Giants 8-24.
Giants 0-4 vs. Dal/Philly.
Eagles Division title.
Eagles Super Bowl title.
Cowboys Division title.
Cowboys Playoff victory.
We just saw what hell looks like but now we're on our way out.
Hopefully today is a new start. Here's to a solid offseason to get this thing turned around.
* young and improving O line
* high/plentiful draft picks
* offensive firepower
* good run towards end of the season
Can't wait to see how Haskins, Jones and Grier go through the draft process.
It is a few years past time to move on, I am confident we will have a different qb leading us. For better or worse, its simply way overdue.
Rather than rise to mediocrity... I'd be perfectly willing to take a step back next year in one of two ways. Either using Eli as a filler to get to a QB in 2020, or assessing that there's a franchise QB in the 2019 class and putting him behind a veteran (Eli or a transitional QB) and working him in around mid-season.
I consider the historically bad OL the primary reason this team started 1-7, and essentially out of the playoff picture at the bye.
Where does the team stand?
The Giants do not have a starting caliber player on the roster for 3 of the 5 OL positions.
Nothing at center. I mean really, be honest, the Giants do not have an starting caliber center on the roster.
Nothing at RG. Do you like Jamon Brown? OK, maybe you do. But he's not signed. He's a UFA that was picked up on waivers. The Giants do not have a starting caliber RG on the roster.
Nothing at RT. I love Wheeler's effort. But he cannot be the starting RT next year. He got beat like a drum, game after game. The Giants do not have a starting caliber RT on the roster.
Here's the good news on the OL.
Solder at LT. He'll be here another year. That's probably all. There's no young LT waiting in the wings though, so he might be here longer. Solder is a placeholder, which is better than nothing.
All set at LG. Hernandez is young, hopefully a lot of good years ahead in a Giants uniform.
Gettleman said the OL needed to be fixed. There's one position fixed. That's it.
I'm hoping for the best, but next year could be really ugly once again. The line isn't fixed. And this past year was a pretty lame attempt to fix it.
Perhaps, along the lines of Terps comment, the relief of the season finally ending has morphed into unfounded optimism for next year.
The notion that ending the year strong carries over to the next season is just that, a notion. Besides, the Giants didn't end the year strong. I liked the Chicago win, a plus game for sure. The Redskins game was enjoyable, albeit against a downtrodden team. But fuck the Redskins anyway.
Then they got crushed by Tennessee. Followed by two late losses (Colts, Cowboys) where you just knew they were going to lose, despite having a late lead. How did 2018 end? 0-3, that's how.
There are huge roster issues for the Giants, on both sides of the ball.
Defense
Where's the pass rush? What about the at-best mediocre linebacking crew? The secondary is a mess. Who's playing corner? There isn't a decent safety under contract, SS or FS.
Offense
WR. Beckham and Shepard and who? Nobody under contract, that's for sure.
TE. Ellison has underwhelmed. Engram can be dynamite in the passing game but can't block very well.
C, RG, RT. As discussed above.
And QB. I don't even want to get into that.
The Giants played hard for this coach, thank God for that. Because the roster stunk. And that's the state of the team in a nutshell. The HC seems to be able to get his players to play. The locker room is much improved. But the roster stinks and is full of holes, very important holes at that.
Sorry to rain on the parade. But I lived through the 1970s and this doesn't feel much different.
We're in the same spot the Redskins always used to be: the offseason is more fun than the actual season itself. What a state of affairs.
The Giants are 5-19 against the Cowboys & Eagles since 2013. That is a fact & I’m hopeful this is a big theme in the offseason to figure out why this is & fix it going forward. Both these teams aren’t going away.
The Giants are 5-19 against the Cowboys & Eagles since 2013. That is a fact & I’m hopeful this is a big theme in the offseason to figure out why this is & fix it going forward. Both these teams aren’t going away.
They are miles ahead of us. The Eagles had every reason (hangover, losing Reich, injuries to QB, RB, entire secondary) to go in the tank this year, and still they almost won in New Orleans to go back to the NFCC.
Criticizing the Giants isn't pessimism. It's just observation of reality.
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year to year sport so we'll see. Life is too short to be pessimistic all the time.
Criticizing the Giants isn't pessimism. It's just observation of reality.
You have basically become a worse version of Doomster.
There's an undeniable metric to determine how well the team has performed: W-L record.
I don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure this 6 year stretch is the worst stretch of Giants football in 40 years at least. It's the worst most of us have ever seen in our lives as Giants fans.
Is that pessimism?
The Giants have had 1 good season in 6 years. The year to year thing has evaded them apparently.
The Eagles don't get credit for almost... They get credit for what they actually did. They actually made the playoffs, and won a playoff game on the road.
If you don't want to give them any credit for almost winning in New Orleans, I'm fine with that.
You used a key word there: hopefully. Has this group shown they deserve our hopefulness? I don't think they have. I think they deserve skepticism until proven otherwise.
And what you call bitching I'd call merely observing. The team sucks. I'm observing it sucks. I'm going to keep saying they suck until they don't suck anymore. Pretending otherwise isn't good for anybody.
Imagine if we pulled the plug on him after the '83 season because there wasn't enough immediate improvement?
And that was decades ago... when rosters didn't turn over as drastically as they do now.
No one will ever confuse Pat Shurmur and Bill Parcells - believe me, I know that. But still. Change doesn't always happen immediately in this league.
The Giants were horrible from 1964-1983 with very few exceptions. I think there might have been one winning season in that entire 20 year span.
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Ownership/front office/coaching is very solid in Philly as shitty as that is to admit. I think Dallas has a ceiling which will be reinforced by the Garrett/Dak contracts, but they’ll be competitive.
The Giants are 5-19 against the Cowboys & Eagles since 2013. That is a fact & I’m hopeful this is a big theme in the offseason to figure out why this is & fix it going forward. Both these teams aren’t going away.
They are miles ahead of us. The Eagles had every reason (hangover, losing Reich, injuries to QB, RB, entire secondary) to go in the tank this year, and still they almost won in New Orleans to go back to the NFCC.
The Saints made the mistake of resting most their guys week 17 when they had a bye. Eagles took advantage of that. That offensive line is cooked too. The Eagles are getting old. They didn't draft well the last two years. Unless they knock it out the park with the draft this year its hard to see them making playoffs. The Cowboys however probably have a legit two year window to win the Superbowl.
There's an undeniable metric to determine how well the team has performed: W-L record.
I don't have it in front of me, but I'm pretty sure this 6 year stretch is the worst stretch of Giants football in 40 years at least. It's the worst most of us have ever seen in our lives as Giants fans.
Is that pessimism?
Since 79-84, with 80-85 being just a game better than 13-18.
Take a look at the Giants roster, who is actually under contract for 2019. For me, it is clear that a few years of outstanding roster building is required to return this team to Super Bowl contender. I'll call 2018 a plus year for roster building. The draft yield looks promising, even excluding Barkley. So-called "cancers" are gone. On the down side, UFA signings were not particularly strong.
If 2019 is a similar effort, the Giants may compete for a playoff spot, such is the state of the NFL. But to get to that top tier, it's going to take more than good moves in 2018 and 2019 to get there. Just look at the roster. The players aren't there.
Coaching - I don't really want to get into that. I'm basically pro-Shurmer at this point, but the jury is still out, for sure.
BBI - Giants Roster - ( New Window )
Watching the playoffs is a reminder of how far behind we are in terms of coaching and management.
We aren't even close talent-wise to the teams that are still alive right now. All 4 teams have much better QB situations. All 4 teams have better offensive lines, and the Chiefs are the only one of the 4 with a defense on par with ours (and not in a good way) - and their defense actually showed up against IND.
Just Patrick Mahomes, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, and to a slightly lesser degree Jared Goff - are all quite a bit better than 37-38 year old Eli Manning.
Sure, I'd take all of Bill, McVay, Andy, and Payton over Shurmur in a heartbeat - but there's no doubt that the Giants are not on par with those teams talent-wise. The difference in the QB play between the Giants and Chiefs/Saints alone is astronomical.
Did the Colts become a well-run organization because they made the playoffs? The coaching jobs by Pedersen and Carroll were pretty glaringly poor, especially in abandoning the run.
Whether or not KC knew what they had with Mahomes, if they lose in the Championship game, you could raise valid issues on why they didn't spend more resources on their D.
I see teams that are more talented than us, yet knowing that 5-6 of the teams in the playoffs this year will likely miss it next year, that divide isn't unsurmountable.
It cannot be understated how a decade of poor drafting impacts a team.
That isn't necessarily poor coaching or management, it is being stuck using an unsustainable model that comes crashing down against a well-rounded opponent.
I see gaping holes at some of the most difficult positions to fill in the sport. That is QB, pass rush, and cornerback, not to mention the Oline still needs work. No matter how you feel about Eli, its undeniable that he has- at most- two seasons left. Once that plug is pulled, it may be difficult to truly compete again until that position is filled with a good young qb. Who knows when that happens and how long that will take. We are not talking about filling the running back position, or the second tight end, or third receiver, or a two down linebacker. We are talking about some of the core positions on the field.
At the end of the day the Giants are 8-24 over the past two years, and finished the year 0-3. There's not a whole lot of "positives" I take from that. Sure, the team didn't quit on Shurmur and perhaps that was a function of a "new" voice?
I believe change when I see it. And I will see it if the Giants open next year strong.
Watching the playoffs is a reminder of how far behind we are in terms of coaching and management.
What did you possibly pick up from the games this weekend that led you to a management problem?
If talent is the not the main problem.............
I see gaping holes at some of the most difficult positions to fill in the sport. That is QB, pass rush, and cornerback, not to mention the Oline still needs work. No matter how you feel about Eli, its undeniable that he has- at most- two seasons left. Once that plug is pulled, it may be difficult to truly compete again until that position is filled with a good young qb. Who knows when that happens and how long that will take. We are not talking about filling the running back position, or the second tight end, or third receiver, or a two down linebacker. We are talking about some of the core positions on the field.
At the end of the day the Giants are 8-24 over the past two years, and finished the year 0-3. There's not a whole lot of "positives" I take from that. Sure, the team didn't quit on Shurmur and perhaps that was a function of a "new" voice?
I believe change when I see it. And I will see it if the Giants open next year strong.
Well said. It seems to me that teams only take dramatic steps forward when they see a substantial increase in productivity at quarterback (e.g., Chiefs and Colts this year). Aside from teams with elite quarterback play, the largest share of teams are in that next echelon. Teams like the Cowboys and Ravens are the best examples this season of teams without elite quarterback play who were strong at other positions and got hot at the right time. But as we have seen these last two weeks, teams like that have severe limitations in terms of actually winning in the playoffs.
Now for the Giants, they have not even been in that next echelon these last two seasons. It is possible they could be there next year with a good off-season. But ultimately, even that 7-10 win limbo is not where teams want to be and getting there is not a prospect that it excites me all that much. It is just very difficult to be positive about the direction of the franchise without the quarterback in place.
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We need more talent, yes. But I think the root causes run deeper than simply the roster.
Watching the playoffs is a reminder of how far behind we are in terms of coaching and management.
What did you possibly pick up from the games this weekend that led you to a management problem?
If talent is the not the main problem.............
I might be wrong because I'm not inside the building, but from afar it doesn't look like the Giants operate in the same way these teams do. Belichick, Reid, and Payton are basically czars in their respective organizations, and if McVay doesn't already have that status he's well on his way. Adding in LA, each of the four teams standing appear to have a clear approach that runs through the team and is embodied in the head coach.
Shurmur's only been here a year, and he's clearly nowhere near those guys as a head coach, but even when Coughlin (who IS respected and has the pelts on the wall) was here he clearly wasn't running the whole show. It was him AND Accorsi (who didn't even want to hire him), then him AND Reese (and there were clearly differences between their philosophies).
Again, this is just from the outside looking in...but it doesn't appear to me that the teams that are currently successful (or in the Pats' case perpetually successful) are run with the same approach or structure as the Giants.
I watched mostly Giants games this year, as my interest in the NFL has waned a bit (mostly because of the Giants ineptitude) - sufficed to say this weekend's games were eye-opening for me. The top teams are playing a different sport than we are right now. I used to feel that way in 2003-2004 too, and things changed quickly. Hopefully history repeats.
I can.
I saw courage.
The courage, by the Rams, to go with a 30 year old head coach.
The courage, by the Colts, to jettison a legend, in order to tank a season so they could draft a generational QB in Luck.
And the courage, by the Chiefs, to aggressively move up in the 2017 draft and take their next franchise QB, Mahalloffame.
I remember you telling us all to have the courage to post ways with Strahan... in 1999! You'll forgive us if we don't all leap on the BW for GM bandwagon.
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year to year sport so we'll see. Life is too short to be pessimistic all the time.
The Giants have had 1 good season in 6 years. The year to year thing has evaded them apparently.
Not going to count the Reese years in there. His philosophy was to march out the same offensive line year after year and hope they eventually clicked. If Reese was still here, Erick Flowers would still be our starting left tackle.
Gettleman is not afraid to decide something isn't working and cut bait. So I have much more confidence in current front office to turn things around.
I watched mostly Giants games this year, as my interest in the NFL has waned a bit (mostly because of the Giants ineptitude) - sufficed to say this weekend's games were eye-opening for me. The top teams are playing a different sport than we are right now. I used to feel that way in 2003-2004 too, and things changed quickly. Hopefully history repeats.
The makings of the 2005-2011 run was really predicated on steady drafts starting in 2003. Between 03-10 the Giants were consistently netting 3 future starters a year via the draft.
I'm hoping 2017 was the contemporary 2003. I'd love that to be the bottom and this year representing the future of solid drafts. I'd like that to come with a rookie QB soon, but I'm not going to get hanged up on that.
I don't buy it's year to year league. I think it takes a good 3 drafts to build a cost-controlled core that you can spring a window from.
People watched the divisional matchups and apparently found a way to reinvent the wheel on how to play football. News to me.
the Cowboys and Eagles draft well. The Giants have not. Until the Giants draft well on a consistent basis, we are going to suck.
They had an awesome draft last year, and it looks like they have some young players. Oh wait, its a year to year league and no one is allowed to be happy Will Hernandez and B.J. Hill looked promising.
GiantGrit : 1/14/2019 7:29 pm : link : reply
Draft well and often.
People watched the divisional matchups and apparently found a way to reinvent the wheel on how to play football. News to me.
the Cowboys and Eagles draft well. The Giants have not. Until the Giants draft well on a consistent basis, we are going to suck.
They had an awesome draft last year, and it looks like they have some young players. Oh wait, its a year to year league and no one is allowed to be happy Will Hernandez and B.J. Hill looked promising.
Adding good players through the draft instead of looking back at entire drafts where nobody is still on the team has a massive impact.
It isn't about having courage - it is about having the football acumen to consistently add good players to the team.
But since that didn't happen let's deal with reality: we have a generational RB who needs an improved OL. We have a veteran QB Eli who needs protection, a run game, and for OBJ to stay healthy and be a Top 5 wideout again.
The offense is a few pieces away and could be fixed this off-season if we get that one key UFA for the OL; and, we draft a starting caliber OL in round 2 of the draft. I like WR Latimer to be our #2 again as he is an exceptional special teams player; he knows the offense; and, I think he could be a redzone threat. Re-sign him and hope he stays healthy.
What we can't do is "reach" for high priced UFA's. I understand why Gettleman signed say RB Stewart. He was hoping for a 3rd and short back who could mentor Barkley. Stewart was way over-paid. Solder was an almost "must" signing and we way overpaid and no matter what anyone says in the long run he won't be worth his contract. Knowing what we know now, our UFA class bombed.
At the end of the day, we need another strong draft AND we need guys like rookie injuries DT McIntosh and CB Beal to be strong in camp next year and show they may be starters.
Knowing the NFL, teams may be looking to trade up for Haskins and Murray as they are QB's, a premium position. Last year, Gettleman stuck with his best player available draft board and while he may regret it in the long run, we have to build on Barkley now....and build on OBJ who draws the double teams and makes things easier.
Strong Draft. Don't make mistakes and reach, please.
Strong UFA class: no way over-paid, now over-the-hill, but solid guys who won't bust our cap space.
The Giants could be a 10-6 team EASILY next year if the OL is improved and we stay healthy again. The offense has that kind of potential. The defense may improve a bit if we get another pass rusher round 1, but honestly, we have so many holes in the secondary that I see us being fleeced again by good teams.
Way too early to know. But its a good time of the year to debate, discuss, hypothosize, wish, and play with the ole crystal ball. Enjoy it everyone, I know I will.