Seriously Barkley is a great player but I don’t want to kill the guy.. How long will he last getting 300 carries and catching 100 balls . I hope the Giants draft a Rb to compete with Gallman and take some of the load off Saquon.
We have a plethora of 4th and 5th round picks I would use 1 on a RB...
I like Bryce Love despite his injury. Any other names you all like
If the Giants are going to build an old school running team (which I'm praying they are) - you need a stable.
An underrated aspect of Barkley's game is his size. He's 230 easily.
Yup - I think WR is a bigger need than RB with mid-round picks. We did OK with some depth guys behind OBJ and Shep in 2018, but could use a talent upgrade behind them.
And we need talent and depth all over the defense.
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want to give Barkley a breather, until the team actually does that.
Don't you guys remember the posts about using Gallman for an entire series being called incompetence of Shumur?
Yes.. I was laughing at those comments. Then, you see Barkley breathing heavily on the sidelines while Gallman is taking his first snap.
People here dont realize that the kid also was playing his first fill NFL season which is longer than a college season. It is known that rookies sometimes hit a wall in December.
Don’t forget about all the hits you take when you’re getting 400 touches a season
Saquon and AB in the same backfield.. Scary
If a great value presented itself ok but I'd hope only a late draft resource like a 6th or 7th would be used.
Don't you guys remember the posts about using Gallman for an entire series being called incompetence of Shumur?
I'd see those rants in the game threads, and just shake my head.
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But other needs right now.
Ol
ER
Lb
FS
Cb (depth)
Qb
All come first
Don’t under estimate a RB.. Saquons workload is something to keep an eye on... 400 touches is a lot, how long will Barkley’s career be if he has to handle that type of workload
Except he didn't have 400 touches. He had 352 or 22 per game. I don't think that's excessive. Especially for a guy in the shape he's in
Like Phillip Lindsay of the Broncos.
There isn't that much that is "usual" about Lindsay.
What is amazing, however, is that he was the ONLY other halfback on the roster for the bulk of the season. And despite that fact, he only had 51 carries.
I'm not sure I have ever seen the Giants rely on one running back like they did with Barkley in 2018. Pretty amazing.
What is amazing, however, is that he was the ONLY other halfback on the roster for the bulk of the season. And despite that fact, he only had 51 carries.
I'm not sure I have ever seen the Giants rely on one running back like they did with Barkley in 2018. Pretty amazing.
And even then, Eric - how many posters were bitching during games about Barkley not being in for some plays?
What is amazing, however, is that he was the ONLY other halfback on the roster for the bulk of the season. And despite that fact, he only had 51 carries.
I'm not sure I have ever seen the Giants rely on one running back like they did with Barkley in 2018. Pretty amazing.
Tiki had a volumnous 2005.
Love in the fifth would be great value IMO
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I like Gallman.
What is amazing, however, is that he was the ONLY other halfback on the roster for the bulk of the season. And despite that fact, he only had 51 carries.
I'm not sure I have ever seen the Giants rely on one running back like they did with Barkley in 2018. Pretty amazing.
Tiki had a volumnous 2005.
Yes, but he also had Brandon Jacobs (38 carries) and Derrick Ward (35 carries) behind him. While Tiki had way more carries than Saquon, the Giants had more insurance behind him. I can't recall a season where the Giants only had two halfbacks on the roster.
Also they had Penny, who carried the ball ok in a few attempts.
Gallman is a very good back. He just needs to get the ball more to show it.
Penny is a converted tailback who can play there if needed.
I've never been very impressed with Paul Perkins, but he's not garbage either.
Martin looks to have some talent and could make the 53 next fall.
And adequate free agent RBs are a dime a dozen.
With so many needs elsewhere, drafting a running back this year should not even be a consideration.
Gallman is a very good back. He just needs to get the ball more to show it.
Penny is a converted tailback who can play there if needed.
I've never been very impressed with Paul Perkins, but he's not garbage either.
Martin looks to have some talent and could make the 53 next fall.
And adequate free agent RBs are a dime a dozen.
With so many needs elsewhere, drafting a running back this year should not even be a consideration.
Red Dog... Penny is an interesting guy. He doesn't have classic (Charles Way) fullback size, but he can block, run, and catch the ball. Maybe I'm being too much of a homer, but I liked the way he blocked people.
Perkins is a weird situation. He actually had a decent rookie season (our running game picked up at the end of 2016 with him, and he actually started that playoff game). But his sophomore season was a disaster.
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RBs are usually in abundance every year in the draft, or even in the undrafted pool.
Like Phillip Lindsay of the Broncos.
There isn't that much that is "usual" about Lindsay.
The point is supply. Lindsay is another quality RB found in any draft. That's what makes is "usual".
Agreed. He only had 261 rushes or a little over 16 per game.
Any of those coming out this year?
Saquon does everything well, hard to think of a situation where you can replace him with a specialist as good or better.
I swear, nothing is ever good enough for some people. Or they just like to bitch and moan about EVERYTHING.
Like Phillip Lindsay of the Broncos.
How many do you have to go through to find a Lindsay? Giants have been terrible at developing RB's since Bradshaw, so i'm not really sure what your point is.
How many do you have to go through to find a Lindsay? Giants have been terrible at developing RB's since Bradshaw, so i'm not really sure what your point is.
I don't think it's about 'developing' RBs so much as not having an offensive line since 2011. Did Coughlin and Ingram forget how to develop RBs after Jacobs, Bradshaw, and Derrick Ward were throwing up 1000 yard years left and right? Or did the OL just get awful and not allow them to run the ball?
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RBs are usually in abundance every year in the draft, or even in the undrafted pool.
Like Phillip Lindsay of the Broncos.
How many do you have to go through to find a Lindsay? Giants have been terrible at developing RB's since Bradshaw, so i'm not really sure what your point is.
His point is that we shouldn't have taken Barkley. That "Jints Central" made a mistake. When has that ever not been his point? Except when he took those "vacations" when the Giants won those two Super Bowls. Amirite, bw?
Tell Michael it was only business. I always liked him.
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RBs are usually in abundance every year in the draft, or even in the undrafted pool.
Like Phillip Lindsay of the Broncos.
How many do you have to go through to find a Lindsay? Giants have been terrible at developing RB's since Bradshaw, so i'm not really sure what your point is.
Lindsay was just a recent example that I figured most would recognize. As usual, I misunderstood the audience.
I could have picked CJ Anderson or Damian Williams. I could added a few 4th rounders like Marian Mack and James White. The point, again, is every year there are competent, hidden gem RB available later in the draft or after the draft. That's all.
His point is that we shouldn't have taken Barkley. That "Jints Central" made a mistake. When has that ever not been his point? Except when he took those "vacations" when the Giants won those two Super Bowls. Amirite, bw?
Well, that's a separate topic. I'm trying to keep my New Year's resolution and be more empathetic to Jints Central because they have such good intentions... ;)
Once again...this should be Jonathan Stewart who is already on the roster and basically paid for.
I mean are those players competent, or simply on the field?
You can plug in most 5th round WR's and get 70% the production of an WR1.
Way too often people confuse that a RB still will gain some yards with the idea they have replaced the starter with little to no dropoff. And some confuse even more that some systems are difficult for mediocre RB's to do anything in. I mean, the Lions can plug any old schlub in the backfield if all they are going to get is 500 yards rushing.
When Zeke Elliott missed games for the Cowboys, his replacements had 65% of the production. And the team lost games. When Fournette was out, the team had a dropoff in production and they lost games. But you literall have had posters here see an unheralded guy have a good game and then talk about finding RB's on trees.
Do they say this when Tra'qon Smith has a 3TD game? What about Kenny Golladay? What about a Paul Richardson who makes a few big grabs for the Seahawks and then does little after that?
It is a false narrative that probably only gets referenced here so often because we picked Barkley instead of Darnold, which basically is the motivation for so many shitty posts it has gone long past the point of being humorous
The Rams just picked CJ Anderson off the scrap heap and he's been running wild. And that's with an extra 20-25 lbs of girth.
They can be taller, or shorter by I sure had C. J. Anderson envy this past weekend, a thickly built RB who runs with bad intentions and punishes tacklers.
As has been pointed out, you don't necessarily need to draft someone for this role, and their are interesting prospects who will likely wind up as UDFA's, or 6th or 7th round picks.
Of course, we all know the OL needs improvement, and a major beneficiary of that will be the ground game, but if Shurmur and company would like to have the capability I described, I think they're still short 1 RB.
For me, he's never passed the eyeball test at RB going back to Clemson, i.e. he doesn't get his team anything but what's there. You guys calling him a "good backup" what are you seeing?
Over 162 carries as a Giant his longest run is 24 yards and his longest pass reception (among 48 receptions) is 21 yards. In other words he has below average speed and/or elusiveness and/or ability to break tackles. Among all his touches he has only 2 TDs, one rushing one receiving. That's 210 touches and 2 TDs. He's only had 1 reception over 20 yards, and 2 runs over 20. He doesn't have a single play over 40 yards.
That is over 210 total touches.
Barkley in just over 350 touches, had 21 plays over 20 yards and 9 over 40. I don't know if that means a total of 30 plays over 20 yards or not; but either way the difference in production is striking.
In math terms: with 68% more touches than Gallman, Barkley's had 1000% more plays over 20 yards (30 instead of 3) if the figures are added, and 700% more plays if the 40+ yard plays are already included among the 20+, which I guess they are not. (Anyone know that please tell.)
OK I don't expect anything like a Barkley clone as his backup, but someone better than Gallman isn't asking for the moon IMO.
I wonder what McKinnon's stats were as AP's backup in Minny.
That said, Barkley is still our best player and a great talent. We need to be building around him, and I think despite his overall stats we failed to do that in 2018.
I'm all for throwing Barkley the football, but how many of his 91 catches were dumpoffs on 3rd and long that didn't get a first down? Looking back at his reference page, he didn't appear to have as much positive impact as a receiver as he probably should have. Here are the games where he got 10+ targets:
- @ Dallas: 16 targets, 14 receptions in a 20-13 loss...this game stands out in my memory as a stat padder after the game was out of hand in the fourth quarter
- Philly: 12 targets, 9 receptions in a 34-13 loss
- @ Atlanta: 10 targets, 9 receptions in a 23-20 loss
- Washington: 10 targets, 9 receptions in a 20-13 loss
- Tennessee: 10 targets, 4 receptions in a 17-0 loss
Looking at these numbers and remembering how these games played out, I don't think we properly utilized him in the passing game. I think he caught a lot of passes as a check down option rather than as a focal point of the offense. He caught a lot of passes, but I think a lot of those plays ended up being wins for the defense.
If I'm right, I can't stress this enough: that is on Shurmur. His strength is supposed to be the design of the offense and getting the ball to our best players in a way to maximize their successes. Barkley is our best player by a bit...he needs to be the featured guy in both the running and passing game. There's a huge difference between being a check down option on 3rd and long and being a focal point of the passing offense.
This occurred to me yesterday watching the way the Saints utilize Kamara. That guy isn't just catching check downs on 3rd and long. They're getting him the ball where he can convert first downs as a primary receiving option.
Barkley is right there with Kamara as a receiving talent...but watching the two in their respective offenses is night and day.
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I could have picked CJ Anderson or Damian Williams. I could added a few 4th rounders like Marian Mack and James White. The point, again, is every year there are competent, hidden gem RB available later in the draft or after the draft. That's all.
I mean are those players competent, or simply on the field?
You can plug in most 5th round WR's and get 70% the production of an WR1.
Way too often people confuse that a RB still will gain some yards with the idea they have replaced the starter with little to no dropoff. And some confuse even more that some systems are difficult for mediocre RB's to do anything in. I mean, the Lions can plug any old schlub in the backfield if all they are going to get is 500 yards rushing.
When Zeke Elliott missed games for the Cowboys, his replacements had 65% of the production. And the team lost games. When Fournette was out, the team had a dropoff in production and they lost games. But you literall have had posters here see an unheralded guy have a good game and then talk about finding RB's on trees.
Do they say this when Tra'qon Smith has a 3TD game? What about Kenny Golladay? What about a Paul Richardson who makes a few big grabs for the Seahawks and then does little after that?
It is a false narrative that probably only gets referenced here so often because we picked Barkley instead of Darnold, which basically is the motivation for so many shitty posts it has gone long past the point of being humorous
There were lots of things wrong with the cowboys and jags that led to them losing games. Zeke is certainly important to what the cowboys do because he's pretty inarguably their best player and they've been trying to be a passing team when they're not suited for it. Jags, I wouldn't put Fournette in Zeke's class.
I don't think anyone does it with WRs, because we generally have a lot less history of WRs coming out of nowhere to give you very competent production. Smith and Golladay were third round picks, so I don't think they're really out of the blue. You expect your 3rd rounders to be NFL players at minimum.
We have Barkley, we have Gallman. Anyone else can be had off waivers.
This team has so many holes. Wasting a cost-controlled chance on a player whose ceiling is competing to be the back-up at a typically-interchangeable position is nuts.
You don't even have to go back to Wayne Chrebet or even the time since Wes Welker and Julian Edelman have been around for the Pats.
Victor Cruz was undrafted.
Adam Thielen was undrafted.
Stefon Diggs was a 5th rounder
Adam Humphries was undrafted
Tyreek Hill was a 5th rounder
Heck, if you look at the Top 20 WR's this year, there are as many 3rd rounders on the list as 1st rounders.
It isn't brought up often because it isn't really a talking point. The reason the RB discussion took the forefront is because you had a ton of posters trying to reconcile in their minds how we could pass on a QB.
So many terrible discussions have evolved from posters simply losing their shit.