Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

Yay or Nay? Fortifying OL in first 2 rounds?

Saos1n : 1/11/2019 10:05 pm
OT Jonah Williams (Alabama) at 6 and potentially trading back up into round 1 for OG Beau Benzschawel (Wisconsin)

Jamon Brown is a UFA. RT is a major concern. Weíve all seen the transformation of the Colts after Nelson and Smith.

Not getting into QB discussion here. Pass rush crew will damn this idea and want to attack the strength of the draft at DL, which is understandable.

We could still look at options later on with so many picks.

What say you?
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Not sure the value is there at #6  
Bluesbreaker : 1/12/2019 12:11 am : link
I think we go Edge rusher take the best OT in
the 2nd round .
I'll go for that, Breaker  
Manny in CA : 1/12/2019 1:28 am : link

If we can keep Vernon and get the best edge available at #6, that would HELP !
Edge rusher first  
montanagiant : 1/12/2019 2:54 am : link
Next two pick O-Line
RE: .  
short lease : 1/12/2019 2:54 am : link
In comment 14259155 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
You can't really just go into a draft and say "we're going to draft two offensive linemen with our first two picks"

The draft is fluid - you have to be prepared for all sorts of different scenarios and have a plan in place for as many possibilities as you can.

I think Gettleman will certainly go in looking to beef up the OL as much as possible - but he's not going to forfeit value to force positional selections, nor should he.

That said - with the number of picks we have, I expect us to come out of this draft with about 2-3 more draft prospects for the OL and we might try to add depth via FA as well.

You can love or hate Dave Gettleman, but he's going to address the offensive line. Will he get the right players? We'll see - so far a mixed bad. Solder was better later in the year - so that doesn't look as bad as it did before. Omameh was horrendous. Hernandez got much better as the year progressed - he's a keeper.

Shurmur also went out of his way to praise Halapio the other day - I think he'll still be in the OL plans at least as depth once he's healthy again. He seemed to think Pulley played well later in the year, too. I didn't key in on him enough to know if he picked it up or not - but they seem to think he got a bit better and might be able to help going forward.


Arc - I can't help wondering if Solder's play improved as Hernandez started to learn his position and settled in a bit more than he was at the beginning of the season? The 2 at least had to develop some chemistry between them from time played together? .... agree with everything else you said.
If you force the picks for the o-line at 1 and 2 and miss on a  
wgenesis123 : 1/12/2019 3:52 am : link
pick not only the o-line suffers but the whole team. What do you do after round 1 and 2, continue to force picks to meet needs? The Giants need a draft like New Orleans had a couple years ago with 4 major hits at almost any position. I think you have to just take the best players on your board with position value like O-line in mind.
Depends on FA  
uther99 : 1/12/2019 6:58 am : link
I would try to get James from Miami for RT, go D round 1 of draft and pick up a guard round 2 and center later
Probably not the  
Beer Man : 1/12/2019 7:03 am : link
1st round. the first would be better spent on a impact player for the D (or on the fantasy trade for Rosen 8> ).

According to the talking heads, there should be a lot of OL value in rounds 2-4.

Having said that, we don't what the Giants will be able to address through free angency.
RE: Depends on FA  
Beer Man : 1/12/2019 7:16 am : link
In comment 14259200 uther99 said:
Quote:
I would try to get James from Miami for RT, go D round 1 of draft and pick up a guard round 2 and center later
Problem with FA spending this year is that although the Giants will have about $31M spend, there are 18 teams with more space, some with obscene amounts of space that could easily outbid the Giants for anyone (e.g., the Colts will have $122M to spend; the dreaded Cowboys will have $55M).

On the bright, the Beagles have some difficult decisions coming once again, as they are currently $12M over the cap)
RE: We have the 38th pick  
Diver_Down : 1/12/2019 7:20 am : link
In comment 14259125 adamg said:
Quote:
with our second rounder, so it'd probably cost us an early fourth and a seventh to move up into the back of the first round.


And the 5th year option for a player picked out of the Top 10 but still in the first is a benefit greater than what the late round picks will deliver.

I've been going back and forth. I recognize the strength of the draft and our need to address the pass rush. But the futility of the OL has been nearly a decade. Some may say that OL can be found in later rounds and DG has done that with the Panthers. But the Giants have been unable to develop late round prospects since forever, and I don't think Hal is the one to do it. We either pay up in FA or draft highly rated prospects in the early rounds.
The last thing we want to do is...  
EricJ : 1/12/2019 7:36 am : link
go into the draft with the idea that we must select a player at a certain position. Just let it unfold.

I would have no problem though saying that we will NOT select a certain position with our #1 pick. CB, WR and TE for example are not a good idea for us this year at the 7th position.
The offense as now constructed  
joeinpa : 1/12/2019 7:38 am : link
Was so much better than the defense the second part of the year. So if the goal is for the best immediate improvement, I d say no to your proposal.

Personally I m more concerned about long term planning which is why I m hoping they deem Haskins as worthy of the 6th pick.
We go through this every year.  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 1/12/2019 7:55 am : link
"Draft all OL" is a fanboy thing that doesn't work in the real world.

This team has holes in many areas and they should be able to fill one of them at #6 with a talented prospect if they can avoid reaching for position like they did with Flowers.

The selection of Barkley last year gives me hope that this regime gets it. Take what the board gives you. Don't leave talent on the board.
In general  
Mike from Ohio : 1/12/2019 7:57 am : link
I hate the idea of targeting positions by round. You are no longer looking for talent, you are just taking what is left to you.

If Williams isnít there at #6 what do you do? Just take the next best offensive lineman on your board, even if he is #22 on your board? You just traded back with no compensation for doing so! If a trade is there to be made, great, but that is not often the case.

Stack your board base on your scouting, and take the best players available. Aside from RB itís not like this team is really set anywhere talent wise. If grades are close you lean toward position of higher value/need, but itís a mistake to just say the first two picks will be used on the Oline.
In the first round if there is no QB,  
St. Jimmy : 1/12/2019 8:34 am : link
I'd want a guy who can get to the quarterback. The defense getting off the field is a bigger issue than o-line.
So here's the the thing...Giants do not have  
Jimmy Googs : 1/12/2019 8:53 am : link
any particular short term issues to be laser-focused on with 2019 draft pick(s). The Giants, in fact, have NUMEROUS AREAS that need talent and/or complete re-tooling to build a solid longer-term roster. Those areas (ordered imv) include:

QB, ER, RT, LB, FS, CB, WR, C and LT.

We are basically the "poster child" for BPA-strategy...


I think we need  
GiantsRage2007 : 1/12/2019 9:11 am : link
To come away with 1 DL starter and 1 OL starter in Rd1 & 2. Whatever order gives us the best combo of talent, Iím all for.
All depends on what happens in FA  
Bruner4329 : 1/12/2019 9:24 am : link
Tell me what we do in FA then you can answer this question more realistically. If we get one OL in FA like a LT then I go defensive line in Round 1. If not then I take BPA either side of the ball.
With the exception of RB I dont care what position they select.  
j_rud : 1/12/2019 9:30 am : link
The roster needs a serious influx of talent at virtually every position. We've seen what happens when you let need dictate the board. Thats how you end up with top 10 picks like Apple and Flowers. Those picks are a big reason this roster is in the shape its in and prioritizing a position is the first step in making that mistake again.

If the best player on the board at 6 and 38 are lineman then great. If theres a RB, WR, or TE graded slightly better but still comparable to the lineman thats OK too. But if the best lineman available at 38 has a late 3rd round grade and theres an edge rusher or safety available who matches that slot and they still go lineman then we're in for more of the same. Fortunately despite some questionable FA decisions I do trust Gettleman to draft well. He doesnt strike me as someone who "gets cute" or outsmarts himself.




If they are the best players on the board, then yes,  
barens : 1/12/2019 9:34 am : link
otherwise, no.
It will depend on how well the team does in Free Agency with  
Giants61 : 1/12/2019 9:41 am : link
acquiring a starter or two for the OL and/or defensive side. With that said I would be in favor of a BPA on the defensive side in the draft, probably an ER
We need help  
ChicagoMarty : 1/12/2019 9:49 am : link
at every position literally

Trust your board.
BPA  
JonC : 1/12/2019 9:55 am : link
Makes no sense to reach for positions unless they are BPA.
RE: BPA  
robbieballs2003 : 1/12/2019 9:59 am : link
In comment 14259272 JonC said:
Quote:
Makes no sense to reach for positions unless they are BPA.


But if they are BPA then you aren't reaching.


I'm just busting balls.
Unless they think Williams  
ryanmkeane : 1/12/2019 10:18 am : link
has potential to be a great LT, really makes no sense for him to go at 6. This draft has a ton of good lineman in that 25-50 range for our second pick.
Great  
djm : 1/12/2019 10:24 am : link
Letís ignore the front seven for another year! Who needs pass rushers and run stuffers.

We havenít drafted a front 7 attacker since JPP. This is the NY Giants. And people wonder why the defense canít get a stop... save for 2016.

Front 7!
I believe Edge Rusher is more likely  
Rafflee : 1/12/2019 10:28 am : link
QB, OL, Edge Rusher...I believe Edge is the most likely to be picked between rounds 1 and 2 combined.

The OL is easier to "find" or "Make".... QB????

Edge was always a Jedrry Reese emphasis...say what you will, it's the fastest way to impact a defense and the ebst way to make the other 10 defensive guys on your field "better players"
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 1/12/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14259190 short lease said:
Quote:
In comment 14259155 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


You can't really just go into a draft and say "we're going to draft two offensive linemen with our first two picks"

The draft is fluid - you have to be prepared for all sorts of different scenarios and have a plan in place for as many possibilities as you can.

I think Gettleman will certainly go in looking to beef up the OL as much as possible - but he's not going to forfeit value to force positional selections, nor should he.

That said - with the number of picks we have, I expect us to come out of this draft with about 2-3 more draft prospects for the OL and we might try to add depth via FA as well.

You can love or hate Dave Gettleman, but he's going to address the offensive line. Will he get the right players? We'll see - so far a mixed bad. Solder was better later in the year - so that doesn't look as bad as it did before. Omameh was horrendous. Hernandez got much better as the year progressed - he's a keeper.

Shurmur also went out of his way to praise Halapio the other day - I think he'll still be in the OL plans at least as depth once he's healthy again. He seemed to think Pulley played well later in the year, too. I didn't key in on him enough to know if he picked it up or not - but they seem to think he got a bit better and might be able to help going forward.



Arc - I can't help wondering if Solder's play improved as Hernandez started to learn his position and settled in a bit more than he was at the beginning of the season? The 2 at least had to develop some chemistry between them from time played together? .... agree with everything else you said.


I'm sure the chemistry aspect played a role, as it often does when offensive lines perform well.

Solder seems to be one of those guys that takes a few weeks to hit his stride. Apparently this was sort of a common theme with him in NE. Some slow starts, but better showings as the years progressed.

Hernandez really made strides. He was making a lot of mistakes early in the year but by Week 17, he really looked comfortable and should be a fixture @ OG here for the next 10 years if he can stay healthy.
...  
christian : 1/12/2019 11:12 am : link
Jrud nails it -- there isn't a position outside of RB that isn't a need on this team.

If the Giants come away with any other position addressed in the top 2 rounds they've addressed a hole.
That strategy leads to Ereck Flowers..  
Sean : 1/12/2019 11:14 am : link
This team needs a lot - go BPA. Donít reach for need.

Also, donít focus everything on the defense. The last time we used all resources on improving the defense, the roster flipped where the defense was strong but offense below average. BPA.
RE: Great  
j_rud : 1/12/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14259294 djm said:
Quote:
Letís ignore the front seven for another year! Who needs pass rushers and run stuffers.

We havenít drafted a front 7 attacker since JPP. This is the NY Giants. And people wonder why the defense canít get a stop... save for 2016.

Front 7!


And what happens when you're sitting there at 6 and the top front 7 players are all gone? The next edge rusher on your board has a mid to late first round grade, and Jonah Williams or some other OL is sitting there who you have a top 10 grade on?

I'm all for improving the front 7 but that's not how you do it. You talk yourself into taking a lesser prospect be the need is there and 3 years later the unit hasn't improved and you have yet another first round pick who's looking at getting his 2nd contract from another team, not to mention the OL still needs to be upgraded. Does need factor in? Of course, when you're talking about two similarly graded prospects. But when you weigh the need too heavily that's why you end up cutting and trading guys in the middle of another abysmal season, like we saw this past year.
Continue to emphasize the OL  
AcesUp : 1/12/2019 11:23 am : link
We clearly want to win in the trenches, that's the team we want to build. BPA with an emphasis on those units. We invested a huge resource last year into Barkley, stay the course. OL should continue to be a priority. This may mean a slight "overdraft" or "overspend" but it is necessary if you're committed to building a team identity.
rounds 2-4 for OL  
Steve in South Jersey : 1/12/2019 12:00 pm : link
I think DG is good at finding OL. Feel like he would find some gems after the 1st round.
It would be a bad strategy  
BillT : 1/12/2019 12:53 pm : link
What if the OT you want gets picked before 6. Are you going to reach for the next best OT or just concede and play Wheeler again at RT next year. And what if the OL you wanted in the 2nd is gone. Going to reach again or play Nick Gates at RG. The Giants have zero [players at RT and RG. You can't wait for the draft and hope you get who you want and that they're NFL ready day one. You have to fill immediate needs in FA.
Nay....the strength of the draft is DL, Edge and LB  
edavisiii : 1/12/2019 1:02 pm : link
go with the strength, One of the elite defenders will fall to us and there will be some good Leftovers at 38. If we sign Daryl Williams as I have been calling for since December we will have a better line if Brown is resigned and Halapio is healthy. We will have 6 picks in rounds 4 and 5. Find an interior OL and a Swing Tackle to give Wheeler competition. Deihl was a 5, they can be found...I would not spend a 6th pick on an OL unless he as a stud LT!
Nay, whereas " OL 1,2,3 "  
idiotsavant : 1/12/2019 1:18 pm : link
Was my mantra off and on for (since before you were born basically).

This year it's "DL, OLB, ILB, FS, repeat."

For reasons stated already.
They MUST get some OL help one way or another.  
Red Dog : 1/12/2019 2:01 pm : link
Free agency could be part of the answer, but championship teams are built mostly through the draft.

So they have to get a couple of realistic OL prospects in the draft this spring, and one or two more next spring.

Ideally one this spring would be a Tackle in the first or second round and another would be an interior line pick on the third day. But they can't force these because we all know that reaching for a player almost never works out. That means some creative trading to move picks around might be needed, and DG has plenty of ammo for this with all those extra day three picks they are going to have.

I am looking forward to an entertaining draft weekend in April.
Red Dog  
cosmicj : 1/12/2019 2:12 pm : link
Completely agree. The Center class is supposed to be intriguing. Iím waiting to see if any exciting prospects at that position emerge in the early rd 2 range as the scouting process unfolds.
DL and OL are considered an area where  
TMS : 1/12/2019 2:40 pm : link
`DG has had success in the past, and what he believes is the way to build a team. Think we are big players in this draft and in FA if we can get ELI to restructure for more cap $$$ now.
Defense  
PaulN : 1/12/2019 3:00 pm : link
Round 1 and 2, unless we get our franchise QB, then it's defense round 2. Round 4 with 3 picks you can add the linebackers and maybe another guard. Round 5 with 3 picks maybe another linebacker, free safety and tight end, 2 way tight end who can block. Engram should be a slot receiver. We need pass rushers desperately.
1,2 defense.  
idiotsavant : 1/12/2019 3:38 pm : link
Expect to trade some of those 4,5,6 to go up into high 2nd or 3rd.

Giving you:

6
35?
38

Plus whatever is left after the trade up...i would still go D with the first 3.

Maybe Target OL with one of the remaining 4th (or is it only a 5th) plus your big free agent splash.
RE: RE: They need to use their  
allstarjim : 1/12/2019 3:49 pm : link
In comment 14259163 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14259159 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Premium picks on pass rushers. Hoping for a 5-tech and Edge with the first two picks, in any order.

I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.


Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.

The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.



I think you are dreaming if we trade down a few spots to obtain another 2nd or 3rd and future 1st.


The point wasn't to posit the literal trade, just the idea.

Last year, however, the Jets traded up just 3 spots and, in addition to their original 1st rounder, also sent two 2018 2nds and a 2019 2nd. That's a first and three seconds to move up just three spots. I think a return of a 2020 first and an extra pick or two, one of them being a premium pick in 2019 as well (2nd or 3rd). That's realistic.
Would rather get TWO GOOD FA Olinemen  
giantstock : 1/12/2019 9:53 pm : link
Than draft.
Until Barkley gets an OL in front of him,  
Doomster : 1/12/2019 10:46 pm : link
we are just wasting him.....and if we are going to waste him, why did we draft him?

Get a freakin' OL in front of him....
RE: Until Barkley gets an OL in front of him,  
Deejboy : 1/13/2019 12:05 am : link
In comment 14260232 Doomster said:
Quote:
we are just wasting him.....and if we are going to waste him, why did we draft him?

Get a freakin' OL in front of him....

Wow, such well thought out analysis.
Agree that free agency is the way to go on OL  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2019 7:54 am : link
But, maybe add one great, or two better players. No sense just random jags.
RE: They need to use their  
TheMick7 : 1/13/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14259159 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Premium picks on pass rushers. Hoping for a 5-tech and Edge with the first two picks, in any order.

I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.


Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.

The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.


By the time the draft comes in April, Daniel Jones will be a first round pick. Kid has all the measurables & will go relatively high as he & Haskins will be in high demand!
My guess is that out RT and RG will improve  
idiotsavant : 1/13/2019 8:16 am : link
In the unit. After a revolving door at Center that's where I would put all the chips. But as by far the most myopic bbi 'draft the ol' poster since...forever, I would not mind more. I mean, how many years ago...was it... I was alone here saying 'go OL 1st,2nd,3rd rounds'?

It's just; you look at the market and play into it. And, draft wise that looks like D,D and D...and D..
RE: RE: They need to use their  
allstarjim : 1/14/2019 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14260482 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
In comment 14259159 allstarjim said:


Quote:


Premium picks on pass rushers. Hoping for a 5-tech and Edge with the first two picks, in any order.

I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.


Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.

The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.



By the time the draft comes in April, Daniel Jones will be a first round pick. Kid has all the measurables & will go relatively high as he & Haskins will be in high demand!


It's possible but I'm not as certain as you are. You have, in my opinion, 4 QBs that "might" be first rounders. I don't think all 4 will go in the first round, however. I think at most this year, only two goes in the first. But which two, I have no idea. I think if I were placing odds I'd have Haskins with the best chance of going in the first. The other QBs being Jones, Lock, and Grier. I would rather the Giants take one of those guys at their 2nd round pick and be in position to take another guy they love in the 2020 draft in the first round (hopefully if they have a chance at one of the top guys), and then let the competition play itself out.

You're going to have Herbert, Tua, Fromm, Shea Patterson, K.J. Costello, perhaps Jacob Eason...Giants should go back to back in using a premium pick on QB to try and find Eli's replacement because there is no greater challenge or impact to this team than getting that position right for the next era of Giants' football.

But in terms of this year, I think Daniel Jones could go in the first, but I also think Drew Lock could go in the first. I think, somewhat less likely, that Will Grier could go in the first. But I don't think all 4 will, someone's going to slip probably two of them, and if the Giants have a shot in the 2nd, that would probably be the right time to get a guy.
Also, for everyone who thinks  
allstarjim : 1/14/2019 1:36 pm : link
we just MUST get a free safety out of the draft...

2016 the Giants had the 2nd best defense in the NFL.

Starting free safety was Andrew Adams. If there's a position on the defense that you can just get by with by putting a jag-type of player there, it's free safety. They need to get much better up front, and get some corner help.
Getts seems to value potential greata  
idiotsavant : 1/14/2019 1:53 pm : link
Barks, Hernandez, maybe even carter.

Don't ignore the market. The market is telling you to stick at 6, also to stockpile 2nd rounders (possibly trading this drafts extra picks or late rounders) and vacuum up D prospects, mostly front 7ers.

That informs (or outlines in
reverse) your 2019 free agency strategy, and your 2020 research plan.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner