OT Jonah Williams (Alabama) at 6 and potentially trading back up into round 1 for OG Beau Benzschawel (Wisconsin)
Jamon Brown is a UFA. RT is a major concern. Weve all seen the transformation of the Colts after Nelson and Smith.
Not getting into QB discussion here. Pass rush crew will damn this idea and want to attack the strength of the draft at DL, which is understandable.
We could still look at options later on with so many picks.
What say you?
Edwards for RT?
I'm probably being a dick but I hate that phrase "developmental". How many developmental OL have we had over the yeara? Too mamy to count. How many worked out? None. This is the NFL not MLB. We don't have a farm system. We need guys to play and be ready to play. I know in the past we have had horrible success with all draft picks but mostly in the mid to late rounds but we are conditioned to think like that. I think Gettleman deserves the benefit of the doubt with using these picks on useful players.
Nelson was pick #6 and he's an All Pro as a rookie. If you told me we could get a rookie who ends up as an All Pro I'd sign up for that right now and especially if it was at one of our positions of greatest need.
I'm not saying Williams is in that class because I don't know but just that I think a player like Nelson proves 6 isn't too high for an OL.
Apologies for the post above.
The OL isnt that far away.. the defense however is VERY far away
Assume this is sarcasm.
The draft is fluid - you have to be prepared for all sorts of different scenarios and have a plan in place for as many possibilities as you can.
I think Gettleman will certainly go in looking to beef up the OL as much as possible - but he's not going to forfeit value to force positional selections, nor should he.
That said - with the number of picks we have, I expect us to come out of this draft with about 2-3 more draft prospects for the OL and we might try to add depth via FA as well.
You can love or hate Dave Gettleman, but he's going to address the offensive line. Will he get the right players? We'll see - so far a mixed bad. Solder was better later in the year - so that doesn't look as bad as it did before. Omameh was horrendous. Hernandez got much better as the year progressed - he's a keeper.
Shurmur also went out of his way to praise Halapio the other day - I think he'll still be in the OL plans at least as depth once he's healthy again. He seemed to think Pulley played well later in the year, too. I didn't key in on him enough to know if he picked it up or not - but they seem to think he got a bit better and might be able to help going forward.
Freudian slip?
I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.
Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.
The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.
I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.
Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.
The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.
I think you are dreaming if we trade down a few spots to obtain another 2nd or 3rd and future 1st.
the 2nd round .
If we can keep Vernon and get the best edge available at #6, that would HELP !
The draft is fluid - you have to be prepared for all sorts of different scenarios and have a plan in place for as many possibilities as you can.
I think Gettleman will certainly go in looking to beef up the OL as much as possible - but he's not going to forfeit value to force positional selections, nor should he.
That said - with the number of picks we have, I expect us to come out of this draft with about 2-3 more draft prospects for the OL and we might try to add depth via FA as well.
You can love or hate Dave Gettleman, but he's going to address the offensive line. Will he get the right players? We'll see - so far a mixed bad. Solder was better later in the year - so that doesn't look as bad as it did before. Omameh was horrendous. Hernandez got much better as the year progressed - he's a keeper.
Shurmur also went out of his way to praise Halapio the other day - I think he'll still be in the OL plans at least as depth once he's healthy again. He seemed to think Pulley played well later in the year, too. I didn't key in on him enough to know if he picked it up or not - but they seem to think he got a bit better and might be able to help going forward.
Arc - I can't help wondering if Solder's play improved as Hernandez started to learn his position and settled in a bit more than he was at the beginning of the season? The 2 at least had to develop some chemistry between them from time played together? .... agree with everything else you said.
According to the talking heads, there should be a lot of OL value in rounds 2-4.
Having said that, we don't what the Giants will be able to address through free angency.
On the bright, the Beagles have some difficult decisions coming once again, as they are currently $12M over the cap)
And the 5th year option for a player picked out of the Top 10 but still in the first is a benefit greater than what the late round picks will deliver.
I've been going back and forth. I recognize the strength of the draft and our need to address the pass rush. But the futility of the OL has been nearly a decade. Some may say that OL can be found in later rounds and DG has done that with the Panthers. But the Giants have been unable to develop late round prospects since forever, and I don't think Hal is the one to do it. We either pay up in FA or draft highly rated prospects in the early rounds.
I would have no problem though saying that we will NOT select a certain position with our #1 pick. CB, WR and TE for example are not a good idea for us this year at the 7th position.
Personally I m more concerned about long term planning which is why I m hoping they deem Haskins as worthy of the 6th pick.
This team has holes in many areas and they should be able to fill one of them at #6 with a talented prospect if they can avoid reaching for position like they did with Flowers.
The selection of Barkley last year gives me hope that this regime gets it. Take what the board gives you. Don't leave talent on the board.
If Williams isnt there at #6 what do you do? Just take the next best offensive lineman on your board, even if he is #22 on your board? You just traded back with no compensation for doing so! If a trade is there to be made, great, but that is not often the case.
Stack your board base on your scouting, and take the best players available. Aside from RB its not like this team is really set anywhere talent wise. If grades are close you lean toward position of higher value/need, but its a mistake to just say the first two picks will be used on the Oline.
QB, ER, RT, LB, FS, CB, WR, C and LT.
We are basically the "poster child" for BPA-strategy...
If the best player on the board at 6 and 38 are lineman then great. If theres a RB, WR, or TE graded slightly better but still comparable to the lineman thats OK too. But if the best lineman available at 38 has a late 3rd round grade and theres an edge rusher or safety available who matches that slot and they still go lineman then we're in for more of the same. Fortunately despite some questionable FA decisions I do trust Gettleman to draft well. He doesnt strike me as someone who "gets cute" or outsmarts himself.
Trust your board.
But if they are BPA then you aren't reaching.
I'm just busting balls.
We havent drafted a front 7 attacker since JPP. This is the NY Giants. And people wonder why the defense cant get a stop... save for 2016.
Front 7!
The OL is easier to "find" or "Make".... QB????
Edge was always a Jedrry Reese emphasis...say what you will, it's the fastest way to impact a defense and the ebst way to make the other 10 defensive guys on your field "better players"
Quote:
You can't really just go into a draft and say "we're going to draft two offensive linemen with our first two picks"
The draft is fluid - you have to be prepared for all sorts of different scenarios and have a plan in place for as many possibilities as you can.
I think Gettleman will certainly go in looking to beef up the OL as much as possible - but he's not going to forfeit value to force positional selections, nor should he.
That said - with the number of picks we have, I expect us to come out of this draft with about 2-3 more draft prospects for the OL and we might try to add depth via FA as well.
You can love or hate Dave Gettleman, but he's going to address the offensive line. Will he get the right players? We'll see - so far a mixed bad. Solder was better later in the year - so that doesn't look as bad as it did before. Omameh was horrendous. Hernandez got much better as the year progressed - he's a keeper.
Shurmur also went out of his way to praise Halapio the other day - I think he'll still be in the OL plans at least as depth once he's healthy again. He seemed to think Pulley played well later in the year, too. I didn't key in on him enough to know if he picked it up or not - but they seem to think he got a bit better and might be able to help going forward.
Arc - I can't help wondering if Solder's play improved as Hernandez started to learn his position and settled in a bit more than he was at the beginning of the season? The 2 at least had to develop some chemistry between them from time played together? .... agree with everything else you said.
I'm sure the chemistry aspect played a role, as it often does when offensive lines perform well.
Solder seems to be one of those guys that takes a few weeks to hit his stride. Apparently this was sort of a common theme with him in NE. Some slow starts, but better showings as the years progressed.
Hernandez really made strides. He was making a lot of mistakes early in the year but by Week 17, he really looked comfortable and should be a fixture @ OG here for the next 10 years if he can stay healthy.
If the Giants come away with any other position addressed in the top 2 rounds they've addressed a hole.
Also, dont focus everything on the defense. The last time we used all resources on improving the defense, the roster flipped where the defense was strong but offense below average. BPA.
We havent drafted a front 7 attacker since JPP. This is the NY Giants. And people wonder why the defense cant get a stop... save for 2016.
Front 7!
And what happens when you're sitting there at 6 and the top front 7 players are all gone? The next edge rusher on your board has a mid to late first round grade, and Jonah Williams or some other OL is sitting there who you have a top 10 grade on?
I'm all for improving the front 7 but that's not how you do it. You talk yourself into taking a lesser prospect be the need is there and 3 years later the unit hasn't improved and you have yet another first round pick who's looking at getting his 2nd contract from another team, not to mention the OL still needs to be upgraded. Does need factor in? Of course, when you're talking about two similarly graded prospects. But when you weigh the need too heavily that's why you end up cutting and trading guys in the middle of another abysmal season, like we saw this past year.
This year it's "DL, OLB, ILB, FS, repeat."
For reasons stated already.
So they have to get a couple of realistic OL prospects in the draft this spring, and one or two more next spring.
Ideally one this spring would be a Tackle in the first or second round and another would be an interior line pick on the third day. But they can't force these because we all know that reaching for a player almost never works out. That means some creative trading to move picks around might be needed, and DG has plenty of ammo for this with all those extra day three picks they are going to have.
I am looking forward to an entertaining draft weekend in April.
Giving you:
6
35?
38
Plus whatever is left after the trade up...i would still go D with the first 3.
Maybe Target OL with one of the remaining 4th (or is it only a 5th) plus your big free agent splash.
Quote:
Premium picks on pass rushers. Hoping for a 5-tech and Edge with the first two picks, in any order.
I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.
Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.
The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.
I think you are dreaming if we trade down a few spots to obtain another 2nd or 3rd and future 1st.
The point wasn't to posit the literal trade, just the idea.
Last year, however, the Jets traded up just 3 spots and, in addition to their original 1st rounder, also sent two 2018 2nds and a 2019 2nd. That's a first and three seconds to move up just three spots. I think a return of a 2020 first and an extra pick or two, one of them being a premium pick in 2019 as well (2nd or 3rd). That's realistic.
Get a freakin' OL in front of him....
Get a freakin' OL in front of him....
Wow, such well thought out analysis.
I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.
Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.
The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.
By the time the draft comes in April, Daniel Jones will be a first round pick. Kid has all the measurables & will go relatively high as he & Haskins will be in high demand!
It's just; you look at the market and play into it. And, draft wise that looks like D,D and D...and D..
Quote:
Premium picks on pass rushers. Hoping for a 5-tech and Edge with the first two picks, in any order.
I am really hoping for a trade down from 6 at least a few spots to pick up an extra 2nd or third and a 2020 1st.
Then take the two defensive players with the first two picks, get BPA out of corner or OT, then start BPA'ing the hell out of the rest of the draft with defensive players and OL.
The one deviation I would make from that is is the Giants got lucky and a QB like David Jones was sitting at 38. Think you have to take a signal caller in that instance, but I would still try to use my first rounder in 2020 on the best possible QB I could as early in the draft as I could.
By the time the draft comes in April, Daniel Jones will be a first round pick. Kid has all the measurables & will go relatively high as he & Haskins will be in high demand!
It's possible but I'm not as certain as you are. You have, in my opinion, 4 QBs that "might" be first rounders. I don't think all 4 will go in the first round, however. I think at most this year, only two goes in the first. But which two, I have no idea. I think if I were placing odds I'd have Haskins with the best chance of going in the first. The other QBs being Jones, Lock, and Grier. I would rather the Giants take one of those guys at their 2nd round pick and be in position to take another guy they love in the 2020 draft in the first round (hopefully if they have a chance at one of the top guys), and then let the competition play itself out.
You're going to have Herbert, Tua, Fromm, Shea Patterson, K.J. Costello, perhaps Jacob Eason...Giants should go back to back in using a premium pick on QB to try and find Eli's replacement because there is no greater challenge or impact to this team than getting that position right for the next era of Giants' football.
But in terms of this year, I think Daniel Jones could go in the first, but I also think Drew Lock could go in the first. I think, somewhat less likely, that Will Grier could go in the first. But I don't think all 4 will, someone's going to slip probably two of them, and if the Giants have a shot in the 2nd, that would probably be the right time to get a guy.
2016 the Giants had the 2nd best defense in the NFL.
Starting free safety was Andrew Adams. If there's a position on the defense that you can just get by with by putting a jag-type of player there, it's free safety. They need to get much better up front, and get some corner help.
Don't ignore the market. The market is telling you to stick at 6, also to stockpile 2nd rounders (possibly trading this drafts extra picks or late rounders) and vacuum up D prospects, mostly front 7ers.
That informs (or outlines in
reverse) your 2019 free agency strategy, and your 2020 research plan.