I think he's an exciting talent & seems to be a good dude. But his height/weight are major ?s. I think he'd get killed in the NFL. For his sake, I hope he pursues baseball.
Russell Wilson measured 5-10 and 3/8ths at Combine Â
If this were 1985 he wouldn't survive a season, but now that the QBs wear skirts if he can minimize the hits he takes in the run game he should be fine.
Again - the height hangups are not taking weight into consideration.
Just look at Russell Wilson. He is built differently than Kyler Murray. He's much thicker and more built.
And yes, Murray can also add weight - but it's easier said than done and we don't necessarily know if 15-20+ lbs would make a difference in Murray's game either for the better or worse.
Can we go through all of the mobile QBs that have suffered injuries outside the pocket? Rodgers, Mariota, Tannehill, Darnold, Allen, Jimmy G, Big Ben, RGIII, Wentz, Trubisky, etc. Going with a mobile QB regardless of size is very very risky without the size issues. Russell Wislon is the exception and not the rule. Going with a mobile QB isn't thinking oitside the box. It is being late to a trend that isn't working. Winning in the NFL means you need to be able to throw from the pocket. Running around buying time is cute and all but it is inside the pocket where games are truly won. If you aren't standing tall in the pocket in college then that will most likely not be learned in the NFL. And while Murray is a hell of a talent and did some great things this year he showed hiz warts against Alabama. He. Was taking hits, getting passes knocked at the line of scrimmage, and put up numbers after the game was basically over. No way in hell I use the 6th pick in the draft on him. It just isn't smart. Nothing can stop him from just quitting and going to play baseball.
People,especially in the offseason, become too enamored with measurables and too dismissive of what makes players great. Sure size matters, but so does athleticism (no argument he's one of the best prospects ever in this category) and heart/leadership/being a winner (where he also shines). They matter a lot.
Not saying he's a sure thing, but dismissing him on his size is missing a huge part of the picture IMO.
If he’s really only a tiny bit shorter than Wilson and ten pounds lighter than Wilson was at the combine I don’t think size is an issue. The game has changed, these QB’s don’t need to be 6’5” anymore. He does need to be a pass-first player, but that’s for the scouts and DG to evaluate.
Theyve missed games but have been incredibly successful
Any QB can get hurt. Pocket QBs get hurt. Aikman, Palmer, Montana all hurt alot. Brady, Marino, Testaverde all missed full seasons.
Phil Simms was always hurt
I just pointed out how people worried about Rosen and injuries. A traditional pocket passer.
And Murray isnt a "scrambler" who runs around trying to "buy time". He runs. There is a difference.
Didn't say they didn't work out did I? What I am saying is that everybody is all about these mobile QBs but not being honest when it comes to them.
Obviously, Big Ben and Rodgers were worth their picks and are going to the HoF. What I am saying is they suffer unnecessary injuries and that kills seasons. Look at Big Ben going to the locker room this year and they missed the playoffs by one game. Look at the last 2 years of Rodgers with getting injured. Their seasons are fucked.
Wentz had a great year last year but he still has a lot left to prove. He has had two serious injuries the last 2 years. Philly's season was saved both years by Foles. That is not the norm.
If you can guarantee super bowls like PIT and GB got with their QBs then awesome but it is basically a 100% chance at least 1 season if not more will be ruined when your QB goes down. And the risk is way higher with these running QBs. This isn't to say a pocket passer will not get injured because they do but not at the same rate. Amd lets look at who is in the final 4, Brady, Brees, Goff, and Mahomes. Now, Goff and Mahomes can make plays outside the pocket but these are primarily guys who stay in the pocket until forced out rather than just move around to move around.
It would be irresponsible for an NFL team to use a first round pick on a player who has a realistic option to play another sport at the highest level.
Despite what he almost certainly will tell NFL teams at the Combine, in good faith, about his love of football and his intention to make it his full-time career, the fact remains that he can change his mind and walk away at any time.
Tampa Bay took Bo Jackson with the first overall pick in 1986. He never played for them. He re-entered the draft the following year and wasn't selected until the seventh round, by the Raiders.
The chances of Dave Gettleman using the sixth overall pick on Kyler Murray are approaching zero.
We cannot miss on our first round pick. That is the worst thing that can happen. We need to hit regardless of the position.
And lets not act like we are in the position we are in because we are a backward thinking franchise. We are in this position because we missed on multiple picks. We didn't go with the safe picks. We went with stupid picks. We tried being forward thinking by going with McAdoo and his shitty ass WCO which wasn't a fit at all. Now everybody is all up Gettleman's ass because it wasn't fixed in one offseason. Give the guy a chance before we label him based off of Reese's tenure.
And a solid pro he will make a lot more money in the NFL over the next 5-8 years than he would in baseball. He will not be set to sign a big MLB contract until his late-20’s provided he makes the majors and is a good player then. If your options are potential starting QB or likely minor leaguer for the next few years it’s a fairly easy choice.
Not to mention he will have WAY more endorsement opportunities as an NFL quarterback than he would in MLB, even if he became one of the best players in baseball. The popularity between the sports is not comparable, virtually every sports fan in America knows every NFL QB, a comparably small subset has any knowledge of MLB players and even then we are only talking about the top few guys in the league. Baseball is a much less popular sport, it’s a regional sport really. I don’t think anyone outside of New York gives a shit about Aaron Judge or Jacob DeGrom, but everyone knows Darnold, Eli, Saquon, Beckham.
I don’t think baseball even has a true star player with a national profile at the moment. If you make it in the NFL it’s a much bigger deal.
If you didnt know it is Sports Information Department. Their entire purpose is Media Relations.
They actually came out and issued a statement with his exact height. They didnt have to do that. They coukd have just let people go off their media guide and if its wrong claim it came from elsewhere. They instead claimed responsibility.
They know the truth will be known at the Combine. They cant hide him being 5-8 or 5-7.
If they have lied they will destroy all of their credibility with their media contacts.
I have worked in a D1 Sports Information Dept before.
I bet Murray will measure exactly what they said just as Baker did.
If Kyler Murray was taken at the 6 pick and paid as such and being prepped all yeAr to take Eli Mannings place in2020, he will instead decide to go play minor league baseball for Oakland in buses & motels to make 4 mil??
To comp. Josh Allen got a fully guaranteed 4 yr 21 mil desl with a 13 mil signing bonus at the 7 pick
Im sure he cant wait to play for the Midland Rockhounds or the Stockton Ports.
If Kyler Murray was taken at the 6 pick and paid as such and being prepped all yeAr to take Eli Mannings place in2020, he will instead decide to go play minor league baseball for Oakland in buses & motels to make 4 mil??
To comp. Josh Allen got a fully guaranteed 4 yr 21 mil desl with a 13 mil signing bonus at the 7 pick
Im sure he cant wait to play for the Midland Rockhounds or the Stockton Ports.
It is just one of the questions. I have seen players get injured and try switching sports. It doesn't have to be an injury. It could be any adversity. It will always weigh on his mind whether he made the right decision or even if he succeeds at football whether or not he would have been successful at baseball. Also, there is a rumor he is trying to squeeze money out of Oakland or whoever drafted him. You cannot deny there is risk. And because of that he isn't worth the pick imo and you can bet your house that Gettleman would not take that risk at 6 either.
Even if he splits time, that's a lot of mileage on one arm.
Doubt he would and even so, it’s not like he’s a pitcher.
Not a problem if he plays RB or CB 16 games, then plays baseball...but playing QB, throwing 500+ passes for 16 games, and then playing maybe 90+ games of baseball? That's a lot of wear and tear.
The Oklahoma SID has officially stated that Murray measured 5-9 and 7/8ths in socks
That makes him less than half an inch smaller then Wilson. Wilson has been very effective in this league and qualifies as a franchise QB.
I think Murray is more talented than Wilson when he entered the League.
So you just look at height. Forget the fact Wilson is built like a running back. He’s probably about 225. He’s easily 25lb heavier than Murray and probably more. Not saying Murray won’t make it but frame means more than height if we are talking longevity.
The most revealing thing was Murray’s love of the big stage. His drug is performing in front of large crowds. So, and he says it, he absolutely doesn’t want to do the minor league circuit in baseball. That grind doesn’t suit him. Not being able to play baseball right away in front of MLB sized crowds will be a deterrent. And keep him in football.
He would absolutely screw over one franchise who bent over backwards for him. Hard to trust a guy like that. Whose to say after one year he doesn’t go back?
RE: I love when people say think outside the box. Â
Can we go through all of the mobile QBs that have suffered injuries outside the pocket? Rodgers, Mariota, Tannehill, Darnold, Allen, Jimmy G, Big Ben, RGIII, Wentz, Trubisky, etc. Going with a mobile QB regardless of size is very very risky without the size issues. Russell Wislon is the exception and not the rule. Going with a mobile QB isn't thinking oitside the box. It is being late to a trend that isn't working. Winning in the NFL means you need to be able to throw from the pocket. Running around buying time is cute and all but it is inside the pocket where games are truly won. If you aren't standing tall in the pocket in college then that will most likely not be learned in the NFL. And while Murray is a hell of a talent and did some great things this year he showed hiz warts against Alabama. He. Was taking hits, getting passes knocked at the line of scrimmage, and put up numbers after the game was basically over. No way in hell I use the 6th pick in the draft on him. It just isn't smart. Nothing can stop him from just quitting and going to play baseball.
Sorry. Too much common sense for the now psychotic Murray fans. And as for Wilson how much have they won since their D had declined and Lynch left. Wilson is a very good player but people talk like he's Won as Much as Brady. Maybe he's the NFL version of Mugsy Bogues. If I'm not risking the # 6 on that. His skill set is insane. His physical size playing football is legitimately a counterweight to his skill.
He also Got stuffed by Bama when it mattered. The NFL is fillled w defenses much better than Bama. He's going to see more sophisticated schemes than what he saw in th Big 12. No way for me. But Finding rational thought on those sold is not happening
And Murray isnt a "scrambler" who runs around trying to "buy time". He runs. There is a difference.
There is a difference. One keeps the QB healthy against 300+ pound DL's, LB's who are delivering blows with fierce impact and Safeties who still launch themselves at ball carriers.
One of the reasons Wilson is so effective is because he scrambles to throw. Being a running QB is not a positive in the NFL.
He isn’t a runner he’s a scrambler who can run and he avoids hits better than any qb who’s ever done it. Who’s to say Murray has that intelligence or feel for the game. Wilson is a freak and the above poster who says Wilson is overhyped. What has he done without a defense? He took a dog shit team to the playoffs. Carried the offense without Baldwin for a nice chunk of the season. People predicted them to win 5-6 games
I don't see it. Kid is a very exciting player, but I would see him as as an effective third down "wildcat" type option. Given 2 inches and 20 extra pounds, yes I could see it. But he has a tiny frame (think of all the people fretting over Rosen last year at 6'4" and 226 as too slight). USA Today Mock - ( New Window )
I don't think Murray has the frame to put on more weight and his weight distribution is different from wilson. Rosen (who I like) is a good example of a guy who on paper has the right size, but you look at him and he looks slight. RG3 is another. He may be the slightest 6'2 225 qb I've seen. Wilson came in at 204, but he was solid and looked like he had the frame to get bigger.
Last year the same naysayers went on and on sbout Rosen and how he would always be injured and I argued that frame has nothing to do with it and size and used Josh Allen as an example, who had a long injury history that no one cared about but was built like a "monster"
Forward a year and it was Josh Allen who missed games and not Rosen due to injury.
Or you can simply look at "Iron Man" Eli Manning who was considered thin compared to "Big Ben", who as this thread pointed out was oft injured. Or even Philip Rivers who has built his own iton man streak despite people predicting elbow or Arm issues due to his throwing motions
These things are unpredictable
Kyler Murray has Zero injury history despite playing two sports at college at a high level.
Why did allen get hurt vs. Rosen? Not because of unpredictability, b ut because Allen left the pocket purposely to run many more times than Rosen.
It again calls into question why you would think Murray being a "runner" is better than him being a "scrambler". Runners get hurt, even if they are big.
Murray will be facing defenses that will have players only sightly slower than him who will deliver massive hits.
If he wants to play football and he's being successful doing so he won't switch to baseball. If he can't cut it at football he might switch but then it won't matter.
He isn’t a runner he’s a scrambler who can run and he avoids hits better than any qb who’s ever done it. Who’s to say Murray has that intelligence or feel for the game. Wilson is a freak and the above poster who says Wilson is overhyped. What has he done without a defense? He took a dog shit team to the playoffs. Carried the offense without Baldwin for a nice chunk of the season. People predicted them to win 5-6 games
This. Wilson avoids injury because he has a fantastic feel for the game and knows when to get down or run out of bounds. He doesn't take unnecessary hits going for an extra yard or two.
The 10-20 lbs he'd have on Murray are irrelevant for his ability to stay healthy. There are plenty of similar QBs with 10-20 lbs on Wilson that are constantly injured or had their careers ruined because they didn't have the same ability to avoid the hits. Does Murray have that innate ability?
I don't see it. Kid is a very exciting player, but I would see him as as an effective third down "wildcat" type option. Given 2 inches and 20 extra pounds, yes I could see it. But he has a tiny frame (think of all the people fretting over Rosen last year at 6'4" and 226 as too slight). USA Today Mock - ( New Window )
It has nothing to do with size. It was Rosen's body. He seems brittle. Drew Brees is 6'0" 205lbs and has played 17 years in the league and only missed one start due to injury. Eli Manning is about the same size as Rosen and seems indestructible. You can be a 6'7" 260lbs QB and still be injury prone.
There is no way in hell the Giants are going to draft Murray. Â
They can't afford to miss on the sixth pick this year anymore than they could have last year. They are going with the sure thing, whoever that may be.
I could see them spending a 2nd rounder on him if by some miracle he were there but at 6, with this team in the state its in and the pressure to turn the franchise around quickly - no way.
That makes him less than half an inch smaller then Wilson. Wilson has been very effective in this league and qualifies as a franchise QB.
I think Murray is more talented than Wilson when he entered the League.
Height might be able to be justified away.
But his size is a concern....as far durability goes
Just look at Russell Wilson. He is built differently than Kyler Murray. He's much thicker and more built.
And yes, Murray can also add weight - but it's easier said than done and we don't necessarily know if 15-20+ lbs would make a difference in Murray's game either for the better or worse.
Murray is listed at 194 lbs and is 21 years old.
Neither were true. Darnold & Allen the bigger "built" guys were the ones hurt
Weight being a protecter vs injury is a theory. Murray has a cannon arm and is super fast, he doesnt need to add weight for skill purposes.
That makes him less than half an inch smaller then Wilson. Wilson has been very effective in this league and qualifies as a franchise QB.
I think Murray is more talented than Wilson when he entered the League.
With all due respect, it's the OU SID.
Height might be able to be justified away.
But his size is a concern....as far durability goes
That's a big concern if he's running from the pocket and gets nailed by an NFL-sized defender.
Favre, Young did pretty well.
Theyve missed games but have been incredibly successful
Any QB can get hurt. Pocket QBs get hurt. Aikman, Palmer, Montana all hurt alot. Brady, Marino, Testaverde all missed full seasons.
Phil Simms was always hurt
I just pointed out how people worried about Rosen and injuries. A traditional pocket passer.
And Murray isnt a "scrambler" who runs around trying to "buy time". He runs. There is a difference.
Not saying he's a sure thing, but dismissing him on his size is missing a huge part of the picture IMO.
Favre, Young did pretty well.
Theyve missed games but have been incredibly successful
Any QB can get hurt. Pocket QBs get hurt. Aikman, Palmer, Montana all hurt alot. Brady, Marino, Testaverde all missed full seasons.
Phil Simms was always hurt
I just pointed out how people worried about Rosen and injuries. A traditional pocket passer.
And Murray isnt a "scrambler" who runs around trying to "buy time". He runs. There is a difference.
Didn't say they didn't work out did I? What I am saying is that everybody is all about these mobile QBs but not being honest when it comes to them.
Obviously, Big Ben and Rodgers were worth their picks and are going to the HoF. What I am saying is they suffer unnecessary injuries and that kills seasons. Look at Big Ben going to the locker room this year and they missed the playoffs by one game. Look at the last 2 years of Rodgers with getting injured. Their seasons are fucked.
Wentz had a great year last year but he still has a lot left to prove. He has had two serious injuries the last 2 years. Philly's season was saved both years by Foles. That is not the norm.
If you can guarantee super bowls like PIT and GB got with their QBs then awesome but it is basically a 100% chance at least 1 season if not more will be ruined when your QB goes down. And the risk is way higher with these running QBs. This isn't to say a pocket passer will not get injured because they do but not at the same rate. Amd lets look at who is in the final 4, Brady, Brees, Goff, and Mahomes. Now, Goff and Mahomes can make plays outside the pocket but these are primarily guys who stay in the pocket until forced out rather than just move around to move around.
Despite what he almost certainly will tell NFL teams at the Combine, in good faith, about his love of football and his intention to make it his full-time career, the fact remains that he can change his mind and walk away at any time.
Tampa Bay took Bo Jackson with the first overall pick in 1986. He never played for them. He re-entered the draft the following year and wasn't selected until the seventh round, by the Raiders.
The chances of Dave Gettleman using the sixth overall pick on Kyler Murray are approaching zero.
And lets not act like we are in the position we are in because we are a backward thinking franchise. We are in this position because we missed on multiple picks. We didn't go with the safe picks. We went with stupid picks. We tried being forward thinking by going with McAdoo and his shitty ass WCO which wasn't a fit at all. Now everybody is all up Gettleman's ass because it wasn't fixed in one offseason. Give the guy a chance before we label him based off of Reese's tenure.
Not to mention he will have WAY more endorsement opportunities as an NFL quarterback than he would in MLB, even if he became one of the best players in baseball. The popularity between the sports is not comparable, virtually every sports fan in America knows every NFL QB, a comparably small subset has any knowledge of MLB players and even then we are only talking about the top few guys in the league. Baseball is a much less popular sport, it’s a regional sport really. I don’t think anyone outside of New York gives a shit about Aaron Judge or Jacob DeGrom, but everyone knows Darnold, Eli, Saquon, Beckham.
I don’t think baseball even has a true star player with a national profile at the moment. If you make it in the NFL it’s a much bigger deal.
They have every incentive to tell truth
If you didnt know it is Sports Information Department. Their entire purpose is Media Relations.
They actually came out and issued a statement with his exact height. They didnt have to do that. They coukd have just let people go off their media guide and if its wrong claim it came from elsewhere. They instead claimed responsibility.
They know the truth will be known at the Combine. They cant hide him being 5-8 or 5-7.
If they have lied they will destroy all of their credibility with their media contacts.
I have worked in a D1 Sports Information Dept before.
I bet Murray will measure exactly what they said just as Baker did.
But go ahead, use an internet photo to judge
To comp. Josh Allen got a fully guaranteed 4 yr 21 mil desl with a 13 mil signing bonus at the 7 pick
Im sure he cant wait to play for the Midland Rockhounds or the Stockton Ports.
To comp. Josh Allen got a fully guaranteed 4 yr 21 mil desl with a 13 mil signing bonus at the 7 pick
Im sure he cant wait to play for the Midland Rockhounds or the Stockton Ports.
It is just one of the questions. I have seen players get injured and try switching sports. It doesn't have to be an injury. It could be any adversity. It will always weigh on his mind whether he made the right decision or even if he succeeds at football whether or not he would have been successful at baseball. Also, there is a rumor he is trying to squeeze money out of Oakland or whoever drafted him. You cannot deny there is risk. And because of that he isn't worth the pick imo and you can bet your house that Gettleman would not take that risk at 6 either.
As long as we're splitting hairs, Wilson was actually 5-10 5/8 at combine.
That's why he gets rounded to 5-11 in the NFL.com database.
If he had been 5-10 3/8, would have been rounded to 5-10.
Doubt he would and even so, it’s not like he’s a pitcher.
Quote:
Even if he splits time, that's a lot of mileage on one arm.
Doubt he would and even so, it’s not like he’s a pitcher.
Not a problem if he plays RB or CB 16 games, then plays baseball...but playing QB, throwing 500+ passes for 16 games, and then playing maybe 90+ games of baseball? That's a lot of wear and tear.
Height might be able to be justified away.
But his size is a concern....as far durability goes
He weighed 204 at the combine
That makes him less than half an inch smaller then Wilson. Wilson has been very effective in this league and qualifies as a franchise QB.
I think Murray is more talented than Wilson when he entered the League.
So you just look at height. Forget the fact Wilson is built like a running back. He’s probably about 225. He’s easily 25lb heavier than Murray and probably more. Not saying Murray won’t make it but frame means more than height if we are talking longevity.
Sorry. Too much common sense for the now psychotic Murray fans. And as for Wilson how much have they won since their D had declined and Lynch left. Wilson is a very good player but people talk like he's Won as Much as Brady. Maybe he's the NFL version of Mugsy Bogues. If I'm not risking the # 6 on that. His skill set is insane. His physical size playing football is legitimately a counterweight to his skill.
He also Got stuffed by Bama when it mattered. The NFL is fillled w defenses much better than Bama. He's going to see more sophisticated schemes than what he saw in th Big 12. No way for me. But Finding rational thought on those sold is not happening
There is a difference. One keeps the QB healthy against 300+ pound DL's, LB's who are delivering blows with fierce impact and Safeties who still launch themselves at ball carriers.
One of the reasons Wilson is so effective is because he scrambles to throw. Being a running QB is not a positive in the NFL.
I don't see it. Kid is a very exciting player, but I would see him as as an effective third down "wildcat" type option. Given 2 inches and 20 extra pounds, yes I could see it. But he has a tiny frame (think of all the people fretting over Rosen last year at 6'4" and 226 as too slight).
USA Today Mock - ( New Window )
Forward a year and it was Josh Allen who missed games and not Rosen due to injury.
Or you can simply look at "Iron Man" Eli Manning who was considered thin compared to "Big Ben", who as this thread pointed out was oft injured. Or even Philip Rivers who has built his own iton man streak despite people predicting elbow or Arm issues due to his throwing motions
These things are unpredictable
Kyler Murray has Zero injury history despite playing two sports at college at a high level.
Why did allen get hurt vs. Rosen? Not because of unpredictability, b ut because Allen left the pocket purposely to run many more times than Rosen.
It again calls into question why you would think Murray being a "runner" is better than him being a "scrambler". Runners get hurt, even if they are big.
Murray will be facing defenses that will have players only sightly slower than him who will deliver massive hits.
This. Wilson avoids injury because he has a fantastic feel for the game and knows when to get down or run out of bounds. He doesn't take unnecessary hits going for an extra yard or two.
The 10-20 lbs he'd have on Murray are irrelevant for his ability to stay healthy. There are plenty of similar QBs with 10-20 lbs on Wilson that are constantly injured or had their careers ruined because they didn't have the same ability to avoid the hits. Does Murray have that innate ability?
I don't see it. Kid is a very exciting player, but I would see him as as an effective third down "wildcat" type option. Given 2 inches and 20 extra pounds, yes I could see it. But he has a tiny frame (think of all the people fretting over Rosen last year at 6'4" and 226 as too slight). USA Today Mock - ( New Window )
It has nothing to do with size. It was Rosen's body. He seems brittle. Drew Brees is 6'0" 205lbs and has played 17 years in the league and only missed one start due to injury. Eli Manning is about the same size as Rosen and seems indestructible. You can be a 6'7" 260lbs QB and still be injury prone.
I could see them spending a 2nd rounder on him if by some miracle he were there but at 6, with this team in the state its in and the pressure to turn the franchise around quickly - no way.