As I've been commuting into the city more, I've gotten more on the podcast kick to make the soul crushing NJT trip go a little better and have been listening to alot of great Giants podcasts (including our own Eric's forays).
Anyway, the host of the Giants Insider podcast told a story that about 10 years ago, he was buying a mattress down in South Jersey and it turns out that Sean Payton's brother was the manager there. They got talking about Payton and his departure from the Giants. And we knew that Fassel demoted Payton in 2002 from playcalling duties and essentially forced him out.
So as the story went, according to Payton's brother, the Giants were playing in Arizona in week 4, and the Giants were deep in their own end before the half. Payton wanted to run out the clock, but Fassel wanted to be aggressive. They disagreed but Fassel demanded that Payton call his best play down there. Payton did so, and Kerry Collins got picked and it was run back for a 38 yard TD by Justin Lucas with :04 to go in the half and tied the game at 7-7. I remember this happening and wondering why the hell the Giants were throwing there. So Fassel would turn around and blame Payton for the call, hold it against him and eventually replaced him at the playcaller before the Week 9 game.
Essentially sidelined, Payton was understandably pissed. When Parcells took over in Dallas, he asked Jim Johnson (the great Eagles Defensive Coordinator) which offense gave him the most trouble, and he said Sean Payton's with the Giants. So Parcells offered him a job on his staff, and when Payton resigned, supposedly Fassel saw the letter, crumpled it up and threw it at Payton.
Needless to say, for those of us at a certain age, we still think of Belichick as a Giant. Payton doesn't get the same nostaglia, but it looks like Fassel really screwed that whole thing up for the Giants and led to the implosion in 2003.
Anyway, interesting story for the offseason, and we all know the rumored stories of Fassel and the boat and a variety of other personal skeletons, but it's tales like this which is no wonder why Fassel has never landed another shot as a head coach in the NFL.
Interesting story and thanks for posting. That last part just sounds like an embellishment to me.
Two other tidbits I hadn't heard before (these are rumors he mentioned)
1. Apparently the Bills were considering hiring Fassel at one point and the Mara's called them to say don't even bother. (yikes)
2. On that punt from Feagles to Westbrook that never should have happened, Fassel told Feagles to punt it to him. Afterwards, Feagles was basically instructed to take the blame by telling reporters that it was a bad kick.
I've long been wondering what happened to Fassel after his NYG tenure. The whole thing with Washington and then signing up to be Billick's lap dog after losing to him in the SB.
Here's a good question for the future, potentially. Would the Giants ever entertain interviewing Fassel's son if Shurmur doesn't work out? He was someone I wanted to see interviewed last year, but not sure what the NYG-Fassel family relationship is like.
Two other tidbits I hadn't heard before (these are rumors he mentioned)
1. Apparently the Bills were considering hiring Fassel at one point and the Mara's called them to say don't even bother. (yikes)
2. On that punt from Feagles to Westbrook that never should have happened, Fassel told Feagles to punt it to him. Afterwards, Feagles was basically instructed to take the blame by telling reporters that it was a bad kick.
Two other tidbits I hadn't heard before (these are rumors he mentioned)
1. Apparently the Bills were considering hiring Fassel at one point and the Mara's called them to say don't even bother. (yikes)
2. On that punt from Feagles to Westbrook that never should have happened, Fassel told Feagles to punt it to him. Afterwards, Feagles was basically instructed to take the blame by telling reporters that it was a bad kick.
Yes, good points, I forgot to add those.
I didn't know the Bills story. If I recall, the Giants sunk his chance in Washington when he was about to be hired by the Redskins, but at the last second they pivoted to Jim Zorn.
And the Feagles thing was a typical CYA move by a weakened coach, asking his player to take the blame. But at that time, the Giants were 2-3 and the loss dropped them to 2-4, the buzzards were circling and Fassel exhibited every aspect of the drowning man syndrome. And his best coordinators (Payton and Fox) both had left and we were stuck with Fassel as his own OC and old friend Johnny Lynn as DC.
My favorite Lynn story was when he came to a defensive meeting later in the 2003 season and had the game plan for the wrong opponent and didn't realize it. What a trainwreck.
Interesting story and thanks for posting. That last part just sounds like an embellishment to me.
It happens all the time in all jobs. I think like you. If you don't like someone then that is the easy way out. You say your goodbyes and move on. However, a lot of people take it as a insult. It is an ego thing. Payton basically told him that he is better off in a different job that with Fassel. It is an attack on him. That is how a lot of peopld take it.
I've long been wondering what happened to Fassel after his NYG tenure. The whole thing with Washington and then signing up to be Billick's lap dog after losing to him in the SB.
Here's a good question for the future, potentially. Would the Giants ever entertain interviewing Fassel's son if Shurmur doesn't work out? He was someone I wanted to see interviewed last year, but not sure what the NYG-Fassel family relationship is like.
I'm pretty sure John Fassel was astranged from Jim for a very long time. It could have been another of Jim's kids, but I'm positive he had a child he didn't know about until he was the Head Coach.
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I've long been wondering what happened to Fassel after his NYG tenure. The whole thing with Washington and then signing up to be Billick's lap dog after losing to him in the SB.
Here's a good question for the future, potentially. Would the Giants ever entertain interviewing Fassel's son if Shurmur doesn't work out? He was someone I wanted to see interviewed last year, but not sure what the NYG-Fassel family relationship is like.
I'm pretty sure John Fassel was astranged from Jim for a very long time. It could have been another of Jim's kids, but I'm positive he had a child he didn't know about until he was the Head Coach of NYG.
I had to go back and look, I have a good memory, but not that good. Bill Gramatica missed a 42 yard field goal right before the half and the Giants got the ball at their own 32 and had all 3 timeouts and :18 seconds and were up 7-0. Fassel, I guess, want to try for a long field goal, and wanted Payton to be aggressive even though Payton wanted to just go in with the lead. So that happens, and Fassel blames Payton.
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as well.
Two other tidbits I hadn't heard before (these are rumors he mentioned)
1. Apparently the Bills were considering hiring Fassel at one point and the Mara's called them to say don't even bother. (yikes)
2. On that punt from Feagles to Westbrook that never should have happened, Fassel told Feagles to punt it to him. Afterwards, Feagles was basically instructed to take the blame by telling reporters that it was a bad kick.
Yes, good points, I forgot to add those.
I didn't know the Bills story. If I recall, the Giants sunk his chance in Washington when he was about to be hired by the Redskins, but at the last second they pivoted to Jim Zorn.
And the Feagles thing was a typical CYA move by a weakened coach, asking his player to take the blame. But at that time, the Giants were 2-3 and the loss dropped them to 2-4, the buzzards were circling and Fassel exhibited every aspect of the drowning man syndrome. And his best coordinators (Payton and Fox) both had left and we were stuck with Fassel as his own OC and old friend Johnny Lynn as DC.
My favorite Lynn story was when he came to a defensive meeting later in the 2003 season and had the game plan for the wrong opponent and didn't realize it. What a trainwreck.
If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
How can you blame him?
Coughlin got tired of it. I was at that game.
Also, Sean Payton is a smarmy douche.
Payton was Collins' QB coach in 1999 and became the OC in 2000, when he started calling plays. He was relieved of playcalling midway thru 2002 by Fassel before the Jacksonville game.
And if you want to know why Jim Johnson thought so highly of Payton, look at the Week 2 game in Philly in 2000, when the Giants offense had the Eagles defense confused all game and they killed them. That was one of the few times in 30 years I've seen the Eagles so outmatched by the Giants.
Coughlin got tired of it. I was at that game.
Also, Sean Payton is a smarmy douche.
On Spags' defense too.
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game calling in '02, not '00?
Payton was Collins' QB coach in 1999 and became the OC in 2000, when he started calling plays. He was relieved of playcalling midway thru 2002 by Fassel before the Jacksonville game.
And if you want to know why Jim Johnson thought so highly of Payton, look at the Week 2 game in Philly in 2000, when the Giants offense had the Eagles defense confused all game and they killed them. That was one of the few times in 30 years I've seen the Eagles so outmatched by the Giants.
Ah, thanks Matt. As you get older, the years bleed together.
Lombardi
Landry
Belichick
Payton
Fox
If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Payton is in rare company as being a coach barred from coaching, and the league actually explored avenues to have him suspended indefinitely, along with Gregg Williams. It only ended up being one season, but that was unprecedented.
And keep in mind that the bounty issue was just one in his path. You also had the Vicodin issue which was basically swept under the rug.
When he and his wife divorced several years ago, there were allegations of spousal abuse. The guy is a prime scumbag who avoids the negative light because of the W's.
And Fassel is probably just as bad.
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this explains why the Giants hung 52 on the Saints back in 2012.
Coughlin got tired of it. I was at that game.
Also, Sean Payton is a smarmy douche.
On Spags' defense too.
Yup. Stevie Brown had a field day and Jimmy Graham was afraid of getting hit.
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In comment 14263888 McNally's_Nuts said:
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this explains why the Giants hung 52 on the Saints back in 2012.
Coughlin got tired of it. I was at that game.
Also, Sean Payton is a smarmy douche.
On Spags' defense too.
Yup. Stevie Brown had a field day and Jimmy Graham was afraid of getting hit.
And David Wilson went nuts.
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In comment 14263892 Matt in SGS said:
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In comment 14263888 McNally's_Nuts said:
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this explains why the Giants hung 52 on the Saints back in 2012.
Coughlin got tired of it. I was at that game.
Also, Sean Payton is a smarmy douche.
On Spags' defense too.
Yup. Stevie Brown had a field day and Jimmy Graham was afraid of getting hit.
And David Wilson went nuts.
My recollection of it was Giants dominated the Saints and then laid back to back eggs against the Falcons and Ravens.
2012 was the year we should have re-tooled the lines, instead Reese drafted a running back, wide receiver and a corner in the first 3 picks.
I took my son to two games to start his Giants fan career. The Panthers and Falcons, and he never saw the giants score a point!!
I took my son to two games to start his Giants fan career. The Panthers and Falcons, and he never saw the giants score a point!!
My brother's first Giants game was the Tampa game that year. He said in the parking lot that Victor Cruz was going to score an 80 yard touchdown.
He did
And my brother started to cry.
Payton is in rare company as being a coach barred from coaching, and the league actually explored avenues to have him suspended indefinitely, along with Gregg Williams. It only ended up being one season, but that was unprecedented.
And keep in mind that the bounty issue was just one in his path. You also had the Vicodin issue which was basically swept under the rug.
When he and his wife divorced several years ago, there were allegations of spousal abuse. The guy is a prime scumbag who avoids the negative light because of the W's.
And Fassel is probably just as bad.
My recollection is that the Feds were involved in the Vicodin stuff?
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If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Actually, yes - at least in California anyway; you can be sued if you give a poor reference. Two employees won their cases several; years ago, and because of those lawsuits, most employers just verify name/title/salary/dates of employment, etc.
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game calling in '02, not '00?
Payton was Collins' QB coach in 1999 and became the OC in 2000, when he started calling plays. He was relieved of playcalling midway thru 2002 by Fassel before the Jacksonville game.
And if you want to know why Jim Johnson thought so highly of Payton, look at the Week 2 game in Philly in 2000, when the Giants offense had the Eagles defense confused all game and they killed them. That was one of the few times in 30 years I've seen the Eagles so outmatched by the Giants.
I remember that game. Philly beat the Cowboys the week before after drinking pickle juice, so 90 percent of the pregame was about the Eagles' magical pickle juice.
I vividly remember that play. After that game in a different Giants' group I was calling for Fassel's immediate firing.
I took my son to two games to start his Giants fan career. The Panthers and Falcons, and he never saw the giants score a point!!
So your son roots for what team now? lol
Payton is in rare company as being a coach barred from coaching, and the league actually explored avenues to have him suspended indefinitely, along with Gregg Williams. It only ended up being one season, but that was unprecedented.
And keep in mind that the bounty issue was just one in his path. You also had the Vicodin issue which was basically swept under the rug.
When he and his wife divorced several years ago, there were allegations of spousal abuse. The guy is a prime scumbag who avoids the negative light because of the W's.
And Fassel is probably just as bad.
Peyton is a world class ASSHOLE. I witnessed him be a complete dick to a couple of young kids while waiting for a table at a restaurant. Perhaps he thought he was too good to have to wait like the rest of us, but it was unbelievable.
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In comment 14263872 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Actually, yes - at least in California anyway; you can be sued if you give a poor reference. Two employees won their cases several; years ago, and because of those lawsuits, most employers just verify name/title/salary/dates of employment, etc.
Only in California. How dare an employee be held accountable for their own incompetence and poor performance. Clearly it was someone else's fault and they are victims.
Fun fact, Jorge Posada's uncle works in Disney World in Orlando and was at a gift shop register. I know that because a few years ago I was there with my kids and I was wearing a Yankee hat. We were buying a tee shirt or something and he saw the hat and gave me a thumbs up. He asked me about the game the night before or whatever and we were chatting. And he said to me "my nephew is on the team". I'm thinking he's going to say some random reliever or someone who was a AAA guy who got a cup of coffee. And he tells me it's Posada. I looked at him and he had the signature nose. He said his Jorge basically hired his (the Uncle's) son to watch his cabana in Tampa throughout the year. And then he gave me a few Mickey car antennae things for free, which might have gotten him killed by Disney for doing so. No jewels, just regular.
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In comment 14263913 Bill L said:
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In comment 14263872 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Actually, yes - at least in California anyway; you can be sued if you give a poor reference. Two employees won their cases several; years ago, and because of those lawsuits, most employers just verify name/title/salary/dates of employment, etc.
Only in California. How dare an employee be held accountable for their own incompetence and poor performance. Clearly it was someone else's fault and they are victims.
Yep. It's ridiculous...
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brother manages a mattress store in South Jersey? Damn, his brother can't find him some nepotistic job with the Saints? Every other coach seems to do it for their family.
Fun fact, Jorge Posada's uncle works in Disney World in Orlando and was at a gift shop register. I know that because a few years ago I was there with my kids and I was wearing a Yankee hat. We were buying a tee shirt or something and he saw the hat and gave me a thumbs up. He asked me about the game the night before or whatever and we were chatting. And he said to me "my nephew is on the team". I'm thinking he's going to say some random reliever or someone who was a AAA guy who got a cup of coffee. And he tells me it's Posada. I looked at him and he had the signature nose. He said his Jorge basically hired his (the Uncle's) son to watch his cabana in Tampa throughout the year. And then he gave me a few Mickey car antennae things for free, which might have gotten him killed by Disney for doing so. No jewels, just regular.
Not as big as Posada, but MLB pitcher Chris Tillman's dad drives a Super Shuttle to and from Tampa Airport. He's driven my wife 2 or 3 times and he's quite chatty apparently. I think the two are estranged but I could be wrong.
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In comment 14263913 Bill L said:
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In comment 14263872 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Actually, yes - at least in California anyway; you can be sued if you give a poor reference. Two employees won their cases several; years ago, and because of those lawsuits, most employers just verify name/title/salary/dates of employment, etc.
Only in California. How dare an employee be held accountable for their own incompetence and poor performance. Clearly it was someone else's fault and they are victims.
We live in sucky times
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In comment 14263913 Bill L said:
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In comment 14263872 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Actually, yes - at least in California anyway; you can be sued if you give a poor reference. Two employees won their cases several; years ago, and because of those lawsuits, most employers just verify name/title/salary/dates of employment, etc.
Only in California. How dare an employee be held accountable for their own incompetence and poor performance. Clearly it was someone else's fault and they are victims.
Yeah no. It's everywhere, it's not new. What company wants the liability involved in getting blamed for someone not getting hired? Defamation, tortuous interference, who needs the headache.
Payton is in rare company as being a coach barred from coaching, and the league actually explored avenues to have him suspended indefinitely, along with Gregg Williams. It only ended up being one season, but that was unprecedented.
And keep in mind that the bounty issue was just one in his path. You also had the Vicodin issue which was basically swept under the rug.
When he and his wife divorced several years ago, there were allegations of spousal abuse. The guy is a prime scumbag who avoids the negative light because of the W's.
And Fassel is probably just as bad.
Amen. I loath that cocksucker Payton. I hope the Rams march into New Orleans and beat the piss out of them. And if we're really lucky Darnold chases Ingram to the sideline and accidentally rolls into Payton's legs.
Missing from this story is the fact that the offense was better after Fassel took over the play-calling from Payton in 2002.
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In comment 14263872 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
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If the Bills and Redskins stories are true, Mara could be sued for some serious shit. You're allowed to give references, but your only allowed to give a good one, and if it's bad, it's just best to confirm the employment of a certain time period.
Wait, what? Is that a real thing? In life or in the NFL? If you're asked to give a reference, you can't give anhonest one?
Actually, yes - at least in California anyway; you can be sued if you give a poor reference. Two employees won their cases several; years ago, and because of those lawsuits, most employers just verify name/title/salary/dates of employment, etc.
Well then if I was an employer checking a reference and instead of a good one got that boiler plate response, it would tell me all I needed to know about the applicant.