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Vance Joseph to be the DC in AZ

BigBlueDownTheShore : 1/11/2019 1:45 pm
Say what you want about Kliff, he could have 2 coordinators that were former head coaches. That's pretty impressive for failing up.
Makes sense.  
Dave in Hoboken : 1/11/2019 1:53 pm : link
Joseph isn't HC material.
2 failed head coaches  
djstat : 1/11/2019 2:59 pm : link
Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser
RE: 2 failed head coaches  
BIG FRED 1973 : 1/11/2019 3:27 pm : link
In comment 14258645 djstat said:
Quote:
Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser
Mcadoo won 11 games in 2016 more than any Giants head coach in the regular season since 2008 .
RE: RE: 2 failed head coaches  
FStubbs : 1/11/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14258716 BIG FRED 1973 said:
Quote:
In comment 14258645 djstat said:


Quote:


Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser

Mcadoo won 11 games in 2016 more than any Giants head coach in the regular season since 2008 .


I don't want to sound like that guy, but I will.

... Coughlin would've won 14 games with that team.
RE: Makes sense.  
McNally's_Nuts : 1/11/2019 7:56 pm : link
In comment 14258519 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
Joseph isn't HC material.


He didn’t get any favors from John Elway.
RE: 2 failed head coaches  
MookGiants : 1/11/2019 8:06 pm : link
In comment 14258645 djstat said:
Quote:
Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser


The current head coach of the Giants is a proven loser. McAdoo had one good year and one horrible one. Shurmur would kill to have one good year as head coach.
RE: RE: 2 failed head coaches  
arcarsenal : 1/11/2019 8:14 pm : link
In comment 14259035 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14258645 djstat said:


Quote:


Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser



The current head coach of the Giants is a proven loser. McAdoo had one good year and one horrible one. Shurmur would kill to have one good year as head coach.


He'd probably kill to have a top 5 defense, too...
McAdoo's game management was part of why that 2016 team was good  
Go Terps : 1/11/2019 8:22 pm : link
He wasn't along for the ride being carried by the defense.

Shurmur wasn't along for the ride this year either... He helped fuck games up.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/11/2019 8:29 pm : link
Your logic is backwards again.

You can manage games differently when you have a defense that can actually get stops late in games. You can play a FP game, you can be content to lean on the run and punt.

McAdoo had a defense that you could do this stuff with - Shurmur had one that blew lead after lead at the end of games.

Shurmur has his own coaching issues, but it's a lot easier to look like a good game manager when you don't have a porous defense that routinely lets teams march down the field and score late in games.

The defense couldn't finish off the Panthers, they nearly blew the TB game and would have if TB had an extra 2 minutes or so, they almost let Chase Daniel compete an epic comeback against them, they couldn't put away Indy, they couldn't put away Dallas.

It's okay to not like Pat Shurmur - it's disingenuous to act like he and McAdoo were working with the same defense.

McAdoo's brilliant "game management" didn't look so great in 2017 when the defense fell apart, did it?
McAdoo would kill  
Jay on the Island : 1/11/2019 8:32 pm : link
to have a team that doesn't quit on him.
RE: McAdoo's game management was part of why that 2016 team was good  
Jay on the Island : 1/11/2019 8:33 pm : link
In comment 14259047 Go Terps said:
Quote:
He wasn't along for the ride being carried by the defense.

Shurmur wasn't along for the ride this year either... He helped fuck games up.

The Giants lost 4 games this season when leading with 90 seconds remaining. Had Shurmur had the 2016 defense the Giants would have been a much better team.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/11/2019 8:36 pm : link
If McAdoo wasn't riding the defense in 2016, how were we winning games? It sure as hell wasn't the offense.

Our offense in 2016 was... throw a quick slant to Beckham and hope he takes it all the way.
RE: RE: McAdoo's game management was part of why that 2016 team was good  
Go Terps : 1/11/2019 8:37 pm : link
In comment 14259054 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14259047 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He wasn't along for the ride being carried by the defense.

Shurmur wasn't along for the ride this year either... He helped fuck games up.


The Giants lost 4 games this season when leading with 90 seconds remaining. Had Shurmur had the 2016 defense the Giants would have been a much better team.


Or maybe if he knew how to manage his timeouts and manage the clock they win those games.

The defense has become the fall guy to deflect from the dogshit job done by coaching and management.

It's easy for some to forget that the Giants came into the season looking like an unmade bed on offense on the way to 1-7.

Enjoy Shurmur while he's here. It won't be much longer.
RE: RE: RE: McAdoo's game management was part of why that 2016 team was good  
Jay on the Island : 1/11/2019 8:53 pm : link
In comment 14259059 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14259054 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


In comment 14259047 Go Terps said:


Quote:


He wasn't along for the ride being carried by the defense.

Shurmur wasn't along for the ride this year either... He helped fuck games up.


The Giants lost 4 games this season when leading with 90 seconds remaining. Had Shurmur had the 2016 defense the Giants would have been a much better team.



Or maybe if he knew how to manage his timeouts and manage the clock they win those games.

The defense has become the fall guy to deflect from the dogshit job done by coaching and management.

It's easy for some to forget that the Giants came into the season looking like an unmade bed on offense on the way to 1-7.

Enjoy Shurmur while he's here. It won't be much longer.

If he is as bad as you think then at least it will put us in position to get one of the top QB's in 2020.
Jay  
Go Terps : 1/11/2019 9:09 pm : link
I think this is how the whole thing is lining up.
RE: RE: 2 failed head coaches  
allstarjim : 1/12/2019 12:09 am : link
In comment 14258716 BIG FRED 1973 said:
Quote:
In comment 14258645 djstat said:


Quote:


Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser

Mcadoo won 11 games in 2016 more than any Giants head coach in the regular season since 2008 .


Thanks to Spags.

He was an offensive coach brought in to bring the offense back, and he failed miserably, even in that 11 win season. The offense was dreadful that year, and Reese and Mara hired the wrong coordinator.
RE: RE: RE: 2 failed head coaches  
allstarjim : 1/12/2019 12:20 am : link
In comment 14259040 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14259035 MookGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14258645 djstat said:


Quote:


Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser



The current head coach of the Giants is a proven loser. McAdoo had one good year and one horrible one. Shurmur would kill to have one good year as head coach.



He'd probably kill to have a top 5 defense, too...


Correction, top two defense.

I can't believe we have McAdoo defenders. Defending McAdoo is like defending Charles Manson as if he was just a really nice hippie who got caught up with some bad girls.

You can think he did a good job, but he was an offensive coach that lost the respect of his team, whose offense was at the bottom of the league both years, and even opposing teams went on record as saying that they knew exactly what the Giants would do before they did it. He ran the most predictable offense in the entire NFL, who didn't even know of another formation other than 11-personnel.

If the Giants had a league average offense in 2016, they would've been Super Bowl contenders. In my life that was the worst NFL offense I've ever seen and I watched Dave Brown.
I don't know what it is but  
Bluesbreaker : 1/12/2019 9:15 am : link
I don't feel like Shurmur is the answer he just doesn't seem
to have the it factor especially post game after a win now
we rarely see the locker room after a loss . I don't see
the players gravitate to him . Call me crazy but
I wouldn't be shocked to see him replaced next season .
What's right...  
Emlen'sGremlins : 1/12/2019 9:21 am : link
....is right.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2 failed head coaches  
arcarsenal : 1/12/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14259173 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14259040 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14259035 MookGiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14258645 djstat said:


Quote:


Vance is a proven DC. McAdoo is a proven loser



The current head coach of the Giants is a proven loser. McAdoo had one good year and one horrible one. Shurmur would kill to have one good year as head coach.



He'd probably kill to have a top 5 defense, too...



Correction, top two defense.

I can't believe we have McAdoo defenders. Defending McAdoo is like defending Charles Manson as if he was just a really nice hippie who got caught up with some bad girls.

You can think he did a good job, but he was an offensive coach that lost the respect of his team, whose offense was at the bottom of the league both years, and even opposing teams went on record as saying that they knew exactly what the Giants would do before they did it. He ran the most predictable offense in the entire NFL, who didn't even know of another formation other than 11-personnel.

If the Giants had a league average offense in 2016, they would've been Super Bowl contenders. In my life that was the worst NFL offense I've ever seen and I watched Dave Brown.


Jim - what they're doing now is propping up McAdoo to knock Shurmur down because they have already decided he can't coach. It's ridiculous, but this is how people constantly move goal posts and change their arguments.

It's actually impressive that we are now finding ways to prop up the guy who was responsible for our lowest win total in about 40+ years, the guy who oversaw a locker room rife with problematic behavior and the inmates running the asylum, and the guy who was brought here to fix the offense and help Eli Manning and fielded some of the worst looking, unimaginative, and unproductive NYG offenses we've ever seen.

That's where we're at now... because we don't like Pat Shurmur.

Crediting Ben McAdoo for 11 wins is hilarious. He was brought here to fix the offense and failed miserably. He rode a defense that Reese spent tons of money on and was fired in the middle of his 2nd season. He didn't even make it to the finish line. That's how bad things got.

He was an absolute disaster of a hire. No other way to put it. He did none of the things he was brought here to do.
A lot of short sited  
crick n NC : 1/12/2019 12:19 pm : link
Thinking. I remember a poster saying they thought Mac "could be a great one" after his first season as HC.
arc  
Go Terps : 1/12/2019 12:21 pm : link
Everything you're saying about McAdoo is fair. He had to go.

He still did a much better job than Shurmur in year 1. That gives an idea of what we're currently working with at head coach. A disaster.
You can't possibly say  
crick n NC : 1/12/2019 12:23 pm : link
Mac did a better job. You're not comparing what each coach had to work with. It seems you are just looking at wins and losses without any context what so ever.
.  
arcarsenal : 1/12/2019 12:29 pm : link
I think we'll learn a lot more about Shurmur in year two. I didn't like the way he handled a bunch of in-game stuff and that's my biggest concern right now - but I also understand that this was a roster with a lot of talent deficiencies and that no one is winning in this league with a bottom 3rd defense and mediocre offense.

I'm hesitant to give McAdoo any sort of credit for the 11 win season because the component of the team that got us there was the one he had virtually nothing to do with. Steve Spagnuolo probably deserves more credit for 2016 than Ben McAdoo does, honestly.

I think if Shurmur had the 2016 defense, this could have been a much better football team.

You may well wind up being correct and we could see a brand new coach here in 2020. I personally want this coach to have the opportunity to show improvement for this team next season with what will hopefully be a passable offensive line and hopefully improved defense.

If the talent is better and the results aren't, I will be right there with you and want him gone. I just haven't made up my mind on him yet - I need to see how things evolve next year and if there's marked improvement or not.
RE: .  
Big Blue '56 : 1/12/2019 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14259456 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I think we'll learn a lot more about Shurmur in year two. I didn't like the way he handled a bunch of in-game stuff and that's my biggest concern right now - but I also understand that this was a roster with a lot of talent deficiencies and that no one is winning in this league with a bottom 3rd defense and mediocre offense.

I'm hesitant to give McAdoo any sort of credit for the 11 win season because the component of the team that got us there was the one he had virtually nothing to do with. Steve Spagnuolo probably deserves more credit for 2016 than Ben McAdoo does, honestly.

I think if Shurmur had the 2016 defense, this could have been a much better football team.

You may well wind up being correct and we could see a brand new coach here in 2020. I personally want this coach to have the opportunity to show improvement for this team next season with what will hopefully be a passable offensive line and hopefully improved defense.

If the talent is better and the results aren't, I will be right there with you and want him gone. I just haven't made up my mind on him yet - I need to see how things evolve next year and if there's marked improvement or not.


We should be rooting for Shurmur to succeed. Not too many better QB mavens out there you’d want to develop a young QB, imv
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 1/12/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14259463 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14259456 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


I think we'll learn a lot more about Shurmur in year two. I didn't like the way he handled a bunch of in-game stuff and that's my biggest concern right now - but I also understand that this was a roster with a lot of talent deficiencies and that no one is winning in this league with a bottom 3rd defense and mediocre offense.

I'm hesitant to give McAdoo any sort of credit for the 11 win season because the component of the team that got us there was the one he had virtually nothing to do with. Steve Spagnuolo probably deserves more credit for 2016 than Ben McAdoo does, honestly.

I think if Shurmur had the 2016 defense, this could have been a much better football team.

You may well wind up being correct and we could see a brand new coach here in 2020. I personally want this coach to have the opportunity to show improvement for this team next season with what will hopefully be a passable offensive line and hopefully improved defense.

If the talent is better and the results aren't, I will be right there with you and want him gone. I just haven't made up my mind on him yet - I need to see how things evolve next year and if there's marked improvement or not.



We should be rooting for Shurmur to succeed. Not too many better QB mavens out there you’d want to develop a young QB, imv


I wanted them to hire him because I assumed Eli's successor would wind up here during his tenure and wanted him to be the guy to usher in the next QB.

His game management needs a lot of work, but I finally saw some NFL offense here again as the year went on and I think we have a little something to build on.

Not everyone agrees with me, but I think he deserves another year after Gettleman hopefully brings a little more talent in here. This was a bad team as far as personnel went. Looks like about a 5 win roster on paper and that's what it was - so I wasn't terribly surprised. I thought we played better football later than we did back in September. Better doesn't mean good - but I honestly turned off more Giants games in 2017 than any other year in my life. The team was utterly unwatchable.

The 2018 team still lost a lot of games and there was still a lot of crappy football... but last year was really as bad as I can ever remember. This wasn't that bad.
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