that Foles would be an upgrade, but he's a short term fix at a high cost. I would much rather the Giants find and groom a franchise QB from the 2019 or (better) the 2020 draft. Next season, I would like to see a veteran QB with a smaller cap hit brought-in to transition to the franchise QB. A guy like Jacoby Brissett or Nick Mullens as a 1-2 year fix.
makes a ton of sense if we were to part ways with Eli.
The reason being is that Shurmur has coached him before and he had his most statistically successful season under him.
If it happened, I wouldn't be upset. I think Foles' skillset is a better fit for the college type offenses that have crept their way into NFL over the past 3 years. He wasn't great in a traditional NFL offense under Fisher, but that team was a train wreck at the time personnel-wise.
Deep down though, I don't think Foles leaves Philly. I think he has come to a point in his career, that money isn't the here all say all, and he would much rather play for a team that he feels is a fit for him, rather than chase dollars.
I'm with this until the last paragraph.
If you're sticking with Shurmur for this year and presumably next - then he's the one to make the call on whether he thinks he can improve the team via Foles over Eli. Foles is younger (although not young), so an expensive but still reasonable contract isn't out of the question.
I don't agree that Foles will stay put. I doubt he ends up in a Giants uniform, but I do think that the opportunity for one last paycheck, which he will get a good one from someone, will override his desire to stick around in Philly.
so we are going to wind up paying more for Foles
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9:11 am : link : reply
than for Eli? That makes no sense. If you are going to get rid of Eli, it should be for someone with a future, on a rookie deal and with an upside.
There is no sense going with a journeyman moving on from Eli - especially at a higher cost.
You guys really seem to look at the SB win and a playoff win this year, but Foles is a complementary piece on a good team - and would be a poor piece on a bad team.
Wentz was rushed back from injury because Foles was struggling, something he has done consistently.
His career arc would follow that of Case Keenum - that's not what we should be striving for
makes a ton of sense if we were to part ways with Eli.
The reason being is that Shurmur has coached him before and he had his most statistically successful season under him.
If it happened, I wouldn't be upset. I think Foles' skillset is a better fit for the college type offenses that have crept their way into NFL over the past 3 years. He wasn't great in a traditional NFL offense under Fisher, but that team was a train wreck at the time personnel-wise.
Deep down though, I don't think Foles leaves Philly. I think he has come to a point in his career, that money isn't the here all say all, and he would much rather play for a team that he feels is a fit for him, rather than chase dollars.
I'm with this until the last paragraph.
If you're sticking with Shurmur for this year and presumably next - then he's the one to make the call on whether he thinks he can improve the team via Foles over Eli. Foles is younger (although not young), so an expensive but still reasonable contract isn't out of the question.
I don't agree that Foles will stay put. I doubt he ends up in a Giants uniform, but I do think that the opportunity for one last paycheck, which he will get a good one from someone, will override his desire to stick around in Philly.
I understand Jcn, I live on Philly and Foles has discussed multiple times how he came back to Philly because it was a good personel fit for him and he doesn’t want to chase money anymore. He’s also become really religious and was like a leader of a team prayer group or something like that. He just strikes me as different. We’ll see if greed takes over.
I'm not talking literally (so please, I haven't lost my mind) but HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, if I could, would I replace Eli with Foles, even up, and at roughly the same compensation level (give or take)? Yes. I respect Eli as much as any on this board, but do believe his best days are long behind. What finally brought this home was the last series in the Cowboys game....when we couldn't even get a completion in 4 tries....not even a dump over the middle to a back! With Foles, we could pick up 7 years in age and a QB who knows the game vs. a rookie draft choice who we would be complaining about as soon as he throws his first pick.
That said, I do agree that the article is speculative and probably meant to meet a deadline for the writer....but that's their job.
I found a recent article about the Colts' dilemma with Brisset interesting...would this be avenue to pursue, while adding a high level draft choice as a back up if Eli "calls it a day"? Brisset or a similar young back up to hold the fort until a real franchise QB is found? This would give us the financial flexibility to add pieces to the OL and Defense to build a real foundation. I know that this is only speculative on my part and Brisset or other similar QB's have their "warts" and are FAR from ideal (I'm not a scout and the first to admit I don't have the knowledge to evaluate). At least conceptually COULD this make more sense than trying to squeeze another year out of Eli, with an inexperienced draft choice spending the year holding a clip board on the sideline?
RE: I'm 34..There has been 1 game I haven't watched.. Â
Those are team records, and I don't think they tell all of the story, or even most of it. My evaluation of Eli and Foles is not based on looking at records and supporting cast at skill positions.
I've followed Foles for longer than most because he played at my alma mater. He is not as bad as many like to portray, but he has a very definite ceiling. Again, in the right situation he can thrive, but so can Eli and most other QBs.
And if we are being honest about the player comparisons above, if Odell gets many >>>> over Alshon Jeffrey (which I agree with) you need to double that number for Ertz over Engram. And likely add some for the Eagles defense over the Giant's defense, and the Eagles Oline over the Giants Oline. I don't believe it is anywhere near as lopsided as you portray it.
This times 1000. Rick also says "Oh, and he didn't have his best WR for two of those games...and his WR dropped a pass so he really should have such and such record"
Well, Odell missed 4 games this year and only started 2 games last year (played in 4). How does that factor into his "shitty" QB play? Isn't Alshon Jeffrey>>Sterling Shepard, if not more? What about the rest of the crew Eli actually played with when the entire WR corp was on gurneys last season? How about Shepard dropping passes on crucial drives? Eli gets no credit for that? How about the Giants defense blowing leads while the Eagles special teams tip a kick that should have sent them home?
Let's talk about Foles under Shurmur. He had a great and I mean GREAT season in 2013. But then he had 2014, still under Shurmur....13 TDs, 10 INTs in 8 games before breaking his collar bone.
St. Louis 2015 - 11 Games 7 TDs 10 INTs benched for Case Keenum not once, but twice.
KC 2016 - Barely played. Started one game when Smith had a concussion...187 yards and 1 TD.
We all know what happened last year and this year. You could actually make a strong case that he literally tried to throw the game away against Atlanta, but their secondary decided to punt easy INTs instead of catching them before he went and, to his credit, played lights out football against Minnesota and New England.
Point is, people around here complain about how much Eli Manning costs, and they're right. But to pay Foles is insanity. You're going to eat Eli's $6m plus pay Foles upwards of $20m/year (I think probably closer to $25m based on the contracts guys got last year). So for 2019 you're talking about minimum 26m, probably closer to 30m for QB play that will not be significantly better. The rest of the years on the contract will likely cost in the same neighborhood as what Manning costs us this year again, for QB play that is not going to be much better.
RE: RE: I just don't see Foles as a significant upgrade Â
from current version Eli. He can be an efficient QB in the right system with the right weapons, but so can Eli. But Eli is under contract for one more year. Brining in Foles means committing to him for longer than that.
I think the Giants should plan to have Eli under center to start the 2019 season. If there is a guy they like in the draft, grab him. If not, sign a vet rental for 2020 and go back to the draft. Don't over commit to a marginal talent out of desperation.
Can Eli? He's had an All-Pro WR, All-Pro RB, 2nd round pick at WR. 1st round pick at TE and he's looked terrible for 2 years.
The Eagles have worse talent on offense and Foles has looked much better then Eli.
Odell >>>> Alshon
Saquon >>>> All Eagles RBs
Shep > Agholor
Engram < Ertz
Latimer > Jordan Matthews
The Eagles with Wentz were 5-6. With Foles that same team was 5-2 (Including playoffs) and Foles didn't have his best WR for two of those games. If it wasn't for the Alshon drop then Foles is most likely 6-1.
If you bring it back to last season Foles is 10-3 as a starter.
You gotta be kidding me. You don't think Eli would function a little better with Jason Peters, Lane Johnson, Kelce and Brandon Brooks on the OL? Unreal from a Giants fan.
Another opponent's (fading) star who might be available... Â
Sean Lee - scheduled to make $7MM this year for Dallas. Will they keep him? Would you take him on a reasonable deal if he comes available? What kind of numbers would you be willing to pay? FWIW, he's 32 right now.
Point is, people around here complain about how much Eli Manning costs, and they're right. But to pay Foles is insanity. You're going to eat Eli's $6m plus pay Foles upwards of $20m/year (I think probably closer to $25m based on the contracts guys got last year). So for 2019 you're talking about minimum 26m, probably closer to 30m for QB play that will not be significantly better. The rest of the years on the contract will likely cost in the same neighborhood as what Manning costs us this year again, for QB play that is not going to be much better.
Yet, you'll find posters who will say without a doubt that Foles will play much better.
His past career doesn't indicate that. Foles is a guy who can be a good manager on a team that is talented, but he's not a guy that is going to elevate a team - look at Keenum with the Broncs.
Id say it would we a good idea. However we are to many pieces away from contending against the better teams right now. Like others have said getting rookie QB will allow to build the team due to the the low cap hit.
I don't think a lot realize this, but Foles has never started 16 games. Someone posted the stats, but he has not been very good outside of Philly. And outside of the 2013 season, not very consistent. Yes, he got hot against Minnesota and New England last year, but outside of that I don't see it with him.
Add to that, this year he was not good to start the season, leading the Eagles to rush back Wentz. His playoffs were pedestrian at best, 466 yds 3td 4ints. He's going to cost a lot of money off of two games last year, so I am not sure how that helps the Giants qb situation.
RE: RE: I'm 34..There has been 1 game I haven't watched.. Â
(or at least listened to on radio when I was in college) in as long as I can remember..
That 1 game was started by Geno Smith.
If Nick Foles is NYG starting QB ever... I will not watch again until he isn't anymore.
You can't take icons/heroes from rivals. Just can't do it.
There is literally a statue of this man in Philadelphia.
Will you also stop visiting BBI?
Likely.
I'd love to look at the data.. pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find a Giant fan living in the Philly area like myself who would want Foles. He is a cult hero down here.
RE: Another opponent's (fading) star who might be available... Â
Sean Lee - scheduled to make $7MM this year for Dallas. Will they keep him? Would you take him on a reasonable deal if he comes available? What kind of numbers would you be willing to pay? FWIW, he's 32 right now.
I thought I read somewhere that Lee was leaning toward retirement due to all the injuries, but not sure if that rumor was corroborated.
would be unacceptable to me as a fan. I don't care if he's an upgrade to Eli. It's more than laundry to me, and I hope it is to the Giants too.
I agree. I can get on board with almost any other strategy but I'd hate this. I think Foles is an OK QB but I think he just happens to fit well in Philly and will likely tank wherever he ends up if the circumstances aren't perfect.
if thats the case, just pick a QB in the draft and keep Eli another Â
is if they draft a QB early and Foles is willing to sign a 1 year deal as a stopgap. Committing to him long term would be a huge mistake. This is the definition of QB hell.
Add to that, this year he was not good to start the season, leading the Eagles to rush back Wentz. His playoffs were pedestrian at best, 466 yds 3td 4ints. He's going to cost a lot of money off of two games last year, so I am not sure how that helps the Giants qb situation.
Going off the run last year (when the Eagles were the favorite to win it all when Wentz was QB) will inflate expectations and evaluations. They beat a Bears team that missed a last second FG in a game where Foles led a winning score but was unimpressive outside of that and people talk about all he does is win games. Actually, somebody started a thread saying just that.
Investing in players because of a handful of games is usually fools gold. Keenum is a perfect example of that. Foles stint in LA was a perfect example of that. Trent Green was a good example. Matt Cassel was a good example. You rarely see a guy who has a limited run go to a team and become anything more than mediocre. I struggle to find any examples.
Fitzpatrick and Cousins were established starters who still are mediocre. Garrappolo is an INC. Matt Flynn tanked.
Point is, people around here complain about how much Eli Manning costs, and they're right. But to pay Foles is insanity. You're going to eat Eli's $6m plus pay Foles upwards of $20m/year (I think probably closer to $25m based on the contracts guys got last year). So for 2019 you're talking about minimum 26m, probably closer to 30m for QB play that will not be significantly better. The rest of the years on the contract will likely cost in the same neighborhood as what Manning costs us this year again, for QB play that is not going to be much better.
Yet, you'll find posters who will say without a doubt that Foles will play much better.
His past career doesn't indicate that. Foles is a guy who can be a good manager on a team that is talented, but he's not a guy that is going to elevate a team - look at Keenum with the Broncs.
To get that AND pay more that Eli is madness.
I don't know what these guys are seeing, Fats. It's like everyone wants to just talk about 2013 and the two playoff games last year and ignore everything else. He CAN play a great game or two here and there, but he doesn't do it consistently and he's going to be 30 so it's not like he's going to suddenly put it all together and become consistently awesome.
We've already got that guy on the roster. Why spend more for what might be a marginal at best upgrade while hindering building the rest of the team?
is if they decide to release Eli for cap reasons, and can get Foles on a cheap short term contract to keep the seat warm for the future QB. He is not the long term answer for this team at QB, and there is no way in hell they should tie up a lot of cap space on him.
And this is coming from somebody firmly in the move on from Eli camp. Going big money FA at QB is the least attractive of our shitty options. With shitty options I'd rather they try to find the next Foles than buy this one at the height of his value.
RE: Another opponent's (fading) star who might be available... Â
Sean Lee - scheduled to make $7MM this year for Dallas. Will they keep him? Would you take him on a reasonable deal if he comes available? What kind of numbers would you be willing to pay? FWIW, he's 32 right now.
Hell they should have went after Anthony Hitchens
Sean Lee is one injury away from retirement ..
Get younger faster stronger .
It would be one thing if Eli said I am done or blew his
knee out .. I don't want to hitch my wagon to a stop gap
This isn't the Eagles all pro line thats been playing together . Replace Eli with a Rookie that is worth taking
I am just not sold on Haskins but 2020 will be a QB jubilee
I don't see Foles as an upgrade over Eli for several reasons including less durability and he hasn't done much of anything outside of Phily, and he won't save any really meaningful money either.
It would be a fool's move to replace Eli with him.
Foles would be the answer, but he is by far the best QB FA out there. He definitely is an upgrade to Eli on the field. If they had to go FA he would be the guy to get, but I sure would not want to commit $20 mill per to him.
He’s definitely an upgrade over Eli? Says who ? Can you prove this?
He hung a whopping 14 or so points on the saints. Ok.... he hung what, 21 on the bears? Is he really that good?? He’s played well within a talented system to be sure. He might even be well endowed based on the mythos but is nick foles going to come in here and elevate this offense over Eli in 2019? Really think this through because you better be right.
I do think he is a substantial upgrade over Manning but the 6.2 dead plus his contract convinces me this is the wrong move. I would rather trade for Brisset(can't give a lot) or/and draft Haskins/Jones. I have seen enough of declining Eli, it will get worse but would say no to Foles. Fat guy made good points.
But the Giants are not close, and the next QB who's not a young, talented player, is going to play the part of temporary pinata as the Giants re-stock.
My guess is the Giants bring on yet another 3/5 of a new offensive line next year, there are continuity struggles, and the lack of depth will hurt again if an injury comes up.
It's a marathon not a sprint getting back into contention. No need to drop 20M+ for the pleasure of getting your ass kicked on the way.
The biggest reason to move on from Eli is the money Â
To move on from him only to replace him with an equally expensive guy who, if he's better, is only marginally so would make little sense.
When we move from Eli I'd like to see that money reinvested elsewhere on the roster. Disperse it out so we have better depth (particularly along the OL and DL) and better special teams.
RE: The biggest reason to move on from Eli is the money Â
To move on from him only to replace him with an equally expensive guy who, if he's better, is only marginally so would make little sense.
When we move from Eli I'd like to see that money reinvested elsewhere on the roster. Disperse it out so we have better depth (particularly along the OL and DL) and better special teams.
This. Maybe a Fitzpatrick-type stopgap is in order, but we need to hit on a QB and take advantage of his rookie contract.
I think we should release Eli. Then at that point we have 3 options that make the most sense for 2019:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
I think we should release Eli. Then at that point we have 3 options that make the most sense for 2019:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
I would love to cut Eli and acquire any of those 3 QBs. If we could draft Jones by jumping back into the first, I would do that too. 6 is too early for Jones for me. Haskins at 6 is possible, want to see how the vetting goes through the combine before I would be OK with him at 6.
1) Wade Boggs never won a World Series with the Red Sox, much less a World Series MVP
2) Wade Boggs replaced Charlie Hayes, not a future HOFer who was one of the most beloved, iconic players in Yankees history.
RE: RE: If Wade Boggs could play for the Yankees, Â
1) Wade Boggs never won a World Series with the Red Sox, much less a World Series MVP
2) Wade Boggs replaced Charlie Hayes, not a future HOFer who was one of the most beloved, iconic players in Yankees history.
A closer analogy would be if Johnny Damon was a SS and the Yankees cut Derek Jeter and replaced him with Damon.
I think we should release Eli. Then at that point we have 3 options that make the most sense for 2019:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
My first reaction was, way too many options with Lauletta. However, it may not be a bad thing. I have no idea how he is going to turn out, but my guess is his first year playing will be a disaster which could lead to a top pick in 2020 for a QB or something else.
I think we should release Eli. Then at that point we have 3 options that make the most sense for 2019:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
My first reaction was, way too many options with Lauletta. However, it may not be a bad thing. I have no idea how he is going to turn out, but my guess is his first year playing will be a disaster which could lead to a top pick in 2020 for a QB or something else.
Yes, we probably only win 3-5 games with Lauletta but at least we are not shelling out over 20 million a year for that shit AND Lauletta MIGHT get better given practice and actual game experience greater than 5 passes.
Least TWICE the team around him that we do and that we would have to pay MORE to watch him do what he did with the fucking Rams?
Yes....we have great players in Barkley and Beckham. But do you fucking dolts realize how good his front 7 had been and how much better his line in front of him is? And to top all 5hat, he managed what? 5-7 good games last year and this?
Give me a fucking break and put down the pipe. Its crack and not good for you.
I'm not talking literally (so please, I haven't lost my mind) but HYPOTHETICALLY speaking, if I could, would I replace Eli with Foles, even up, and at roughly the same compensation level (give or take)? Yes. I respect Eli as much as any on this board, but do believe his best days are long behind. What finally brought this home was the last series in the Cowboys game....when we couldn't even get a completion in 4 tries....not even a dump over the middle to a back! With Foles, we could pick up 7 years in age and a QB who knows the game vs. a rookie draft choice who we would be complaining about as soon as he throws his first pick.
That said, I do agree that the article is speculative and probably meant to meet a deadline for the writer....but that's their job.
I found a recent article about the Colts' dilemma with Brisset interesting...would this be avenue to pursue, while adding a high level draft choice as a back up if Eli "calls it a day"? Brisset or a similar young back up to hold the fort until a real franchise QB is found? This would give us the financial flexibility to add pieces to the OL and Defense to build a real foundation. I know that this is only speculative on my part and Brisset or other similar QB's have their "warts" and are FAR from ideal (I'm not a scout and the first to admit I don't have the knowledge to evaluate). At least conceptually COULD this make more sense than trying to squeeze another year out of Eli, with an inexperienced draft choice spending the year holding a clip board on the sideline?
The reason being is that Shurmur has coached him before and he had his most statistically successful season under him.
If it happened, I wouldn't be upset. I think Foles' skillset is a better fit for the college type offenses that have crept their way into NFL over the past 3 years. He wasn't great in a traditional NFL offense under Fisher, but that team was a train wreck at the time personnel-wise.
Deep down though, I don't think Foles leaves Philly. I think he has come to a point in his career, that money isn't the here all say all, and he would much rather play for a team that he feels is a fit for him, rather than chase dollars.
I'm with this until the last paragraph.
If you're sticking with Shurmur for this year and presumably next - then he's the one to make the call on whether he thinks he can improve the team via Foles over Eli. Foles is younger (although not young), so an expensive but still reasonable contract isn't out of the question.
I don't agree that Foles will stay put. I doubt he ends up in a Giants uniform, but I do think that the opportunity for one last paycheck, which he will get a good one from someone, will override his desire to stick around in Philly.
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 9:11 am : link : reply
than for Eli? That makes no sense. If you are going to get rid of Eli, it should be for someone with a future, on a rookie deal and with an upside.
There is no sense going with a journeyman moving on from Eli - especially at a higher cost.
You guys really seem to look at the SB win and a playoff win this year, but Foles is a complementary piece on a good team - and would be a poor piece on a bad team.
Wentz was rushed back from injury because Foles was struggling, something he has done consistently.
His career arc would follow that of Case Keenum - that's not what we should be striving for
Quote:
makes a ton of sense if we were to part ways with Eli.
The reason being is that Shurmur has coached him before and he had his most statistically successful season under him.
If it happened, I wouldn't be upset. I think Foles' skillset is a better fit for the college type offenses that have crept their way into NFL over the past 3 years. He wasn't great in a traditional NFL offense under Fisher, but that team was a train wreck at the time personnel-wise.
Deep down though, I don't think Foles leaves Philly. I think he has come to a point in his career, that money isn't the here all say all, and he would much rather play for a team that he feels is a fit for him, rather than chase dollars.
I'm with this until the last paragraph.
If you're sticking with Shurmur for this year and presumably next - then he's the one to make the call on whether he thinks he can improve the team via Foles over Eli. Foles is younger (although not young), so an expensive but still reasonable contract isn't out of the question.
I don't agree that Foles will stay put. I doubt he ends up in a Giants uniform, but I do think that the opportunity for one last paycheck, which he will get a good one from someone, will override his desire to stick around in Philly.
I understand Jcn, I live on Philly and Foles has discussed multiple times how he came back to Philly because it was a good personel fit for him and he doesn’t want to chase money anymore. He’s also become really religious and was like a leader of a team prayer group or something like that. He just strikes me as different. We’ll see if greed takes over.
I said I don't give a f#ck if he's an upgrade. It's more than laundry. And I happen to think he's a poor QB that looks OK in the PHI system.
That said, I do agree that the article is speculative and probably meant to meet a deadline for the writer....but that's their job.
I found a recent article about the Colts' dilemma with Brisset interesting...would this be avenue to pursue, while adding a high level draft choice as a back up if Eli "calls it a day"? Brisset or a similar young back up to hold the fort until a real franchise QB is found? This would give us the financial flexibility to add pieces to the OL and Defense to build a real foundation. I know that this is only speculative on my part and Brisset or other similar QB's have their "warts" and are FAR from ideal (I'm not a scout and the first to admit I don't have the knowledge to evaluate). At least conceptually COULD this make more sense than trying to squeeze another year out of Eli, with an inexperienced draft choice spending the year holding a clip board on the sideline?
That 1 game was started by Geno Smith.
If Nick Foles is NYG starting QB ever... I will not watch again until he isn't anymore.
You can't take icons/heroes from rivals. Just can't do it.
There is literally a statue of this man in Philadelphia.
Will you also stop visiting BBI?
I've followed Foles for longer than most because he played at my alma mater. He is not as bad as many like to portray, but he has a very definite ceiling. Again, in the right situation he can thrive, but so can Eli and most other QBs.
And if we are being honest about the player comparisons above, if Odell gets many >>>> over Alshon Jeffrey (which I agree with) you need to double that number for Ertz over Engram. And likely add some for the Eagles defense over the Giant's defense, and the Eagles Oline over the Giants Oline. I don't believe it is anywhere near as lopsided as you portray it.
This times 1000. Rick also says "Oh, and he didn't have his best WR for two of those games...and his WR dropped a pass so he really should have such and such record"
Well, Odell missed 4 games this year and only started 2 games last year (played in 4). How does that factor into his "shitty" QB play? Isn't Alshon Jeffrey>>Sterling Shepard, if not more? What about the rest of the crew Eli actually played with when the entire WR corp was on gurneys last season? How about Shepard dropping passes on crucial drives? Eli gets no credit for that? How about the Giants defense blowing leads while the Eagles special teams tip a kick that should have sent them home?
Let's talk about Foles under Shurmur. He had a great and I mean GREAT season in 2013. But then he had 2014, still under Shurmur....13 TDs, 10 INTs in 8 games before breaking his collar bone.
St. Louis 2015 - 11 Games 7 TDs 10 INTs benched for Case Keenum not once, but twice.
KC 2016 - Barely played. Started one game when Smith had a concussion...187 yards and 1 TD.
We all know what happened last year and this year. You could actually make a strong case that he literally tried to throw the game away against Atlanta, but their secondary decided to punt easy INTs instead of catching them before he went and, to his credit, played lights out football against Minnesota and New England.
Point is, people around here complain about how much Eli Manning costs, and they're right. But to pay Foles is insanity. You're going to eat Eli's $6m plus pay Foles upwards of $20m/year (I think probably closer to $25m based on the contracts guys got last year). So for 2019 you're talking about minimum 26m, probably closer to 30m for QB play that will not be significantly better. The rest of the years on the contract will likely cost in the same neighborhood as what Manning costs us this year again, for QB play that is not going to be much better.
Quote:
from current version Eli. He can be an efficient QB in the right system with the right weapons, but so can Eli. But Eli is under contract for one more year. Brining in Foles means committing to him for longer than that.
I think the Giants should plan to have Eli under center to start the 2019 season. If there is a guy they like in the draft, grab him. If not, sign a vet rental for 2020 and go back to the draft. Don't over commit to a marginal talent out of desperation.
Can Eli? He's had an All-Pro WR, All-Pro RB, 2nd round pick at WR. 1st round pick at TE and he's looked terrible for 2 years.
The Eagles have worse talent on offense and Foles has looked much better then Eli.
Odell >>>> Alshon
Saquon >>>> All Eagles RBs
Shep > Agholor
Engram < Ertz
Latimer > Jordan Matthews
The Eagles with Wentz were 5-6. With Foles that same team was 5-2 (Including playoffs) and Foles didn't have his best WR for two of those games. If it wasn't for the Alshon drop then Foles is most likely 6-1.
If you bring it back to last season Foles is 10-3 as a starter.
You gotta be kidding me. You don't think Eli would function a little better with Jason Peters, Lane Johnson, Kelce and Brandon Brooks on the OL? Unreal from a Giants fan.
Yet, you'll find posters who will say without a doubt that Foles will play much better.
His past career doesn't indicate that. Foles is a guy who can be a good manager on a team that is talented, but he's not a guy that is going to elevate a team - look at Keenum with the Broncs.
To get that AND pay more that Eli is madness.
Add to that, this year he was not good to start the season, leading the Eagles to rush back Wentz. His playoffs were pedestrian at best, 466 yds 3td 4ints. He's going to cost a lot of money off of two games last year, so I am not sure how that helps the Giants qb situation.
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(or at least listened to on radio when I was in college) in as long as I can remember..
That 1 game was started by Geno Smith.
If Nick Foles is NYG starting QB ever... I will not watch again until he isn't anymore.
You can't take icons/heroes from rivals. Just can't do it.
There is literally a statue of this man in Philadelphia.
Will you also stop visiting BBI?
Likely.
I'd love to look at the data.. pretty sure you'd be hard pressed to find a Giant fan living in the Philly area like myself who would want Foles. He is a cult hero down here.
I thought I read somewhere that Lee was leaning toward retirement due to all the injuries, but not sure if that rumor was corroborated.
I agree. I can get on board with almost any other strategy but I'd hate this. I think Foles is an OK QB but I think he just happens to fit well in Philly and will likely tank wherever he ends up if the circumstances aren't perfect.
Foles had a decent line. We dont have a decent line.
Going off the run last year (when the Eagles were the favorite to win it all when Wentz was QB) will inflate expectations and evaluations. They beat a Bears team that missed a last second FG in a game where Foles led a winning score but was unimpressive outside of that and people talk about all he does is win games. Actually, somebody started a thread saying just that.
Investing in players because of a handful of games is usually fools gold. Keenum is a perfect example of that. Foles stint in LA was a perfect example of that. Trent Green was a good example. Matt Cassel was a good example. You rarely see a guy who has a limited run go to a team and become anything more than mediocre. I struggle to find any examples.
Fitzpatrick and Cousins were established starters who still are mediocre. Garrappolo is an INC. Matt Flynn tanked.
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Point is, people around here complain about how much Eli Manning costs, and they're right. But to pay Foles is insanity. You're going to eat Eli's $6m plus pay Foles upwards of $20m/year (I think probably closer to $25m based on the contracts guys got last year). So for 2019 you're talking about minimum 26m, probably closer to 30m for QB play that will not be significantly better. The rest of the years on the contract will likely cost in the same neighborhood as what Manning costs us this year again, for QB play that is not going to be much better.
Yet, you'll find posters who will say without a doubt that Foles will play much better.
His past career doesn't indicate that. Foles is a guy who can be a good manager on a team that is talented, but he's not a guy that is going to elevate a team - look at Keenum with the Broncs.
To get that AND pay more that Eli is madness.
I don't know what these guys are seeing, Fats. It's like everyone wants to just talk about 2013 and the two playoff games last year and ignore everything else. He CAN play a great game or two here and there, but he doesn't do it consistently and he's going to be 30 so it's not like he's going to suddenly put it all together and become consistently awesome.
We've already got that guy on the roster. Why spend more for what might be a marginal at best upgrade while hindering building the rest of the team?
Hell they should have went after Anthony Hitchens
Sean Lee is one injury away from retirement ..
Get younger faster stronger .
It would be one thing if Eli said I am done or blew his
knee out .. I don't want to hitch my wagon to a stop gap
This isn't the Eagles all pro line thats been playing together . Replace Eli with a Rookie that is worth taking
I am just not sold on Haskins but 2020 will be a QB jubilee
It would be a fool's move to replace Eli with him.
He’s definitely an upgrade over Eli? Says who ? Can you prove this?
He hung a whopping 14 or so points on the saints. Ok.... he hung what, 21 on the bears? Is he really that good?? He’s played well within a talented system to be sure. He might even be well endowed based on the mythos but is nick foles going to come in here and elevate this offense over Eli in 2019? Really think this through because you better be right.
But the Giants are not close, and the next QB who's not a young, talented player, is going to play the part of temporary pinata as the Giants re-stock.
My guess is the Giants bring on yet another 3/5 of a new offensive line next year, there are continuity struggles, and the lack of depth will hurt again if an injury comes up.
It's a marathon not a sprint getting back into contention. No need to drop 20M+ for the pleasure of getting your ass kicked on the way.
When we move from Eli I'd like to see that money reinvested elsewhere on the roster. Disperse it out so we have better depth (particularly along the OL and DL) and better special teams.
When we move from Eli I'd like to see that money reinvested elsewhere on the roster. Disperse it out so we have better depth (particularly along the OL and DL) and better special teams.
This. Maybe a Fitzpatrick-type stopgap is in order, but we need to hit on a QB and take advantage of his rookie contract.
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
1) Wade Boggs never won a World Series with the Red Sox, much less a World Series MVP
2) Wade Boggs replaced Charlie Hayes, not a future HOFer who was one of the most beloved, iconic players in Yankees history.
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Nick Foles can play for the Giants.
1) Wade Boggs never won a World Series with the Red Sox, much less a World Series MVP
2) Wade Boggs replaced Charlie Hayes, not a future HOFer who was one of the most beloved, iconic players in Yankees history.
A closer analogy would be if Johnny Damon was a SS and the Yankees cut Derek Jeter and replaced him with Damon.
blueblood : 9:33 am : link : reply
he wont be much cheaper than Eli. Maybe by a few million.
You think Foles is going to sign for 17M or less?
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
My first reaction was, way too many options with Lauletta. However, it may not be a bad thing. I have no idea how he is going to turn out, but my guess is his first year playing will be a disaster which could lead to a top pick in 2020 for a QB or something else.
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I think we should release Eli. Then at that point we have 3 options that make the most sense for 2019:
1. Enter the season with Lauletta as the starter
2. Draft a QB and let him fight Lauletta for the starting job
3. Look at other teams' depth charts and make a trade. Options off the top of my head are Taysom Hill, Kyle Sloter, Jacoby Brissett.
Each of those options has pluses and minuses, but the key for each scenario is it keeps the QB cap hit low.
My first reaction was, way too many options with Lauletta. However, it may not be a bad thing. I have no idea how he is going to turn out, but my guess is his first year playing will be a disaster which could lead to a top pick in 2020 for a QB or something else.
Ideally you'd want to move on to a cost-controlled option post Eli barring a "can't miss" kind of FA. I don't think Foles is a can't miss player.
Yes...his CEILING is Superbowl MVP
Yes....we have great players in Barkley and Beckham. But do you fucking dolts realize how good his front 7 had been and how much better his line in front of him is? And to top all 5hat, he managed what? 5-7 good games last year and this?
Give me a fucking break and put down the pipe. Its crack and not good for you.
That said, I do agree that the article is speculative and probably meant to meet a deadline for the writer....but that's their job.
I found a recent article about the Colts' dilemma with Brisset interesting...would this be avenue to pursue, while adding a high level draft choice as a back up if Eli "calls it a day"? Brisset or a similar young back up to hold the fort until a real franchise QB is found? This would give us the financial flexibility to add pieces to the OL and Defense to build a real foundation. I know that this is only speculative on my part and Brisset or other similar QB's have their "warts" and are FAR from ideal (I'm not a scout and the first to admit I don't have the knowledge to evaluate). At least conceptually COULD this make more sense than trying to squeeze another year out of Eli, with an inexperienced draft choice spending the year holding a clip board on the sideline?
good post