at 6 and Jags staying put and selecting Murray at 7. Jones to the Broncos at 10 and Lock to the Redskins in place at 15.
Grier remains unselected through the first round. Not sure I can imagine the Pats passing on him.
BR latest mock post Murray's decision. - (
New Window )
Quote:
Haskins improved a lot during the year dealing with pressure. Watch the Michigan game - he was fantastic at moving in the pocket and sensing the rush.
He did a lot more than just stand there and throw go routes all year.
His short game accuracy was outstanding. A WCO team like JAX would love him.
Where he has to improve is on his deep ball footwork. He has a habit of driving off the wrong foot. Also, as a 1 year starter, he's naturally going to be a bit green when it comes to scanning through his progressions - that's fine, he will improve there.
Haskins has an NFL arm and more prototypical QB size. He's not a gadget QB who needs to run all over the place to make an impact. I hope he's there @ 6 and I hope we take him.
arc I didn't know you were on the Haskins train. All aboard baby!!!
Yessir!
He usually comes across as someone who understands the game and knows what he's watching. So this is disappointing, and a setback. ;)
Haskins >>> Grier :)
Not Gettleman but
11/24
Jordan Reid
Jordan Reid
@JReidNFL
Scouts from the Chargers, Colts, Raiders, Bears, Titans, Steelers, Giants, Eagles, Jaguars, Dolphins, Browns, and Lions are in attendance at the Michigan/Ohio State game today.
11/3
Lori Schmidt
@LoriSchmidt
I just figured out why this game has gone the way it has: There's a Cleveland Browns scout here. Other NFL scouts scheduled to be here today include the Panthers, Packers, Jets, Giants, Eagles, Bills, Vikings, Chiefs.
I was just looking at the mocks. It's pretty clear DL is the strength of where top of this draft.
Quote:
is very surprising.
He usually comes across as someone who understands the game and knows what he's watching. So this is disappointing, and a setback. ;)
Haskins >>> Grier :)
All aboard! Fair eval by arc above as well. Haskins did grow a lot as the season went on and rebounded well from a midseason lull. Understandable as a first season starter. He's not a sure thing, obviously. But there's a great deal of potential
Not far behind last year's 4 in top 10.
If I remember correctly, at this time last year none of the eventual first rounders was considered that good. Mayfield was too short. Allen had accuracy problems. Rosen was most NFL-ready, but was a China doll. Worries about Lamar being able to learn the playbook. Darnold had too many turnovers. Things change as it gets closer to the draft.
So do people who drop into every thread with simple 1 liners. Be less simple.
All aboard! Fair eval by arc above as well. Haskins did grow a lot as the season went on and rebounded well from a midseason lull. Understandable as a first season starter. He's not a sure thing, obviously. But there's a great deal of potential
Your credibility on anything Buckeyes should be taken with a large grain of salt... ;)
Quote:
is very surprising.
He usually comes across as someone who understands the game and knows what he's watching. So this is disappointing, and a setback. ;)
Haskins >>> Grier :)
Oh, so you're saying the great Will Grier couldn't stand in that Ohio State pocket - count one Mississippi, two Mississipi....seven Mississippi - and produce the same results?
I actually have gone back and forth on this one a fair bit though. I recognize Haskins is far from a perfect prospect with crucial questions on how he'll transition from OSU to the NFL. Absolutely think he should not start from day 1. But I do believe in the talent
Quote:
In comment 14264497 bw in dc said:
Quote:
is very surprising.
He usually comes across as someone who understands the game and knows what he's watching. So this is disappointing, and a setback. ;)
Haskins >>> Grier :)
Oh, so you're saying the great Will Grier couldn't stand in that Ohio State pocket - count one Mississippi, two Mississipi....seven Mississippi - and produce the same results?
He can stand back there for 20 seconds if he wants, he still won't have Haskins' arm.
Why do you think he was taking steroids? :)
I actually have gone back and forth on this one a fair bit though. I recognize Haskins is far from a perfect prospect with crucial questions on how he'll transition from OSU to the NFL. Absolutely think he should not start from day 1. But I do believe in the talent
I think I told you once that I saw Haskins play in high school at Bullis (MD). Kid was a stud. Man among boys at times. So it's pretty cool seeing him go from high school star, to OSU star, to Heisman candidate, to highly touted NFL prospect.
He can stand back there for 20 seconds if he wants, he still won't have Haskins' arm.
Why do you think he was taking steroids? :)
Very well played.
We'll see what happens. If we go pass rusher, or maybe Devin White I wouldn't have an issue either though. Unless it's Rashan Gary! (kidding)
What pressure? He had all day to throw and Michigan couldn't cover crossing routes, or defend the run, that day.
Quote:
Haskins improved a lot during the year dealing with pressure. Watch the Michigan game - he was fantastic at moving in the pocket and sensing the rush.
What pressure? He had all day to throw and Michigan couldn't cover crossing routes, or defend the run, that day.
There were several instances where he was pressured. He wasn't under duress all day - but he didn't just stand there and throw all day without anyone in his face and without needing to use his feet.
On his first TD pass, Michigan sent a linebacker up the middle on a blitz and he had rushers coming around the edges.
He also had a collapsing pocket in his face on his 2nd TD throw.
2nd Q - 2nd and 9, Haskins senses immediate pressure, tucks and takes off up the gut for a 9 yard gain.
The wheel route he throws to McCall near the end of the first half is a beautiful lead pass over the trailing DB with the safety closing in. Perfect placement.
3rd and 11 early in the end half, Haskins has both the DT and DE on his right break through the pocket within about 2 seconds. Haskins is able move backwards and deliver a pass right over the middle for a 1st down.
Late in the 3rd quarter on a 1st and 10 inside the Mich 25, the entire pocket collapses around Haskins - both edges collapse in and the DT breaks through. He still delivers a strike to KJ Hill who runs a stick route and breaks back outside and nearly scores on a big gain.
1st and 10 with about 9 minutes left in the game, Haskins takes a snap out of the gun and again, both his RT and RG fail to hold their blocks and 2-3 Michigan linemen are in the pocket immediately. Haskins wisely again sees a running lane to his left, pulls the ball down, and runs for a 1st down.
It's true that his line did a really nice job most of the day and he had a lot of clean pockets to throw from - but it's not true that he just made easy plays all day. He made several impressive plays and absolutely improved as the season went on.
Even his running ability seemed to get better. He's never going to be a scrambler or a guy who scares you with his legs the way Jackson does or Murray will, but he got smarter as far as when to use his legs.
Part of the reason he went untouched on so many pass plays is also because of how quickly he was getting the ball out.
I don't see a Leftwich-esque "windup" here - I think Haskins actually has a pretty nice release.
I really think he made strides this year in his first season as a starter. He has more to learn and my ideal situation would probably be to let Eli play out this last year and have Haskins sit behind him for a few weeks at least.
Early in the year, he wasn't really on my radar as far as possibilities for NYG, but he really started to impress me later on.
There's still untapped potential. Haskins is going to get better in the way he sees the field and goes through his progressions.
To me, he profiles really well as a QB at the next level.
I'm not a scout - just a fan, so.. you can take my "analysis" with a grain of salt. I just really like this kid and hope our FO does too.
That reminds some people of Jay Cutler, and that's fair, but I don't see how that makes his mental makeup similar to Cutler's.
If Lock reminds me of anyone "mentally", and even the goofy body postures and motions off which the kid is tossing absolute dimes, he reminds me of the 2011 Eli Manning. I hope Gettleman sees the similarities, and I hope Lock's personality is similar to Eli's. Supposedly the kid's a nerd and very self effacing.
I like Haskins a ton too and did pretty much immediately when I first saw him, and that was really reinforced by his play against Penn State. But I keep on thinking, too bad, some team or another will jump the Giants to land Haskins, and I'm not THAT SURE about him to cough up our 1st, next year's first, and a 2nd to jump up to 1 or 2 or whatever it will take.
I think you have to look carefully at your 2nd favorite QB this year after the consensus #1 is plucked before our slot at 6. Just a hunch.
3 minutes on Lock - ( New Window )
We'll see what happens. If we go pass rusher, or maybe Devin White I wouldn't have an issue either though. Unless it's Rashan Gary! (kidding)
Would you mind share some of the behind the scenes recruiting process at OSU? For example, how do you determine your list of candidates? How does it start?
I met this guy with past ties to Alabama and he said it's two pronged - camps and sort of this esoteric network that is driven largely by word of mouth. They would certainly look national and regional recruiting lists compiled by the usual suspects, but that was more of a supplement rather than a starting point...
That reminds some people of Jay Cutler, and that's fair, but I don't see how that makes his mental makeup similar to Cutler's.
Robinson is right. Lock was fantastic the last month and a half of the season. I like how his completion % has increased every year since his freshman year. Four years ago he was at 49%. Finished his senior year at 63%.
Have to like the SEC factor, too.
However, I wish there was a bit more consistency against the SEC Big Three - Bama, Georgia, Florida.
At Bama, Mizzu just got overwhelmed early and just could't get anything going. Lock was just poor.
Hosting Georgia, he struggled again and was under a lot of pressure and couldn't find any rhythm.
At Florida, however, he was brilliant. Just hit on all cylinders in the swamp and made some great throws, some of which were captured in this PFF video.
By the summer we've got a big board of maybe 50-75 kids per position heading into their junior year. Communication through back channels has begun, and then ramps up September 1 of their junior season when they can be contacted officially. They're watched very closely in junior season film. That's really the key season for evaluation as the big board gets pared down much more after that season. Some start committing, most take it into their senior season when official visits happen. Occasionally someone pops up late in the process, maybe an Ohio kid. But for the most part teams have been watching their commits since their sophomore season. Every game.
We used camps mostly for kids who we liked on film but we weren't quite sold on offering a scholarship. So we asked them to come to camp to get an evaluation in person. Jets 1st round pick Darron Lee was an example. Kid came to three different camps at OSU the summer before his senior year to earn his scholarship offer.
If it's true that he improved later in the year and was playing significantly better, I'd have to give him another look and maybe not write him off so quickly.
But when I hear Josh Allen (and not the one I want from Kentucky...) as a comp, it doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.
I know Allen was way beyond what anyone expected as a rusher. But he's a QB... completing 52% of his passes. Accuracy is a HUGE flag for him right now. No QB is going to win in this league consistently completing passes at a clip that low.
I just didn't like that Lock seemed to take a step back as a Senior. He finally got his completion % over 60 - but the TD/INT ratio took a dive, the YPA cut quite a bit... it just didn't look like the "progress" year you want to see from a Senior QB.
Now, I know that Sam Darnold also kind of took a step back between his Fresh/Soph years - but a) it was well documented that his line play was much worse as as Soph, and b) he was still just a Soph...
Lock's senior season as a whole really doesn't impress me much on the surface and the eye test kind of backed that up. But again - I didn't see really any of Lock in late November/Dec., so my POV is admittedly a little unfair.
Look at several games. Bama was clearly the worst outlier.
Re. the statistical drop-off in YPA and YPC and TDS, some of that problem may be related to the lack of availability of his favorite WR target, Emmanuel Hall. He was hurt on/off most of his senior year (they came in together.) Hall is a dynamic deep threat and THE guy Lock looked for deep. I will attach a profile of Hall. Interestingly it notes Hall's inconsistent hands and how they improved from 17 to 18, which may have had a positive impact on Locks % completions.
If I drafted Lock, I'd look to add Hall too earlyin the 4th round if he's still on the board. NFL drafts scout has him at 19/267 WR prospects in 2019, and he might still be available if he doesn't blow up the combine.
He supposedly runs a 4.4n 40, at 6'2" and 200#. Not an awesome 4 year career by any means statistically, but clearly Lock's favorite deep threat when in the game. I attached a profile of him below, sounds like a longer version of Mario Manningham with less production but perhaps more potential. They predict he'll have an excellent combine re speed, quickness and vertical hop.
He'll prolly be long gone by round 4, looking at that write up.
Emmanuel Hall, WR Mizzou senior. - ( New Window )
34th.
Link - ( New Window )
By the summer we've got a big board of maybe 50-75 kids per position heading into their junior year. Communication through back channels has begun, and then ramps up September 1 of their junior season when they can be contacted officially. They're watched very closely in junior season film. That's really the key season for evaluation as the big board gets pared down much more after that season. Some start committing, most take it into their senior season when official visits happen. Occasionally someone pops up late in the process, maybe an Ohio kid. But for the most part teams have been watching their commits since their sophomore season. Every game.
We used camps mostly for kids who we liked on film but we weren't quite sold on offering a scholarship. So we asked them to come to camp to get an evaluation in person. Jets 1st round pick Darron Lee was an example. Kid came to three different camps at OSU the summer before his senior year to earn his scholarship offer.
Thanks, Kyle. Good stuff. It’s interesting that those guides like “Rivals” are given that weight. At least from the standpoint the of getting a list together.
I take it the back channels are OSU staff reaching out to a prospect’s coach to gauge interest in both directions...?
The one drawback of moving to a rookie QB (which I'd still be in favor of) is that it likely buys Shurmur another bad season. Another 5-11 year and it will be easy for Mara to write it off as growing pains with a rookie QB. That would be a big mistake.
34th.
Link - ( New Window )
I guess we better draft Andy Isabella then.
You're a tool. I'm looking forward to when you get banned yet again.
Quote:
re Haskins is what Shurmur thinks. And DG of course.
The one drawback of moving to a rookie QB (which I'd still be in favor of) is that it likely buys Shurmur another bad season. Another 5-11 year and it will be easy for Mara to write it off as growing pains with a rookie QB. That would be a big mistake.
I'm glad you found your new contrarian take. Shurmur is a lost cause (despite the fact that you yourself have been screaming from the rooftops about how bereft of talent this roster has been) but McAdoo was underrated and a terrific close game coach. Do I have that right?
Does Shurmur have a rep for identifying QBs with a lot of potential? He spent the early part of his QB coaching career with high draftees McNabb and Sam Bradford. In Cleveland, they selected Colt McCoy the year Shurmer started as HC. McCoy has had a decent NFL career for a 3rd rounder but he isn't the sort of star we're looking at. I appreciate the work Shurmur did with Casey Keenum and more particularly Nick Foles in Philadelphia, but nothing in that resume screams of someone who is top-notch talent evaluator.
So I don't understand the point. Shurmur definitely knows more than us fans, but I see no evidence that he is more perceptive than the NFL GMs and scouts with whom he is competing?
Quote:
In comment 14266409 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
re Haskins is what Shurmur thinks. And DG of course.
The one drawback of moving to a rookie QB (which I'd still be in favor of) is that it likely buys Shurmur another bad season. Another 5-11 year and it will be easy for Mara to write it off as growing pains with a rookie QB. That would be a big mistake.
I'm glad you found your new contrarian take. Shurmur is a lost cause (despite the fact that you yourself have been screaming from the rooftops about how bereft of talent this roster has been) but McAdoo was underrated and a terrific close game coach. Do I have that right?
Shurmur being a shitty coach in 2018 is a contrarian take? I invite you to go back and read the game threads and see how people felt about his job performance.
Quote:
34th best player in 2018.
34th.
Link - ( New Window )
I guess we better draft Andy Isabella then.
You're a tool. I'm looking forward to when you get banned yet again.
Hey, that's my favorite player in the draft - Isabella.
Don't knock the best WR prospect... ;)
Quote:
re Haskins is what Shurmur thinks. And DG of course.
The one drawback of moving to a rookie QB (which I'd still be in favor of) is that it likely buys Shurmur another bad season. Another 5-11 year and it will be easy for Mara to write it off as growing pains with a rookie QB. That would be a big mistake.
Why is this a given? The Jets, Cards, and Browns all replaced their HC during or right after their first round QB's rookie season
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 14266409 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
re Haskins is what Shurmur thinks. And DG of course.
The one drawback of moving to a rookie QB (which I'd still be in favor of) is that it likely buys Shurmur another bad season. Another 5-11 year and it will be easy for Mara to write it off as growing pains with a rookie QB. That would be a big mistake.
Why is this a given? The Jets, Cards, and Browns all replaced their HC during or right after their first round QB's rookie season
If they didn't fire Shurmur for the job he did this year, I think he'll get a year cushion with a rookie QB.
Quote:
In comment 14266528 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14266409 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
re Haskins is what Shurmur thinks. And DG of course.
The one drawback of moving to a rookie QB (which I'd still be in favor of) is that it likely buys Shurmur another bad season. Another 5-11 year and it will be easy for Mara to write it off as growing pains with a rookie QB. That would be a big mistake.
I'm glad you found your new contrarian take. Shurmur is a lost cause (despite the fact that you yourself have been screaming from the rooftops about how bereft of talent this roster has been) but McAdoo was underrated and a terrific close game coach. Do I have that right?
Shurmur being a shitty coach in 2018 is a contrarian take? I invite you to go back and read the game threads and see how people felt about his job performance.
Well that seals it. If there's one place I go to for accurate football insights, it's the game threads.
So does that indicate that we should've been a playoff team with a competent coach? Or are we just going by the usual axiom that anyone and anything associated with the team is garbage?
Quote:
If they didn't fire Shurmur for the job he did this year, I think he'll get a year cushion with a rookie QB
So does that indicate that we should've been a playoff team with a competent coach? Or are we just going by the usual axiom that anyone and anything associated with the team is garbage?
The latter. Always the latter.
I don't just knock the Giants for the sake of knocking them. I've actually always been a pretty positive fan until recently. But in case you haven't been paying attention - they deserve to be knocked.
Shurmur did a shitty job in 2018. That's not me stamping my feet...it's just observation. If he repeats the job he did in 2018 in 2019, the calls to fire him will be ubiquitous. I'm not going out on a limb here.
Going out on a limb is thinking he'll improve. Maybe he will...I don't have a crystal ball. But we don't have any proof to this point in his career as a head coach that he will. But hey, maybe he will.
Thats one of his strengths. He throws pinpoint lasers deep. Just some incredibly impressive deep throws.
He has his weaknesses but its not the deep ball. Hes potentially an excellent fit in a run heavy/play action scheme. Classic dropback pocket passer which means good downfield.
Thats one of his strengths. He throws pinpoint lasers deep. Just some incredibly impressive deep throws.
He has his weaknesses but its not the deep ball. Hes potentially an excellent fit in a run heavy/play action scheme. Classic dropback pocket passer which means good downfield.
This isn't right. His deep ball accuracy is the question - his short and intermediate accuracy is fantastic.
His footwork gets a little messy on deep balls and he throws off his back foot sometimes. When he drives off his front foot, he gets good zip and ball placement.
Classic dropback passer doesn't always mean accurate down the field.
Thats one of his strengths. He throws pinpoint lasers deep. Just some incredibly impressive deep throws.
He has his weaknesses but its not the deep ball. Hes potentially an excellent fit in a run heavy/play action scheme. Classic dropback pocket passer which means good downfield.
I agree. I'm not really a Haskins guy, but I think he's absolutely fine throwing the deep ball. He has good variation with trajectory - he can throw deep frozen ropes or he can apply touch with enough air under the ball for the receiver to run under it.
Which is fine... that's natural and something most passers at his phase will have.
But Haskins' bread and butter isn't his deep ball - it isn't considered a "strength" because his footwork and accuracy have to be a little better.
Deep ball accuracy is basically a unanimous area of improvement that almost every scout feels he needs. It is definitely not a strength yet.