to be.
He'll never live up to that contract, but that's a sunk cost. If he can be our trade deadline acquisition and give us 6-8 weeks of elite play (and postseason ?!?!) and give us 400-450 ABS in 2020, the contract won't be a complete disaster.
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
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with a tractor trailer, and that might be founded, but how different are things if Wright, Harvey, and Cespedes are healthy over the last 4-5 years?
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
We did that for years. That's what got us into such a ridiculous mess at the end of Omar's tenure. Forcing Bay's and Castillos, and Perez's just ended up a disaster. Even going after Santana when the core was crumbling was stupid. You can overcome one star but not many teams can overcome what we've went through with 3. And we are spending to try to supplement the best we can. Look, its not perfect but there are Braves fans, and Brewers fans, and countless teams out there with lower payrolls than us getting excited for this upcoming season. It's not all about the payroll.
Adds a veteran presence along with Cano and Ramos
If Mets avoid injuries, they are going to be a team that is right there all season
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with a tractor trailer, and that might be founded, but how different are things if Wright, Harvey, and Cespedes are healthy over the last 4-5 years?
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
Good point, Mets are clearly the only team in baseball avoiding long term contracts. Seems like the whole industry is spending like drunken sailors. How many contracts this offseason have been longer than three years? TWO. A whopping two. In one of the most anticipated free agent classes perhaps ever.
Yes, the team scared of a long term contract. Took on Canos. Which would be the second longest contract given out this offseason if he were considered a free agent...
One thing I absolutely LOVE about BVW and his negotiating style. He is honest. He is aggressive. He will knowing overpay tog et what he wants. But he is always ready to walk when the other side is unwilling to be reasonable. And he moves on in an instant. Sends a really, REALLY strong message to other GMs. I LOVE it.
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In comment 14257858 ZGiants98 said:
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with a tractor trailer, and that might be founded, but how different are things if Wright, Harvey, and Cespedes are healthy over the last 4-5 years?
Sometimes you just have to say "that sucks" and move on. That's sports.
Other teams spend over mistakes and injuries..that's the difference...
They don't pokcet insurance money and develop a fear of long term contracts..
Good point, Mets are clearly the only team in baseball avoiding long term contracts. Seems like the whole industry is spending like drunken sailors. How many contracts this offseason have been longer than three years? TWO. A whopping two. In one of the most anticipated free agent classes perhaps ever.
Yes, the team scared of a long term contract. Took on Canos. Which would be the second longest contract given out this offseason if he were considered a free agent...
Nobody else is doing it so we shouldn't either is your excuse?
How many 26 year old uber super stars even hit free agency anymore?
And how many don't even cost you a draft pick?
structure the deal with opt outs, deferred money, insurance, whatever, get creative if you want protection.
but don't tell me no one else is giving long-term contracts either so we're not going to pursue Machado. If anything it should make the pursuit easier, right?
second, don't tell me you don't find Machado to be a cultural fit (through the media) and then get linked to Puig. That reeks of convenience and cost.
long-term contracts are risky no doubt and many have failed spectacularly, so teams should absolutely be judicious in deciding who to offer a LTC to, but those failures should set back franchises like Arizona, not a NY team.